Let's make a setting!

[Drowlord]

Certainly could exist as a myth, but I'm reluctant to nail down what happened to Atharanic precisely- he works better as a myth-figure whose ultimate whereabouts remain unconfirmed.

True. Thanks, I'm sort of a newcomer here.

[Gallus]

As a reply to all the people worrying about the high LAs inherent in D&D style therianthropes, I was thinking of it being a more subtle change, at least for those who haven't spent as much time practicing controlling and working with their animal form.

For lower levels something like the shifters or hengeyokai, and then more advanced forms could be unlocked through either feats, rituals, prestige classes, or something else.

Also I really like how the six moon-gods are forming, any chance of some kind of setting-wide astrological/ zodiac system based on in what position the moons were when a person was born?

[Elfin]

I agree with Tyger – it's better to keep Athanaric and Shax-Li as mysterious and mythic.

Speaking of Shax-Li, I know the ghul were originally conceived as humans, but that can't work very well now – what if they were made to be bodak-like creatures who cover themselves with heavy cloth from head to toe?

[Snowfire]

Also I really like how the six moon-gods are forming, any chance of some kind of setting-wide astrological/ zodiac system based on in what position the moons were when a person was born?

Way ahead of you

[Deploy]

The most important thing of any setting is the sort of feeling it brings. What's being written now is coming across to me as this: the humans are dead and gone and with them goes the greatest accomplishments, the remaining races struggle to survive in a dangerous and magical world that's getting more hostile all the time, the gods are uncaring and alien, more concerned with their petty squabble then who worships them. All in all it comes across as a post-post-apocalyptic world reverting back to a primal state.

I think this is awesome and makes it a very interesting and unique setting, but I want to make sure this is how everybody sees our setting.

What feeling do you see in it?

Also, the first thing we decided about this setting was that it was filled with ravines and valleys. I just realized that thishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silbo_gomero would be perfect for it.

It's a language of whistles used in south america for an environment specifically like this one. Rather than having our new orcs (karuka are they?) squawking and clacking lets have them whistle like songbirds. They'd still speak common but this would give a delicious bit of flavor to them.

We've stated they're nomads, but what kind of nomads. Are they like Bedouins, Native Americans, Mongols, all of the above, something completely different? Do they lead giant herds of buffalo across the desert? Do they just follow Owlbear tracks and eat the leftovers from its last meal? Finding a reason for why they're nomads is essential to determining how thy think and thus their culture.

The gnolls/varags will be a race of slavers, but lets not make them automatically evil. Perhaps they're like the Tuareg in Africa, they enslave whoever they come across but these people can eventually become accepted members of their society. Because of this though all slavers are called gnolls, they're actually extremely ethnically diverse and see no real qualms with slavery. They're just providing an opportunity for assimilation. Its still far from making them automatically good, but it makes them less "always chaotic evil". It also means that you can't generalize "hyena head equals slaver" it could just as likely be someone of another race who self-identifies as "gnoll"

just my two cents

[Sodalite]

I am horribly unfamiliar with the many real-world cultures, especially nomadic ones, but I personally imagine the karuka would travel in a few, large moving settlements, each of which has a multitude of small, satellite groups which move more quickly, and in a roughly circular path around the larger settlements.

[Pokonic]

Speaking of Shax-Li, I know the ghul were originally conceived as humans, but that can't work very well now – what if they were made to be bodak-like creatures who cover themselves with heavy cloth from head to toe?

Why not? They are the remains of humans who never could leave the world: a chilling reminder of the world before this one.

The gnolls/varags will be a race of slavers, but lets not make them automatically evil. Perhaps they're like the Tuareg in Africa, they enslave whoever they come across but these people can eventually become accepted members of their society. Because of this though all slavers are called gnolls, they're actually extremely ethnically diverse and see no real qualms with slavery. They're just providing an opportunity for assimilation. Its still far from making them automatically good, but it makes them less "always chaotic evil". It also means that you can't generalize "hyena head equals slaver" it could just as likely be someone of another race who self-identifies as "gnoll"

I support this greatly. The fact you can strike fear into your pc's hearts when they hear of strange "gnoll death squads" and are later assulted by a savage gnomish group gone rouge.

[Deploy]

I am horribly unfamiliar with the many real-world cultures, especially nomadic ones, but I personally imagine the karuka would travel in a few, large moving settlements, each of which has a multitude of small, satellite groups which move more quickly, and in a roughly circular path around the larger settlements.

This reminds me of native americans that would follow the herds of buffalo across the planes. I think it would be very interesting to have them follow prey across the desert. Especially if that animal is an actual buffalo, an animal that's never really seen in most settings. Imagine a Karuka warrior with owl feathers and bear claws strewn around his neck sitting atop an armored battle bison leering down at you while whistling across the valley to his fellows. This image screams awesome to me (particularly if you realize just how large a buffalo actually is), but it comes across as a little to native american. To help make a unique culture maybe we should also blend elements of other nomadic cultures along with this one.

Oh and one piece of native american culture we have to give them is religious use of cannabis. That yearly gathering of Karuka to trade and play games becomes a whole lot more interesting when the main thing being traded is drugs.

[Pokonic]

This reminds me of native americans that would follow the herds of buffalo across the planes. I think it would be very interesting to have them follow prey across the desert. Especially if that animal is an actual buffalo, an animal that's never really seen in most settings. Imagine a Karuka warrior with owl feathers and bear claws strewn around his neck sitting atop an armored battle bison leering down at you while whistling across the valley to his fellows. This image screams awesome to me (particularly if you realize just how large a buffalo actually is), but it comes across as a little to native american. To help make a unique culture maybe we should also blend elements of other nomadic cultures along with this one.

Oh and one piece of native american culture we have to give them is religious use of cannabis. That yearly gathering of Karuka to trade and play games becomes a whole lot more interesting when the main thing being traded is drugs.

The drugs effect: makes you feel powerful and/or like your flying. Also, it only effects creatures of avian decent.

Also, for what they would be using as beasts of burden: Demigryphons. Wingless, vegatarien griffons (with varying breeds with a array of exact head shape), belived to be kin to the Owlbears. The biggest ones would be the size of, well, a normal owlbear.

[Deploy]

The drugs effect: makes you feel powerful and/or like your flying. Also, it only effects creatures of avian decent.

Also, for what they would be using as beasts of burden: Demigryphons. Wingless, vegatarien griffons (with varying breeds with a array of exact head shape), belived to be kin to the Owlbears. The biggest ones would be the size of, well, a normal owlbear.

I like it, let's give them three totem animals that represent different dualities.
Owlbears are their chief patron representing a unity of ferocity and wisdom. I'm sure we can think of some mythical representation for the two parts of a demigryphon (although I'm not entirely sire what those two would be, buffalo in back/ falcon in front?) and come up with a third cross-animal to be their other totem I'm thinking sparrowwolf. Due to this depending on which moon is prevalent at the time of your birth you are assigned a totem animal (bear, owl, buffalo, falcon, sparrow, wolf) specifically important to you.

I like what we're doing with the Karuka and think we should do something similar with the other races.

[Snowfire]

The most important thing of any setting is the sort of feeling it brings. What's being written now is coming across to me as this: the humans are dead and gone and with them goes the greatest accomplishments, the remaining races struggle to survive in a dangerous and magical world that's getting more hostile all the time, the gods are uncaring and alien, more concerned with their petty squabble then who worships them. All in all it comes across as a post-post-apocalyptic world reverting back to a primal state.

I think this is awesome and makes it a very interesting and unique setting, but I want to make sure this is how everybody sees our setting.

What feeling do you see in it?

I would disagree with the alien and uncaring nature of the gods, at least in the case of most of the Moon Gods. At least half of them have well known manifestations that are generally seen at least a few times a year. Elethkeria alone is seen at least four times a year, during each of the Season festivals when her aspect changes.

I can definitely agree that the gods of the world itself have become distant - or flat out didn't care to begin with - but I see the Gods of the Sky as the for the most part 'older' of the deities. And they care deeply about their followers (well, at least most of them do) and the world in general. They had a hand in its creation, most of them feel obligated to at least try to look after it and its inhabitants.

On that note, I present to you the last of the Six:

Ceryna, the Wind of Fate

Ceryna is perhaps the most difficult to understand of all the Six - not without good reason however. The goddess of Weather and Fate, Ceryna's domain upon Loheis is - due to to the nature of the planet - rather extensive. She is the goddess of travelers all across the continents, the patron of many a well-to-do mercenary company or adventuring band. She was the one who taught the first of the Stormcrows, and she has acted as a guide and protector to those with the innate talent for weather working since that First.

Ceryna appears in the night sky as a deep sky blue, and her manifestation is that of a young woman wrapped in a long, hooded cloak seemingly woven from the sky itself. She holds long, fluted staff in her hands and her feet never touch the ground. Instead she glides across earth and sea with equal ease.

Ceryna has, rarely, appeared in person to turn back certain storms from the coasts, flash hurricanes known as Maelstroms. Maelstroms crackle with a fierce, untamed power that has never been understood by the peoples of Loheis. It is said that they are a manifestation of the conflicts between the Six, and that Ceryna's staff - Fateweaver - holds the absorbed might of each and every one of them.

[Algerin]

I think I just found a reason for the Karaka/Karara to revere the Owlbears.

When the cataclysm devastated Savos, the Primal Owlbears are enough were some of the only creatures powerful enough to survive in the new wasteland. Karaka quickly noticed that the Owlbears could easily find water and sources of food in the desert. Tribes of Karaka quickly began migrating with the Owlbears. This could explain their nomadic life easily: They're following their gods.

As to what the world is like, it's very much so on the decline. If the races unified and worked together, they could easily overwhelm any threat to them, but instead they are too primitive(The Karaka, The Northern Half-Elves) or too divided(The Elves and Dwarves) that they're actively working against each other. Other races(The Gnolls, Kobolds and Goblins) simply don't care one way or the other: They're only out for profit or individual survival.

I think the Gnolls should have a strict code on how they treat slaves. After all, a wounded, sick or hungry slave would obviously be worth less. SO when the Gnolls capture prisoners, the prisoner can at least be expected to b treated decently, fed and have his wounds taken care of. As to how the slave-buyers treat them, well that's a different story, but the Gnolls at least are a bit humane about it.

The moons in the sky will typically have one moon dominant, and that's when certain Therianthropes are born(The Mammal moon is dominant, Wolves are born, etc). However, rarely when two moons are dominant there will be abberants that come into being. This can explain the rarer breeds. Also, I've been thinking that different races would have different animals as their Therianthropes. So for example, Half-Elves would be wolves, but The Karaka would be bears.

Therianthropes could have three forms, or maybe just two. The first is that typical of their species, albeit with some animal qualities(Clammy skin for were-leeches, good sense of smell for wolves). The second form would be the Egyptian Therianthrope, with a humanoid body and an animal head. The final would be the animal itself. Though personally I'm for limiting them just to their Egyptian and animal forms.

[Pokonic]

I like it, let's give them three totem animals that represent different dualities.
Owlbears are their chief patron representing a unity of ferocity and wisdom. I'm sure we can think of some mythical representation for the two parts of a demigryphon (although I'm not entirely sire what those two would be, buffalo in back/ falcon in front?) and come up with a third cross-animal to be their other totem I'm thinking sparrowwolf. Due to this depending on which moon is prevalent at the time of your birth you are assigned a totem animal (bear, owl, buffalo, falcon, sparrow, wolf) specifically important to you.

I like what we're doing with the Karuka and think we should do something similar with the other races.

The demigryphon would be something like a Buffalo/plant-eating north american bird (not turkeys. Never turkeys.). Another choice for a totem animal would be a Pathfinder-style Peryton.

I think the Gnolls should have a strict code on how they treat slaves. After all, a wounded, sick or hungry slave would obviously be worth less. SO when the Gnolls capture prisoners, the prisoner can at least be expected to b treated decently, fed and have his wounds taken care of. As to how the slave-buyers treat them, well that's a different story, but the Gnolls at least are a bit humane about it.

Even better, they will offer slaves who can prove themselves in combat a place in the band, along with letting there family free. Hence, a logical way for "Gnoll" bands to be increadably enthnicly varied.

[Elfin]

Deploy—
My conception is very similar to yours, with the addition of a very primeval sense. My imagining is both of a world that is destroyed and fading to wilderness, and that is larger and more lurid than our own.

Remember, Pokonic, it's now several thousand years since the humans died out, rather than several hundred. The ghuls could be the twisted remains of a race of humans warped by the necrotic energy of Shax-Li.
Also, to have any remaining humans greatly dilutes the impact of a humanless world.

I don't know if an active pantheon is the best idea for this world. An inactive, uncaring set of deities who are interested only in their own affairs would highlight the alienness, isolation, and ruin that is the world's dominating theme.

As for mounts, I feel like something could be done with the rocs. Karura roc-riders could be an interesting addition. Rocs might be used as flying beasts of burden on long overland journeys.

Bison-riding I like. Perhaps the demigriffons don't have to be eagle-bison hybrids, but might be lion-bison hybrids instead?

Edit: An idea for the dwarves/thyrse (whichever we end up using): what if we gave them pseudo-Andean, Inca-ish flavor?

[Gallus]

The moons in the sky will typically have one moon dominant, and that's when certain Therianthropes are born(The Mammal moon is dominant, Wolves are born, etc). However, rarely when two moons are dominant there will be abberants that come into being. This can explain the rarer breeds. Also, I've been thinking that different races would have different animals as their Therianthropes. So for example, Half-Elves would be wolves, but The Karaka would be bears.

Therianthropes could have three forms, or maybe just two. The first is that typical of their species, albeit with some animal qualities(Clammy skin for were-leeches, good sense of smell for wolves). The second form would be the Egyptian Therianthrope, with a humanoid body and an animal head. The final would be the animal itself. Though personally I'm for limiting them just to their Egyptian and animal forms.

I like linking the kinds of therianthropes born to the dominant moon at their birth, but I'd rather not limit each moon to only one species.

Also I think the different kinds of forms a therianthrope can take should be up decided by how good at controlling the change a therianthrope is.
The best would be able to hide any animal traits while unmorphed, and be able to change into a hybrid form with all of the best aspects of their two species (perhaps even becoming animal-headed for ceremonial purposes when required); the worst would also seem a bit suspiciously animal-like, and revert to an uncontrollable beast only when their moon is dominant, not being able to make the change of their own free will.

Also as to the cause of therianthropy, it could be like a disease/genetic trait-passed down from generation to generation, or it could be a blessing/curse from the specific moon-god, e.g. being a were-shark in the desert would be a horrible fate, but being one in coastal city would be pretty awesome.

[Pokonic]

Bison-riding I like. Perhaps the demigriffons don't have to be eagle-bison hybrids, but might be lion-bison hybrids instead?

Nah. Why? A pair of horns is a whole lot more intimdating in a calvery charge than a mouth of sharp teeth, and if we remove the bird part they are realy not griffons, are they?

Remember, Pokonic, it's now several thousand years since the humans died out, rather than several hundred. The ghuls could be the twisted remains of a race of humans warped by the necrotic energy of Shax-Li.

Thats....exactly what they are. They are undead, but they are the remains of humankind, warped beyond comprhension by the same energy that preserves them.

[Deploy]

The demigryphon would be something like a Buffalo/plant-eating north american bird (not turkeys. Never turkeys.). Another choice for a totem animal would be a Pathfinder-style Peryton..

How about half parrot? A remnant of Savos's once lush heritage. The front half is a brown parrot with its yellow spots still intact. The green on the belly would be between the birdlike legs, feathers transition to fur in the back where it's large buffalo rear half lies. The most intelligent of them can actually learn how to speak due to their parrotlike beaks. Perhaps the parrot represents color and vibrance while the buffalo is quiet and humble

As for the peryton I like it but instead of a wolfs head lets just give it an antlered hawk head. I like the whole bird in front/ mammal in back concept. It also provides another dual nature to their totem animals. Maybe the hawk is cunning to the stags compassion.

I was judging the alien aspect of the gods less on their appearance and more how I pictured them behaving. I would expect an ancient being that is also literally a giant rock in the sky to think differently than the races of the world do even if they look the same. Also to drive home how great the humans used to be, how about the moon gods take human forms when they walk amongst mortals.

[Sergeantbrother]

Maybe different clans of gnolls should have different attitudes towards slavery? The practice of slavery being common but some treat their slaves well while others are brutally oppressive towards them.

[Snowfire]

And just because I can, I'm going to index the Six here, for your viewing ease and pleasure.

Elethkeira, The Windborn Soulshaper

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Elethkeira, often known as the Windborn Soulshaper, is the goddess of creation and change. One of the oldest of the Six, the ancient texts name her as a sister to Razkor and Teleb. Elethkeira is present, in different guises, in the religions of every culture on Loheis. As the goddess of creation and change, she is never exactly the same twice, she cannot be. But she follows a pattern based around the seasons of the world she helped create.

In spring she is the Maiden, a laughing young woman whose beauty can enchant any who look upon her. She is Elethkeria's aspect of rebirth and renewal and turns her moon a soft and gentle green during her season. The Maiden is also the aspect that caters most to the creative arts, gently stimulating the growth of music and art wherever she can.

Summer brings Elethkeira's Mother aspect to the fore. A deep caring and nurturing spirit permeates all that the Mother does, acting to soothe the world into the beauty of summer. The Mother appears as an older sister to the Maiden, sharing her beauty but in a more refined manner. The Summer moon is a comforting gold, alike to that of ripening wheat.

However change is not always brought about through peace or careful growth. Sometimes it is forced upon the world by the sword. In autumn, as the great armies of the continents make their final campaigns before winter seals them in place, the Warrior awakens. Her moon is the hard silver of well-kept steel and she watches over all conflict on Loheis. The Warrior appears as a lithe, dangerous thing clad all in black, and none have ever tested her blades and emerged victorious.

And the cool chill of Winter brings forth perhaps the most misunderstood aspect of Elethkeira. The Crone. She represents all of the knowledge that Elethkeria has gathered, everything she has seen in her life, and it is the Crone who holds the secrets of not just how to create, but of how to create something that will endure. She appears as an old woman, still strong in her age, and her comings always herald great consternation. Her moon is icy, blue tinged silver.

Elethkeria is the moon of the lizard Therianthropes.

The Soulshaper is one of the closest to her worshippers, appearing in temples all across Loheis during the Seasonsend Festivals, when her aspect changes. She talks freely with her worshippers, exchanging careful advice and guidance in the simplest of conversations.

Teleb, The Timekeeper

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Teleb, last of the Ancients among Gods - the others being his sister Elethkeria and his brother Razkor - is the God of spirits and magic. Whilst his sister exists to create and his brother to end all things, Teleb is the weave that runs through the world of Loheis. He binds existence together, and his is the terrible duty of the Timekeeper, he who knows the When of everything in creation - including its fated end.

Teleb - the moon - is shrouded at all times in swirling mists of aurora, representing the vibrance and eternal nature of magic and the spirits. At all times, except for the Shadowings. Three times a year, when Razkor, Elethkeria and Teleb are in alignment, the mists around Teleb part and all magic stops, to return when the sun rises the next morning. The Shadowings are cloudless nights, devoid of wind, when all the stars grow dim in the sky above compared to the blazing light of Razkor, who shines brighter than Morta on the Shadowings. The ancient texts speak of a day when the light of Razkor will not diminish, and it will reach forth and consume the world, only for Elethkeria and Teleb to lock him away once again and start anew.

Teleb appears as a man of middling years, clad in robes of midnight black with a silver pocketwatch always in his left hand. There are legends of those who caught a glimpse of the face of Teleb's Watch, and none end well.

Teleb's chosen Therianthropes are those of the air, the winged and feathered. He is one of the most rarely seen of the Six, even amongst his faithful, appearing only at times of great import, or greater need.

Silaya, The Veiled One

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Silaya, the goddess of chaos and trickery, is the most feared of all the Moons, her brightening in the heavens seen as a terrifying sign. Silaya was the one who supported the Wizard King's rise to godhood, and when he became powerful enough to refuse her commands she covertly sponsored the growing dissent in his lands, nurturing it into full scale civil war. She was the one who covertly supplied Athanaric with the curse that destroyed much of Savos, and therefore is at least indirectly responsible for the fall of Rohesia - who she now manipulates and uses as a weapon against her enemies.

Although greatly feared and renowned for her ruthlessness, Silaya is not without compassion for those who serve her well, and all the peoples of Loheis know this. The true reason that her worship has never been successfully outlawed is linked to that compassion, as it leads to a fierce protectiveness over her followers that few will dare test.

Her moon glows with a deep indigo light, and she appears as a female figure cloaked and veiled in light grey. Few but her worshippers dare approach her. Due to the avatar she takes, she is also known as The Veiled One.

Silaya creates by her presence, and hence cares for, the insectoid Therianthropes scattered across the world of Loheis. Her manifestations are believed to be relatively common, but they are mostly contained to her faithful and therefore the truth of the matter remains shrouded in mystery.

Jekeren, the Eternal Circle

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Jekeren is the god of pestilence, death and the healing that comes from the endings of such things. As bodies rot in the soil they are buried within, they give life to plants seeking to grow above them, and supply precious food to the denizens of the earth. He is the patron god of agriculture, and following the fall of Rohesia absorbed a considerable amount of her former worshipers who found her new incarnation not to their liking, gaining a limited portfolio within the sphere of nature.

Jekeren is a dark moon, shaded in deep emerald, growing darker when pestilence rises amongst the world, then brightening when life blossoms from its defeat. Jekeren is a well known friend and ally to Elethkeria, as his very existence brings change. His actions embody the philosophy that from the death of hundreds comes the salvation of millions. And as flowers sprout in earnest from buried horrors of the battlefield, so does knowledge and beauty flow from the pain inflicted by illness and death.

Jekeren appears as a weathered and determined man in the robes of a healer. His robes are unique however, in that they are split top to bottom by a difference in colour. His right side is cloaked in black so dark it seems to absorb light itself, his left covered in eye searing white.

His appearances on Loheis are not as common as Elethkeria's, however they are not as fleetingly rare as Teleb's or Ceryna's. His chosen of the were-folk are those who turn to worms and leeches and other such fleshy beings of the earth.

Ceryna, the Wind of Fate

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Ceryna is perhaps the most difficult to understand of all the Six - not without good reason however. The goddess of Weather and Fate, Ceryna's domain upon Loheis is - due to to the nature of the planet - rather extensive. She is the goddess of travelers all across the continents, the patron of many a well-to-do mercenary company or adventuring band. She was the one who taught the first of the Stormcrows, and she has acted as a guide and protector to those with the innate talent for weather working since that First.

Ceryna appears in the night sky as a deep sky blue, and her manifestation is that of a young woman wrapped in a long, hooded cloak seemingly woven from the sky itself. She holds long, fluted staff in her hands and her feet never touch the ground. Instead she glides across earth and sea with equal ease.

Ceryna has, rarely, appeared in person to turn back certain storms from the coasts, flash hurricanes known as Maelstroms. Maelstroms crackle with a fierce, untamed power that has never been understood by the peoples of Loheis. It is said that they are a manifestation of the conflicts between the Six, and that Ceryna's staff - Fateweaver - holds the absorbed might of each and every one of them.

Rohesia, Demon Queen of the Blood Moon

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Formerly a peaceful nature deity, she was turned to evil by the destruction of Savos's forests. With her heart now twisted by hatred, she has vowed to hunt down Athanaric and destroy him.

The Blood Moon is the moon of Rohesia, which turned red following her shift toward vengeance. Her chosen weres are those of the mammalian bent, the archetypal werewolves and werebears that are the subject of so many terror tales.

Elemental, would you mind if I expanded on Rohesia myself? Anything I added would be subject to your opinion, but I have some ideas I think you may like.

And now, on to the star Gods. And then I start working on the constellations....

And an active pantheon doesn't necessarily mean that it can always help. They manifest, they try to help, but other forces can act against them to a much greater degree when they take on a true physical form. It's one of the reasons that Elethkeira hasn't been able to do a great deal about the wasteland Savos has become. She's been devoting too much power to keeping a clear conduit open to her worshippers and being there for them to do more than counteract some of the lasting effects of the curse to let nature start to reclaim what it lost.

[Pokonic]

How about half parrot? A remnant of Savos's once lush heritage. The front half is a brown parrot with its yellow spots still intact. The green on the belly would be between the birdlike legs, feathers transition to fur in the back where it's large buffalo rear half lies. The most intelligent of them can actually learn how to speak due to their parrotlike beaks. Perhaps the parrot represents color and vibrance while the buffalo is quiet and humble

As for the peryton I like it but instead of a wolfs head lets just give it an antlered hawk head. I like the whole bird in front/ mammal in back concept. It also provides another dual nature to their totem animals. Maybe the hawk is cunning to the stags compassion.

I agree on both counts.

[Snowfire]

I was judging the alien aspect of the gods less on their appearance and more how I pictured them behaving. I would expect an ancient being that is also literally a giant rock in the sky to think differently than the races of the world do even if they look the same. Also to drive home how great the humans used to be, how about the moon gods take human forms when they walk amongst mortals.

I can understand the point of view here, I just would say that they are still rather active in the affairs of mortals. Sure, their greatest creation might have wiped itself out - or at least mostly - but there is still a great deal to cherish and shape.

And regarding the manifestation issue, I think I may have inadvertently put that in a while back. And I am now holding on to it, as the way you put it makes it awesome

[Algerin]

I think we can go ahead and replace dwarves with Thyrse now.

[Deploy]

I can understand the point of view here, I just would say that they are still rather active in the affairs of mortals. Sure, their greatest creation might have wiped itself out - or at least mostly - but there is still a great deal to cherish and shape.

And regarding the manifestation issue, I think I may have inadvertently put that in a while back. And I am now holding on to it, as the way you put it makes it awesome

Can we have it both ways? They love their mortal children and want the best for them but they also think a very different way than the mortals themselves.


The human manifestation makes sense. Humans used to be the dominant force of the world and the gods spent millenia cultivating human personas to take up when visiting the world, this used to help keep them inconspicuous, but now it serves the opposite purpose. They're just so set in their ways that they refuse to change.

Wait I know how we can make them completely alien while still being relatable. They don't think like living mortals, they think like humans and all that implies. They don't fully understand why the Karukas whistle to each other or why the gnolls are slavers and never will. But they still try to steer them back to greatness (replacing humans)

[Snowfire]

And whilst at the same time, they do understand due to being, well, Gods. But, they don't understand it whilst manifested. I like it.

[Lord Tyger]

I think we can go ahead and replace dwarves with Thyrse now.

Sweet.

With that in mind, a more in depth description of the Thyrse.

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The Thyrse are not what they once were. This fact is ever in the back of their minds, goading them to greater achievements, letting them bask in their superiority to the ancestors, or driving them to despair over what they have lost.

In the early days of their existence, following their apparently spontaneous birth from the mountains of Gloias, the Jötunn bestrode the world like the colossi they were. They raised eerie spires to worship the six moons from, and feared no living creature. They even contested with the humans during the peak of that latter race's great civilization.

Outbred, left behind by the advancing technology of humankind, and with their magics matched by the Anathemata of the Immaculate Empress, they lost that war and were driven from Savos.

With the death of the Four Kings and Four Queens of the Jötunn at the hands of the Immaculate Empress herself, and the slaying and binding of the other most formidable Jötunn, the power structure was broken, and the Jötunn fell to infighting and self destruction.

This was finally halted with the emergence of the deified culture hero known as the Maiden of Eight Crowns. Taking control of the remaining Jötunn through force of arms and convincing counsel, she declared that the defeat of the Jötunn had been at the will of the gods, who had come to believe the Jötunn, acknowledging no creator, posed a threat to the natural order of the universe. As such, she declared, the Jötunn had no choice but to recreate themselves.


If any at the time questioned the theological validity of this premise, or believed that the Maiden of Eight Crowns, as has since been proposed, had it in her mind more primarily to render the Jötunn more susceptible to the rule of a single powerful figure, they wisely kept their suspicions to themselves.

Thus, through generations of selective breeding, magical influence on conception and pregancy, and ritual magic, the Jötunn became the Thyrse. The Thyrse resemble smaller versions of their ancestors- squat, with jutting brows and huge bulbous noses, thick coils of muscle, and bright hair of gold or flaming red. They lack the powerful innate magics of the ancestors, as well as their stature, but also the self-destructive pride and reluctance to cooperate with others common to the Jötunn.

The Dynasty of the Maiden of Eight Crowns has long since collapsed, and the legendary eight crowns, each pair a symbol of rule over a quarter of the world, have been lost. The Thyrse today are ruled by a complex system of guilds, priesthoods, wealthy families and secret societies, each with their own agenda and spheres of influence.

Though much effort was made by the Maiden of Eight Crowns and her successors to stabilize the Jötunn/Thyrse society during the process of their evolution, one factor still proves unpredictable. With great rareness, and according to no discernible pattern, a Thyrse female, having conceived in the normal way, will labor and give birth to a throwback. At times, these merely assume the stature and/or magical abilities of the Jötunn, while others call back to the initial primal nature of their Giantkin, taking the forms of great wolves, celestial bulls, or collosal serpents with still stranger abilities.

[Pokonic]

Sweet.

With that in mind, a more in depth description of the Thyrse.

Spoiler

Show

The Thyrse are not what they once were. This fact is ever in the back of their minds, goading them to greater achievements, letting them bask in their superiority to the ancestors, or driving them to despair over what they have lost.

In the early days of their existence, following their apparently spontaneous birth from the mountains of Gloias, the Jötunn bestrode the world like the colossi they were. They raised eerie spires to worship the six moons from, and feared no living creature. They even contested with the humans during the peak of that latter race's great civilization.

Outbred, left behind by the advancing technology of humankind, and with their magics matched by the Anathemata of the Immaculate Empress, they lost that war and were driven from Savos.

With the death of the Four Kings and Four Queens of the Jötunn at the hands of the Immaculate Empress herself, and the slaying and binding of the other most formidable Jötunn, the power structure was broken, and the Jötunn fell to infighting and self destruction.

This was finally halted with the emergence of the deified culture hero known as the Maiden of Eight Crowns. Taking control of the remaining Jötunn through force of arms and convincing counsel, she declared that the defeat of the Jötunn had been at the will of the gods, who had come to believe the Jötunn, acknowledging no creator, posed a threat to the natural order of the universe. As such, she declared, the Jötunn had no choice but to recreate themselves.


If any at the time questioned the theological validity of this premise, or believed that the Maiden of Eight Crowns, as has since been proposed, had it in her mind more primarily to render the Jötunn more susceptible to the rule of a single powerful figure, they wisely kept their suspicions to themselves.

Thus, through generations of selective breeding, magical influence on conception and pregancy, and ritual magic, the Jötunn became the Thyrse. The Thyrse resemble smaller versions of their ancestors- squat, with jutting brows and huge bulbous noses, thick coils of muscle, and bright hair of gold or flaming red. They lack the powerful innate magics of the ancestors, as well as their stature, but also the self-destructive pride and reluctance to cooperate with others common to the Jötunn.

The Dynasty of the Maiden of Eight Crowns has long since collapsed, and the legendary eight crowns, each pair a symbol of rule over a quarter of the world, have been lost. The Thyrse today are ruled by a complex system of guilds, priesthoods, wealthy families and secret societies, each with their own agenda and spheres of influence.

Though much effort was made by the Maiden of Eight Crowns and her successors to stabilize the Jötunn/Thyrse society during the process of their evolution, one factor still proves unpredictable. With great rareness, and according to no discernible pattern, a Thyrse female, having conceived in the normal way, will labor and give birth to a throwback. At times, these merely assume the stature and/or magical abilities of the Jötunn, while others call back to the initial primal nature of their Giantkin, taking the forms of great wolves, celestial bulls, or collosal serpents with still stranger abilities.

Swwweeeetttt.

[Deploy]

Sweet.

With that in mind, a more in depth description of the Thyrse.

Spoiler

Show

The Thyrse are not what they once were. This fact is ever in the back of their minds, goading them to greater achievements, letting them bask in their superiority to the ancestors, or driving them to despair over what they have lost.

In the early days of their existence, following their apparently spontaneous birth from the mountains of Gloias, the Jötunn bestrode the world like the colossi they were. They raised eerie spires to worship the six moons from, and feared no living creature. They even contested with the humans during the peak of that latter race's great civilization.

Outbred, left behind by the advancing technology of humankind, and with their magics matched by the Anathemata of the Immaculate Empress, they lost that war and were driven from Savos.

With the death of the Four Kings and Four Queens of the Jötunn at the hands of the Immaculate Empress herself, and the slaying and binding of the other most formidable Jötunn, the power structure was broken, and the Jötunn fell to infighting and self destruction.

This was finally halted with the emergence of the deified culture hero known as the Maiden of Eight Crowns. Taking control of the remaining Jötunn through force of arms and convincing counsel, she declared that the defeat of the Jötunn had been at the will of the gods, who had come to believe the Jötunn, acknowledging no creator, posed a threat to the natural order of the universe. As such, she declared, the Jötunn had no choice but to recreate themselves.


If any at the time questioned the theological validity of this premise, or believed that the Maiden of Eight Crowns, as has since been proposed, had it in her mind more primarily to render the Jötunn more susceptible to the rule of a single powerful figure, they wisely kept their suspicions to themselves.

Thus, through generations of selective breeding, magical influence on conception and pregancy, and ritual magic, the Jötunn became the Thyrse. The Thyrse resemble smaller versions of their ancestors- squat, with jutting brows and huge bulbous noses, thick coils of muscle, and bright hair of gold or flaming red. They lack the powerful innate magics of the ancestors, as well as their stature, but also the self-destructive pride and reluctance to cooperate with others common to the Jötunn.

The Dynasty of the Maiden of Eight Crowns has long since collapsed, and the legendary eight crowns, each pair a symbol of rule over a quarter of the world, have been lost. The Thyrse today are ruled by a complex system of guilds, priesthoods, wealthy families and secret societies, each with their own agenda and spheres of influence.

Though much effort was made by the Maiden of Eight Crowns and her successors to stabilize the Jötunn/Thyrse society during the process of their evolution, one factor still proves unpredictable. With great rareness, and according to no discernible pattern, a Thyrse female, having conceived in the normal way, will labor and give birth to a throwback. At times, these merely assume the stature and/or magical abilities of the Jötunn, while others call back to the initial primal nature of their Giantkin, taking the forms of great wolves, celestial bulls, or collosal serpents with still stranger abilities.

Normally I'd make a suggestion or point out an area that needs improvement, but this is exactly what we need. Their much more interesting than the average dwarf and their very nature captures the fallen and regressing aspect of our world. I hope to see something like this for the other races.

[Lord Tyger]

Normally I'd make a suggestion or point out an area that needs improvement, but this is exactly what we need. Their much more interesting than the average dwarf and their very nature captures the fallen and regressing aspect of our world. I hope to see something like this for the other races.

Aww, shucks.

[Pokonic]

Comon, Tyger! Make like the other Tiger on the playground and start pumping out more stuff!

[Lord Tyger]

I'm not really sure what else the setting needs in terms of races- I guess I could write up a Sahuagin piece. Is everyone agreed on them as being more or less Shadow Over Innsmouth inspired?