Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Objection]

Many thanks to you for this link. I am currently on an archive binge, as many of the articles give form to things I'd been considering myself, and others are just plain neat.

You're going on an archive binge too? I knew I couldn't be the only one!

[Marillion]

Aye. In particular, Does She Like You? has given me some...encouragement towards a certain lady-type person, while Don't Be A Creeper is helping me recognize some potential problem areas. Particularly my "stare"...I've been told I have an intense, penetrating gaze that can be absolutely amazing in the right circumstances...and, uh, not so much in pretty much any other situation. Time to find the dimmer switch

Anecdote time! So there I was, having struck up a conversation* with an attractive young lady I'd had my eye on for a while. We're talking about how much better Jurassic Park is as a novel, when a guy I work with walks past us, stands behind her, and proceeds to make this face. (NSFW, strong language) At me. For a minute and a half. I try to ignore him, but then the side of my head starts to smoke and mid-sentence I say "WHAT, Tyler?"

At this, he turns around, walks away, and vanishes into the crowd before she can turn around and see what I was talking about. So now I look crazy. Fortunately, she seemed to take it in stride, and the conversation turned towards weird people in general. I did have to at least pretend to get back to work, but all in all, I'd call this a success for me.

Moral of the story: People named Tyler SUCK Making conversation isn't always as difficult as it seems, and setbacks can hide opportunities

*Her being one of my regulars (she can come up to the counter and say "and a drink, please!"), we'd chatted before, but this was an actual conversation. It was a nice change.

[Drascin]

Aye. In particular, Does She Like You? has given me some...encouragement towards a certain lady-type person, while Don't Be A Creeper is helping me recognize some potential problem areas. Particularly my "stare"...I've been told I have an intense, penetrating gaze that can be absolutely amazing in the right circumstances...and, uh, not so much in pretty much any other situation. Time to find the dimmer switch

It's always a bit amusing to see the contradicting advice, as well. I was always told you really should make sure to keep eye contact when talking to anyone, because doing otherwise makes you seem untrustworthy. This says that nope, too long eye contact actually makes you seem aggressive and you need to look away frequently or you'll be a threat .

[Reluctance]

It's always a bit amusing to see the contradicting advice, as well. I was always told you really should make sure to keep eye contact when talking to anyone, because doing otherwise makes you seem untrustworthy. This says that nope, too long eye contact actually makes you seem aggressive and you need to look away frequently or you'll be a threat .

The fact of the matter is that people are horrible at knowing what they'll actually like. No, really. So you have a lot of "advice" where someone takes a case where someone went too far in one direction, and insists that the solution is to avoid going that way at all. Needless to say, the result is a jumbled, schizophrenic mess.

The only practical, across the board advice I can give is this. Enjoy.

[Stardrake]

This is where the 'all things in moderation' line comes into play. Constantly staring at someone's eyes (or forehead, nose, or any of the other tricks used to give the impression of looking into someone's eyes) is confronting - we've probably all been told it's rude to stare, after all. On the other hand, refusing to meet someone's eyes is a sign of nervousness often associated with dishonesty. Unless you're trying to persuade someone of the sincerity of a point (and even then you probably shouldn't maintain eye contact for more than a second or two) it's best to maintain a balance between making, holding, and breaking eye contact. (Especially if in a group setting - meeting the eyes of others in the group occasionally rather than focussing entirely on one person is to be expected, but noticeably paying more attention to the subject of your interest - without overdoing it - is a way of showing that interest.)

I've actually seen this happen more than a few times this past year. It seems like the 'just a friend' line is sometimes used by women who felt they went too far too fast, both to reset things again, and to challenge you to not immediately back down.

The best way to respond is to behave almost exactly the same way as you did last time around, and see if she does the same. If she doesn't respond to any of your advances this time around, she meant it literally. If she does...then not so much.

There's a possibility I didn't consider, but a valid one. Nevertheless, the best advice remains... don't be a neuter. If you feel the urge to say or do something flirtatious with her, don't let the friends speech stop you (unless you can tell it's making her uncomfortable). But don't let your affection for her blind you to other potential matches. If it does work out with her, that's great. If you find someone else instead... that's also great.

Many thanks to you for this link. I am currently on an archive binge, as many of the articles give form to things I'd been considering myself, and others are just plain neat.

No worries! I had much the same response when I came across it (through someone linking the Nerds And Male Privilige article) - there's a lot of interesting stuff in there, even if not all of it will be applicable to every reader's situation. If nothing else, it's well-written enough to be entertaining.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Man, I suck at reading into things.

Spoiler

Show

So, I was at this decent sized anime convention yesterday. I was there with two dude friends and we briefly ran into the girl I've mentioned a few times before and her friends. We talked a little and then sort of split off. We then met up again while we were waiting in line for the rave. So we were in line for an hour or more and ... Nothing really happened. We talked a bit, but not a lot. Then we finally got into the rave.

At one point she challenged me to a dance off, and beat me bad. (I not being very into it at that point and having never been to a rave before, saw my loss miles away.) Later, she talked me and a guy friend into going into the middle of the dancing, as we had both been doing our own thing and were pretty nervous. A bit after that she, well, basically tried to grind with me. And I just froze up. Completely.

So yeah, that was very awkward and lasted for less than thirty seconds. Now I'm worried about looking like a tool, (although friends have told me I didn't) and that if she did have any interest in me it'll have gone awy because I didn't really show any interest.

Arrrgh.

[Serpentine]

Well that one seems pretty easy to me (relatively speaking). At the very least she seems friendly with you, so grab a contact detail of some description and drop her a note. "Hey, remember me? I was the Socially Awkward Penguin the other night" or something similarly amusingly self-depreciating could be a suitable opener.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Well that one seems pretty easy to me (relatively speaking). At the very least she seems friendly with you, so grab a contact detail of some description and drop her a note. "Hey, remember me? I was the Socially Awkward Penguin the other night" or something similarly amusingly self-depreciating could be a suitable opener.

Oh, no. I know her. She's in my 6 person English class. I have her number and stuff...

[Lord Loss]

@Atlanteantroll
I'm going to have to agree with serpentine on this one. The girl seems fairly interested in you so a single screwup generally doesn't mean much as long as it's followed up properly. I reccomend you take the initiative and get in touch with her sometime soon, without letting things get awkward between you two.

My two friends who have been in a relationship for over a year now? Met because I was arguing loudly wit ha friend of mine and my female friend jumped to my defense. Thy proceeded to get into a heated argument about something totally unrelated.

So basically what I'm going at here is that a single false move doesn't mean very much as long as on the whole things go positively.

[Serpentine]

Oh, no. I know her. She's in my 6 person English class. I have her number and stuff...

Eh, principle's the same.

[Maralais]

In response to the request for advice: This site is probably much better than anything I can give.

It gives Error 503

[Objection]

It gives Error 503

Keep trying. Seriously. (EDIT: Wait, which one was 503 again?)

[rogueboy]

Keep trying. Seriously. (EDIT: Wait, which one was 503 again?)

503's "Service Temporarily Unavailable". It was working last night, but seems to be down today (and has been for a while), for whatever reason.

[Glass Mouse]

503's "Service Temporarily Unavailable". It was working last night, but seems to be down today (and has been for a while), for whatever reason.

Apparantly, it's Dreamhost that's down. Fave the site and return some time later. What little I saw was definitely worth reading

[Heliomance]

So why did you say you "personally disagreed" with that, and that while you weren't attempting to present it in a "morally absolute sense", you evidently still considered that desire immoral in some way?

It would be nice if I didn't have to ask three times to get an answer.

[AtlanteanTroll]

It would be nice if I didn't have to ask three times to get an answer.

I think you aren't going to get an answer at this point.

[DeadManSleeping]

@AtlanteanTroll: Hey, I think I was at that con! Was the convention center attached to a Hyatt hotel?

In regards to your female friend, well, oddly enough, grinding doesn't mean much to people in that crowd. I remember prom. I had a girl I barely knew as my prom date (her boyfriend couldn't go, and my parents desperately wanted me to go, so I just decided to take the hit). We get up on the dance floor and, welp. Yeah. I'd never even heard of grinding before then. After that night we went back to being perfect strangers.

Did she engage your crotch with her rear end? Yes. Does it mean anything? No.

But she clearly enjoys your company so maybe she likes you anyway. Try asking her out! And if she says no then you can still be friends. Seriously.

[Doctor NerdLove]

Hey folks. After seeing some of the traffic coming from here I thoguht I'd poke my head in and say "hey".

Sorry about that the 503 errors; DreamHost had a massive problem last night and most of today which took the site offline. Things are working again, so feel free to head over and indulge in an archive binge.

And hey, if you have any questions about the advice - especially over anything you think may be somewhat contradictory - feel free to ask me about it. Easiest place is via the contact page on the blog; I'm always taking questions for Ask Dr. NerdLove.

(And to address Drascin's concern: eye-contact is important. Intense, prolonged eye-contact is creepy; you go from paying attention to someone to "is he sizing me up to see how much of a flesh-suit he can make out of me". The best thing you can do is hold eye contact for a few seconds then deliberately break it - looking up and away, not down - then re-establish it. It helps break the "creepy" factor.)

[AtlanteanTroll]

@AtlanteanTroll: Hey, I think I was at that con! Was the convention center attached to a Hyatt hotel?

Indeed it was!

In regards to your female friend, well, oddly enough, grinding doesn't mean much to people in that crowd. I remember prom. I had a girl I barely knew as my prom date (her boyfriend couldn't go, and my parents desperately wanted me to go, so I just decided to take the hit). We get up on the dance floor and, welp. Yeah. I'd never even heard of grinding before then. After that night we went back to being perfect strangers.

Did she engage your crotch with her rear end? Yes. Does it mean anything? No.

Oh, I understand. Her friend was grinding with a perfect stranger. See, I didn't even let that happen. Which is my main concern.

But she clearly enjoys your company so maybe she likes you anyway. Try asking her out! And if she says no then you can still be friends. Seriously.

Yeah. I'm much less worried about it now then I was earlier. Talked to her some (not about that, per se) and talked to some friends... I think I'm alright, even if I did botch that instant. My chances shot in some direction last night, I know that. The question is in what direction. I'm thinking it's up.. As of now, anyway.

[Stardrake]

Sounds to me like it's more likely to be something that you both laugh about later the moment you botched everything. If she does seem to be treating you more coolly as a result, talk to her about it and let her know that it was just because she caught you off guard (pretty much everyone's been there). Otherwise... it's material to make a joke of later that might overall make it more of a bonding moment than if you had responded the 'right' way to begin with.

[breakdownjason]

Hey guys, I have a question for all of you. Well, a series of questions really. I recently got divorced from my wife (married for 1 year, together for 5), and am currently living alone with my 3 children. Recently, I started seeing one of my friends ex girlfriends. She's awesome with the kids, a fantastic converstionalist, a superb cook and is very skilled in... let's say other ways. The problem comes in that the friend is attempting to take the moral high ground on me claiming that I'm not thinking of my children when it comes to my current actions and has even taken to comparing me to my ex wife (she doesn't see the kids much of her own accord), and claiming that I'm just getting into the relationship as a rebound, and all the girl wants is a baby daddy. I understand if he's hurt, but I even went the honorable way and personally asked him for his permission to see her. The problem started yesterday when she showed up at my place at the end of our weekly gaming session. He didn't seem to upset about it while we were all there, but afterwards, she started getting really nasty texts from him calling her a hypocrite and I got a long rambling message on facebook about how terrible everything we're doing together is. Now I considered him a great friend, and I don't want to lose the friendship, but he's acting like a belligerent a-hole and I don't know if I can put up with the stress this is putting on me. So playground, any ideas for me?

[Maralais]

Hey folks. After seeing some of the traffic coming from here I thoguht I'd poke my head in and say "hey".

Sorry about that the 503 errors; DreamHost had a massive problem last night and most of today which took the site offline. Things are working again, so feel free to head over and indulge in an archive binge.

And hey, if you have any questions about the advice - especially over anything you think may be somewhat contradictory - feel free to ask me about it. Easiest place is via the contact page on the blog; I'm always taking questions for Ask Dr. NerdLove.

(And to address Drascin's concern: eye-contact is important. Intense, prolonged eye-contact is creepy; you go from paying attention to someone to "is he sizing me up to see how much of a flesh-suit he can make out of me". The best thing you can do is hold eye contact for a few seconds then deliberately break it - looking up and away, not down - then re-establish it. It helps break the "creepy" factor.)

Well, I had started reading it but it seems to be down again.

[Drascin]

And hey, if you have any questions about the advice - especially over anything you think may be somewhat contradictory - feel free to ask me about it. Easiest place is via the contact page on the blog; I'm always taking questions for Ask Dr. NerdLove.

(And to address Drascin's concern: eye-contact is important. Intense, prolonged eye-contact is creepy; you go from paying attention to someone to "is he sizing me up to see how much of a flesh-suit he can make out of me". The best thing you can do is hold eye contact for a few seconds then deliberately break it - looking up and away, not down - then re-establish it. It helps break the "creepy" factor.)

Oh, don't worry about me - I'm more or less the peanut gallery here, nothing more, given that I'm not particularly interested in putting the bother to find a relationship (nor would I even know what to do with one even if it fell into my lap . Reason I'm not pursuing my little crush and simply letting the feelings simmer down on their own). I was just noting with amusement how terribly confusing it all must be to those trying to follow the advice they find, given everyone says something different and each piece of advice is mutually exclusive .

[Dvil]

Hey guys, I have a question for all of you. Well, a series of questions really. I recently got divorced from my wife (married for 1 year, together for 5), and am currently living alone with my 3 children. Recently, I started seeing one of my friends ex girlfriends. She's awesome with the kids, a fantastic converstionalist, a superb cook and is very skilled in... let's say other ways. The problem comes in that the friend is attempting to take the moral high ground on me claiming that I'm not thinking of my children when it comes to my current actions and has even taken to comparing me to my ex wife (she doesn't see the kids much of her own accord), and claiming that I'm just getting into the relationship as a rebound, and all the girl wants is a baby daddy. I understand if he's hurt, but I even went the honorable way and personally asked him for his permission to see her. The problem started yesterday when she showed up at my place at the end of our weekly gaming session. He didn't seem to upset about it while we were all there, but afterwards, she started getting really nasty texts from him calling her a hypocrite and I got a long rambling message on facebook about how terrible everything we're doing together is. Now I considered him a great friend, and I don't want to lose the friendship, but he's acting like a belligerent a-hole and I don't know if I can put up with the stress this is putting on me. So playground, any ideas for me?

I've no idea how this would turn out, but my gut instinct tells me that the best idea would be to put your foot down a little with him. Remind him that You asked his permission to see her, and that if he had any problems he could have raised them then. Now you're involved, and (presumably) you don't want to break it off with her just because he spat his dummy out, so all he can do at this stage is man up and get over it.

[Maralais]

Also, I have my own search for advice to do.

I get that I have to be confident around ladies and sometimes I do feel the need to actually go out and actually do something.

Except that I feel that need during holidays, where I have practically got very little connections due to being in a boarding school, and the connections from the school that I go are scattered around the country, with none being in the same city.

So I feel that I should do something, yet I also feel like I currently don't have the opportunity to do it. And when the opportunity comes, I'm too busy wondering about lessons and stuff to actually focus on that.

Or perhaps I could try to rebuild my connections from elementary school, damn I'm answering my own question.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Erm, perhaps your troubles would be better suited to the Personal Woe and Advice thread?

[DeadManSleeping]

Personal connections are certainly a type of relationship.

[Vacant]

The flirting/teasing connection is an important one to remember, from both sides. My tendency to continually give everyone the business at literally all times has been mistaken for flirting numerous times to my chagrin and/or fury.

[Maralais]

Oh wait, what I meant was romantic relationships, that's the problem I feel. I've got no problems about other types of intrapersonal relationships, it's just that when I tell myself "alright, time to flirt with ladies, actively look for people and all", I've got no place to do that.

So I created a misunderstanding about a misunderstanding. Lovely.

[AtlanteanTroll]

Personal connections are certainly a type of relationship.

There was a post after Maralais that was deleted. I was not referring to Maralais.