Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Frozen_Feet]

It's interesting how different mechanics you read into this thing. I reckon the ego boost would come from the fact that those people would be happy to receive affection and give you some in return, making you feel yourself wanted as well.

It's got little to nothing to do with being "superior" or looking down on them.

Contrast with trying to message prettiest girl at prom and not getting a reply simply because she doesn't have time to read your message, regardless of how much effort you put into it. Her lack of response might have nothing to do with her being out of your league or personal incompatibility, but even with those in mind I doubt such silent rejection feels good to anyone.

[rogueboy]

It shouldn't really matter whether they "see a point" or not when it comes to doing an easy, very short duration favor for someone who is ostensibly a friend.

I got the impression that it was more of a "I don't have any photos around because my group of friends doesn't take a lot of photos" than "none of my friends are willing to take photos". Which may just be because that's the situation I'm in, who knows. It's why I usually end up lamenting having a profile picture that's fairly outdated, and why I only have a few mediocre pictures to choose from for my profile.

[Coidzor]

I got the impression that it was more of a "I don't have any photos around because my group of friends doesn't take a lot of photos" than "none of my friends are willing to take photos". Which may just be because that's the situation I'm in, who knows. It's why I usually end up lamenting having a profile picture that's fairly outdated, and why I only have a few mediocre pictures to choose from for my profile.

If they're not unwilling then you can take some steps to get some deliberately, which'll add up over time even if you only remember to do it occasionally.

[Vella_Malachite]

@DeadManSleeping: Thanks! I'll try to look at/do/implement some of that next time I see him.

[rogueboy]

If they're not unwilling then you can take some steps to get some deliberately, which'll add up over time even if you only remember to do it occasionally.

Oh, absolutely. The problem is remembering to have people take photos on occasion. Or, when I/we do remember to take photos, to get people and not just things.

[DeadManSleeping]

@DeadManSleeping: Thanks! I'll try to look at/do/implement some of that next time I see him.

Don't act too far out of your own nature, whatever you do. When someone is doing something that they themselves are uncomfortable with, it shows. And I don't know you well enough to know if you do "cute awkward" or just "awkward awkward".

[Sholos]

I got the impression that it was more of a "I don't have any photos around because my group of friends doesn't take a lot of photos" than "none of my friends are willing to take photos". Which may just be because that's the situation I'm in, who knows. It's why I usually end up lamenting having a profile picture that's fairly outdated, and why I only have a few mediocre pictures to choose from for my profile.

This is indeed what I meant. Though I did manage to find a few and throw them up on OKC (for what good it will do). Anyone care to tell me what they think? The photos are the only change so far. refresher link

[Skeppio]

*snip*

You do have a good point there, Frozen. It's mainly the whole "for an ego boost" angle that Reluctance endorsed that set me off. :/

[Starwulf]

You do have a good point there, Frozen. It's mainly the whole "for an ego boost" angle that Reluctance endorsed that set me off. :/

To further on this, if Reluctance had gone into detail the way you did, explaining how it could be beneficial to both parties, I wouldn't have gone off on him, but the way he phrased it, you have to admit, sounds pretty rotten(and as is obvious, I'm not the only one, both on the thread, and in PM). Combine that with how he acted towards Birchgrove earlier, it just added up to everything I said in my first response.

[Vella_Malachite]

Don't act too far out of your own nature, whatever you do. When someone is doing something that they themselves are uncomfortable with, it shows. And I don't know you well enough to know if you do "cute awkward" or just "awkward awkward".

I won't. What was the quotation? "Be yourself; everyone else is taken"?

And, for your information, I am never awkward. I glide through life smoothly and effortlessly with a minimum of fuss. I have never said anything inadvertently creepy and/or inappropriate and been laughed at for weeks afterwards, and I have *certainly* never fallen on my butt while performing martial arts, much to the amusement of everyone else in the dojo But if I were any sort of awkward, it would be entirely the latter.

[Coidzor]

For all the outrage Reluctance's comment has generated, he seems to be the only one who actually has given advice for the problem.

I'm sorry. I keep bouncing off of this and have to keep coming back to try again.

I've really just been blanking out on advice as far as initiating small talk and how to continue it for some reason.

I can remember the basic platitudes about trying something vaguely witty or observant about any current events or things that just happened in the vicinity or something that's on-going, like commenting on how crazy that fight between the two guys in mascot costumes was as the victor cavorts off in victory with the decapitated head of the other costume during an especially odd sports game/trip to the mall...

And of course there's the weather or expressing appreciation for her style or some witty injoke made by her clothing... :/

But really that's just blanking out and my pulling that out when I've got nothing real to give you.

Oh, absolutely. The problem is remembering to have people take photos on occasion. Or, when I/we do remember to take photos, to get people and not just things.

Hmm. Do you have a phone with notifications or a calendar function? Or maybe an iPod that you use a lot with similar functionality. Or any way that you keep track of future engagements, really...

Because during a time like now while such is on your mind you could set aside a bit of time, go through upcoming events that you think will be nifty enough to generate some sweet pics, and just add in a little reminder or an event immediately preceding/following the event reminding you to take a camera & get pics taken of you (and even take some yourself too, maybe).

Unfortunately that's the only idea I've really had other than mentally coaching one's self about it until one remembered it naturally or as a matter of course.

[rogueboy]

Hmm. Do you have a phone with notifications or a calendar function? Or maybe an iPod that you use a lot with similar functionality. Or any way that you keep track of future engagements, really...

Because during a time like now while such is on your mind you could set aside a bit of time, go through upcoming events that you think will be nifty enough to generate some sweet pics, and just add in a little reminder or an event immediately preceding/following the event reminding you to take a camera & get pics taken of you (and even take some yourself too, maybe).

Unfortunately that's the only idea I've really had other than mentally coaching one's self about it until one remembered it naturally or as a matter of course.

My phone does have a calendar feature, but I almost never use it. That might change when I get a smartphone in May (when my phone contract is up and I can get a cheaper phone). Combine this with the fact that most of what I do that would generate good pictures are either fairly short notice (things like game nights), or don't lend themselves well to pictures, at least by people who are going to be there anyways (things like soccer and racquetball).

[Reluctance]

Rogueboy: You know what's great about modern phones? They have cameras built right in. The image quality could be better, of course. If the point is to say that you go out and do fun things with fun people, the intent is there even if the artistic flair is largely lost.

And yes. I meant out-and-out refusing to take pictures. As in needs me to request it repeatedly, and then halfass whatever shot. Some of it's lack of artistic expression. Some of it's lack of self-esteem.

Squish: It's easy to get upset at evidence-based suggestions when they disagree with your outlook. Look at antivaccination people. I'll be interested in their advice when they start giving concrete examples. I'll start believing in it when they start to give concrete proof. Until then, do yourself a favor, and come at things from a results-based perspective.

[Glass Mouse]

I'm terrible at small talk

Small talk is easy. Have a small collection of intro questions (you know, "what are you doing, where are you from, have you seen [popular movie], etc."), and then ask questions, questions, questions. Listen, and ask. People like to talk about themselves.

Fun bonus; you get to hear about another person's life and thoughts

Of course, at some point you need to put a little bit of yourself into the conversation, but I can't give much advice there. I tend to just ask, enjoy the conversation, and if the other person doesn't ask back, I just don't return next time.


I can't help you with the other stuff. And... I wish I couldn't believe that other people would be so cruel as those girls. Everytime I hear about that "game", it just makes my heart cringe. *delayed, high school-relevant hugs*

[rogueboy]

Rogueboy: You know what's great about modern phones? They have cameras built right in. The image quality could be better, of course. If the point is to say that you go out and do fun things with fun people, the intent is there even if the artistic flair is largely lost.

The problem isn't having a camera. My phone has a camera, as you said, and I've got a decent point-and-shoot as well. The problem's actually taking pictures that include people, let alone me. Example: On a day trip to Philly with a couple friends last year, we took about 20 photos. Exactly 1 has any of the 3 of us in it, and even that wasn't a picture of her, she just happened to be standing in the shot when I took it. Ah well, it's a relatively minor issue, and is only really a problem when I have a need/interest in photos of myself.

[Vella_Malachite]

@Admiral Squish: I agree with Glass Mouse, belated *hugs* for high school being a terrible place.

As for small talk, I find making up a list of preprepared questions helps. Make them a bit 'different', so instead of 'where do you work', 'what're you studying', that sort of thing, ask about popular movies, or a ride at a theme park she may have been to. I've had some success starting coversations with "Did you know [insert odd scientific fact here]?" Either they knew that, and you can discuss it, and they can offer a fact of their own, or they didn't and you can describe it in the most entertaining way possible

I haven't asked for many people's numbers, but here's some advice which might work:
- Start by giving your number. If you had a good time chatting, say so, then write your number down and say "Will you give me a call? Let's do this again sometime."
- You could arrange to do something and then use that as an excuse. I did this with a guy by volunteering to join the choir he helps to run, then exchanging details so he could keep me updated on the choir. If it's more of a date you've organised, ask for the number 'just in case something comes up'.
Remember: only ask for a number if you and she are both having a good time. If she's not, she may well refuse or give you a fake number. If you're not having a good time, chances are, you don't want the number anyway . Basically, the way to not come off as creepy is for both of you to be enjoying yourselves. Then it comes off as "We're having so much fun, I'd like to continue to have fun", rather than "I can't tell that you don't want me around, and I'll probably stalk you if you give me your number."

First dates depend entirely on what you want. Don't want to spend a lot of money? Grab a bite at an inexpensive (but nice!) cafe and go for a walk together. Just try and organise something relaxed and don't buy her things or push too hard with stuff. First dates are really getting-to-know you, so just do something you'd do with any mate, and chances are you'll have fun.

[akma]

Last night I went out with friends and got acquinted with a woman I didn`t know before, if you want a name let`s pretend it`s A. We seemed to get along well, and I thought she liked me in a romantic way, until she offered to set me up with someone else. I talked about it with a friend, and he said that women do that all the time, and that it`s meaningless. I wonder, is that a common phenomenon? Can anyone shed some light on that?

[term1nally s1ck]

Some women use it as a way to see how interested you are in them. Some do it when they know you're interested and are trying to distract you. Some do it when they're oblivious and trying to be nice.

All in all, you can deduce precisely nothing from it.

[Vella_Malachite]

Sorry to bother you guys again.

I just need someone to tell me to stop coming up with increasingly convoluted plans to spend some time with this guy and just go and ask him to spend time with me? Contingency plans are all very well, but this is getting ridiculous...

[Serpentine]

Stop coming up with increasingly convoluted plans to spend some time with this guy and just go and ask him to spend time with you.
(unless they're really cool, fun Amelie-style convoluted plans that are guaranteed to work, but even Amelie eventually had to bite the bullet and own up to it)

[ufo]

Hey Playground, long time no see. I think it's two or more years since I last used the forums here.

I'm sorry in advance if this post becomes tediously long. Especially since I'm not sure what advice I'm looking for. Writing these things is a very emotional and spontaneous process for me, and what I think is gonna happen is that I will describe every detail of the situation. I just hope that some of you will take the time to read it through, and hopefully you have some advice.

I'm not sure when it all started, but I guess it must've been a year ago, or something like that. You see, what happened was that I fell in love. Not really as dramatic as it sounds, I developed a fancy for a girl that I went to boarding school with.

(It's probably not important, but keep in mind that I live in Denmark where boarding schools are rather different than most other countries. I guess the most important difference is that we only spend one or two years at boarding school.)

We were friends for some time and would often sleep together (which was not a big deal, because we lived down the corridor from eachother) and spend entire days doing nothing together. Basically, besides doing regular friend-stuff, we seemed to just enjoy each other's presence. It was like this for some time, until one evening when we were laying besides each other, I kissed her. It was very awkward, especially the part where she went "Uuh... what was that?"

We both cried a lot that night. She told me that she also thought our friendship was developing in that direction, but she was scared that something would come between us and that if we became lovers and later fell apart our friendship (which we both cherished) would be unsalvageable. Keep in mind, though, that she said she was scared of this happening, but definitely did not reject me - she needed time to think. The days went on and things became a bit less awkward between us. Thankfully, we are both openminded persons, so we could talk about all this without it getting awkward.

A week or two later, we had both been taking a few dancing lessons and the first snow had just fallen. We decided that if the sky was clear, we would waltz in the snow under the starry sky (listening to this). It sounds like a very romantic setup, but it was actually really spontaneous. It was, however, also very romantic. That same night, when we were sleeping next to each other, we started kissing and holding each other very close.

I guess this is where it started. We were both reluctant to call each other lovers, and the relationship was sort of secret. Not for any reason other than privacy, really. We preferred people to think of us as "Peter" and "Puk", not "Peter and Puk".

A few weeks passed where my world was continously rocked by the feeling of being in deep, deep love. I could feel that it blossomed now that we were together. Then our relationship became more a part of our everyday life - not in a negative way, though. Our feelings just settled, I guess, and things got stable.

Well, of course we fighted from time to time. This is the only relationship I've been in, so I can't really say whether our fighting was serious or just felt like it because I loved her. But we always stopped fighting, and for me it felt like we understood each other a little better every time.

The school year was starting to come to an end. At this point, everybody knew we were together, but we still made as little a deal of it as possible. We lived in two completely seperate parts of the country, and we talked superficially about what we would do when the school ended, but we never really took a serious conversation.

Then, a month or so before the end of school, I was suddenly expelled for cannabis consumption.

From here on, the chronology may not be completely correct. See, a lot of things happened following this. I started getting very severe anxiety attacks and many things became very hard to overcome. For the next few weeks, she and I were together a few times and we talked about moving together (even though we were definitely much younger than people typically are when they do that). The plans never really became very serious, mostly because my family refused to help me because they thought it was stupid. But we kept seeing each other, and when spring break came, we were together a lot and for several weeks at a time.

I think this is when I really started loving her, a lot. We would borrow her sister's apartment and just go about our lives (together), doing everyday stuff together or coming up with crazy plans for fun things to do. Things were not all fine and dandy, though. My anxiety would sometimes cause situations between us, because I would be gripped by a sudden fear that she did not love me, or that if I said the wrong thing she would hate me. As a result, whenever the anxiety came over me, I would became vague, unimpressive and undecisive which could irritate her to no end, until we could clear up what had happened. At other times, she would be gripped by an inexplicable hate for me, and she would be completely devastated because she really wanted to be with me.

Each time, we worked it out and were happy together again. Spring break ended, and I was diagnosed with a depression and put on medication. It was the beginning of the school year, and neither of us had much time - remember, we lived far from each other, so we only really had opportunity to see each other in free weekends. We saw each other in one weekend after school started, and then we didn't spend time together for about a month.

Then, we finally were together in her sister's apartment. This was in September 2011, I think. Friday, things seemed okay. We met at the rail station, we kissed and went home. I thought something felt amiss, but she has always been a very omnious person and didn't make a great display of her feelings, good or bad. So I thought it was nothing. Then, Saturday, something happened. I don't remember why, but I got an anxiety attack while she wasn't nearby and I went to the balcony to cry, because I didn't think there was reason for her to worry.

Well, she came to me while I was sitting there, crying. We talked a little about the things that made me anxious, and then she broke it to me. She said that even though she loved me as much as she had ever done, she was no longer in love. At the time, I didn't really understand this. We cried together, and when I asked her what it would mean to us, she said that it does not have to mean anything. So I guess I just thought she meant that she wasn't as crazy about me as always, and to be fair we had been together for a few months, so I thought it made sense for her not to feel butterflies in her tummy whenver she saw me.

We went to sleep that night, and it was very weird. I should mention, that sex was never really something we talked much about. We just slept together, started cuddling and eventually things would "heat up" if we were in the mood. Well, we cuddled, and started kissing passionately while she sat on me. And suddenly, she laid down next to me and did nothing. I started kissing her, and even though she returned my kisses, I could definitely feel her restricting me from, eh, "going down", as they say.

I didn't know what it meant. Something like that had never happened before. Something was very wrong, and I could definitely feel it. I almost had an anxiety attack, but convinced myself that she was probably just menstruating and went to sleep.

The next day went by, and the time came for me to head home. She was accompanying me to the rail station, and on our way down from her sister's apartment I kissed her in the elevator. Well, I tried to. I could feel her lips not moving and I saw her expression not changing. On the way to the rail station we walked through a park, and I said to her that sometimes, it is hard to believe that she loves me when I am the only one taking the incentive to kiss and to be together.

And, well, this is where the bomb was dropped. Take in mind, she didn't break up with me. She told me what she had told me the day before - she loved me, but was no longer in love. I really don't remember the conversation much, as I broke down completely. We sat on the grass for hours and talked. She said she wanted me to stay another night so she could be sure that I was okay, but I told her that I couldn't wake up next to her tomorrow.

She walked me to the rail station and I left. We were both in tears.

At this point, I dropped out of the gymnasium (American equivelant is High School, I think). We would talk a few times, though it was mostly me calling her during my anxiety attacks (that, at this point, were frequently actually panic attacks) when my rationality wasn't exactly on it's high. As I mentioned, she is an openminded person and she was ready to talk to me even though we were not together. This stopped, though, and for a long time we didn't talk. I started my education again, but kept getting sicker and sicker.

Now, I guess it must be a month ago or a bit more, when I first wrote to her again. I don't know why I wrote (and I wrote that, too), I just needed to tell her what was going on in my life and how I felt. As always, she was ready to listen. At this point, I wasn't sure if I was still in love with her.

What happened though, was that now that we were in contact again, I couldn't stop myself from writing her again, in a bout of irrationality during a panic attack. It's hard to explain, but I read the e-mail the next day and it looked like the ramblings of a madman - I don't know if you have ever had a panic attack, but when it happens, it doesn't feel as if you are feeling bad right now, it feels as though everything is bad, always. And I had tried to get the point across to her.

What made this last e-mail different wasn't her response (she didn't respond, actually, but when I later wrote that I was sorry, she said that she just hadn't known what to write), but what it made me realise.

You see, for a long time I felt very tired when I was in school. It was strange, because in the morning I would feel fresh. Then, every day when I came home and I stood over my bed, about to take a nap, I suddenly realised that I wasn't tired. I was longing for my bed, yes, but I was longing to share it with her. To be with her, for us to touch each other and talk to each other - and if you will forgive the romantic babble, I was longing to feel whole again.

So I wrote to her. I wrote that I had realized that I was still in love with her. It's hard to describe what I wrote, really, but it was typical romantic stuff, and I finished off by asking her if she was willing to give us another chance.

She wrote that she was really sorry to have to do this again, but that it would ruin us both if we were together. This was two days ago.


Playground, I just don't know what to do. I am so ****ing devastated by all this. For the past (almost) half a year, I have been crying every night I didn't go to sleep intoxicated and everything has felt completely wrong. Like I'm in a reality where I definitely do not belong. I still love her very much, have always done so and I have no reason to do otherwise. Yet everything has changed around me and my life has grinded to a halt.

I'm not sure what I want. I mean, of course I want to be with her - that is the whole point. But I don't want to pressure her, and I don't want her to do anything out of guilt. Yet, it feels so wrong that things are like they are - I just can't ignore the feeling that something is out of place, that there is something I need to do or something I have done wrong that I must change. After that last exchange it feels as if the matter is more pressing than ever. I realized, that until that point I had been writing to her in the hopes that I would somehow come to utter the magic words that would set everything right for her, and I have realized that this means so much to me that I have nothing to lose.

Having written this and looked it through, I see that there's not much you guys can respond to. I think that I'm just hoping that one of you have the magic words handy. I realize that you don't know her, and you don't know me, but if you have any ideas about what I could do or say it would mean much to me. I know it sounds like I'm trying to manipulate her, and if you suspect it is what is happening, there are no hard feelings if you don't want to help me. I just can't stress enough that this feels wrong, that maybe she is misinterpreting her feelings - especially when she says that she loves me, but is not in love.

Of course, none of this takes into account that she may be flat out lying to me, but first of all I could never picture this person doing that, and second it'd make everything too hard for me to wrap my head around. I trust her.

[Starwulf]

I think the only advice I could possibly give, is probably some you don't want to hear. I think you should see a psychiatrist(or psychologist, I never know which one is the proper one). You sound like you may be suffering from more then just Depression, at the very least, these panic attacks should be addressed, there ARE Anxiety medications out there, my wife was on them for a while. You need to take some "Me" time, and figure yourself out. Once you do that, then maybe go talk to her. But doing so now, in your self-admitted confused state, is not going to do any good, and it may end up causing irreparable damage to you and hers friendship.

So, TL;DR: Go to a shrink and talk to them. Print your post here out if you feel like you couldn't say the right things to them, but you really should talk to one. I almost kind of feel like this is the kind of thing that the playground isn't really equipped to handle.

[ufo]

Thanks for the advice - I didn't mention it because I didn't want to seem like I crave sympathy, but I've been to a psychologist (who diagnosed me with a depression), but later (after the break-up) I went to a psychiatrist, who cleared up that I didn't actually suffer from a depression, but rather a depressive reaction. She also took me off medication.

I didn't get into the details, but the fundamental difference is that depressions are chronic, and depressive reactions are not - in turn, though, depressive reactions are somewhat less predictable in their chronology.

The problem is that psychologists and psychiatrists analyze and diagnose, and when they step in to help, they may only do so with medication. And even if it were not the case, I can afford neither those nor a therapist. But don't worry about the Playground being equipped to handle this - the worst that can happen is that we are not together, so, well. Whatever happens, it's status quo or upwards. Put another way (and sorry if it sounds overly dramatic), I have nothing to lose.

EDIT: **** me, I sound like a delusional ****. I have to admit you're right about the "you probably don't want to hear this"-thing when I ignore the implication that it's not meant to be. I think I'm very afraid that if I go on, I may have wasted the chance I had to make things different.

And anyways, it's not that I haven't tried moving on, taking some time to myself and so on, but the conditions for doing so are completely beyond my control. I live in a place where my generation's activities amount to little more than drinking and smoking, I have no way to meet new people because there are never social occassions that are organized beyond groups of already close-knit friends (beyond bar-hopping - not really an activity that I enjoy or would use to meet new friends). I don't want to force myself to fall in love with someone else to get over her, and at some level I probably don't want to get over her, because I really like her. As in, I'm not just in love but I think she is a really interesting and nice person - at least that's the impression I got through half a year of being lovers.

[Rawhide]

psychiatrist(or psychologist, I never know which one is the proper one)

It's an oversimplification (and specific lines might vary by country), but think of it this way: A psychologist is qualified to treat any mental illnesses you may have through therapy, while a psychiatrist is qualified to treat any mental illnesses you may have through medication (as well as therapy).

This is not to say that psychiatrists wouldn't also use therapy, they would, but quite often you would be referred to both an ongoing psychologist and an intermittent psychiatrist if you need medication. The two would communicate between each other (with your permission) about how you are going and the treatment they feel you need.

[Glass Mouse]

Sorry to bother you guys again.

I just need someone to tell me to stop coming up with increasingly convoluted plans to spend some time with this guy and just go and ask him to spend time with me? Contingency plans are all very well, but this is getting ridiculous...

Seconding Serpentine here. Just ask him - it's more efficient and the succes rate is much higher

Spoiler

Show

Hey Playground, long time no see. I think it's two or more years since I last used the forums here.

I'm sorry in advance if this post becomes tediously long. Especially since I'm not sure what advice I'm looking for. Writing these things is a very emotional and spontaneous process for me, and what I think is gonna happen is that I will describe every detail of the situation. I just hope that some of you will take the time to read it through, and hopefully you have some advice.

I'm not sure when it all started, but I guess it must've been a year ago, or something like that. You see, what happened was that I fell in love. Not really as dramatic as it sounds, I developed a fancy for a girl that I went to boarding school with.

(It's probably not important, but keep in mind that I live in Denmark where boarding schools are rather different than most other countries. I guess the most important difference is that we only spend one or two years at boarding school.)

We were friends for some time and would often sleep together (which was not a big deal, because we lived down the corridor from eachother) and spend entire days doing nothing together. Basically, besides doing regular friend-stuff, we seemed to just enjoy each other's presence. It was like this for some time, until one evening when we were laying besides each other, I kissed her. It was very awkward, especially the part where she went "Uuh... what was that?"

We both cried a lot that night. She told me that she also thought our friendship was developing in that direction, but she was scared that something would come between us and that if we became lovers and later fell apart our friendship (which we both cherished) would be unsalvageable. Keep in mind, though, that she said she was scared of this happening, but definitely did not reject me - she needed time to think. The days went on and things became a bit less awkward between us. Thankfully, we are both openminded persons, so we could talk about all this without it getting awkward.

A week or two later, we had both been taking a few dancing lessons and the first snow had just fallen. We decided that if the sky was clear, we would waltz in the snow under the starry sky (listening to this). It sounds like a very romantic setup, but it was actually really spontaneous. It was, however, also very romantic. That same night, when we were sleeping next to each other, we started kissing and holding each other very close.

I guess this is where it started. We were both reluctant to call each other lovers, and the relationship was sort of secret. Not for any reason other than privacy, really. We preferred people to think of us as "Peter" and "Puk", not "Peter and Puk".

A few weeks passed where my world was continously rocked by the feeling of being in deep, deep love. I could feel that it blossomed now that we were together. Then our relationship became more a part of our everyday life - not in a negative way, though. Our feelings just settled, I guess, and things got stable.

Well, of course we fighted from time to time. This is the only relationship I've been in, so I can't really say whether our fighting was serious or just felt like it because I loved her. But we always stopped fighting, and for me it felt like we understood each other a little better every time.

The school year was starting to come to an end. At this point, everybody knew we were together, but we still made as little a deal of it as possible. We lived in two completely seperate parts of the country, and we talked superficially about what we would do when the school ended, but we never really took a serious conversation.

Then, a month or so before the end of school, I was suddenly expelled for cannabis consumption.

From here on, the chronology may not be completely correct. See, a lot of things happened following this. I started getting very severe anxiety attacks and many things became very hard to overcome. For the next few weeks, she and I were together a few times and we talked about moving together (even though we were definitely much younger than people typically are when they do that). The plans never really became very serious, mostly because my family refused to help me because they thought it was stupid. But we kept seeing each other, and when spring break came, we were together a lot and for several weeks at a time.

I think this is when I really started loving her, a lot. We would borrow her sister's apartment and just go about our lives (together), doing everyday stuff together or coming up with crazy plans for fun things to do. Things were not all fine and dandy, though. My anxiety would sometimes cause situations between us, because I would be gripped by a sudden fear that she did not love me, or that if I said the wrong thing she would hate me. As a result, whenever the anxiety came over me, I would became vague, unimpressive and undecisive which could irritate her to no end, until we could clear up what had happened. At other times, she would be gripped by an inexplicable hate for me, and she would be completely devastated because she really wanted to be with me.

Each time, we worked it out and were happy together again. Spring break ended, and I was diagnosed with a depression and put on medication. It was the beginning of the school year, and neither of us had much time - remember, we lived far from each other, so we only really had opportunity to see each other in free weekends. We saw each other in one weekend after school started, and then we didn't spend time together for about a month.

Then, we finally were together in her sister's apartment. This was in September 2011, I think. Friday, things seemed okay. We met at the rail station, we kissed and went home. I thought something felt amiss, but she has always been a very omnious person and didn't make a great display of her feelings, good or bad. So I thought it was nothing. Then, Saturday, something happened. I don't remember why, but I got an anxiety attack while she wasn't nearby and I went to the balcony to cry, because I didn't think there was reason for her to worry.

Well, she came to me while I was sitting there, crying. We talked a little about the things that made me anxious, and then she broke it to me. She said that even though she loved me as much as she had ever done, she was no longer in love. At the time, I didn't really understand this. We cried together, and when I asked her what it would mean to us, she said that it does not have to mean anything. So I guess I just thought she meant that she wasn't as crazy about me as always, and to be fair we had been together for a few months, so I thought it made sense for her not to feel butterflies in her tummy whenver she saw me.

We went to sleep that night, and it was very weird. I should mention, that sex was never really something we talked much about. We just slept together, started cuddling and eventually things would "heat up" if we were in the mood. Well, we cuddled, and started kissing passionately while she sat on me. And suddenly, she laid down next to me and did nothing. I started kissing her, and even though she returned my kisses, I could definitely feel her restricting me from, eh, "going down", as they say.

I didn't know what it meant. Something like that had never happened before. Something was very wrong, and I could definitely feel it. I almost had an anxiety attack, but convinced myself that she was probably just menstruating and went to sleep.

The next day went by, and the time came for me to head home. She was accompanying me to the rail station, and on our way down from her sister's apartment I kissed her in the elevator. Well, I tried to. I could feel her lips not moving and I saw her expression not changing. On the way to the rail station we walked through a park, and I said to her that sometimes, it is hard to believe that she loves me when I am the only one taking the incentive to kiss and to be together.

And, well, this is where the bomb was dropped. Take in mind, she didn't break up with me. She told me what she had told me the day before - she loved me, but was no longer in love. I really don't remember the conversation much, as I broke down completely. We sat on the grass for hours and talked. She said she wanted me to stay another night so she could be sure that I was okay, but I told her that I couldn't wake up next to her tomorrow.

She walked me to the rail station and I left. We were both in tears.

At this point, I dropped out of the gymnasium (American equivelant is High School, I think). We would talk a few times, though it was mostly me calling her during my anxiety attacks (that, at this point, were frequently actually panic attacks) when my rationality wasn't exactly on it's high. As I mentioned, she is an openminded person and she was ready to talk to me even though we were not together. This stopped, though, and for a long time we didn't talk. I started my education again, but kept getting sicker and sicker.

Now, I guess it must be a month ago or a bit more, when I first wrote to her again. I don't know why I wrote (and I wrote that, too), I just needed to tell her what was going on in my life and how I felt. As always, she was ready to listen. At this point, I wasn't sure if I was still in love with her.

What happened though, was that now that we were in contact again, I couldn't stop myself from writing her again, in a bout of irrationality during a panic attack. It's hard to explain, but I read the e-mail the next day and it looked like the ramblings of a madman - I don't know if you have ever had a panic attack, but when it happens, it doesn't feel as if you are feeling bad right now, it feels as though everything is bad, always. And I had tried to get the point across to her.

What made this last e-mail different wasn't her response (she didn't respond, actually, but when I later wrote that I was sorry, she said that she just hadn't known what to write), but what it made me realise.

You see, for a long time I felt very tired when I was in school. It was strange, because in the morning I would feel fresh. Then, every day when I came home and I stood over my bed, about to take a nap, I suddenly realised that I wasn't tired. I was longing for my bed, yes, but I was longing to share it with her. To be with her, for us to touch each other and talk to each other - and if you will forgive the romantic babble, I was longing to feel whole again.

So I wrote to her. I wrote that I had realized that I was still in love with her. It's hard to describe what I wrote, really, but it was typical romantic stuff, and I finished off by asking her if she was willing to give us another chance.

She wrote that she was really sorry to have to do this again, but that it would ruin us both if we were together. This was two days ago.


Playground, I just don't know what to do. I am so ****ing devastated by all this. For the past (almost) half a year, I have been crying every night I didn't go to sleep intoxicated and everything has felt completely wrong. Like I'm in a reality where I definitely do not belong. I still love her very much, have always done so and I have no reason to do otherwise. Yet everything has changed around me and my life has grinded to a halt.

I'm not sure what I want. I mean, of course I want to be with her - that is the whole point. But I don't want to pressure her, and I don't want her to do anything out of guilt. Yet, it feels so wrong that things are like they are - I just can't ignore the feeling that something is out of place, that there is something I need to do or something I have done wrong that I must change. After that last exchange it feels as if the matter is more pressing than ever. I realized, that until that point I had been writing to her in the hopes that I would somehow come to utter the magic words that would set everything right for her, and I have realized that this means so much to me that I have nothing to lose.

Having written this and looked it through, I see that there's not much you guys can respond to. I think that I'm just hoping that one of you have the magic words handy. I realize that you don't know her, and you don't know me, but if you have any ideas about what I could do or say it would mean much to me. I know it sounds like I'm trying to manipulate her, and if you suspect it is what is happening, there are no hard feelings if you don't want to help me. I just can't stress enough that this feels wrong, that maybe she is misinterpreting her feelings - especially when she says that she loves me, but is not in love.

Of course, none of this takes into account that she may be flat out lying to me, but first of all I could never picture this person doing that, and second it'd make everything too hard for me to wrap my head around. I trust her.

I think Starwulf and Rawhide are right, you need someone who is more equipped to handle this than a bunch of forum geeks. I'm not sure, but I think you can get a referral to a psychologist from your doctor if you have actual panic attacks (or, according to this, if you have light to moderate depression).

On the actual subject, I just want to say that "I love you, but I'm not in love with you" usually means that the person cares deeply for you, but doesn't feel the chemistry necessary for sex and other physical contact. Basically, a very genuine friend speech.
Of course, in any specific case, it could be anything else, but it sounds like it might be the case here.

In any case, you need to shift your attention from getting her back (sorry, but if she says it's over, it's over) to getting yourself better. I can't tell if you're doing this, but if you're using her as a cushion or escape way, you need to stop. Build yourself up, get happy and comfortable with your own life without her. You can try again then, but until you reach that point, trying to get back together is no fair to either of you.

And look into a psychologist, okay?

[Coidzor]

If you need a fire under your butt, you could make your ringtone this song and arrange to be called while you're with him. Or something similar for getting it played.

[Rawhide]

*Arise, lost post*

Please don't do this. Not for you, not for anyone else. Wait until it fixes itself normally.

If you wish to view the lost post, hit reply but do not reply. It will be in the preview section.

[Worira]

I know I get awfully sick of checking a topic for the 15th time in a row because the forum still thinks it has an unread post.

[Rawhide]

I know I get awfully sick of checking a topic for the 15th time in a row because the forum still thinks it has an unread post.

As do I. Still, do not do this.

[term1nally s1ck]

I've done it a few times before, I always delete the post once there's a second post of actual content on the page.