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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by Serpentine View Post
    In Indonesia, if you look someone in the eye when you're talking with them, it means you don't trust 'em.
    Really? That's fascinating... I would feel terribly uncomfortable in Indonesia then, I hate it with a passion when people I'm having a conversation with don't look me in the eyes
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmageddon View Post
    I hate it with a passion when people I'm having a conversation with don't look me in the eyes
    Some people like me, who don't look people in the eye, learn tricks to make it SEEM like we are. I look at people's noses and mouths. The mouth so I can lip-read and use that feedback to correctly understand the other person. The nose so I seem to be looking at their eyes. People never seem bothered, I guess they think I'm really looking at their eyes.

    It's easier to learn to "fool" upper-body language. But that's not all there is. Look at where people's legs/feet are pointed to (not something that's possibe to do in all scenarios, and definitely not something that you should be obvious about doing). If they're pointed towards you, the person is interested in you/what-you're-saying. Otherwise... they probably want to leave.

  3. - Top - End - #903
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Some people like me, who don't look people in the eye, learn tricks to make it SEEM like we are. I look at people's noses and mouths. The mouth so I can lip-read and use that feedback to correctly understand the other person. The nose so I seem to be looking at their eyes. People never seem bothered, I guess they think I'm really looking at their eyes.

    It's easier to learn to "fool" upper-body language. But that's not all there is. Look at where people's legs/feet are pointed to (not something that's possibe to do in all scenarios, and definitely not something that you should be obvious about doing). If they're pointed towards you, the person is interested in you/what-you're-saying. Otherwise... they probably want to leave.
    The legs thing is only noticeable if their legs are free to move comfortably. Sometimes there's only a few ways you can point your legs and still sit comfortably.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Honestly, eye contact is such a fundamental part of human social evolution I don't think "faking it" is possible. However, looking elsewhere on the face is a perfectly suitable substitution - personally, I'd rather that than intense focus on the eyes. Hazyshade :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by term1nally s1ck View Post
    The legs thing is only noticeable if their legs are free to move comfortably. Sometimes there's only a few ways you can point your legs and still sit comfortably.
    I think that's more of a standing-while-talking thing. When seated usually your legs are under the table. Or if it's a bench or something then they'll be in front of you, not pointed towards the person. When people are seated, I look for when they shift their weight forward as a sign that they're preparing to stand up.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    I believe the usual context for the "foot-pointing" thing is when sitting on a stool, say at a bar, or in a chair in a context without a table (some cafes, for example).
    Does anyone have actual evidence for that? I've heard it a lot, but not by anything much I'd consider reliable (as great as Coupling is...).

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Some people like me, who don't look people in the eye, learn tricks to make it SEEM like we are. I look at people's noses and mouths. The mouth so I can lip-read and use that feedback to correctly understand the other person. The nose so I seem to be looking at their eyes. People never seem bothered, I guess they think I'm really looking at their eyes.

    It's easier to learn to "fool" upper-body language. But that's not all there is. Look at where people's legs/feet are pointed to (not something that's possibe to do in all scenarios, and definitely not something that you should be obvious about doing). If they're pointed towards you, the person is interested in you/what-you're-saying. Otherwise... they probably want to leave.
    To be honest I never give much credit to these body language tricks, I mean sure there are some obvious things you can tell from body language but the more subtle hints always sounded like complete nonesense.
    Mostly because I tried to analyze me at random times during a conversation and usually when I make a particular gesture or stand in a particular pose it doesn't mean what they say it means...
    Some exemple:
    I scratch my ear or rub my nose when I try to focus on a detailed memory, not when I'm lying.
    I point my feet towards the person I'm talking to when I'm angry or otherwise hostile, usually I sit with my legs stretched and crossed or open with feet pointing diagonally when I'm enjoying a conversation.
    I cross my arms when I'm relaxed, not when I feel thretened/defensive, in which case my arms are probably on a nearby surface with fist closed.

    Even then none of this is absolute, so... I'm the only one that doesn't have 100% predictable body language? I don't think so... Also forgive me if I got the "stereotypical" interpretation of body language wrong, as I said I don't pay much attention to it.
    Last edited by Kalmageddon; 2012-03-08 at 04:51 AM.
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    I think there's only a very few things that are universal (I'd have to pick that book up again), but what I'm trying to say is... it's FAR easier to control the more visible parts of body language (seeing to the eye, etc), than it is to control parts of the body language we're much less conscious of. Many of us will learn to control our hand gestures, our eyes and our face to an extent. But not all of us will think of including the feet in that. So it may not be universal that turning one's feet towards someone means interest... but it's more common than people looking at you meaning interest. And at any rate... whichever body language is displayed requires the context to be properly interpreted. There was this book called "What Every Body is Saying" that had some really nice tips about how to use context to interpret body language.

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    I see what you mean, I just don't think it's worth the effort to understand all kinds of body languages, but that's just me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalmageddon View Post
    I see what you mean, I just don't think it's worth the effort to understand all kinds of body languages, but that's just me.
    Oh, but you already do! Most of the body language cues are normally picked up unconsciously. It is only when you wish to gain a more profound understanding, or when you have issues recognizing them in the first place that you'd need to bring them to conscious attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Oh, but you already do! Most of the body language cues are normally picked up unconsciously. It is only when you wish to gain a more profound understanding, or when you have issues recognizing them in the first place that you'd need to bring them to conscious attention.
    Whee autism spectrum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    Whee autism spectrum.
    Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if I fall in that spectrum too. Online screening tests show me to be highly into it, but I'm also pretty functional, so it's a really blurry line! How I wish I could afford being diagnosed as in or out of the spectrum, for sure!

    In the meantime, I try to bring that kind of knowledge that doesn't come naturally to me to the conscious. And really, that book is great.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if I fall in that spectrum too. Online screening tests show me to be highly into it, but I'm also pretty functional, so it's a really blurry line! How I wish I could afford being diagnosed as in or out of the spectrum, for sure!

    In the meantime, I try to bring that kind of knowledge that doesn't come naturally to me to the conscious. And really, that book is great.
    I'm very high-functioning for my diagnosis, which is Asperger's, but in a few months (or whenever the DMS-V is published) it'll just be Autism Spectrum Disorder or whatever they're folding it all into. My mum was really good about teaching me normal-people cues and whatnot while I was growing up. Some of them have become so habitual it's not even really conscious anymore, which is neat.
    Jude P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if I fall in that spectrum too. Online screening tests show me to be highly into it, but I'm also pretty functional, so it's a really blurry line! How I wish I could afford being diagnosed as in or out of the spectrum, for sure!

    In the meantime, I try to bring that kind of knowledge that doesn't come naturally to me to the conscious. And really, that book is great.
    As noparlpf suggested, being functional doesn't mean autism spectrum can't apply. I'm also in the very highly functioning, but diagnosed as ASD category. Also, having the diagnosis isn't really going to change whether or not you can deal with it. Just because someone isn't formally diagnosed with depression doesn't mean they aren't feeling depressed more often than is good for them, and a lot of the non-therapy-based treatments for depression would help them. Similarly, you don't need to be formally diagnosed with ASD to recognize some of those traits in yourself, and work on those.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueboy View Post
    As noparlpf suggested, being functional doesn't mean autism spectrum can't apply. I'm also in the very highly functioning, but diagnosed as ASD category. Also, having the diagnosis isn't really going to change whether or not you can deal with it. Just because someone isn't formally diagnosed with depression doesn't mean they aren't feeling depressed more often than is good for them, and a lot of the non-therapy-based treatments for depression would help them. Similarly, you don't need to be formally diagnosed with ASD to recognize some of those traits in yourself, and work on those.
    Though if you're still in the school system having a diagnosis can be handy.
    Jude P.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    Though if you're still in the school system having a diagnosis can be handy.
    Ah, yes, this is true. I only got my diagnosis at the end of high school. Which, had moderate use, given that I didn't need most of the accommodations I was given in college. Had the necessary accommodations in high school through other means, which didn't require a formal diagnosis, thankfully.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    Witch doctors might tell you "ooh ee ooh ah ah ting tang wallawalla bing bang", but they give you that for everything, so most of us consider it a ridiculous scam.
    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    When you're flopping about uncertainly like a Magikarp that just got sent in against a level 60 Venusaur, just go back to the basics.

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    I'm another one of the forum goers who has had an official diagnosis. Sadly, the recent increase of idiots (not saying everyone here, but most YouTube commentators fall under this) means that saying I have Asperger's is a lost cause. Most of my symptoms are gone, as I've been taught under the perfect environment for 4 years. Even eye-contact is possibly with individuals that I trust.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    Exactly. Sometimes I wonder if I fall in that spectrum too. Online screening tests show me to be highly into it, but I'm also pretty functional, so it's a really blurry line! How I wish I could afford being diagnosed as in or out of the spectrum, for sure!
    If you're not diagnosed in the spectrum, you should find someone who actually knows what Autism is. You clearly don't have Fragile X Syndrome, which my cousin does indeed have. Autism itself is very difficult to pinpoint, but Asperger's is an over-diagnosis that is very aggravating. Seeing some smartarse patrol the school spouting "HEY, I HAVE ASPERGER'S TREAT ME DIFFERENTLY!" is easily the most frustrating thing about going to public school.

    This isn't meant to shoot you down, but until they give you an official diagnosis, you're not... One of us. One of us. One of us.
    Last edited by Triscuitable; 2012-03-08 at 06:13 PM.
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    So...another update.

    I got a new girlfriend(after finally getting over my last one, I found that a girl that I had a crush on for a while now has had a crush on me for a while so...one thing lead to another...<3) and we actually have a ton in common. She even likes video games! *dies, though he's already in heaven*
    So...things are also going better with my best friend and I've actually gotten out of the sad funk that I was in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mindfreak View Post
    So...another update.

    I got a new girlfriend(after finally getting over my last one, I found that a girl that I had a crush on for a while now has had a crush on me for a while so...one thing lead to another...<3) and we actually have a ton in common. She even likes video games! *dies, though he's already in heaven*
    So...things are also going better with my best friend and I've actually gotten out of the sad funk that I was in.
    Nicely done. Congratulations are in order.

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    I personally have been diagnosed with some form of autism. In previous years, someone would visit our classes to inform my classmates about what autism is like so I wouldn't get made fun of for my odd behavior. But recently I felt like I was hiding behind a label that I could use to justify my flaws, so now I'm trying my darn best to put the blame on myself rather than "I BE AUTISTS SO I ARE FORGIVEN".

    But I think this is a Relationship topic, isn't it? Welp, I'll pitch in with a problem of my own. Situation is pretty simple: Girl I like, but I was a bit too 'forward', which put her at unease. However, I told her I'd give her some space for a while, which I did, and a few weeks later, I am now preparing a letter to confess my love with (I was originally going to dictate my message to her but a friend convinced me to go with the letter method instead). The main reason for this being that the subject just won't leave my mind, and I want to close up the subject so I can be at peace. But I won't be able to see if it works until next week, due to Springbreak.

    Now, a few questions:
    -Are there any alternatives to confessing my love to her directly that I should consider?
    -Should I apologize to her for making her feel uncomfortable, even though I told her I'd keep my distance for a while?
    -How do I stop wallowing on the damn subject?! I can't think about anything else but her and how things are going to turn out, and that's been sucking up valuable time from my days.

    Any other tips are fine with me.
    Last edited by BeethroBudkin07; 2012-03-08 at 06:50 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeethroBudkin07 View Post
    Now, a few questions:
    -Are there any alternatives to confessing my love to her directly that I should consider?
    -Should I apologize to her for making her feel uncomfortable, even though I told her I'd keep my distance for a while?
    -How do I stop wallowing on the damn subject?! I can't think about anything else but her and how things are going to turn out, and that's been sucking up valuable time from my days.

    Any other tips are fine with me.
    1. A letter is just classy. If anything, I'd stick with that. Do make sure your penmanship is up to par though, and it may be worth buying some nice parchment.

    2. Dunno. Don't really have enough information.

    3. The only easy answer is "Just do it". Terrible, right? The worst part is that you probably won't feel better about it immediately afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rogueboy View Post
    Ah, yes, this is true. I only got my diagnosis at the end of high school. Which, had moderate use, given that I didn't need most of the accommodations I was given in college. Had the necessary accommodations in high school through other means, which didn't require a formal diagnosis, thankfully.
    90% or more of the "accommodations" I got in high school were utterly useless to me and in fact often detracted from my schoolwork. (Was given extra time for CAPT (state test), at the cost of a class period. Had had over 100 on every test in that class (World History) to that point. Next test: C.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mindfreak View Post
    So...another update.

    I got a new girlfriend(after finally getting over my last one, I found that a girl that I had a crush on for a while now has had a crush on me for a while so...one thing lead to another...<3) and we actually have a ton in common. She even likes video games! *dies, though he's already in heaven*
    So...things are also going better with my best friend and I've actually gotten out of the sad funk that I was in.
    Congrats!

    Quote Originally Posted by BeethroBudkin07 View Post
    I personally have been diagnosed with some form of autism. In previous years, someone would visit our classes to inform my classmates about what autism is like so I wouldn't get made fun of for my odd behavior. But recently I felt like I was hiding behind a label that I could use to justify my flaws, so now I'm trying my darn best to put the blame on myself rather than "I BE AUTISTS SO I ARE FORGIVEN".

    But I think this is a Relationship topic, isn't it? Welp, I'll pitch in with a problem of my own. Situation is pretty simple: Girl I like, but I was a bit too 'forward', which put her at unease. However, I told her I'd give her some space for a while, which I did, and a few weeks later, I am now preparing a letter to confess my love with (I was originally going to dictate my message to her but a friend convinced me to go with the letter method instead). The main reason for this being that the subject just won't leave my mind, and I want to close up the subject so I can be at peace. But I won't be able to see if it works until next week, due to Springbreak.

    Now, a few questions:
    -Are there any alternatives to confessing my love to her directly that I should consider?
    -Should I apologize to her for making her feel uncomfortable, even though I told her I'd keep my distance for a while?
    -How do I stop wallowing on the damn subject?! I can't think about anything else but her and how things are going to turn out, and that's been sucking up valuable time from my days.

    Any other tips are fine with me.
    I would suggest getting addicted to something and then quitting cold turkey. Takes your mind off the emotions.

    Edit: Don't actually do that it's probably a bad idea.
    Last edited by noparlpf; 2012-03-08 at 06:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeethroBudkin07 View Post
    Now, a few questions:
    -Are there any alternatives to confessing my love to her directly that I should consider?
    -Should I apologize to her for making her feel uncomfortable, even though I told her I'd keep my distance for a while?
    -How do I stop wallowing on the damn subject?! I can't think about anything else but her and how things are going to turn out, and that's been sucking up valuable time from my days.
    Step 1: Don't "confess your love." Tell her that you have a crush on her, and go from there. It's off-putting when someone declares love from the beginning.
    Step 2: Apologizing, though in more of a "hey, sorry I was too forward before" than anything more formal, is probably a good idea. It'll let her know that you recognize that you made an error (and remember to put it on yourself here) and want to change that behavior.
    Step 3: Generally, in person is preferable to a letter. It's harder, yes, but that's part of why it's more effective. If it has to be a letter, keep it short and to the point.

    As to the wallowing? Do something about it. It's not going to disappear just because you want it to. Focus on other things to distract yourself until you can do something about it, and then do it. It'll only be a relief, even if she says she's not interested.

    Opinions will vary (and have already done so). Take them as opinion, and do what you feel comfortable with.

    Quote Originally Posted by noparlpf View Post
    90% or more of the "accommodations" I got in high school were utterly useless to me and in fact often detracted from my schoolwork. (Was given extra time for CAPT (state test), at the cost of a class period. Had had over 100 on every test in that class (World History) to that point. Next test: C.)
    Yeah, accommodations that you don't need aren't helpful. Fortunately, mine were set up that I had to request them if I wanted them, which let me only take advantage of them when I actually needed them. Also, the counselor at my school was awesome, and would help make sure that the accommodations didn't interfere with other schoolwork. Obviously, things vary a lot, depending on the infrastructure you get/have to work with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotchland View Post
    1. A letter is just classy. If anything, I'd stick with that. Do make sure your penmanship is up to par though, and it may be worth buying some nice parchment.
    Would a 'print on white paper' format be acceptable?
    2. Dunno. Don't really have enough information.
    To explain all of this further, one day I chose to pop the question because at this point I was having doubts. She said I was talking to her a bit too much, and that made her uncomfortable. That's when I said: "Well, I guess I'll leave you alone for a week or so. That ok?" and she said some form of thanks.

    I waited through the week, and then through the next one (because it was exam week), but on Thursday, right before our last exam which we both had in the same class, I wished her luck on the exam. Then, during the next few weeks, I barely even talked to her, save for maybe one or two occasions. I would believe that my acts were forgiven, but I can't be 100% sure about that, so I feel I should apologize.
    3. The only easy answer is "Just do it". Terrible, right? The worst part is that you probably won't feel better about it immediately afterwards.
    Well, that would be easy said, easy done, but I have to wait until school starts again. I have her e-mail but I don't really want to use it, since I'm afraid that might be considered a wee bit too close to stalking. And that would be wrong.

    (By the way, I only have her e-mail because I sent to all of last year's classmates a copy of a story I had written for them throughout the year.)
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    @BeethroBudkin07: Wait. How well do you actually know her?

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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    We've been in the same class last year. And I was rather well-known by that class too, mainly due to the aforementioned story I wrote about the group, so I can claim she knows a bit about me and I know a bit about her. However, I wouldn't quite say we're friends; mostly acquaintances.

    And the main reason I was being too forward previously was because I was attempting to know her better, something that didn't go too well.
    If you want to see it, here's my Mario fancomic: Wanderers of the Mushroom Kingdom.
    Status: Cancelled. :(

  27. - Top - End - #927
    Troll in the Playground
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    Jan 2012

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    In that case, a letter is probably inadvisable. Try meeting her in the middle. Maybe a coffee date?

  28. - Top - End - #928
    Colossus in the Playground
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    Jun 2006
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    Dinosaur Museum aw yisss.
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Um... Maybe I'm reading it wrong or there's just not enough information, but if just "talking too much" is enough to make her uncomfortable enough for you to say you'll leave her alone for a while, I'm afraid writing a love letter to her will just make her feel so awkward around you even a friendship's likely to be out of the question. What exactly is your goal with this letter? From what you've said here, it looks to me like she's given you reasonably big signs that she's not interested, so I wouldn't get your hopes up too much... Unless there was more, or more context, to that?

  29. - Top - End - #929
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueboy View Post
    As noparlpf suggested, being functional doesn't mean autism spectrum can't apply. I'm also in the very highly functioning, but diagnosed as ASD category. Also, having the diagnosis isn't really going to change whether or not you can deal with it. Just because someone isn't formally diagnosed with depression doesn't mean they aren't feeling depressed more often than is good for them, and a lot of the non-therapy-based treatments for depression would help them. Similarly, you don't need to be formally diagnosed with ASD to recognize some of those traits in yourself, and work on those.
    Oh, I would only look for a diagnosis to understand myself better. It helps me deal with things when I know as much about them as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Triscuitable View Post
    I'm another one of the forum goers who has had an official diagnosis. Sadly, the recent increase of idiots (not saying everyone here, but most YouTube commentators fall under this) means that saying I have Asperger's is a lost cause. Most of my symptoms are gone, as I've been taught under the perfect environment for 4 years. Even eye-contact is possibly with individuals that I trust.



    If you're not diagnosed in the spectrum, you should find someone who actually knows what Autism is. You clearly don't have Fragile X Syndrome, which my cousin does indeed have. Autism itself is very difficult to pinpoint, but Asperger's is an over-diagnosis that is very aggravating. Seeing some smartarse patrol the school spouting "HEY, I HAVE ASPERGER'S TREAT ME DIFFERENTLY!" is easily the most frustrating thing about going to public school.

    This isn't meant to shoot you down, but until they give you an official diagnosis, you're not... One of us. One of us. One of us.
    I just wonder. I do have quite a few things on the spectrum, whatever it is I have. I'd like to get someone who knows about it to take a good look so I can understand it all better. DEFINITELY not to yell "OMG I ASPERGERS OR AUTIST OR WHATEVER! TREAT ME GUD!"

    Quote Originally Posted by rogueboy View Post
    Step 1: Don't "confess your love." Tell her that you have a crush on her, and go from there. It's off-putting when someone declares love from the beginning.
    OMG. YES. THIS. SO MUCH THIS. It is very, very creepy.

  30. - Top - End - #930
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    Feb 2010
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    Neurotypicalville, WA

    Default Re: Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

    Quote Originally Posted by bluewind95 View Post
    I just wonder. I do have quite a few things on the spectrum, whatever it is I have. I'd like to get someone who knows about it to take a good look so I can understand it all better. DEFINITELY not to yell "OMG I ASPERGERS OR AUTIST OR WHATEVER! TREAT ME GUD!"
    I do not recommend Psychiatrists from the Children's Hospital.
    Steam username is Triscuitable.
    I got VAC banned in COD: Ghosts for using an FOV changer.
    I try not to think of how sad that is.

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