Relationship Woes and Advice 21: Time To Go Bar-Hopping

[Weezer]

I would go with a single, non rose flower. Normally a flower is a bit much, but it is Valentines Day. Try to figure out what her favorite flower is, best course with that might be to ask her friends, friends can be an invaluable resource for subtly finding out information. But definitely avoid roses, they are way too generic.

[Winter_Wolf]

Do it old school: a handful of daisies and a half eaten bar of chocolate. Okay, so it's like 3rd grade old school. You'll probably need some witty comment to pull it off, or a date with a really good sense of humor.

Or just go with daisies. I'm surprised, looking back, at the number of girls I know who've told me that daisies are their favorites.

[Scarlet Knight]

Compromise: bring her a chocolate rose.

[Delwugor]

Compromise: bring her a chocolate rose.

I got Mrs. D one about 5 years ago and it is still on the entertainment center. It still looks nice when dusted off, but I wouldn't vouch for the taste now.

[Rawhide]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

[Moonshadow]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

I was wondering about that myself.

And to be honest, if a girl is choosing Valentine's Day under the premise that she thinks she'll get free stuff, then that isn't really the kind of girl I'd like to date...

[Starwulf]

Woah. Who merged these threads? This is confusing...

It's Valentine's Day, of course you should get her something. She has chosen Valentine's Day deliberately for some reason, and that signals that she thinks that the day is in some way special.

I would recommend a Valentine's Day themed card, a heart shaped box of chocolates to share, and a single red rose.

You're telling me, I was staring at the forums page and thinking "wth, I never posted in the relationship advice thread".

[Vacant]

On gifts, remember that everything you give someone is something, inevitably, that they're taking from you. Remember that in the best and worst ways. There are some kinds of things, especially flowers, I don't give because they're better not taken, roses especially. Never give some colors of roses unless you know what you mean and you mean it. If it's not too late, you don't know and can't mean it.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that some things only count when it's hopeless to establish it mattered when all other signifiers indicate otherwise. All they do earlier is cheapen that significance, which is the worst thing when that time does come, as it always will.

Really, all I can say is to never hope for anything to last and do your best not to care about temporality. The truth is that love is often and justifiably connected to dying, in that both are the worse the longer they take. I'll have a whisky and a good game of cards every time, which is to say nothing negative about romantic relations, just that it's tragic and almost hateful in a sense to apply a delusion of permanence to something which is and must be inherently ephemeral. Gifts are signifiers as words are, and to give them lightly and without understanding can be a grievous mistake. Do not give laurel leaves unless you intend to wait at a tree for eternity; do not give roses unless you goddamn mean it. Presence and absence aren't delineated enough, in isolation, to create the sorrow of heartbreak, but lies and the truth are.

[loopy]

So this is what happens when your flatmate decides to spend three hours writing up an in-depth guide to dating you. (Note: we have never dated, have no intention of dating, everyone seems to assume we are together already though, so the issue doesn't come up much)

Spoiler

Show

An executive summary to dating the confusing enigma that is Owen - sources of information include: living with Owen, hearing him talk about his previous relationships, laughing at his foibles and spending way too much time on the phone for him. For those who want to wade into the dating waters with ‘loopy’ I give you this…

One- Owen likes his private time

Though Owen is seen as a social and outgoing creature at home he will often disappear into his bedroom/cave/dungeon/computer room or basically where Owen’s bed and laptop reside. At first Owen will be unaware when his private time is being intruded upon but once he becomes aware of it he starts to become aware of every time there is an incursion. The automatic reaction of a partner is to ‘chase’ and try to bridge the gap, but this has the opposite result and will make Owen feel like he is obligated to socialise and will come off as clingy. Owen will try to resist these feelings but like a mother who is constantly popping her head around the door the gentle intrusions become a source of resentment.

Two- Owen reacts better to a mildly disinterested partner rather than an overly interested partner

This links with the point above, but a mildly disinterested (do not confuse with ‘cold bitch) partner forces Owen to chase them. It makes them seem more valuable, illusive, interesting in his eyes and will keep the romance energised. On the other hand a partner who continues to be overly interested becomes a partner who will perceptively intrude on his social life and will appear as to need him, rather than want him. Owen seems to like to continually prove himself to a partner, the challenge of the chase if you will. If the partner is overly interested then the race has already been won and some of the glamour will be lost from interactions within the relationship.

It’s sounds too simple to say that the best way to keep Owen interested is to ignore him, but it is (of course within reason). A bit of a gap between responding to texts and a few nights where the partner is too busy to meet up will renew lagging interest.

Three- Owen respects a parter with an independent and flourishing social life

Expanding from the points above, Owen likes to feel wanted rather than needed. This means he is attracted to a partner with a successful social life, developed group of friends and interests that lie outside of him and the relationship. It keeps the relationship interesting and adds vitality as there are external interactions that lead for good fodder in conversations. A ‘flourishing social life’ tends to go hand in hand with an independent partner that he has to continually prove himself to and this is how you keep him interested.

Four- Owen is not a morning person

Owen will not function for about an hour after waking and is really hard to wake up, I know as I have tripped over his feet before when he was crashing on the couch and he didn’t wake up. If you want Owen in a good mood it is easier to wake him with a back scratch and a can of coke, the caffeine rush will speed up the time it takes to get something sensible out of him.

Five- Owen is a sucker for the innocent face

You know that look that you practice, where your face is angled downward and you look up at someone with wide eyes, through your lashes. Perhaps nervously tucking a stray bit of hair behind your ear. You don’t practice it? Ok, well as Owen’s girlfriend you should start now. A white dress wouldn’t go awry, slightly dishevelled hair and barely there make-up with plenty of mascara would be a plus. Think girl next door, with a wild vixen as her split personality but they haven’t been formerly introduced yet.

Six- Owen will tell the same story quite a few times

Though Owen won’t mind if you make him aware you have heard the story before it’s free social points to laugh at the same joke again. It also means you won’t have to pay half as much attention.

Seven- Owen likes to sometimes talk about Owen, or have other people talk about Owen

If you find Owen as becoming a little disinterested in a conversation, sometimes it is good to lead the conversation back to a topic about Owen; such as writing a guide on how to date Owen. You’ll find this will generally increase his alertness and joviality several fold.

Eight- Owen will often mention things about himself, not out of self interest, but to get the other to respond in turn

It’s a bit of an English trait (and since Owen has family from the UK) that it’s rude to ask direct questions. Instead participants, in this case Owen, will refer to themselves in the hope that the respondent will reveal something in turn. Rather than ask someone how they felt about a movie, their day, a song and in particular more personal topics, Owen will put forward his own opinions and feelings with the aim to elicit the same information from them.

This will may come off as self interested but in fact Owen is interested in the other persons opinions/feeling/life but it trying to avoid rudeness by not directly inquiring.

Nine- Nerdy/Geeky/Quirky attributes will score points with Owen

Interests that score high points: Dungeons and Dragons, Firefly, Black Books, Star Wars movies and a distaste of the prequels, Star Wars clothing – think C3P0 bikini’s, Stargate, Harry Potter references in conversation, Pixar (back to cute and innocent), Dresden Files, Dr Horrible’s Sing-a-long blog

Ten- Owen often does not like his hair, helping him pick our hats is a great way to get him out of the house sooner

Owen will generally go out hatless only for the first few weeks after a haircut and will continue to hide it after that. A girlfriend has two choices, style his hair so his fringe is straight but isn’t ‘flat’ or to save time, pick out his hat. It will have to match his clothing choice or you are back into indecision-land again.

Eleven- Owen is addicted to Coca Cola, keep him well stocked and his computer handy and he won’t leave the house

This also helps with him not being a morning person, see points above. Giving him a can of coke and turning on his computer so he can see the login screen for The Old Republic or his latest game, will tend to distract him from leaving the room. It will also prep him for his ‘private time’ (gaming time) meaning you can leave him alone in the room, do your own thing and later on in the day when he is feeling social you can hang out when it’s a convenient time for you.

Twelve- If Owen seems to have lagging energy at a club or event, if suitable, pass him finger lights

- Note- may not be suitable at weddings as he may probably use them anyway and will try to distract the photographer with his shuffling

Also, a good investment are the gloves with the lights embedded in the tips of the fingers, he broke his last pair. A girl who was interested in Owen may see this as a useful gift in the near future.

‘Ok, Owen, you happy with that plug?… Well I don’t know if someone will buy it for you… Well I did mention it. Fine, put a link for a page selling it on your facebook. Try eBay. I don’t know, probably one under $50, I don’t think most girls would spend more than that. No, the one in black is way better, that way in the dark it looks like the lights are floating.’

Thirteen- Owen is big into physical contact early on in a relationship, but this may reduce, this does not mean you should chase him to fill the void

Owen is physically affectionate with many people, its a thing non-huggers are eventually forced into getting used to, and then forced to convert into hugging and eventual

‘mush-bags’. *Glares at Owen* But as you can see with Owen being a social person who values his private time, it also means when spending extended social contact with a person he may physically withdraw as well.

This can always be a sign that Owen is putting a safe bit of distance into the relationship as he is feeling a little overwhelmed. Girls in the past have reacted by hugging more, clinging more and that will only lead to more detachment on the part of Owen. Pulling back as well and allowing him that bit of space will make him feel secure in the relationship again. It’s part of wanting to continue chasing a girl, when in doubt mildly disinterested is often the way to go as this will make Owen start chasing again. It’s a way he can feel in emotional control, it’s only his emotions on the line, rather than being responsible and culpable for the emotions of someone else because that will start him over-thinking. He’ll worry he doesn’t like them enough, he’ll worry they’re only interested because they can’t get someone else, he’ll worry they’ll get more clingy, he’ll worry if he stops liking them he’ll hurt them, that will start him worrying about whether he does actually like them… you can see where I am going.

Fourteen- Owen may be having a bad day just because his friend is having a bad day

Owen’s friends problems are his problems, he is happy to listen, happy to share the burden but for him it is a real burden. It will stick with him, he will quietly worry, I will have to go into the room and lure him out with promises of Pixar. Future girlfriends, that will be your job. That doesn’t mean he can’t deal with peoples problems and people shouldn’t share with them with him, but part of Owen being a compassionate and empathetic guy is that he isn’t unaffected by what he hears and often bad things seem to happen to people all at once and sometimes his life can be going great but he’ll be brought down by the stuff that is happening to those he cares about around him.

Fifteen- Owen will tend to care very much for other people but has a history with girls who end up needing him for too much emotional support and leave him drained

This leads from the one above, Owen has a history where often in a relationship he becomes the confidant and emotional support network for the partner. That is a partners job but he would become their only support, for all their problems, that keep happening, that can often be avoided, that often aren’t fixed. It means that when he is single he feels like a load is lifted off his shoulders, a girl dating him doesn’t want to start stacking the baggage right back on. It doesn’t mean he won’t be there for them, it doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to help, but generally if you want to date someone and not make them suffer then I’d like to personally say ‘harden the **** up and get your **** together a little bit. Have a cry, have a complain, but recover and fix it, otherwise the pain just continues and also please keep it off my Facebook Newsfeed.’

Sixteen- Owen is not photogenic

If you find that one good photo – tag it, like it, comment on it and personally point it out to him. If you see a photo where he looks like a gremlin, alien, is sucking his bottom lip, looks pallid, is half asleep or of all calamities his hair looks terrible – make sure it doesn’t get tagged and threaten the poster to take it down.

Seventeen- Most of Owen’s friends are girls/Owen is not very sporty/Owen does not like beer/Owen does not mind discussing emotions and feelings/Owen enjoys to socially analyse/Owen isn’t much of a bloke

All reasons why Owen may have been born in the wrong country and perhaps the wrong gender. But in seriousness, I see Owen as a bit of a gentleman, he’s more interested in intellectual pursuits than physical bravado and he’s a fan of conversation. A girlfriend will have to put up with Owen having a large circle of female friends, including myself. - Yeah you heard it bitch.

...Ayep.

[Scarlet Knight]

I got Mrs. D one about 5 years ago and it is still on the entertainment center. It still looks nice when dusted off, but I wouldn't vouch for the taste now.

Well, since the lady in question is now "Mrs. D", I'll say "Point for the chocolate rose"!

[Morph Bark]

...Ayep.

I especially like #7.

[Dvil]

So I was bumbling around on memebase, and I found this. Food for thought.

[Coidzor]

So I was bumbling around on memebase, and I found this. Food for thought.

Hmm... Asking out a girl who just got engaged on the other side of the country. Kinky.

[loopy]

I especially like #7.

Yeah, I admit, I'm a little self-obsessed. :(

[AtlanteanTroll]

It IS best to schedule Valentines day dates early. Way early.

A whole month?

[Coidzor]

A whole month?

If it involves reservations at a hot spot, that's sometimes what it takes.

However, generally first dates shouldn't be in such a high pressure environment. One wants them to be as easy-going as possible, really.

Valentine's Dates are really more for couples that need a bit of spice to ease up on the monotony and drain and stress that the holidays and family and winter put upon them.

Hence the lingerie and such.

[Mutant Sheep]

Also, free chocolate.

[Coidzor]

Also, free chocolate.

There is no free chocolate. After V-Day, there's greatly discounted chocolate though.

[Mutant Sheep]

There is no free chocolate. After V-Day, there's greatly discounted chocolate though.

You're obviously dating the wrong people then!

[Coidzor]

You're obviously dating the wrong people then!

Ah, but you see, then you're dating them. So it's just part of the general barter/gift economy of a relationship.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Ugh, you're all probably tired of my complaining about this.

I am such a jerk. My best friend and I, the one that I've stupidly gone and fallen in love with, we joke about how everyone is shipping us, there there's some sort of cosmic betting pool on the date we finally get together, but I've never worked up the courage to say that I'm only partially joking. Because I always think to myself that there's some outside reason why this will never work, and I'm probably right.

And meanwhile I've never ever dealt with these emotions before. And even worse are the physical wants, which I have absolutely no clue how to deal with, and that's even worse because this is my best friend I'm talking and thinking about!

I don't know what to do...

[Pika...]

A whole month?

Again, I originally thought Vday was this month. Silly me. -_-

[Reluctance]

Coffee: Go up to him. Kiss him. This is looking like one of those cutesy "they're both too shy to make the first move" things, and it's saccharine enough to make me want to lock the two of you in a room together and invent a clothes disintegration ray. Make a move. It's better than twisting your guts into knots playing What If.

As for figuring out your body, all you need is erotica and some alone time. But the feelings, they're going to happen again unless you sequester yourself for the rest of your life. Better to explore them with someone you care for and trust - someone who seems to care for and trust you as well - than to have your emotions go out of whack with some guy you've just been casually dating. This is practice, but it sounds like an ideal training wheels situation.

Shockrat: See if you can move the date forwards. Drop the flowers and candy. Old-Fashioned Romance is a crock. Think of something fun to do, invite her along so you can do it together, and stop expecting it to be anything. This is a test ride. You're not interviewing for a lifelong position just yet.

[Lord Loss]

Dear Coffee, I've been in your situation twice. The first time, I made a move, got shot down, got over it and it was temporarily awkward for a little while before we forgot about it.

The second time? I didn't do a darn thing and found out too late that one of my good friends had liked me and that I missed a chance.

I agree with Reluctance on this one, at worst well you'll stay friends and at best you become more, but you'll never know what might have been if you don't make one.

[CoffeeIncluded]

The problem is that I'm terrified of what could happen. We both go to different colleges, but more importantly, we're incredibly close, and if our friendship is ruined over this...

I want to tell him, I'm just having trouble finding the time. He's headed back to college Friday, while I'm still on break for another couple weeks. But next week I'm headed up to meet him and a couple other close friends of mine, in a big get-together, and I'm crashing in his room two nights, so maybe I might be able to tell him then...

He, well, we I guess, also does this mixed message thing that doesn't exactly help. His circulation's crap because of a heart condition and I tend to run hot, so sometimes I show him how warm my hands are compared to his, or I make a comment and he gestures. Except that there's a difference between a brief touch "oh, you're warm" and not letting go for several minutes and guess which one happens between us...

[Mando Knight]

If you don't want to make the first direct move, next time you happen to go into the topic, ask him what he thinks the odds are that you will get together.

[CoffeeIncluded]

If you don't want to make the first direct move, next time you happen to go into the topic, ask him what he thinks the odds are that you will get together.

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

[Mutant Sheep]

I'm going to leap on a nearly broken branch o' cliche here and say don't change yourself. An awesome friendship can turn into an amazing relationship if you decide that being in a committed relationship doesn't mean you should completely change the relationship between you and the guy and how you act around each other. So if everyone thinks you should get together, dont stress on the "getting together" part. I'm not saying you should not change anything about how you hang out with him, especially if you (and the rest of the world) seem to think it can work out, but that being too "we are now boyfriend/girlfriend, lets start doing boyfriend/girlfriend things" is needless and would make it needlessly awkward.

TL;DR: hard to comprehend ramblings about how you shouldn't start doing things you would feel awkward doing with him now, just because being in a relationship means you should do relationshipey things.

[Moonshadow]

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

So... obviously, you need to make a bet and then collect all the winnings AND get the guy.

It's win/win >.>

[Mando Knight]

Ah, see, the awkward thing about that is...

Everyone ships us. Everyone. My peers, his peers, random people on the street, we are the OTP of practically everyone we meet together. There is a cosmic betting pool on the date and time that we get together.

And one way of getting his feelings on the issue would be to ask for what his bet is. Then ask why. Then you can manipulate the conversation into either getting him to ask the question or make it a bit more comfortable for you to.