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    Default The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    The Weapon Master

    Prerequisites: To become a weapon master, you must meet the following prerequisites

    Base Attack Bonus: +5
    Feats: Weapon Focus (Any Weapon), Weapon Specialization (Any Weapon)

    Hit Dice: d12
    Class Skills: The weapon master's class skills are Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Architecture and Engineering), Knowledge (Local), Listen, Move Silently, Profession, Sense Motive, Spot, and Swim.
    Skill Points: 4+Int per level

    {table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|+1|+2|+0|+0|Weapon of Choice, Keen Edge

    2nd|+2|+3|+0|+0|Flurry of Strikes

    3rd|+3|+3|+1|+1|Greater Weapon Focus

    4th|+4|+4|+1|+1|Weakening Strike

    5th|+5|+4|+1|+1|Heavy Hitter

    6th|+6|+5|+2|+2|Greater Weapon Specialization

    7th|+7|+5|+2|+2|Sweeping Blow

    8th|+8|+6|+2|+2|Improved Flurry of Strikes

    9th|+9|+6|+3|+3|Weapon Supremacy

    10th|+10|+7|+3|+3|Weapon Master
    [/table]

    Class Features: The following are the class features of the weapon master.

    Weapon of Choice (Ex): A weapon master selects a single weapon when he takes his first level of this class. It becomes his chosen weapon, and is the only weapon he can use for any of his class features. The weapon must be a weapon that he has the Weapon Focus and Weapon Specialization feats for. It can be any weapon, melee or ranged, simple or exotic, even an unarmed strike, natural attack, or shield. The weapon master receives a +10 bonus on Appraise checks made to identify the quality of any weapon he finds of the same type as his chosen weapon, and also receives a +10 bonus on Craft checks made to create and repair weapons of the same type as his chosen weapon.

    Keen Edge (Ex): A weapon master receives Improved Critical as a bonus feat for his chosen weapon. He need not meet the prerequisites. If he already has the Improved Critical feat for his chosen weapon, he receives no benefit from this class feature.

    Flurry of Strikes (Ex): A weapon master who is at least 2nd level may use the Flurry of Strikes ability. He may only use this ability when wielding his chosen weapon, and may not attack with any other weapon during the same round (including as part of the flurry of strikes). As part of a full round attack, the weapon master may make an additional attack at his highest attack bonus. This ability stacks with other such abilities, like the Flurry of Blows class feature, the Rapid Shot feat or the haste spell.

    Greater Weapon Focus (Ex): A weapon master receives Greater Weapon Focus as a bonus feat for his chosen weapon at 3rd level. He need not meet the prerequisites.

    Weakening Strike (Ex): As a standard action, a weapon master of 4th level or higher may make a single attack with his chosen weapon at his highest attack bonus. If his attack hits and deals damage, he may also deal 1d6 points of ability damage to the creature. The weapon master chooses which ability score to deal damage to when the strike is made. This ability damage is multiplied on a critical hit, using the chosen weapon's critical multiplier (but only to creatures who are vulnerable to critical hits).

    Heavy Hitter (Ex): Starting at 5th level, a weapon master treats his chosen weapon as if its critical multiplier was increased by 1. (x2 to x3, x3 to x4, x4 to x5). This ability only applies as long as the weapon master wields his chosen weapon.

    Greater Weapon Specialization (Ex): At 6th level, the weapon master receives Greater Weapon Specialization for his chosen weapon as a bonus feat. He need not meet the prerequisites.

    Sweeping Blow (Ex): Starting at 7th level, a weapon master's reach with his chosen weapon increases by 5 feet. This is not apparent to his enemies at first. If the weapon master's chosen weapon is a ranged weapon, he instead doubles its range limit and only takes a -1 penalty to hit per range increment beyond that. (This bonus stacks with the Far Shot feat)

    Improved Flurry of Strikes (Ex): A weapon master of 8th level or higher's Flurry of Strikes ability improves. The weapon master now receives a second additional attack with his chosen weapon when he uses Flurry of Strikes.

    Weapon Supremacy (Ex): A weapon master of 9th level and higher gains the Weapon Supremacy feat (PHB II) as a bonus feat for his chosen weapon. He need not meet the prerequisites.

    Weapon Master (Ex): A 10th level weapon master is a warrior without peer. As a standard action, he is able to make a single melee attack at his highest attack bonus against every enemy creature within his reach, with his chosen weapon. If his chosen weapon is a ranged weapon, he instead now ignores the penalties that creatures receive against him for cover or being prone, and he also adds his Dexterity modifier to weapon damage rolls with his chosen weapon.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-30 at 01:43 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I would love to play an unarmed fighter with this class. It just sounds like a hell of a lot of fun.

    I like the abilities. Pretty simple, but they do what they're supposed. I was too lazy to look up some of those feats, but I'm sure they fit the theme.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Domriso View Post
    I would love to play an unarmed fighter with this class. It just sounds like a hell of a lot of fun.

    I like the abilities. Pretty simple, but they do what they're supposed. I was too lazy to look up some of those feats, but I'm sure they fit the theme.
    Yes, but I think a straight fighter will appreciate the upgrade. More skill points, better class skills, less feats, but more specialization on his chosen weapon.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    the oath is to harsh. now the fighter is even more limited, down to only using one weapon. just get rid of the oath, as none of the class features would apply to other weapons. it would still penalize the class for useing another weapon, but allow the fighter to matter in combats he is not specialized for(ie. if he choses falchion, he would need a bow against ranged foes). otherwise the class looks nice.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    the oath is to harsh. now the fighter is even more limited, down to only using one weapon. just get rid of the oath, as none of the class features would apply to other weapons. it would still penalize the class for useing another weapon, but allow the fighter to matter in combats he is not specialized for(ie. if he choses falchion, he would need a bow against ranged foes). otherwise the class looks nice.
    Alright, I removed it.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Weapon of Choice seems...odd. So I can use any other weapon provided I do nonlethal damage?

    As for Weakening Strike, that seems open to abuse for crits, as combined with Heavy Hitter and Keen Edge, a Weapon Master using a Rapier or other 18-20/x2 weapon is putting out 15-20/x3, which when applied to Weakening Strike means 25% of Weakening Strikes are dealing 3-18 Con (b/c, let's face it, hitting Con hurts the most out of any of the ability damages unless you're looking to cripple or capture), effectively at will. I don't think any other ability damage gets multiplied and for good reason. I'm not saying cut the ability, as it makes sense for someone with this level of skill to be able to pick people apart, I'm just saying remove the crit effect. I don't even want to imagine if Kaorti Resin gets mixed into this (15-20/x5 ).
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    seems good then. hands out more feats then fighter levels would, but the are pre chosen, and heavily specialized. I like it.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cieyrin View Post
    Weapon of Choice seems...odd. So I can use any other weapon provided I do nonlethal damage?
    No. There was an oath. I removed it. Forgot to update Weapon of Choice. Basically, you just pick a weapon and you only use that weapon.

    As for Weakening Strike, that seems open to abuse for crits, as combined with Heavy Hitter and Keen Edge, a Weapon Master using a Rapier or other 18-20/x2 weapon is putting out 15-20/x3, which when applied to Weakening Strike means 25% of Weakening Strikes are dealing 3-18 Con (b/c, let's face it, hitting Con hurts the most out of any of the ability damages unless you're looking to cripple or capture), effectively at will. I don't think any other ability damage gets multiplied and for good reason. I'm not saying cut the ability, as it makes sense for someone with this level of skill to be able to pick people apart, I'm just saying remove the crit effect. I don't even want to imagine if Kaorti Resin gets mixed into this (15-20/x5 ).
    It's supposed to be crit abusable. It's your only standard action ability, and it should be able to seriously hurt, like a maneuver.

    Considering your full-attack action is so strong (6 attacks at level 20, 3 at your highest attack bonus, more if you have ways to increase it like haste, the speed enhancement, Flurry of Blows or Rapid Shot), then your standard action attack has to be powerful enough to keep up.

    Yes, with the right build this can turn into a devastatingly crippling ability, and even a no-save-just-die if you're attacking a creature with low Str, Dex or Con. But it's your only skirmish ability, and since melee fighters are so bad at dealing with mobility, I thought they could use a boon.

    Edit: Also, other ability damage can be multiplied easily! For instance, poison is a weaponlike spell, so if you crit with it, you deal 2d10 Constitution damage instead of 1d10. I don't see why I can't allow my stat damage to crit too.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-30 at 06:39 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    man, now I want to gestalt a razor//fighter/weapon master for some insane mass attacks...

    also, the abilaty damage is a bit of a just die affect. perhaps make it deal more damage then a normal strike, like a D&D x2 per attack you could make on a full attack. then it becomes a basket for all of your eggs on a charge...
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    also, the abilaty damage is a bit of a just die affect. perhaps make it deal more damage then a normal strike, like a D&D x2 per attack you could make on a full attack. then it becomes a basket for all of your eggs on a charge...
    I have no interest in more damage. That's boring, and if you want more damage, you better just set yourself up for a full attack. More options is always better, so the ability to deal ability score damage is more interesting and useful.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    It's definitely straightforward, but adds a much needed boost to classes like the fighter and does it rather elegantly considering the fact it mostly just grants extra feats.
    The only thing that irritates me is the keen edge ability. I don't remember in particular if improved critical has any feats based off of it, but if it does (and it probably does), players might still get stuck taking the improved critical feat making this sort of meh. All you would need to add is that any feat that he qualifies for because of keen edge only applies to the weapon in question.
    I would have to agree with you on the damage thing though. I actually did some math last night (I got bored) and with considerably few feats (between 3 and 8 depending on the fighting style) the fighter can actually meet the average of the 10d6-20d6 die spellcasters dish out anyways (more if they score a crit).
    Last edited by eftexar; 2011-12-30 at 03:54 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    It's definitely straightforward, but adds a much needed boost to classes like the fighter and does it rather elegantly considering the fact it mostly just grants extra feats.
    The only thing that irritates me is the keen edge ability. I don't remember in particular if improved critical has any feats based off of it, but if it does (and it probably does), players might still get stuck taking the improved critical feat making this sort of meh. All you would need to add is that any feat that he qualifies for because of keen edge only applies to the weapon in question.
    Improved Critical has a BAB prerequisite of +8. If you enter the class at 6th level, there's no way you could already have it.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I wasn't even considering if you had it or not. I was just talking about feat prerequisites.
    If I take this PrC and wanted to take a feat that requires improved critical, I still have to take the improved critical feat to qualify for it. And since critical bonuses don't stack (unless you have a DM that lets you use 3.0 and third party books) it becomes a wasted feature.
    Now this might not be an issue, because many classes do this and it is only one feature, but melee can definitely use a little bit of help in the scoring a crit area.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    I wasn't even considering if you had it or not. I was just talking about feat prerequisites.
    If I take this PrC and wanted to take a feat that requires improved critical, I still have to take the improved critical feat to qualify for it. And since critical bonuses don't stack (unless you have a DM that lets you use 3.0 and third party books) it becomes a wasted feature.
    Now this might not be an issue, because many classes do this and it is only one feature, but melee can definitely use a little bit of help in the scoring a crit area.
    Why do you say that? The text of the feature says "You get Improved Critical as a bonus feat". So no, you don't need to take it again.
    Last edited by NeoSeraphi; 2011-12-30 at 04:15 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    whoop... Did you change it from its original post or am I just blind? Sorry...

    edit > Just woke up, and I have a bad habit of skimming.
    Last edited by eftexar; 2011-12-30 at 04:24 PM.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by eftexar View Post
    whoop... Did you change it from its original post or am I just blind... Sorry.
    Nope, that's how it's always been.

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Nice, much better than the Complete Warrior Kensai and Oriental adventures Weapon Master.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    This definitely improves the power of fighters. I see no problem in choosing one weapon above the others. It just shows you are focused on that one weapon. Now not to try and break it or anything, but can anyone do the math for a kaorti resin scimitar wielder. I imagine it's gotta be pretty high.


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Definitely provides a nice boost to fighters. Can anyone do the math for a kaorti-resin scimitars? I'd really like to see those numbers.


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    This...does not improve the power of Fighters. Actually, it lags pretty far behind resources that are already available and makes the key mistake of thinking that Fighters can be improved by giving them bigger numbers. Paizo and Frank & K already tried that, and the jury has rendered the verdict of it doesn't help any.

    More importantly, the key non-feat features of this class can already be replicated by single-classed fighters that are wise about their feat selection, mostly through Martial Study and Martial Stance (in particular, the Nightmare Blade maneuver line, the Mongoose boost line, and various kinds of Shadow Hand). So I could spend ten levels pretending very hard to be a Warblade that dipped Swordsage...or I can play a Warblade, and do all of this easier, faster, and ultimately better and with an equally-attractive skill list. Being married to one weapon while pretending to be a Warblade is just putting more insult to the injury.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Hmm, personally, never having used a warblade, I wouldn't know. If you could direct me to a discussion where someone could explain the warblade, I'd happily take a look.


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashardalon125 View Post
    Hmm, personally, never having used a warblade, I wouldn't know. If you could direct me to a discussion where someone could explain the warblade, I'd happily take a look.
    Luckily for you, the Warblade (and the text of every single maneuver from Tome of Battle including the ones he doesn't actually get) are freely and legally available here for your perusal and use. There's also a handy guide written by several of our very own forum members (warning: don't reply to the guide thread, as it's old enough for that to be necromancy).

    EDIT: Sorry, here are the maneuvers - in handy printable form!
    Last edited by Lord_Gareth; 2012-10-14 at 09:54 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Many thanks. I will take a look! While you are on this thread, could you maybe suggest ways for this PrC to actually have a point?


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashardalon125 View Post
    Many thanks. I will take a look! While you are on this thread, could you maybe suggest ways for this PrC to actually have a point?
    Difficult, actually. There's only so many ways to really exploit the, "I have mastered one weapon," niche and most of those classes are either already solid (Kensai) or in desperate need of improvement (Anointed Knight). A full or perhaps 3/4 initiator level progression (that's for Tome of Battle - Warblade and his ilk - classes) would at least make it less painful and perhaps attractive for people aiming at the flavor of mastering a single weapon, but again so much of that can already be done with maneuvers that it seems a little pointless.

    Now, I could see this class opening up new possibilities with weapons that might not already be there. It has some of that, a little - like the increased reach thing - but that theme could be expanded upon much further. If Neo collapsed it down to a five-level class I could see it having a setup kinda like the Master Thrower (CWar) where each level you pick from a list of cool tricks that you can then apply to your weapon. Daggers that ricohet back to your hand! Swords that trip like spiked chains! Even stranger things! And you'd really want to go odd in order to avoid redundancy - a level is an expensive price to pay to get a trick.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I see your point. Maybe like you said a 5 level condensed.Hmm, I could see this. Maybe it could be worth time working on (not that I'm that good.). Then it would be a consideration. You sir, have opened my eyes. *bow*


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I'd also like to mention that Chosen Weapon seems to imply that all of your class features can only be used with a single instance of a given weapon.

    So, to make an example, let's say you pick a longsword. Your longsword is destroyed, either due to a casting of Shatter, being sundered, the attack of a Rust Monster or one of the hundred other ways to destroy an object... you can't use any of your class features.

    Besides, you still don't have any interesting options other than "I attack" until you hit Weakening Strike, which, by the way, does it replace the damage you normally would deal, or does it stack with the damage you normally deal.

    Also, "penalties" in that last ability needs to be replaced by "benefits", or else it makes no sense.

    So, yeah, I do not like this prestige class.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I see your point. It kinda kills you if even one thing goes wrong. This class has a possible potential, but it has to be reworked. I may take Lord_Gareth's suggestions and try my hand at a fix.


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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashardalon125 View Post
    I see your point. It kinda kills you if even one thing goes wrong. This class has a possible potential, but it has to be reworked. I may take Lord_Gareth's suggestions and try my hand at a fix.
    If you do it's normally considered polite around here to credit the original author (in this case, NeoSeraphi) with the inspiration, just as a heads-up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    I sincerely apologize. I should have given more credit to him (and probably asked permission too). My bad.


    Here to work on the great system that is D&D. Though I will not shoot down 4e's, I am strictly 3.5e player.

  30. - Top - End - #30
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    gkathellar's Avatar

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    Default Re: The Weapon Master (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    On a read-through, I have to say that I'm really not seeing a lot of draw here. You can break down most of the levels along these lines:
    • At levels 1, 3, 6, 9 and 10, you get a subpar bonus feat a little earlier than a fighter of the same level could get it. Given that the Weapon Focus line is pretty uniformly terrible, that's actually something of a negative power differential. 10th level is Whirlwind Attack, so you may as well call it by its name.
    • At levels 2 and 8, you get extra attacks. That's not bad, mind, but it's not great either, and in return you have to take 8 levels of this class.
    • At level 3, there's ... well. There's all of one reason to take levels in Weapon Master, and that's Weakening Strike. With luck and efficient abuse, Weakening Strike can border on Shivering Touch levels of broken. I guess that encourages a 4-level dip, but honestly the ability cannot stay as is, because shutting down an entire because you rolled a natural 20 is problematic. It doesn't help that the ability is incompatible with other aspects of the class (Flurry in particular).
    • At level 5, you get an increase to critical modifier. Again, that's not strictly bad, but it's not worth taking 5 levels for.
    • At level 7, you get 5 ft of reach or a Far Shot analogue. At character level 12, when the sorcerer has just learned to literally turn people into dust.

    So ... the problem here is that you have a mix of non-abilities, bad abilities, and one ability with so much potential for to be useless or useful that it's impossible to get a clear read on. It doesn't help that most of what you have here is passive, and therefore boring. I would recommend remodeling the class with a much greater quotient of active abilities, possibly even as an Initiator class that uses ToB as a base.
    Quote Originally Posted by KKL
    D&D is its own momentum and does its own fantasy. It emulates itself in an incestuous mess.

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