Iron Chef Optimization Challenge In The Playground #XXVIII

[Amphetryon]

I believe that was the point.

This probably isn't the thread for it, but I'd be curious to see what the consensus was on what the WORST CLASS that ICOCITP has ever used for an SI.

Tactical Soldier gets my vote. I'd vote for it twice, if I could.

[Piggy Knowles]

Wait, wait.

I just came back from holiday. The previous challenge's first three places all go to first timers? Surely that's some sort of a first.

No, it wasn't all first-timers - this was my third competition, and I tied with you for bronze.

I'm hoping I can keep up my streak! Thus far, I've submitted five builds to the Iron Chef, and four of them have placed top three, while the last took fourth place but snagged honorable mention.

I'm still waffling on whether or not I will be competing with this one. I have one cool idea that dovetails nicely with some of the cryokineticist's abilities, but it's a little weak on its own. I'm hoping I'll brainstorm something interesting before the deadline, but if I don't, I'll try to judge instead.

[BobVosh]

I believe that was the point.

This probably isn't the thread for it, but I'd be curious to see what the consensus was on what the WORST CLASS that ICOCITP has ever used for an SI.

Worst class in terms of playing, or in terms of SI?

For the first I would say Green Star Adept simply due to how much you have to work to make it actually do something other than die as a horrible gish.
For the second I would probably say tactical soldier, boring class.

[OMG PONIES]

No love for the Tactical Soldier? I thought it was actually quite unique, and just the right brand of bad that a little optimization made it pretty good.

[Thurbane]

No love for the Tactical Soldier? I thought it was actually quite unique, and just the right brand of bad that a little optimization made it pretty good.

I have a soft spot for it as well. I generally play in a pretty low op game, and it's a fairly easy PrC for a Fighter to qualify for.

[TroubleBrewing]

Honestly, my vote would go to GSA. Tactical Soldier IS terrible, but that contest produced Glinka, and she scares the crud out of me. None of the GSA builds really caught my eye, not to mention that it established the "no arguing in-thread" rule.

That one started ugly, with a messy, terrible PRC, and got UGLIER.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Honestly, my vote would go to GSA. Tactical Soldier IS terrible, but that contest produced Glinka, and she scares the crud out of me. None of the GSA builds really caught my eye, not to mention that it established the "no arguing in-thread" rule.

That one started ugly, with a messy, terrible PRC, and got UGLIER.

1/2 spellcasting progression classes can be handled with rapid spell progression classes. This is a class which requires some degree of manifestation, and doesn't do anything with it. It's like Arcane Archer... only without Channel Spell to pretend there's some kind of synergy involved.

[Zaq]

For my money, I think that Vigilante is the worst class we've had as an ingredient. It just. Doesn't. Do. Anything. Tactical Soldier and Stonelord (my two runners-up for worst class) do things that are easily matched and surpassed by better classes, but Vigilante just doesn't have anything going for it.

Scion of Tem-Et-Nu is one of the most easily shafted classes, though. No river nearby? There go half your class features. Better talk to your GM first, more so than usual . . .

[Wiggins]

I feel like competing, but I have absolutely no idea yet what I'll do with this. Should I wait until I make some headway first?

[Garwain]

I feel like competing, but I have absolutely no idea yet what I'll do with this. Should I wait until I make some headway first?

Exactly! I'm very curious to see what others can make of it. Because right now, I have no clue...

[ExemplarofAvg]

Force an Idea?
Write down all classes that could get into the Cryokineticist.
Cross out ones that don't really fit well.
Once you have that, then make an idea.
Reverse Engineer the Build.
Start Creating without any formal idea.

[Piggy Knowles]

I tend to build for IC in one of two directions.

The first is thematic. Scrub away the given fluff for the class. Just look at the abilities, and imagine what a character who has those abilities would look like. How would he use them? What would be useful? Start creating a picture in your head of this character, and then build around that.

(So, for example, with Frater Omnia, I stopped paying attention to the fluff of mindbender, wrote down a list of all those abilities, and tried to imagine what kind of a person someone with those abilities would be. I got the idea of a pacifistic cult leader with a golden voice, and began building from there. I looked at different ways I could create the character I wanted, and started developing a story simultaneously.)

The second is to find an ability or combo that you think is cool, and then build around that. Sometimes something comes to me as soon as I read the class, and sometimes I'll scan all my other books until something comes to mind. Start by finding a way to make that happen, and then flesh out the rest of the build around that. Nine times out of ten, by the time the build is finished, I've moved beyond that original combo or whatever that inspired it, but that's still what gave me a starting point.

(Vald Lokkur was an example of this. I started out with the idea of using Arcane Archer to channel the Divine Crusader's high level spells. Originally, my plan was to use the Chaos domain, and spend my 8 remaining levels dedicated to boosting my caster level as high as possible, and shooting off super high-level Words of Chaos. However, as I was doing this, I noticed the fact that Arcane Archer's imbue class feature reduced the casting time of spells to a standard action. That made me think of those weather spells with the long casting times, and I changed tracks and instead decided to create a winter-themed character. I needed arcane caster levels to become an AA, so that made me think of Hexblade, and from there I had my final concept of an Asgardian winter witch.)

[BobVosh]

Ok, I seriously can't get over this. Why is this class lawful only? I can't find a single reason that it states about it.

[Thurbane]

Ok, I seriously can't get over this. Why is this class lawful only? I can't find a single reason that it states about it.

Maybe because ice is crystalline with an "ordered structure"? That's just a wild stab in the dark...

[Urpriest]

Ok, I seriously can't get over this. Why is this class lawful only? I can't find a single reason that it states about it.

It's the opposite of Pyrokineticist.

[DemonRoach]

Ok, I seriously can't get over this. Why is this class lawful only? I can't find a single reason that it states about it.

Because Ice opposes chaos. Blizzards, freezing temperatures, avalanches, all such things are the attempts of the sentient Ice elements to destroy that most obnoxious of chaotic things, living beings. For those that breathe are not content to float upon the water and travel to the lowest nearby centre of gravity, evermore they oppose the natural order and seek to imprint their own insanity upon the world. The Ice Age was a glorious time of peace and contentment, and the world be righted again. Oh yes it will.


Hmm, appear to have lost my anti-crazy pills. Must be the Ice.

I don't think I've got anything for this shocker of a class....

[Amphetryon]

Got a PM regarding the Spelltouched feats in UA. Officially, I'll stipulate they aren't an "alternate rules set" like Gestalt or Domain Wizard and are therefore available, but there's no proscription against judges imposing Elegance penalties for using materials from Unearthed Arcana, aka The Big Book of House-Rules.

[FyreByrd]

OK after having an abortive attempt at the mindbender IronChef, I'm pretty certain I can pull a build out of this one, It's power will be pretty meh, but then I'm looking forward to see if anyone can pull a decent power score out of it!

[Gullintanni]

For my money, I think that Vigilante is the worst class we've had as an ingredient. It just. Doesn't. Do. Anything. Tactical Soldier and Stonelord (my two runners-up for worst class) do things that are easily matched and surpassed by better classes, but Vigilante just doesn't have anything going for it.

Stonelord is one of my favorite PrCs thematically. I love the fluff...I'm perpetually sad at how awful it is mechanically. Although Old-Lob the Were-Snow Spider was awesome.

In any event, does anyone if a homebrew attempt has been made to improve the Stonelord? It's a great idea that could use a serious re-working and if there's quality out there I'd love to see it...

...Sorry for the minor de-rail.

[BobVosh]

All ICs are 10 pages of derail, and 4 pages on subject. It is just unique in how it always returns to topic.

Also bump to first again.

[Feytalist]

To be fair, there is only so much to say about the secret ingredient, and while we're waiting for the builds to come in we might as well talk about other stuff, heh. Like previous IC's.

I've glanced at Pyrokineticist, and I've formed a few ideas, but Cryo has a few slight differences apparently. Hmm, perhaps I should stealacquire a Frostburn somewhere.

[Rizban]

I have a concept I've been wanting to throw together with this class for awhile, so I think I'll add my name to the contestant list.

[Gotterdammerung]

I am through with the "brainstorming" part and the "trouble shooting" part and the "make up the background story" part. I am at the "filling out all the crap" and the "typing out the story" and the "formatting all the info" part.

So I will definitely be competing.

[Jeriah]

This looks like fun. I want to submit a build too.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

What are the rules on web-content? Stuff that was on the WOTC site that isn't Dragon Mag content, but isn't in a published book either?

[Thurbane]

What are the rules on web-content? Stuff that was on the WOTC site that isn't Dragon Mag content, but isn't in a published book either?

WotC web-only content is kosher, and in fact, appears quite often.

[Amphetryon]

What are the rules on web-content? Stuff that was on the WOTC site that isn't Dragon Mag content, but isn't in a published book either?

From the OP:

Web-exclusive 3.0 or 3.5 materials by WotC are expressly allowed

.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I can't find a single way to bypass cold resistance/immunity with psi-like abilities. Without that... it's pretty much impossible to build a character with this PrC that isn't completely shut down just by having the [Cold] subtype.

Also, Frozen Fist is a huge TRAP for one reason:

"... instead of any other special damage from the unarmed attack".

So it is literally impossible to damage-stack on top of it. Sneak attack? Nope. Monk unarmed damage? Nope... arguabally, not even ToB maneuvers and stances can affect damage, nor even Bardic IC/DFI. Nothing.

I... would be very interested to see how anyone could get any use out of this...

[Gotterdammerung]

I can't find a single way to bypass cold resistance/immunity with psi-like abilities. Without that... it's pretty much impossible to build a character with this PrC that isn't completely shut down just by having the [Cold] subtype.

Also, Frozen Fist is a huge TRAP for one reason:

"... instead of any other special damage from the unarmed attack".

So it is literally impossible to damage-stack on top of it. Sneak attack? Nope. Monk unarmed damage? Nope... arguabally, not even ToB maneuvers and stances can affect damage, nor even Bardic IC/DFI. Nothing.

I... would be very interested to see how anyone could get any use out of this...

Soon you shall see muhuahauhauhauah.

P.S. I agree... completely useless class. I am surprised I came up with something workable.

[dextercorvia]

I can't find a single way to bypass cold resistance/immunity with psi-like abilities.

IIRC, that was a common problem with Pyrokineticist.