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    Default Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    It's bugged me for a while that no one anywhere has ever made anything for a character wielding a weapon in one hand and being unarmed on the other. After much thinking on it, I devised this. Some of the wording gave me trouble, so if you can think of a cleaner, more concise way of saying something, please let me know. Any PEACHing on the class is also appreciated. And yes, I know it's very powerful, but it's an underused build that I honestly think needs that boost to be really useful.

    Whirling Fist
    In a secluded monastery in the mountains lives a tribe of warrior monks who are unlike most monks. Instead of self mastery, meditation or pure unarmed combat, they focus on combat and speed of attack using a weapon and a bare hand. Many have sought them out to increase their combat skill, as they will take on many students to teach them the powerful combat style they have mastered. All who pass the test of the monastery will be initiated into the mysteries of the Whirling Fist.

    Prerequisites:
    Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Two Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus (shortsword) or (longsword) or (bastard sword)
    BAB: +6
    Special: Must have found the monastery in the mountains and availed upon the head monk for teaching. The head monk will assign a challenge (generally one-on-one combat against another monk) to test your skill with a blade and in unarmed combat. Only those who successfully pass the challenge are accepted.

    {table=head]Level|BAB|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

    1st|
    +1
    |
    +2
    |
    +2
    |
    +0
    |Monk Abilities, Whirling Blows

    2nd|
    +2
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +0
    |Two Handed Combat Expert

    3rd|
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +3
    |
    +1
    |Swift Strike

    4th|
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Spinning Defense

    5th|
    +5
    |
    +4
    |
    +4
    |
    +1
    |Perfectly Balanced Blade and Fist[/table]

    Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), and Tumble (Dex).
    Skillpoints Per Level: 4+Int Mod
    Hit Die: D8

    Monk Abilities: A Whirling Fist's levels stack with his levels in the Monk class to determine his unarmed strike damage, unarmored bonus to AC, unarmored speed bonus, and his Flurry of Blows progression. No other abilities are progressed by this feature. If a Whirling Blade has no levels in Monk, he is treated as having a number of levels in Monk equal to his Whirling Blade level for these abilities. A Whirling Fist with levels of Monk may continue to take levels of Monk after taking levels in this class.

    Whirling Blows (Ex): A Whirling Fist spins and twirls his way across the battlefield, his blade making more strikes than normal as he moves. At 1st level he gains an additional attack with his main hand at his highest BAB each round of combat whenever he wields a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand. This ability improves as the Whirling Fist levels, granting him a second additional attack at 3rd level, and a third additional attack at 5th level. These extra attacks are added into his standard or full round attack action.

    Two-Handed Combat Expert (Ex): A Whirling Fist is an expert at fighting with both hands. At 2nd level whenever he uses the Two-Weapon Fighting feat, his penalty to attack is decreased by 1. This improves at 4th level to minus 2 (so a Whirling Fist of 4th level using a light weapon in his off hand takes no penalty to his attacks with either hand). Furthermore, if he fights wielding a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand, any time he hits a foe with the sword in his main hand he may immediately make an unarmed strike at the same BAB against the same foe.

    Swift Strike (Ex): A Whirling Fist has trained to be the fastest attacker on the field. At 3rd level, once per round as a swift action he may make a single attack against one foe adjacent to him at his highest BAB. If wielding a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand, he may make one attack with each hand instead. This ability does not stack with Two-Handed Combat Expert (he only gets the one attack with each hand).

    Spinning Defense (Ex): A Whirling Fist has mastered the art of twisting and twirling across the battlefield. At 4th level, he no longer provokes attacks of opportunity for moving on the battlefield. Additionally, if he is wielding a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand, he gains a deflection bonus to AC equal to his Whirling Fist level. He loses this bonus to AC when he is flat-footed or would otherwise be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC.

    Perfectly Balanced Blade and Fist(Ex): A Whirling Fist has mastered the art of fighting with a sword and fist in tandem. At 5th level, whenever he wields a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand, his blade and fist are considered to have the keen and impact weapon properties, respectively. Apply this effect after all other critical enhancers are applied. Additionally, any time he uses Two Handed Combat Expert to make an additional unarmed strike, his unarmed strike damage is automatically maximized. Furthermore, anytime he wields a shortsword, longsword or bastard sword in his main hand and is unarmed on his off hand, all his critical multipliers are increased by 1 (2x to 3x, 3x to 4x, 4x to 5x, et cetera). Apply this effect after all other critical enhancers are applied.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2011-12-31 at 04:59 PM.

  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Before we get down to this, as written, no monk base would take this class. The reason why is because of this line from the SRD:

    Quote Originally Posted by Monk "Unarmed Strike
    There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed.
    Therefore, based on all your class features, where you require a character to be making off-hand attacks with an unarmed strike, a monk would not qualify. I assume that was not your intent, so I'm bringing it to your attention.

    Swift Strike actually allows three attacks, since you hit with your sword, then get a free attack from Two Handed Combat Expert, then you get your unarmed attack from Swift Strike.

    I think you should put a hyphen in Two Handed Combat Expert. It just looks off without it. (Two-Handed Combat Expert seems right)

    Two-Handed Combat Expert, as written, clears away a lot of annoying feats for a TWF who takes this class. You don't need Improved, Greater, or Perfect TWF, nor do you need Double Hit or Two-Weapon Pounce. You get all of those, but better, for free. Pretty nice.

    To be honest, I don't know why you aren't advancing unarmed strike damage. The fluff of the class is that he's training with monks. He should be able to deal unarmed strike damage as a monk. I know it doesn't really matter, since the difference between 1d3 and 1d8 is an average of +2-3 damage per attack, but you'd be surprised how people love big dice with unarmed strikes. And yeah, you can buy a monk's belt, but you shouldn't have to.

    There is no reason to restrict the main hand weapon to a blade. If a guy wants to TWF with a hammer or an axe or a rapier or a dagger or even a club, you should let him. It's the same fighting style. I don't see why you would put any restriction on his main hand weapon (other than ensuring it isn't also an unarmed strike)

    Skills are good, but I would add Knowledge (Religion), as monks (even strangely oriental flavored monks in a traditionally Medieval European setting) often spend time studying religious texts.

    ...A deflection bonus, eh? That's a bit of a strange thing to give him. After all, he's using his weapons to parry, right? And yet you're giving him a bonus that he would retain even while flat-footed. If you want to keep the bonus type deflection, I would at least say "He loses this bonus to AC when he is flat-footed or would otherwise be denied his Dexterity bonus to his AC"

    You should know that the fist cannot have the keen weapon enhancement, as the fist is not a piercing or slashing weapon. I believe there is a weapon enhancement similar to it for bludgeoning weapons, but I can't remember the name or the source. (I would just say the fist threatens a critical on a natural 19-20 and it doesn't stack with any other effects). The maximized unarmed strike damage is laughable without unarmed damage progression, considering that any non-monk who took this class could expect an average increase of +1 damage per round. (from an average of 2 to a maximum of 3). And critical multipliers don't "double". That's a big no no no no no. A critical multiplier increases by 1, such as from 17-20/x2 with a keen longsword to 17-20/x3.

    Class looks like fun. Good job.

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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    The bludgeoning equivalent of keen is called impact; you can see it in the Magic Item Compendium.
    I think it would be simpler to just give the effects of the Improved Critical feat, especially if you expand the weapons usable in the main hand (which I think you should do).
    I also agree that it should have Monk unarmed damage progression.

    Question: when are the extra attacks from Whirling Blade made? It says you get an extra attack each round of combat, but not when you can make the attack...
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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Hmm, I hadn't thought of that, NeoSeraphi. Not quite sure how to clean the wording up to let Monks into this class. Any suggestions? And wouldn't that wording also rule out the Monk's ability to use TWF at all to begin with? I didn't think that was the case...

    Two-Handed Combat Expert is supposed to invalidate those crappy excuses for feats, so I'm glad you approve.

    The main reason I restricted it to blades was flavor. The class is supposed to fight with a sword and a fist. I didn't think that seemed too unbelievable. In fact, giving him the ability to use a warhammer seems a little less believable to me; I just can't see a guy with a hammer whirling his way across the battlefield. Still, that's two of you who want it...I'll think on it for a bit, though I'll be changing a lot of the class if I add them in, and probably make Whirlwind Strike a prerequisite.

    Hmm. My original idea was that they gave up the studiousness of traditional Monks to gain the extra power, but I suppose I could add that back in.

    I'll add in the bit about losing the deflection bonus, thanks for the catch.

    I'll have to change the wording on the final ability. Basically, I didn't see doubling the critical multiplier as a big deal, since all the swords he's proficient with for the ability only have a 2x multiplier, so a Whirling Blade with a keen longsword would have a crit of 13-20x4, which can at the earliest be gotten at level 11. Heck, you have an ability that adds one to crit multiplier? He now has 13-20x6. I don't see this as overpowered, especially since most every martial class ever that would take this needs the power boost.

    The extra attacks from Whirling Blade are added into his attack action, so if he makes a full round attack (assuming Fighter15/Whirling Fist5), his round would be +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5, and a standard attack action would be +20/+20/+20/+20.

    OK, his updates are added to the first post. Still need ideas for rewording to the abilities to let the Monk into this class, though.

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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Hmm, I hadn't thought of that, NeoSeraphi. Not quite sure how to clean the wording up to let Monks into this class. Any suggestions? And wouldn't that wording also rule out the Monk's ability to use TWF at all to begin with? I didn't think that was the case...
    I'm not going to get into that. There are threads all over the internet about whether monks are allowed to unarmed TWF. I personally don't see any reason to allow it when they already have Flurry of Blows.

    The main reason I restricted it to blades was flavor. The class is supposed to fight with a sword and a fist. I didn't think that seemed too unbelievable. In fact, giving him the ability to use a warhammer seems a little less believable to me; I just can't see a guy with a hammer whirling his way across the battlefield. Still, that's two of you who want it...I'll think on it for a bit, though I'll be changing a lot of the class if I add them in, and probably make Whirlwind Strike a prerequisite.
    Yeah, but people like options. The game always gives options. Homebrewing itself exists solely because people want more options. Limiting something due to flavor never goes over well with PEACHers (trust me, you can check my Slowknife thread if you don't believe me)

    Hmm. My original idea was that they gave up the studiousness of traditional Monks to gain the extra power, but I suppose I could add that back in.
    There's no reason why a monk who wanted to fight better would still abandon his religious training. (If he did, he wouldn't be a monk anymore, he'd be a warrior)

    I'll add in the bit about losing the deflection bonus, thanks for the catch.
    You're quite welcome.

    I'll have to change the wording on the final ability. Basically, I didn't see doubling the critical multiplier as a big deal, since all the swords he's proficient with for the ability only have a 2x multiplier, so a Whirling Blade with a keen longsword would have a crit of 13-20x4, which can at the earliest be gotten at level 11. Heck, you have an ability that adds one to crit multiplier? He now has 13-20x6. I don't see this as overpowered, especially since most every martial class ever that would take this needs the power boost.
    The problem with having such a high critical modifier is the availability of extra damage that would be multiplied to infinity and beyond because of that. Take a guy who has 38 Strength. Typical for a normal warrior at level 20. He threatens a critical hit 40% of the time, based on your math. He gets 7 longsword attacks per round, if he has a full-round attack. That means he has 7 different rolls of the d20, so, mathematically speaking, he'll be delivering a critical hit twice to three times per round. He deals 4d8+76 damage on a critical hit, assuming a +5 weapon and a x4 multiplier. If it's a x6 modifier, as you suggested, then it becomes 6d8+114 damage. Per hit. If he has a speed longsword, he gets an additional chance to crit per round.

    It's just a little bit too high, in my opinion.

    The extra attacks from Whirling Blade are added into his attack action, so if he makes a full round attack (assuming Fighter15/Whirling Fist5), his round would be +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5, and a standard attack action would be +20/+20/+20/+20.

    OK, his updates are added to the first post. Still need ideas for rewording to the abilities to let the Monk into this class, though.
    No, it would be +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 and +20/+20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5, with the second progression being an unarmed strike for every longsword hit. Or +20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20/+20 as a standard action, which is ridiculous.

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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Well, assume Monks can enter the class, then, and assume whatever hand the sword isn't in is their off hand.

    Alright, your math is a good convincer. I'll drop it to adding an additional 1x to the multiplier instead of doubling.

    And you forgot to take Flurry of Blows into account with number of attacks. A Monk15/Whirling Blade5 would get +16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 with the sword on a full round attack, and an unarmed strike to match on each successful hit, plus additional attacks if he has a speedblade or haste. The most I could get him up to in one round was 20 attacks with some optimization and assuming all his sword strikes hit, though if I dug a while I'm sure I could go higher.

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    Default Re: Blade and Fist (3.5 PrC, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    And you forgot to take Flurry of Blows into account with number of attacks. A Monk15/Whirling Blade5 would get +16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+16/+11/+6/+1 with the sword on a full round attack, and an unarmed strike to match on each successful hit, plus additional attacks if he has a speedblade or haste. The most I could get him up to in one round was 20 attacks with some optimization and assuming all his sword strikes hit, though if I dug a while I'm sure I could go higher.
    You can't flurry with a sword. Also, I really hope you meant Monk 11/Fighter 4/Whirling Blade 5, as after you get greater flurry, there's no reason to stay in monk for that build. (Abundant Step is nice, but that extra point of BAB and those bonus feats will be much more useful in the long run)

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