Sherlock (BBC)

[Sunken Valley]

No this is not about Downey Jr's and Ritchie's movie. This is about the BBC show, starring Benedict Cumberbatch as Holmes, Martin Freeman as Watson and written by Stephen Moffat, Mark Gattis and Stephen Thompson of Doctor Who fame.

It's coming on TV tonight at 8:10pm GMT then weekly for 2 more weeks. Who like's this?

[Eakin]

I saw this on Netflix back in October, loved it! Is this a second series or the original three episodes being re-aired?

[Sunken Valley]

I saw this on Netflix back in October, loved it! Is this a second series or the original three episodes being re-aired?

Second Series.

Tonight's ep is called "Scandle at Belgravia" (scandle at Bohemia). Written by Stephen Moffat (who did last year's premier and is the head writer of Doctor Who), it stars Laura Pulver as Irene Adler.

Next week it's "The Hounds of Baskerville" (We all know which book this is). Written by Mark Gattis (who did the final ep so far), Baskerville is a millitary lab.

Finally, it's "Richenbach Fall" (final problem). Written by Stephen Thompson (writer of last year's middle ep and is known for being the worst writer of Doctor Who ever), welcomes Moriarty's return to the show (although he's getting a cameo in ep 1).

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Urgh, I have to wait until BBC Canada picks it up. Which probably won't be for a month. Still, LOVED the first ones.

[Jahkaivah]

This thread interests me as it concerns a show that interests me.

[Dienekes]

Like the first three more than Doctor Who. I don't know if BBCA will pick it up, I'm a little worried about Thompson getting the season finale for it since I felt his contribution was weakest last season. Though I wouldn't call him the worst Who writer ever. Who wrote Love & Monsters again?

[Artemis97]

I know I've read that the second season was ebing picked up in the US, but I don't know if it's going to be on BBCA, because the first season played on PBS' Masterpiece Mystery. Looking at PBS' schedule, there are 3 episodes of Sherlock set to air on January 15, 22, and 29 at 10pm. I can't see if they're new or old episodes, though. Will do some more digging. I definately want to catch these.

Edit: Further investigation is showing a May 6th airing on PBS for the new season.

[Dienekes]

Edit: Further investigation is showing a May 6th airing on PBS for the new season.

Ughh. Fine I'll be back to this thread in 5 months.

[factotum]

Just watched it, and I thought it was awesome! Cumberbatch is just incredible as Holmes, although I wish they'd given Dr. Watson a bit more to do--yes, I realise the name of the show is "Sherlock", but Martin Freeman definitely got a bit more screen time in the first series.

[Sunken Valley]

Was going to do a full review on this. Not gonna bother. 10/10. I see this is where the Moffat I know and love is.

Twoquestions:

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Was it Irene who rang Moriarty to spare Holmes? The editing made it seem so but nothing else in the episode was "big" enough to make Moriarty react like that?

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Why did Irene give Holmes the phone if she wasn't dead? Irene would know Holmes would know she wasn't.

[Selrahc]

Was going to do a full review on this. Not gonna bother. 10/10. I see this is where the Moffat I know and love is.

Twoquestions:

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Was it Irene who rang Moriarty to spare Holmes? The editing made it seem so but nothing else in the episode was "big" enough to make Moriarty react like that?

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Why did Irene give Holmes the phone if she wasn't dead? Irene would know Holmes would know she wasn't.

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My impression:
The entire thing was a long con to get Sherlock to decode the message. Irene rang Moriaty and told him that she'd acquired an important but indecipherable coded mail, that only the great Sherlock Holmes could work out.

Possibly she didn't mention Sherlock, just the indecipherable code but Moriaty knew to put her onto Sherlock, after which the game commenced.

Then the "Blackmail" with the royals was to bait Mycroft into sending Sherlock to meet her.

[Aidan305]

Just finished watching the episode, felt it was excellent.

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Though it was a little obvious that Adler was still alive by the end of it. After all, Mycroft knows Sherlock and Watson well enough to realise which lie John will tell him and which Holmes will read off him. A good play by him, but not good enough?

And now I'll head to Holmes's website and John's blog to see if there's anything new on them.

[Iruka]

I only saw the pilot of the first series, but I liked it a lot. Now I hope there will be some reruns in german television so I can catch the others, too.

[Weezer]

Just finished it up, it was pretty much perfect. And Adler? So damn sexy. And portrayed as an excellent counterpoint to Holmes in a number of ways. My only quibble is this, and it's a minor one that only matters if you've read the original story.

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Alder was supposed to win in the end, he was the only person to ever best Holmes, which is one of the reasons she was so special to him. It would have been nice if Holmes had been shown to be truly fallible in the end, and been completely beaten, rather than simply partially beaten. Oh well.

[Serpentine]

Benedict Cumberbatch is possibly the most English name currently in existence. And my goodness he's pretty.

Can't wait to see the new series!

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

Benedict Cumberbatch is possibly the most English name currently in existence. And my goodness he's pretty.

Can't wait to see the new series!

Benedict Cumberbatch MUST be the most English name ever.
And apparently I look like him? I don't see it.

[Greenish]

YLE picked up the first series (which was awesome). Here's hoping they get the new one too.

[factotum]

As always with these things, thinking about the plot for a while afterwards does reveal to me a somewhat glaring plot hole (IMHO):

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This coded message had supposedly been on the phone for months before Sherlock saw it, so even if he correctly identified it as the seating plan for a 747, how on earth could he know that the flight leaving tomorrow is the one it referred to? Not to mention the massive coincidence that Irene came back and got him to decode it just then--24 hours later would have been too late!

[Sunken Valley]

Another question

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The plane was supposed to "save the world". How would it do so? Nobody would know that anything abnormal had happened. And how could the terrorists not know the plane would be full of dead people? Bombs aren't planted that far in advance.

Also,

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This ep was called "Scandle at Belgravia" which is a play on "Scandle at Bohemia". Whilst the show is an accurate re-imaging and Scandle's are involved, where does Belgravia come in? Bohemia was in the book, why no Belgravia?

[Aidan305]

Also,

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This ep was called "Scandle at Belgravia" which is a play on "Scandle at Bohemia". Whilst the show is an accurate re-imaging and Scandle's are involved, where does Belgravia come in? Bohemia was in the book, why no Belgravia?

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Belgravia was the area of London where Adler lived.

[Brother Oni]

As always with these things, thinking about the plot for a while afterwards does reveal to me a somewhat glaring plot hole (IMHO):

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This coded message had supposedly been on the phone for months before Sherlock saw it, so even if he correctly identified it as the seating plan for a 747, how on earth could he know that the flight leaving tomorrow is the one it referred to? Not to mention the massive coincidence that Irene came back and got him to decode it just then--24 hours later would have been too late!

Watching the episode again on iplayer, he explains all his reasoning:

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Sherlock does make the assumption that the crisis is imminent, since increased pressure had been recently put onto finding Irene.

He also mentions that there's no row 13, thus eliminating several less superstitious airlines, assumption of the locality of the information (although one of the world's most busiest airports isn't too much of a stretch).

I agree that knowing that's a specific plane is a bit of a stretch, however in my experience, flight numbers are often recycled, and since collecting enough dead bodies covertly (somewhere between 400-500 depending on the exact type of 747) is likely to take some time, it makes sense that the code is going to be around for months.

With regard to the timing, I do agree that it's a bit coincidental, but you need some authorial fiat to get a story going.

Another question

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The plane was supposed to "save the world". How would it do so? Nobody would know that anything abnormal had happened. And how could the terrorists not know the plane would be full of dead people? Bombs aren't planted that far in advance.

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The 'save the world' part is probably exaggeration on the part of the civil servant who was trying to impress Irene, but letting a 747 explode in the current political climate wouldn't be good, to put it lightly.

There's no information on how the terrorists planned to get the bomb onto the aircraft (obviously not as passengers), but it was mentioned that the US and UK Governments knew that a bomb was going to be planted, but were intending to let it explode anyway.

Suppose the reason how they knew the bomb was going to be planted, was that an agent had infiltrated the terrorist cell and manipulated them into planting the bomb, ostensibly for some sort of political gain (further pressure on the rest of the government to enact a harsher security bill/measure)?
The bomb planting is easy - the mole volunteers to do it and just gives it over to his handlers.

You get all the public outrage at the bombing, all the finger pointing at intelligence 'failures', but no lawsuits from the victim's relatives.
Terrorists get swept up in the resulting security crackdown (which should be a piece of cake since the mole knows where they all are), more funding for the various intelligence services and nobody really died, so it's a win situation all round for the 'good guys'.

You can obviously see why security leaks of this plan would be an issue - Moriaty bluffed Mycroft with a fragment of information which was enough to derail the entire thing.

My turn for questions, or rather little nitpicks:

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I wasn't aware that qualified doctors could join anything other than the RAMC, especially if they're going in as an army doctor, so Watson being part of the 5th Northumberland Fusiliers was a bit surprising.

However given that the 5th was amalgamated into the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers back in 1968, I suspect that they didn't research it too carefully.

Irene's measurements look right on the money though.

[alwaysowls]

There were parts of the episode that were fantastic, and there were parts that were... less so.

I wish they hadn't given Moffat the episode with Irene Adler. Much respect for the guy, but writing women is not his forte. And, well...

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...it kind of pisses me off that this supposedly empowered, brilliant, confident woman is ultimately reduced to a damsel in distress to be rescued by Sherlock. She begins the episode as a lesbian who flirts with Sherlock and pretends to fall for him in order to manipulate him. But Sherlock's sexy, sexy brain somehow manages to turn her straight and make her actually fall in love, and in the end she's left begging for mercy. Finally, she finds herself imprisoned, seconds from being beheaded, until her beloved comes to the rescue, to her tearful relief.

What the hell. Seriously. What the hell.

I'm also rather annoyed by...

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...the absolute cop-out resolution to last season's cliffhanger.

OMG! Moriarty has snipers ready to take out Sherlock and John! And Sherlock's levelling his own gun at the bomb lying between them, ready to blow all three of them to hell! [What could possibly happen next?

What's that? Oh, never mind. Moriarty's got a phone call, guess we'll have to reschedule this dramatic stand-off for the next end-of-season cliffhanger.

You can call off the snipers, by the way. Yeah, I know Moriarty said he wasn't going to let the two of them live, but you know him, he's so ~crazy~.

Sorry? You wanted some kind of emotional resolution? uhhh... HERE! HAVE A RAPID-FIRE MONTAGE OF DETECTIVE CASES!

Other than that, it was a good episode. But the way they handled Irene in particular really pisses me off.

[Androgeus]

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She begins the episode as a lesbian.

Given her profession I would have though she was bisexual.

[Brother Oni]

There were parts of the episode that were fantastic, and there were parts that were... less so.

I wish they hadn't given Moffat the episode with Irene Adler. Much respect for the guy, but writing women is not his forte. And, well...

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...it kind of pisses me off that this supposedly empowered, brilliant, confident woman is ultimately reduced to a damsel in distress to be rescued by Sherlock. She begins the episode as a lesbian who flirts with Sherlock and pretends to fall for him in order to manipulate him. But Sherlock's sexy, sexy brain somehow manages to turn her straight and make her actually fall in love, and in the end she's left begging for mercy. Finally, she finds herself imprisoned, seconds from being beheaded, until her beloved comes to the rescue, to her tearful relief.

What the hell. Seriously. What the hell.

I believe:

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that being captured by a terrorist cell and being prepared for execution by beheading is so far out of her comfort zone and any frame of reference she might have, that being reduced to tearful relief is more than acceptable.

She's a dominatrix, not an international secret agent. The fact that she kept it together enough to send a text message (seriously, you try retaining fine motor control in a situation like that) shows she has some strength of character.

I'm also rather annoyed by...

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...the absolute cop-out resolution to last season's cliffhanger.

OMG! Moriarty has snipers ready to take out Sherlock and John! And Sherlock's levelling his own gun at the bomb lying between them, ready to blow all three of them to hell! [What could possibly happen next?

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Absolutely nothing would happen. That was plastic explosive in the vest, which needs high temperature and a powerful shock in order to explode. Shooting it with a gun (unless the gunshot was very lucky and triggered the detonator) wouldn't do anything to it.

Was it a complete cop-out? I'd say mostly, but as others have mentioned, it was probably Irene who saved their Holmes and Watson, so at least it's an explainable cop-out.

In any case, Moriaty and Holmes can't kill each other until the Reichenbach Falls.

[factotum]

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She begins the episode as a lesbian who flirts with Sherlock and pretends to fall for him in order to manipulate him. But Sherlock's sexy, sexy brain somehow manages to turn her straight

I'm pretty sure we only have her word for that:

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She says to Watson when they meet at Battersea Power Station that she loves women, but that's all part of the ploy to get Sherlock to do her decoding, remember. Even if you take it at face value, it's entirely possible she's bisexual, as Androgeus points out.

[alwaysowls]

I believe:

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that being captured by a terrorist cell and being prepared for execution by beheading is so far out of her comfort zone and any frame of reference she might have, that being reduced to tearful relief is more than acceptable.

She's a dominatrix, not an international secret agent. The fact that she kept it together enough to send a text message (seriously, you try retaining fine motor control in a situation like that) shows she has some strength of character.

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Certainly; it's not that moment in isolation that renders the characterisation annoying, but rather the way the character was handled throughout the episode. It's the fact that Moffat took her from being a powerful woman in control to a damsel in distress waiting for her knight to save her. It's the fact that she identifies as a lesbian, right up until the point where she falls for the male protagonist. It's the fact that a character initially presented as fiercely intelligent, canny and resourceful is ultimately revealed to be a pawn in the battle of wits between Sherlock and Moriarty, who's been relying on advice and aid from the latter.

You're right, she's no secret agent, and of course a person in that situation would be scared out of their mind. But it's the implications behind that scene that are troubling - the sexually powerful woman laid low, and needing her handsome prince to come and rescue her.

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Absolutely nothing would happen. That was plastic explosive in the vest, which needs high temperature and a powerful shock in order to explode. Shooting it with a gun (unless the gunshot was very lucky and triggered the detonator) wouldn't do anything to it.

Was it a complete cop-out? I'd say mostly, but as others have mentioned, it was probably Irene who saved their Holmes and Watson, so at least it's an explainable cop-out.

In any case, Moriaty and Holmes can't kill each other until the Reichenbach Falls.

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Mm. I kind of get the feeling they'd written themselves into a corner with the season 1 finale and couldn't figure out a better way out of it. It's more of a minor annoyance to me, as opposed to the handling of Irene - but still, I wish we'd been given some kind of proper resolution to the previous episode.

And don't be silly! We all know the writers will magically resurrect Sherlock after Reichenbach Falls so they can cash in on season three! Just following after Conan Doyle's illustrious example, of course.

I'm looking forward to that episode; it'll be fun to see how the writers interpret the Reichenbach Falls fight.

I'm pretty sure we only have her word for that:

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She says to Watson when they meet at Battersea Power Station that she loves women, but that's all part of the ploy to get Sherlock to do her decoding, remember. Even if you take it at face value, it's entirely possible she's bisexual, as Androgeus points out.

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You're right, it's very possible she's bi, and given what a keen manipulator she is she could well have been lying. But again, the implications - a woman saying she's gay before falling in love with the male lead - are very unfortunate.

[Sunken Valley]

Welcome to every single portrayal of Irene Adler in movie history alwaysowls.

At least they didn't put her on a conveyer belt of doom like they did in the American movie.

[Howler Dagger]

My biggest problem with it was that the phone's code was

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The worst pun you could make on a Sherlock Holmes show

[Flickerdart]

What I wonder is this:

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The only reason Moriarty spares Holmes and Watson is because Adler needed them to break her code. But then they did, and then Adler lost her phone, along with all her usefulness. What's stopping Moriarty from sending some top men after the duo, considering that he already decided to kill them at the pool?

[Axolotl]

What I wonder is this:

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The only reason Moriarty spares Holmes and Watson is because Adler needed them to break her code. But then they did, and then Adler lost her phone, along with all her usefulness. What's stopping Moriarty from sending some top men after the duo, considering that he already decided to kill them at the pool?

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Nothing, which is probably why The Final Problem is being adapted this series.