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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    The Mod Wonder: This is me, hijacking Alejandro's OP. Per the one topic, one thread rules, please direct all conversation about announcements regarding 5e/D&D Next to this thread. If there are other 5e threads in the Roleplaying Section (including subforums), please report them and we'll combine them.




    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/10/ar...ted=1&_r=4&hpw
    Last edited by Mark Hall; 2012-01-10 at 09:11 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    It is also already up on the WotC website: http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.a...d/4ll/20120109

    Charting the Course for D&D: Your Voice, Your Game
    Legends & Lore
    Mike Mearls
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As you may have read in the New York Times, its an exciting time for Dungeons & Dragons. We are happy to announce today that we are developing the next iteration of D&D, and will be looking to the legions of D&D fans to help shape the future of the game along with us.

    Our mission is to ensure that D&D enters its next 40 years as a vibrant, growing, and exciting game. By listening to the needs of the D&D community, we can meet this goal. As part of our increased efforts to engage with the player-base, we launched a series of weekly articles in early 2011, including Rule of Three and Legends & Lore, to give you a voice in our work. Weve listened to both praise and criticism from all D&D fans, regardless of their edition of choice, and well continue to do so.

    That is why we are excited to share with you that starting in Spring 2012, we will be taking this process one step further and conducting ongoing open playtests with the gaming community to gather feedback on the new iteration of the game as we develop it. With your feedback and involvement, we can make D&D better than ever. We seek to build a foundation for the long-term health and growth of D&D, one rooted in the vital traits that make D&D unique and special. We want a game that rises above differences of play styles, campaign settings, and editions, one that takes the fundamental essence of D&D and brings it to the forefront of the game. In short, we want a game that is as simple or complex as you please, its action focused on combat, intrigue, and exploration as you desire. We want a game that is unmistakably D&D, but one that can easily become your D&D, the game that you want to run and play.

    D&D is more than just a set of rules for fantasy gaming. It launched an entire gaming genre and played a pivotal role in creating the entirety of the gaming industry, both analog and digital. The game has lived and thrived because it has awoken a spark of creation, visions of daring adventure, wondrous vistas, and untold horrors that pull us all together as a community of RPG fans. It is the countless players and DMs who have brought it to life over the years. The game is at its best when it is yours.

    For that reason, we want your participation. The goals we have set for ourselves are by no means trivial or easy. By involving you in this process, we can build a set of D&D rules that incorporate the wants and desires of D&D gamers around the world. We want to create a flexible game, rich with options for players and DMs to embrace or reject as they see fit, a game that brings D&D fans together rather than serves as one more category to splinter us apart.

    We have begun obtaining feedback from a limited Friends & Family playtest consisting of internal employees and their gaming groups and soon we will be expanding that group to consist of members from our existing body of playtesters. Then at the D&D Experience convention in late January, Wizards of the Coast will conduct a special playtest of ideas currently in development. The D&D Experience will be moving to Gen Con in 2013, so as a convention special this year, we will be offering show attendees a first-look at a draft of the new set of rules. Then beginning sometime in the spring, we will begin open playtesting. Through our web site, we will release a growing set of rules, classes, monsters and other materials for your study and feedback. We seek to reach as many people as possible, from the gamer who just started with D&D last week to the gaming group that has been together since the early-1970s. For this process to work, we want to give a voice to all D&D fans and players of all previous editions of the game.

    The next year is going to be an exciting one. There is a lot of work to be done, and Im hoping you have the time, energy, and inclination to pitch in. We sure hope you do, as we seek to make gaming history by shaping the future of D&D, together.
    And some discussion: 5E?
    Last edited by Matthew; 2012-01-09 at 10:25 AM.
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    Default [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Thought I would share for anyone who missed it.

    What would you most want to see in a completely new edition? What would you most want WotC to avoid? Would you ever consider switching from your favorite edition?

    I'm a little too in love with Pathfinder at this point to be too excited, but I'll be keeping an eye on it.
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    Knowledge (local) being trained only, and not a class skill for many classes, means that your average human may well not be able to identify other humans! This may explain the exceptional quantity of half-human hybrids.

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Can I PLEASE get a game that still gives Magic and Psionics power but allows Melee to have options and relevancy Ala the Tome of Battle Classes, and allows for a better laid out and possibly powered up version of Magic of Incarnum?
    "I Burn!"

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Oooh man, I'm glad I got to this before the edition war debates started...

    Honestly? 4e's balance and polish with regards to combat (except rebalanced to allow for PvP), 3.5's flexibility, options, and mid-career multiclassing, crunch for roleplaying at least on the order of PF's skill system (though hopefully more on the order of what some other games bring), the return of the OGL, PDFs for every book released, removal of 4e's constant churn of erratta, and the return of THAC0 and lower AC being better (purely for nostalgia's sake). Oh, and a better system for playing monsters/monstrous races. Also, fully detailed and updated setting books, with splat support, for Planescape and Spelljammer.

    Never happen, but I can wish!

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    Oh, and a better system for playing monsters/monstrous races.
    This part I Like!

    Edit: Now that I think about it, some of the neat things Pathfinder did, like expanded rules for early fire arms for more pirate/steam punk games, and Wizards having Item Familiars and Paladins have special sword/lance that upgrades with them, would be pretty sweet.
    Last edited by Metahuman1; 2012-01-09 at 11:46 AM.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    I am excite!

    INITIATE ANTI-EDITION WAR SHIELD!

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by CTrees View Post
    4e's balance and polish with regards to combat (except rebalanced to allow for PvP), 3.5's flexibility, options, and mid-career multiclassing, crunch for roleplaying at least on the order of PF's skill system (though hopefully more on the order of what some other games bring), the return of the OGL, PDFs for every book released, removal of 4e's constant churn of erratta. Oh, and a better system for playing monsters/monstrous races.
    This pretty much sums up my feelings (I removed the offending call for Thaco). I would also like the melee classes to be closer to TOB in terms of the options they have in a given situation, if not necessarily the actual mechanics.

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by JackRackham View Post
    This pretty much sums up my feelings (I removed the offending call for Thaco). I would also like the melee classes to be closer to TOB in terms of the options they have in a given situation, if not necessarily the actual mechanics.
    Also, PCs and monsters that function by the same rules, for the sake of world consistency please

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    I would like it to have neither 4.0s "every class does different things, but in the same way" and 3.5s "every class does the same thing, but in different ways." Legitimately distinct classes without the constant overlap would be nice.

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    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    I don't really care. I'll check it out but just like people that still play 3.X I think I'm going to stick with my 4e.
    Now if 5e plays like delicious Cream Soda then I may change over systems but probably not
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by LordBlades View Post
    Also, PCs and monsters that function by the same rules, for the sake of world consistency please
    Seriously I really hope not. The way 4e handled monsters (in terms of ease of use) is one of the best things that WotC did in 4e. It makes things infinitely easier on a DM trying to figure out what his party can and cannot handle, and it's also much easier and faster to run monsters with only a couple of powers vs monsters with a full PC stat block. The only change I'd want to see is in the core math, where monsters typically have a little too much HP and too little damage, particularly at higher levels. The benefit of getting PCs who can play as monstrous races is dubious at best. While strange/exotic races are relatively popular on the internet, my experience is that the vast majority of gaming groups don't like them even if they are perfectly balanced.
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by JackRackham View Post
    (I removed the offending call for Thaco)
    Heh, even I will acknowledge that what 3.0 introduced accomplishes the same thing as 2e's to hit system, but in an objectively better manner. However, THAC0 was the biggest thing which tripped me up about 3.0, and is one of the few early edition things that just hits major nostalgia for me. I don't actually understand it. It's like how githyanki are my favorite race - why? Dunno, I just like 'em.

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    A) Rules that are consistent with the concept of being a world simulator. Not as in the DM having to work through rules to figure out everything that happens in the world, but in the sense of the world making logical sense if the rules are taken literally as the game world's version of physics.
    B) Complex and varied options and interactions, in both fluff and mechanics.
    C) A simple reliable metric for character (and monster) power, such that knowing this one number (character level, challenge rating, or equivalent) is enough for DMs to judge likely encounter difficulty, possibly with caveats about the presence or absence of particular abilities.

    Yes, these requirements (particularly B and C) place conflicting and opposing demands on the nature of the rules system that are difficult to resolve. Resolving them anyway is WotC's job and doing it successfully would justify a high price for the game.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    The question is whether it is going to be more like 3e and 4e which were big departures or will this be closer to 1e and 2e which were more like taking the previous material and tweaking it.

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    I can has sorcerer in the Player's Handbook 1, and not have to wait a year for the Player's Handbook 2?

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Metahuman1 View Post
    Can I PLEASE get a game that still gives Magic and Psionics power but allows Melee to have options and relevancy Ala the Tome of Battle Classes, and allows for a better laid out and possibly powered up version of Magic of Incarnum?
    Ooh, can we bring back Exp for Treasure too? Monsters give less Xp to account for that.
    Focus game on exploration and looting (like the old editions).

    So while you can fight (even rogues with their maneuevers*), you get more bang for the buck just looting and running.

    *Yes, I think all class should have maneuvers like ToB but not the way 4E did it. But the way Sublime Way/ToB does it (with rechargable maneuvers whether like swordsage or Warblade).
    4E decided no recharging in battle (well, later they had Prc to get around that, but you know what I mean) unlike ToB.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    Quote Originally Posted by MeeposFire View Post
    The question is whether it is going to be more like 3e and 4e which were big departures or will this be closer to 1e and 2e which were more like taking the previous material and tweaking it.
    Or 3.0 to 3.5.

    One interesting thing about the official Wizards article: Mike never mentions the phrasing "5th Edition" anywhere, just "the next iteration." They might choose to officially number this one 4.5 or something.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    Somewhere they stated that they are still deciding how to name it.
    But I guess with everyone calling it 5th Edition now, they probably won't come up with something different when they present more details in three weeks.
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Seriously I really hope not. The way 4e handled monsters (in terms of ease of use) is one of the best things that WotC did in 4e. It makes things infinitely easier on a DM trying to figure out what his party can and cannot handle, and it's also much easier and faster to run monsters with only a couple of powers vs monsters with a full PC stat block. The only change I'd want to see is in the core math, where monsters typically have a little too much HP and too little damage, particularly at higher levels. The benefit of getting PCs who can play as monstrous races is dubious at best. While strange/exotic races are relatively popular on the internet, my experience is that the vast majority of gaming groups don't like them even if they are perfectly balanced.
    It's tough to make monsters with the same rules as players, but from everything I've heard Legend has pretty much nailed it. Have you taken a look at what they're doing?
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    It's tough to make monsters with the same rules as players, but from everything I've heard Legend has pretty much nailed it. Have you taken a look at what they're doing?
    Yes, I have, and have voiced my displeasure with their system in the Legend thread. I like the rules for PCs, but 4 tracks worth of abilities for an average enemy is too much junk to keep track of, especially if you want any sort of encounter diversity. I liked 4e's monsters because I could have a diverse group of opponents filling different roles with different abilities, and still have it be easily manageable both to balance and run. Legend in my opinion is even worse as far as enemy complexity than 3.5 is.
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Joseph Silver View Post
    I can has sorcerer in the Player's Handbook 1, and not have to wait a year for the Player's Handbook 2?
    Now that you say it. Spell Slots would be one thing that would make me not want to play the game. I'd be fine with spell points, though.
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    If anything form 4E stays, it should be some of the Fluff. I'd like to see it merged with SELECTIVE bits of fluff form 3.5 and Pathfinder myself.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Mando Knight View Post
    Or 3.0 to 3.5.

    One interesting thing about the official Wizards article: Mike never mentions the phrasing "5th Edition" anywhere, just "the next iteration." They might choose to officially number this one 4.5 or something.
    They might but I think calling it 5e and then make it a revision might go over better than a ".5" even if they looked exactly the same.

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    One of the things I really liked about 4E was minions, with their ability to still be relevant in combat in large numbers, but not cause instant TPK. Other than templating the heck out of low level monsters, there wasn't a lot like that in 3.5 (you could use epic templates like Paragon to a similar effect, but that is about it).

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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Quote Originally Posted by Urpriest View Post
    It's tough to make monsters with the same rules as players, but from everything I've heard Legend has pretty much nailed it. Have you taken a look at what they're doing?
    That's actually one of the underwhelming parts of the Legend system in my opinion. The enemies seem to all end up similar, and have a bit too many abilities: especially when you want to make simple enemies like grunts or minions.

    What I do enjoy about monster creation in 3rd edition is that you can really diversify enemies by adding PC class levels and/or items, which I think is one of the few advantages to using the same rules for monsters and players. One thing that annoyed me about 4e monsters were how enemy humanoids (who you'd expect to have similar rules/stats to players) were treated closer to monsters than players. This caused strange dfferences when PCs get NPC allies, or when enemies turn against eachother.
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    Default Re: [3.5/PF/4.0] 5.0 in the News

    Wow, this came earlier then I expected.

    Anywho, my hope is that they combine the best parts of 3.5 and 4E and leave out the parts that sucked in each.

    Specifically, my preference would be for a balanced template of power progression (4E or Legend) and combine it with significant, meaningful, fun powers (3.X, 3.5R, Pathfinder) and leave out the cruddy minor bonuses and insignificant Feats/Powers/etc that were a feature in both games.

    Also, it'd be easy to address the whole "should monsters be simple or just like PCs" issue by doing BOTH. Each monster can have a simple/balanced pre-generated set of abilities, with an optional "Track" of abilities for players who want to play that monster or DMs who want to customize and/or progress the creature.
    Last edited by Person_Man; 2012-01-09 at 02:32 PM.

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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    Numbered editions are so last century. They'll probably call it D&D Vista or something.
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    Default Re: D&D 5th Edition makes the New York Times

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Numbered editions are so last century. They'll probably call it D&D Vista or something.
    Actually haven't they gone back to numbers...woo windows 7.

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