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2012-03-29, 06:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
I would like to point out a little something. We always knew that Yamamoto had the strongest spiritual preasure. And according to her bio (The Bleach data book?), Retsu Unohana Captain of the 4th had the third stongest Captain (Note she had been Captain of the 4th since it's creation). Jūshirō Ukitake and Shunsui Kyōraku always seemed be be about on pare with each other and that would have put them at 4/5. So that kind of left the #2 spot open.
As for why Chojiro was taken out so quickly by Ichigo way back when, it may have simple been overconfidence. He didn't expect Ichigo to be so fast or so strong (and use quite such a "direct" style) and left himself open to get decked.
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2012-03-29, 07:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
I would like to point out a little something. We always knew that Yamamoto had the strongest spiritual preasure. And according to her bio (The Bleach data book?), Retsu Unohana Captain of the 4th had the third stongest Captain (Note she had been Captain of the 4th since it's creation). Jūshirō Ukitake and Shunsui Kyōraku always seemed be be about on pare with each other and that would have put them at 4/5. So that kind of left the #2 spot open.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-29, 07:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Well, I'd treated the Shihakusho as being proof of Sasakibe having a bankai (since the only wearer who hasn't had a bankai was Kenpachi Zaraki) since the Turn Back the Pendulum arc- but it's nice to see that confirmed...
I think we got the chance to briefly see Sasakibe in battle during one of the anime exclusive arcs though- up against the manifestation of his own Zanpakutou...
With regards to the discussion of fashion in soul society, if the anime was ongoing, I'd say that would end up in a filler episode (either through Urahara trying to market it, or as part of the efforts of the shinigami women's association).Part of YugiohITPAvatar by Smuchmuch
Warning: This post may contain traces of nuts, madness and/or sarcasm, you have been warned.
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2012-03-29, 10:07 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Last edited by Psyren; 2012-03-29 at 10:08 AM.
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2012-03-29, 12:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
The book also has both Gin and Kenpachi being weaker than Soi Fon and Hitsugaya, so take it with a grain of salt. It also has Kenpachi being considerably weaker than Tosen despite beating him.
Nor is it unlikely that Tosen manage to lose against a opponent who is weaker than himself, if he gets to overconfident and forget just what kind of psyko he is fighting.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-29, 01:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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2012-03-29, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2009
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Those stats just showed how good they were in certain areas, they aren't supposed to be added up to create a captain ranking.
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2012-03-29, 02:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Warriors & Wuxia: A community world-building project focused on low-magic wuxia/kung-fu action using ToB.
"These 'no-nonsense' solutions of yours just don't hold water in a complex world of jet-powered apes and time travel."
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2012-03-29, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2006
Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Kenpachi took on Zero Espada, and Gin kills you with one hit from his Bankai, unless you are Aizen with infused Hoygouky.
As for Gin, he still needs to hit, and so far his rate of succes isnt to good, we cant know if there are other ways to avoid it as well.
Just a bit of a stickler, but Hitsugaya didn't win crap. He said Harribel would die once all those little flowers fell, but lo and behold she was just fine once she was broken out, which I'm not convinced she couldn't have done on her own.
He managet to capture his opponent in ice according to his fighting style, and she stayed there until someone else came and broke her out.
And im firmly convinced that its something she could not have done on her own, or else she would have done so.Last edited by lord_khaine; 2012-03-29 at 03:08 PM.
thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-29, 04:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Well pulling those up briefly yields:
Kenpachi: Offense (100), Defense (80), Mobility (60), Kidō/Reiatsu (0), Intelligence (50), Physical Strength (100). Total: 390/600
Hitsugaya: Offense (80), Defense (80), Mobility (90), Kidō/Reiatsu (90), Intelligence (80), Physical Strength (80). Total: 500/600.
Soi Fon: Offense (80), Defense (60), Mobility (100), Kidō/Reiatsu (60), Intelligence (60), Physical Strength (100). Total: 460/600
Given that there's a big fat zero in there, doesn't use shunpo just moves really fast, and of course that Kenpachi if not precisely dumb isn't exactly brainy its no wonder he's got comparatively low stats overall... but that's like complaining about a Fighter not have strong Int or Cha, what does it cost him?
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2012-03-29, 06:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
also worth mentioning is that the scale doesn't represent his rietsu (which is enormous) properly because they inexplicably linked it to kido (which he cant use).
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 04:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Thanks for providing that information, it does help to clear the disussion.
Given that there's a big fat zero in there, doesn't use shunpo just moves really fast, and of course that Kenpachi if not precisely dumb isn't exactly brainy its no wonder he's got comparatively low stats overall... but that's like complaining about a Fighter not have strong Int or Cha, what does it cost him?
It would also be an annoyance if he were forced to act out his low Int
also worth mentioning is that the scale doesn't represent his rietsu (which is enormous) properly because they inexplicably linked it to kido (which he cant use).
And at the same time the passive defense it provides him are represented by his defense score, who are quite high for a guy whose idea of fighting defensively is start trying to block some of the attacksthnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-30, 05:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Last edited by thubby; 2012-03-30 at 05:10 AM.
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 07:10 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
he's been known to use its concussive force.
though if you're going to give him a 0 for that, you have to give a 0 to everyone that isn't byakuya or yamamoto, as they're the only ones that use kido on anyone that's a legitimate threat. even in the face of death.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-30, 07:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
the most obvious is when he fights espada #5.
that would mean mayuri (100), whos only kido/magic is a manufactured chemical is more powerful than byakuya's (90) lightning, shields, bindings, and weird magic sword things from his bankai.
i dont buy that.
edit: offense and defense are derivative values. that has implications.Last edited by thubby; 2012-03-30 at 07:37 AM.
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
i has 2/4 an internets.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 07:46 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
I think Zaraki's use of reiatsu is covered mostly under Offense since his use of it is basically let it leak out and is less refined then even simple kido. Everything a Soul Reaper does is basically use spiritual power at a basic level afterall. While we can argue they made a mistake It would seem evident they meant kido (and kido-like abilities) such as Hitsugaya being able to freeze things that are more polished conceptually then just slinging a lot of power around which is what Kenpachi does.
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2012-03-30, 08:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 08:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
the most obvious is when he fights espada #5.
that would mean mayuri (100), whos only kido/magic is a manufactured chemical is more powerful than byakuya's (90) lightning, shields, bindings, and weird magic sword things from his bankai.
i dont buy that.
Because really, what he has done with those chemicals have been impressive enough anyway, like their instant paralysation of espada level opponents, or regeneration from having lost about ½ your torse.
edit: offense and defense are derivative values. that has implications.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-30, 08:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
To start with we actualy hear from Shunsui that Mayuri is apperently really skilled at kido
and again, if he had it, he didnt use it despite feeling his enemy warranted using bankai on.
and the case of uryu obliterating him, in the face of near death.
in what way could it not be true?
being able to spew lighning (kido) from your hands would definitely make you have more offense.a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 09:15 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Given the practically zero separation AFAIK between magic and technology with Soul Reapers I think Mayuri's mad science directly reflects his kido mastery. He's just not specialized in (or at least using) the two well defined paths we see most.
Your level of trust has no precisely zero bearing on canon and is irrelevant.
Now if this were say a versus thread and you want to take a position that "never uses them so won't" it would be a fair point, because obviously for whatever reason good or bad they broadly speaking don't use the various spells. This is entirely different then whether or not they actually have the ability, where Informed means they do.
in what way could it not be true?
being able to spew lighning (kido) from your hands would definitely make you have more offense.
It by contrast is my opinion that Offense is fairly consistent in this context for being basic brawling prowess. Zaraki can hit really hard and fast with a sword and otherwise make mincemeat out of you if you are an idiot enough to try and take him on in a stand-up fight.
Where kido separates is in letting you do more then brawl. Yamamoto and Kenpachi have the same offense rating of 100... but when the former of the two swings his sword it also burns down a town from the high level fire effects Yamamot can generate. Which Kenpachi has absolutely nothing similar with. And thats still a fairly straight difference, at some point special abilities don't even enter into the stats.
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2012-03-30, 09:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2005
Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
ok, to rephrase. informed abilities have been wrong so many times because kubo sucks at keeping track of his own canon. which makes something from any 1/2 way decent fanfic as likely to be true as an informed ability. i didn't feel like being that harsh on kubo, but at the end of it all the fact remains that unless we SEE it, theres no reason to think its true.
and thanks to trollzen even THAT's contestable -,-a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 10:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
and again, if he had it, he didnt use it despite feeling his enemy warranted using bankai on.
and the case of uryu obliterating him, in the face of near death.
As for the near dead experience he had, then i cant see how you can say anything from that, it wasnt like he were in any state to do anything else than run away.
in what way could it not be true?
being able to spew lighning (kido) from your hands would definitely make you have more offense.thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar
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2012-03-30, 10:24 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
a tiny space dedicated to a beloved grandpa now passed. may every lunch be peanut butter-banana sandwiches.
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gnome_4ever:
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2012-03-30, 11:27 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
I don't trust rankings that say Soi Fon has more physical strength than Yamamoto. It's ridiculous.
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2012-03-30, 11:37 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Yeah, the supposed "official" numbers are really off the wall when you actually sit down and compare them. I wouldn't put any stock into them whatsoever.
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2012-03-30, 11:58 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Um... 4:15-4:30. Give more credit to Kenpachi
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2012-03-30, 01:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-30, 01:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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2012-03-30, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
*ahem*
Supernatural setting. Ichigo is wimpy compared to Kenpachi, but is undoubtedly stronger. Yachiru, despite being, like, seven years old physically, can pick up and carry Ken-chan effortlessly. Menos Grande Gillian, who are sky-scraper-size monstroties, are explicitly weaker than human-sized Vasto Lorde.
Soi-Fon may have the body of 12-year-old girl, but that doesn't preclude her from being insanely powerful in this setting."It's the fate of all things under the sky,
to grow old and wither and die."
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2012-03-30, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)
Uh... sorry, but since you're here I can presume you read manga or at least watch anime? How often does physical size mean anything in this medium? Seriously? I mean, look at the physically strongest characters in Naruto. Of them, only Raikage has any mass; Tsunade and Gai are both tiny. Or Dragon Ball. Goku as a kid was insanely strong despite not having any mass on him; he became more realistically muscled as an adult, but there were still plenty of muscle-free characters who nevertheless had insane strength.
Last edited by Drolyt; 2012-03-30 at 01:39 PM. Reason: typo