Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[Fjolnir]

one of the quincy appeared to use some sort of MASSIVE cannonade of spirit energy...

[Callos_DeTerran]

If you happen to become shinigami, otherwise it is probably fairly high up on the crappy afterlife scale...

This is based entirely on the assumption that the afterlife should be good in the first place. The afterlife being a better/good place is a distinctly Western notion from all I've read on the subject. In Eastern philosophies the after-life tends to just be another 'place', neither better nor worse.

[HandofShadows]

The SS is certainly a LOT better than the other place you can end up.

[Drolyt]

This is based entirely on the assumption that the afterlife should be good in the first place. The afterlife being a better/good place is a distinctly Western notion from all I've read on the subject. In Eastern philosophies the after-life tends to just be another 'place', neither better nor worse.

Er, that depends on what you mean by "Eastern Philosophies". Buddhism and Hinduism both have the whole karma thing with hundreds of possible heavens and hells similar to the Abrahamic religions. I'm not actually familiar with pre-Buddhist Chinese and Japanese beliefs on the afterlife though. But it is true that not all afterlives are pleasant, the ancient Mesopotamian beliefs were pretty depressing. Still, after the 50th district people are too poor to wear sandals? That's... a bit extreme.

As for the chapter itself, I liked it. A bit of intrigue is good.

[Soras Teva Gee]

This is based entirely on the assumption that the afterlife should be good in the first place. The afterlife being a better/good place is a distinctly Western notion from all I've read on the subject. In Eastern philosophies the after-life tends to just be another 'place', neither better nor worse.

Well its not quite that I understand. Though I'm no expert on Eastern religions and concluded many sources I can read are at best only scratching the surface. While not the sublime perfection of Christian imagining there still exists an idea for a Heaven as being somewhat better then Earth. With the major difference theologically being that these are not eternal destinations in the long run. However if you merit getting sent to heaven its still more of a reward then say a Hades or a Hell.

Nor is Heaven that nessecarily a rare a depiction in anime. Compare Soul Society to say DBZ's Other World.

[HandofShadows]

It might be that the Soul Society is not really "the final stop". It could be that the SS is place where the souls that are not so bad, but not so good go. If you die in the SS you go back to the world of the living to try again. We do know there are other realms out there other than the SS. So maybe there is a heaven out there and we just have not seen it. (As a note, did anyone ever realize that we have not seen a single famous person in the SS? No Einstein or Bacon or Sun Tzu ).

[Axinian]

Holy carp! The villain is actually being kind of smart about something! (Aizen doesn't count, he had cheat codes). Lure the greatest threat to you away, THEN invade! Basic, but I was honestly expecting a more unnecessarily complicated and stupid plan from Kubo.

I don't know how long the fight with Ichigo would honestly take though. They better take over Soul Society pretty quickly. I mean, that captain dude obviously as some arse-pull super-mode to prolong things, but still.

[Frozen_Feet]

This is based entirely on the assumption that the afterlife should be good in the first place. The afterlife being a better/good place is a distinctly Western notion from all I've read on the subject. In Eastern philosophies the after-life tends to just be another 'place', neither better nor worse.

It varies a lot between mythologies. There are lots of mythoses where there is no afterlife to speak of (old Judaism), or where the default fate of people is basically becoming Hollows.

For example, in ancient Finnish folklore, ghosts of the deceased lingered around untill they became too hideous for their living relatives to tolerate, at which point said relatives drove them away to Tuonela, where they kept on existing pretty much like they did in life. Expect all beds were made of stone and all beer out of snake venom, and other nice things.

In several African believes, deceased become Ancestor spirits who must be appeased with sacrifices, or else they become a pain in your behind. It doesn't matter how great person Uncle Joe was in life, once he dies, he becomes a jackass, just like all other Ancestors.

So on and so forth. Soul Society isn't that bad once you compare it to such believes. Or the worst place on Earth. Or Hueco Mundo and Hell.

[Xondoure]

Holy carp! The villain is actually being kind of smart about something! (Aizen doesn't count, he had cheat codes). Lure the greatest threat to you away, THEN invade! Basic, but I was honestly expecting a more unnecessarily complicated and stupid plan from Kubo.

I don't know how long the fight with Ichigo would honestly take though. They better take over Soul Society pretty quickly. I mean, that captain dude obviously as some arse-pull super-mode to prolong things, but still.

It's the exact same plan used by Aizen. How is that clever?

[Madara]

Notice he said "occupy". Does that mean they aren't going to be all "I am the best, and strongest, now you must die!"?

I suppose maybe they realize that quincy couldn't replace soul reapers? Since Quincy can only perma-destroy hollows. Its not a bad chapter, but things are moving back an forth too much for me.

[Drolyt]

So on and so forth. Soul Society isn't that bad once you compare it to such believes. Or the worst place on Earth. Or Hueco Mundo and Hell.

The worst parts of Soul Society are at least as bad as the worst places on Earth. That said, at least in my mind that isn't in itself a bad thing. The annoying thing is that it doesn't appear that that is the natural order of things. Instead it looks to me like the so called "good guys" in Seiretei are incompetent and greedy and horde all the wealth for themselves and that is why the afterlife sucks.

[Callos_DeTerran]

Well its not quite that I understand. Though I'm no expert on Eastern religions and concluded many sources I can read are at best only scratching the surface. While not the sublime perfection of Christian imagining there still exists an idea for a Heaven as being somewhat better then Earth. With the major difference theologically being that these are not eternal destinations in the long run. However if you merit getting sent to heaven its still more of a reward then say a Hades or a Hell.

Nor is Heaven that nessecarily a rare a depiction in anime. Compare Soul Society to say DBZ's Other World.

I'm no expert either, believe me. I had a single course on Religion in college and read up on it on the side, an expert I am not. This is mostly based on my own readings and investigations. The thing is, Soul Society is never described as 'Heaven' (except by Rukia to help a kid's spirit pass along). It's just the after-life. The only mention of Heaven (and there is one), comes from Aizen, who mentions that's where the Soul King resides. From the sounds of it (which is very little), only the Soul King resides there. So yeah, it always makes me laugh when people complain about how bad of an afterlife the Seireitei is. It's essentially a second life after all, and you get to do with it what you will (under a government, just like now). How bad it is/how good can in part be decided by your own actions. Other then that...it's life...If life had sentient animals seeking to eat you...And I'm not convinced crocodiles aren't sentient.

It varies a lot between mythologies. There are lots of mythoses where there is no afterlife to speak of (old Judaism), or where the default fate of people is basically becoming Hollows.

For example, in ancient Finnish folklore, ghosts of the deceased lingered around untill they became too hideous for their living relatives to tolerate, at which point said relatives drove them away to Tuonela, where they kept on existing pretty much like they did in life. Expect all beds were made of stone and all beer out of snake venom, and other nice things.

In several African believes, deceased become Ancestor spirits who must be appeased with sacrifices, or else they become a pain in your behind. It doesn't matter how great person Uncle Joe was in life, once he dies, he becomes a jackass, just like all other Ancestors.

So on and so forth. Soul Society isn't that bad once you compare it to such believes. Or the worst place on Earth. Or Hueco Mundo and Hell.

Exactly!

[The-Mage-King]

Hm. I have my own theory.

Spoiler

Show

The saber? Who else weilded a blade like that, and got taken down by Quincies who can steal Bankai?


Yeah. I think we'll be seeing... What's 'is name, the 1st Company's Lt's Bankai abilities. I mean, we already know that Quincy can use Shinigami spiritual power to up their own attacks...

[Anteros]

So...did I read that right? Did Mayuri just say he exterminated around 20,000 innocent souls in order to "keep the balance"? Is this a translation issue or something maybe?

I personally won't be happy with Bleach if it doesn't end with the downfall of Soul Society.

[Tavar]

Well, technically he sent them to the Human world, to be reincarnated. And considering the alternative...

[Soras Teva Gee]

I'm no expert either, believe me. I had a single course on Religion in college and read up on it on the side, an expert I am not. This is mostly based on my own readings and investigations. The thing is, Soul Society is never described as 'Heaven' (except by Rukia to help a kid's spirit pass along). It's just the after-life. The only mention of Heaven (and there is one), comes from Aizen, who mentions that's where the Soul King resides. From the sounds of it (which is very little), only the Soul King resides there. So yeah, it always makes me laugh when people complain about how bad of an afterlife the Seireitei is. It's essentially a second life after all, and you get to do with it what you will (under a government, just like now). How bad it is/how good can in part be decided by your own actions. Other then that...it's life...If life had sentient animals seeking to eat you...And I'm not convinced crocodiles aren't sentient.

To which I'd note that my own poking around over the years would still would put things on better/worse axis not merely different. To which Soul Society standing in opposition to Hell and Hueco Mundo *should* be filling the better position.

No nothing guarantees this and its not like Bleach has ever really relied on much IRL cosmology to draw from. This chapter really just send home how dystopic it really is.

Well, technically he sent them to the Human world, to be reincarnated. And considering the alternative...

And knowing Mayuri this nessecary process was carried out as humanely as possible.

What do we think, poison gas would seem appropriate to the arc wouldn't it?

[Anteros]

Well, technically he sent them to the Human world, to be reincarnated. And considering the alternative...

I mean...he says he exterminated them. It seems like if it was just a reincarnation process they would have a more PC word for it. It sounds an awful lot like he just mobilized his units and went and slaughtered 28,000 people...which is not really acceptable even if they do reincarnate later.

I mean, if it's that bad why not ask for volunteers? As bad as life is in a lot of the districts, I'd bet a lot of people would jump all over a chance to be reborn in a first world country.

[Xondoure]

I mean...he says he exterminated them. It seems like if it was just a reincarnation process they would have a more PC word for it. It sounds an awful lot like he just mobilized his units and went and slaughtered 28,000 people...which is not really acceptable even if they do reincarnate later.

I mean, if it's that bad why not ask for volunteers? As bad as life is in a lot of the districts, I'd bet a lot of people would jump all over a chance to be reborn in a first world country.

Only Quincy destroy souls. And exterminating would require twice as many victims. Safe bet they were just sent through to the other side.

[Fjolnir]

Interestingly enough hueco mundo != hell in the bleachverse so...

[Tavar]

Well, there's likely no real certainty about where you get reincarnated, and very few people will actually be willing to kill themselves/let themselves be killed. Humans have a pretty strong self-preservation instinct.

As for the language...nah. I'd say he wouldn't use euphemisms: he went and killed 28000 people, and dammit, that's what he'll say he did.

I agree about the poison gas. Probably offered them free showers to get everyone together, first.

[Anteros]

I'm just not sure I'm comfortable rooting for team "oh there's a crisis? Better go kill 30,000 of our lower class citizens!" I mean...I can kinda understand if they absolutely have to in order to keep the balance in order to keep world from being destroyed or something...but they don't even appear to explore other options, or to feel any remorse. It's just
"hey, I killed a bunch of innocent people."
"OK, but next time let me know before you go mass murdering."

Soul society is pretty much laughably evil at this point. I'm really hoping the final arc will be Ichigo+gang against the royal guard and whoever the king dude is.

[Soras Teva Gee]

While it hasn't come up in almost as long as Pluses so I've let it be... but the notion that there has to be some kind of balance between living and dead souls doesn't make a lot of sense to me given the massive population growth in the world.

Somehow though mass slaughter *almost* slides right off me, what sticks with me is the discussion about shoes. So far enough out and everyone is apparently so dirt poor they statistically speaking lack sandals... and even in the 'civilized' parts of the Rukon they only have a mix.

You know what Soul Society, thanks but no thanks I'll take being a Hollow when I kick the the bucket. Then I at least wouldn't need shoes.

But back to slaughtering thousands, so I figure poison gas... do we think Mayuri brought back some twins too?

[Haruspex_Pariah]

Yeah I was thinking about that. Between 1900 and 2000 there was a major increase in human population right?

If Shinigami recruitment follows a standard set in ancient days, they may have been unable to keep up with the number of hollows being produced between the 20th and 21st century.

[HandofShadows]

Interestingly enough hueco mundo != hell in the bleachverse so...

No, it does not. There is an hell in the Bleach Universe ( http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Hell ) and it makes Hueco Mundo look like a nice place by comparison.

[HandofShadows]

{{scrubbed}}

[darksolitaire]

No, it does not. There is an hell in the Bleach Universe ( http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Hell ) and it makes Hueco Mundo look like a nice place by comparison.

Fooled by a programmer

{{scrubbed}}

[jindra34]

Soul society is pretty much laughably evil at this point. I'm really hoping the final arc will be Ichigo+gang against the royal guard and whoever the king dude is.

Umm... We currently are in the last arc. And its getting really sad that Aizen may have had a point in trying to change the way the Soul Society worked, just went about it in an absolutely wrong way.

[Frozen_Feet]

I'm still convinced Urahara is the real bad guy. Why? Well, he's the reason Mayuri is there. Case closed.

Also, his defence of the Soul King (and Aizen's accusation against him) were both suspicious as heck.

[jindra34]

I'm still convinced Urahara is the real bad guy. Why? Well, he's the reason Mayuri is there. Case closed.

Also, his defence of the Soul King (and Aizen's accusation against him) were both suspicious as heck.

I'm not entirely sure Urahara is on the same side as the Soul King, he just hasn't found a good solution to the problem yet. He definitely isn't perfectly aligned with the SS anymore so who knows (other than maybe, just maybe Kubo).

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I think Aizen's actions were more due to an ego the size of a moon rather than any revolutionary motives.