Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[Dante & Vergil]

A theory I'm playing with,

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The reason Bach is 1000 or so years old is because he's a Soul Reaper, and the Soul Reaper that created the Quincies.

[thubby]

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my guess is that his shikai is big and flashy, the bankai is all that heat and power compressed into that sword.
meaning he's basically stabbing you with a small sun.

[Fiery Diamond]

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I was thinking along those same lines in some respects. Bach is over 1,000 years old, but Quincy are supposed to be humans, and they age and die like other people. So either these guys are not really human Quincys or they are DEAD Quincys. But when they died they didn't to the Soul Society, but someplace else.

That's what I kind of assumed (them being Dead Quincys, I mean) from the beginning.

Also, the whole compression thing and what the person above me said is what I suspect.

Also. HOLY ****, Yama-bankai.

[VanBuren]

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my guess is that his shikai is big and flashy, the bankai is all that heat and power compressed into that sword.
meaning he's basically stabbing you with a small sun.

THEN WHY DIDN'T HE BANKAI AIZEN?

Seriously. IIRC, the only justification people came up with for why people withheld their bankais in the Fake Karakura Arc was because they would have done mass collateral damage.

Ugh. So there Kubo was, being Kubo...

[lord_khaine]

THEN WHY DIDN'T HE BANKAI AIZEN?

Seriously. IIRC, the only justification people came up with for why people withheld their bankais in the Fake Karakura Arc was because they would have done mass collateral damage.

Ugh. So there Kubo was, being Kubo...

BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE HELPED HIM AGAINST AN OPPONENT WHOSE GREATEST DEFENCE WERE TRICKERY AND MISDIRECTION.

[VanBuren]

BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT HAVE HELPED HIM AGAINST AN OPPONENT WHOSE GREATEST DEFENCE WERE TRICKERY AND MISDIRECTION.

That didn't seem to help Aizen in Yama's Armsplosion 2010.

[Calemyr]

That didn't seem to help Aizen in Yama's Armsplosion 2010.

AoE versus precision. You don't fight an illusion master with a scalpel, you fight him with a nuke.

[HandofShadows]

THEN WHY DIDN'T HE BANKAI AIZEN?

Wonderweiss is why.

[Maugan Ra]

I'm guessing because Aizen hadn't murdered his Lieutenant, then kicked his way into Seireitei and promptly started massacring all his other subordinates.

Ichigo's casual abuse of the power aside, Bankai is something you break out when you have no other real choice, when things have gotten really serious. When you're as strong as Yama (or possibly Kyoraku and Ukitake), it's a rare situation indeed that can make you go all out. Either the threat is apocalyptic, or you really, personally care about murdering the other guy.

In this case, Yamamoto has the benefit of both.

[Mando Knight]

A theory I'm playing with,

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The reason Bach is 1000 or so years old is because he's a Soul Reaper, and the Soul Reaper that created the Quincies.

If so,

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His Shikai and/or Bankai turns the sword into a bow.

Probably.

[Friv]

I'm guessing because Aizen hadn't murdered his Lieutenant, then kicked his way into Seireitei and promptly started massacring all his other subordinates.

Ichigo's casual abuse of the power aside, Bankai is something you break out when you have no other real choice, when things have gotten really serious. When you're as strong as Yama (or possibly Kyoraku and Ukitake), it's a rare situation indeed that can make you go all out. Either the threat is apocalyptic, or you really, personally care about murdering the other guy.

In this case, Yamamoto has the benefit of both.

I think in the case of Aizen, Yamamoto had enough cause to use Bankai.

However, I agree with those who've said that it wouldn't really have helped him. Yamamoto's big advantage against Aizen was his ability to just set everything on fire and call it a day. Aizen's ability to pretend to be somewhere else and someone else doesn't really help him if no two people are not on fire.

If Yamamoto had gone Bankai, on the other hand, he's back to only being able to hit one person at a time - and pretty guaranteed of vaporizing that one person, which means he'll be cycling through his own staff at high speed while Aizen sits off to one side and chuckles a lot.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

The bad guy must have something other than bankai-thievery up his sleeve if he beat Kenpachi, who was a straightforward fighter with a threat level comparable to the bankai-qualified folks.

Or the old man went senile and forgot about the ability.

[DiscipleofBob]

I think in the case of Aizen, Yamamoto had enough cause to use Bankai.

However, I agree with those who've said that it wouldn't really have helped him. Yamamoto's big advantage against Aizen was his ability to just set everything on fire and call it a day. Aizen's ability to pretend to be somewhere else and someone else doesn't really help him if no two people are not on fire.

If Yamamoto had gone Bankai, on the other hand, he's back to only being able to hit one person at a time - and pretty guaranteed of vaporizing that one person, which means he'll be cycling through his own staff at high speed while Aizen sits off to one side and chuckles a lot.

Not to mention Aizen had Wonderweiss set up specifically as a Yamamoto-counter, which officially makes Wonderweiss the only Arrancar to matter ever in the context of Aizen's grand scheme.

[VanBuren]

Not to mention Aizen had Wonderweiss set up specifically as a Yamamoto-counter, which officially makes Wonderweiss the only Arrancar to matter ever in the context of Aizen's grand scheme.

Ulquiorra managed his job, which was apparently to give Ichigo a power-up because I guess Aizen wanted to eat him, or something.

I forget whether it was me or the manga on drugs at that point.

[Maugan Ra]

I'm fairly sure that whole 'I was planning everything from the start' speech was basically Aizen lying his arse off to screw with Ichigo's head. And it was working brilliantly as well, right up until Isshin turned up.

[HandofShadows]

Aizen wanted a very powerfull enemy (but not TOO powerfull) to push hin the next level (his idea of godhood). Problem was, Ichigo was on a level above him, not (nearly) next to him as he had planned.

[Calemyr]

Aizen wanted a very powerfull enemy (but not TOO powerfull) to push hin the next level (his idea of godhood). Problem was, Ichigo was on a level above him, not (nearly) next to him as he had planned.

Exactly, to break the barrier he was at he had to establish a need to do so, otherwise the Hogyoku (however that's spelled) wouldn't help him. In the end, however, Aizen wasn't willing to sacrifice as much as Ichigo was.

[Callos_DeTerran]

....Actually, I prefer Van Buren's theory.

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Yamamoto knows and expects his bankai to be stolen, thus he unleashes it because he wants Juha Bach to steal it so the out of control bankai will destroy him with little to no effort on Yamamoto's side.

...Here's a thought...what if it's not concentrated fire-power, but is just...far away? It could be his bankai is less concentrated power of 'all flamethrower all the time', but more 'precision orbital strike from the heavens'.

In other words, Juha Bach is already dead (yeah right, that's Ichigo's job), he just doesn't know it yet cause the pillar of flame hasn't hit the ground yet.

Concentrated power could be awesome too though.

Gotta echo what the others have said on Yamamoto vs. Aizen. If his bankai is precision, then it'd have been nigh-useless against Aizen despite it's over-whelming offensive power since he'd never be able to hit Aizen until he grabbed hold of Aizen's sword, he'd just be killing his own subordinates whom he does care about.

Thus it was better to remain just in shiki and lay waste to the surrounding area. Or maybe he wanted to see if he thought his shiki would be enough to kill Aizen and would have gone to bankai when the need arose. We'll never know thanks to Wonderweiss.

[Ramza00]

If Yamamoto Bankai is one based of precision I personally going to find it disappointing. If it needs to land a blow to kill, then I will always find it second best to Gin's Bankai

For pete sake Gin took down Superman

[DiscipleofBob]

So this is a fan theory that has basically been null and void for a while now...

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Like many, my reaction to Aizen killing Harribel was "Wtf?" especially since at that time it seemed like Harribel was winning and could take one or two of the captains out with her. Instead, Aizen comes in and prematurely kills her, citing "uselessness" as his reasoning, which doesn't make any damn sense.

I read somewhere that the Espadas' theme was death, each member representing a different cause of death. Starrk was loneliness, Barragan was old age, Ulquiorra was despair, etc. I'm probably getting some of those wrong, and they still don't make much sense, but oh well. The point is Harribel's supposed theme was sacrifice.

The theory was Aizen killed Harribel because he had to, that somehow the ten espada weren't created to kill the Gotei 13, but to be killed by them. That their deaths were part of Aizen's ritual, whatever it was, since his motivations have always been unclear. When Harribel started winning, Aizen briefly panicked. His plan required his arrancar to lose the fight, and he might've even secretly been hoping to spare the thirteen captains at that point. So he stepped in and killed Harribel as a sacrifice to complete the ritual whatever it was.

Sadly, we know this all to be untrue, and that Aizen's whole plan to become Butterflaizen wasn't worth nearly the amount of trouble he went to. But this is just some food for thought as to what the story could have been.

[Infernally Clay]

It would have been a more interesting approach indeed if the 100'000 souls needed to create the King's Key had actually come from the Arrancar who were killed by the Gotei 13.

[Maugan Ra]

More powerful Hollows tend to be conglomerations of souls dominated by an overriding personality as well, as I understand it. So the ten Espada might very well have averaged out at the required amount of individual souls. Especially when one throws in Fracciones as well.

[Anteros]

Didn't Byakuya originally tell Ichigo that a condensed bankai was impossible? Obviously he was wrong, but it seems like a silly stance for him to take if Genocide's bankai is basically the same thing.

[thubby]

Didn't Byakuya originally tell Ichigo that a condensed bankai was impossible? Obviously he was wrong, but it seems like a silly stance for him to take if Genocide's bankai is basically the same thing.

he said this, then condensed his own bankai into a far smaller form to stab the crap out of ichigo.

kubo isn't very good with this sort of thing. actions>words.

[Soras Teva Gee]

Didn't Byakuya originally tell Ichigo that a condensed bankai was impossible? Obviously he was wrong, but it seems like a silly stance for him to take if Genocide's bankai is basically the same thing.

Byakuya also is/was a junior captain. It is more then possible he knew diddly squat about Yamamoto's bankai as he's several notches down the list.

Or Kubo forgot long time ago.

[Mando Knight]

Byakuya also is/was a junior captain. It is more then possible he knew diddly squat about Yamamoto's bankai as he's several notches down the list.

Or Kubo forgot long time ago.

People who had seen the Old Man's Bankai before this:

None confirmed. (He was going to take on his two most senior captains... using his Shikai. They recognized that as his being serious.)

[Socratov]

People who had seen the Old Man's Bankai before this:

None confirmed. (He was going to take on his two most senior captains... using his Shikai. They recognized that as his being serious.)

this. although Kyoraku, Ukitake and Unohana come close to have witnessed it with them being in the gotei 13 for as long as anyone can remember (Ukitake and Kyoraku were actually confirmed as the first ones to have graduated from Shinigami academy). if anyone has seen it they will.

I think a condensed bankai is the most resonable option, even though this is tite kubo andhe's liek the father of all trolls...

[DiscipleofBob]

I think a condensed bankai is the most resonable option, even though this is tite kubo andhe's liek the father of all trolls...

Man, now I have a new fan theory:

Tsukishima is really Tite Kubo. Kubo used his powers as a mangaka to write himself into the story as a character with the ability to write himself into other peoples' stories.

[VanBuren]

Man, now I have a new fan theory:

Tsukishima is really Tite Kubo. Kubo used his powers as a mangaka to write himself into the story as a character with the ability to write himself into other peoples' stories.

That's not very nice, you should apologize to Shuu-chan.

[Callos_DeTerran]

he said this, then condensed his own bankai into a far smaller form to stab the crap out of ichigo.

kubo isn't very good with this sort of thing. actions>words.

Byakuya didn't condense his bankai though (technically), he layered the dozens of swords together into a single sword. Layering isn't condensing...technically. Not in the sense Byakuya meant condensing anyway.