Bleach V: Well that was a waste of time (Fullbring? What's that?)

[thubby]

Byakuya didn't condense his bankai though (technically), he layered the dozens of swords together into a single sword. Layering isn't condensing...technically. Not in the sense Byakuya meant condensing anyway.

i really don't think layering accounts for the veritable tide of pedals losing that much volume and also changing color.

[VanBuren]

i really don't think layering accounts for the veritable tide of pedals losing that much volume and also changing color.

He did turn them into a vast number of swords. Anyway, that was merely a technique of his bankai, not its actual form.

[thubby]

He did turn them into a vast number of swords. Anyway, that was merely a technique of his bankai, not its actual form.

and i quote
"This condenses each and every single one of his blades into a single, potent sword, drastically increasing its cutting power. The spiritual energy and pressure of this form released is immense."

[lord_khaine]

A fanmade Wiki isnt evidence, for that you have to find something written by the author, or with his seal of aproval.

[Xondoure]

A fanmade Wiki isnt evidence, for that you have to find something written by the author, or with his seal of aproval.

On the other hand, the bigger the fanbase, the more reliable the information.

Still, I think the point is that condensing a bankai is fine, but a bankai that is all about condensation is unheard of because bankai is about releasing your spiritual energy. Condensing it once it has been released is different than concentrating it as a release.

[Dante & Vergil]

On the other hand, the bigger the fanbase, the more reliable the information.

Still, I think the point is that condensing a bankai is fine, but a bankai that is all about condensation is unheard of because bankai is about releasing your spiritual energy. Condensing it once it has been released is different than concentrating it as a release.

This is pretty much how I see it, considering up until this chapter, all Bankais have had very large and flashy appearances.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

This is pretty much how I see it, considering up until this chapter, all Bankais have had very large and flashy appearances.

Yeah... I'm getting a "calm before the storm" vibe off this Bankai. Like how water recedes from the shore right before the giant tsunami appears over the horizon.

[Kaez]

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Interesting, he has a bankai he knows can't be stolen, and it has a wicked defense/offense.

It looks bad for the rest of Soul Society though if he uses it too long. That explains why we've never seen him go all out before.

[HandofShadows]

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Interesting, he has a bankai he knows can't be stolen, and it has a wicked defense/offense.

It looks bad for the rest of Soul Society though if he uses it too long. That explains why we've never seen him go all out before.

Day early this week.

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Looks like the Old Man has spent a *lot* of time prepareing for this battle.

[Maugan Ra]

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That... is actually remarkably effective, as Bankai abilities go. Condensing the heat of the sun into the edge of his blade and the uniform that he wears, thus granting him a horrific killing power and a nigh-perfect defence.

Bach really doesn't seem to have prepared properly for this fight... like, at all. I guess I'm too used to thinking in Aizen terms for the Big Bad, and thus keep expecting him to whip out a carefully prepared countermeasure for this ability, or some sort of devilish and cheesy gambit that renders it pointless. Only, that really doesn't appear to be happening, given that Bach doesn't even appear to have known what the Bankai is nowadays.

In fact, it looks like Bach essentially decided to invade the Seireitei relying on brute force and memories of a fight that happened a millenia ago. Which is so spectacularly unwise I am having difficulty believing it...

[Kaez]

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That... is actually remarkably effective, as Bankai abilities go. Condensing the heat of the sun into the edge of his blade and the uniform that he wears, thus granting him a horrific killing power and a nigh-perfect defence.

Bach really doesn't seem to have prepared properly for this fight... like, at all. I guess I'm too used to thinking in Aizen terms for the Big Bad, and thus keep expecting him to whip out a carefully prepared countermeasure for this ability, or some sort of devilish and cheesy gambit that renders it pointless. Only, that really doesn't appear to be happening, given that Bach doesn't even appear to have known what the Bankai is nowadays.

In fact, it looks like Bach essentially decided to invade the Seireitei relying on brute force and memories of a fight that happened a millenia ago. Which is so spectacularly unwise I am having difficulty believing it...

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Agreed, clearly he's unaware of how bankai do evolve. I mean look at Byakuya's bankai. It has the base 1 million flower petals, then Senkai, then Shūkei, Hakuteiken, and then Gokei. That's not including his adapting to a fight while in bankai (Tsukishima's fight with him).

Plus, it seems like for 1000 years he sat on his ass and decided to not improve his skillset, just mull about lol.

He should feel bad for himself, he's gonna get roflstomped by old man genocide..... who is missing an entire arm lol.

[Mando Knight]

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Only, that really doesn't appear to be happening, given that Bach doesn't even appear to have known what the Bankai is nowadays.

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Yamamoto almost never uses Bankai. Without him using it (as in this ish), there is no way of explicitly determining what it's capable of, only extrapolations based on the other Captains: Aizen was afraid enough of Yamamoto to develop an Arrancar to specifically counter Ryujin Jakka, and thus he calculated it to be that much more powerful than any other known Bankai.

Also given that the others developed or showed off new techniques within the short time that Ichigo's been active, the most powerful being in Soul Society must have used some of his time (almost three orders of magnitude above that time period!) to refine his Bankai into one of the most murderous things ever... and all you could really know is that it's probably still fire based.

[DiscipleofBob]

So question I have...

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What exactly is stopping Yama's bankai from being absorbed?

I would've assumed the answer would have been Yama killing his opponents too quickly for them to counter with such a thing, but it's already taking too long.

Also, IMO he should have stabbed the subordinate while he was there, just in case.

[LaZodiac]

Spoilered just in case:

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I honestly need a place to vent, so I'm going to do it. This entire thing annoys me. Ichigo was one of their Strong Factors or whatever the term used was, right? He was SO powerful that the instant he was indisposed they immediately attacked. And now they're just getting roflstomped and all the tension is gone. I know Genryusai isn't going to beat Bach, at all, but everything about this fight is questionable.

So it appears Genryusai knows his bankai can't be stolen. How does he know this? He has to know a reason why. Additionaly, he HAS to know BEFORE this all happens, otherwise he'd be more reluctent to use his Bankai because he'd be unsure if it could be stolen or not. So we have to infer Genryusai knew a way to ignore the Bankai capturing before they invaded. Why didn't he tell anyone!

AND WHERE THE HELL IS ISHIDA IN ALL OF THIS!

Anyway, on another note, I'm going to do some theory craft here. Oppi said that Bach was gathering "strong willed idiots" yes? My only guess is that Bach is actually trying to invoke manga tropes by gathering all the stupid, strong willed determinators that he can, so that at the very last moment, when all looks lost, they can spring back and win. It'll be unbelievably stupid if this happens.

[darksolitaire]

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He should feel bad for himself, he's gonna get roflstomped by old man genocide..... who is missing an entire arm lol.

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Oh, come on. Laws of drama are clear on this one. Bach is going to pull something out of his ass in 5...4...

[Kaez]

Spoilered just in case:

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I honestly need a place to vent, so I'm going to do it. This entire thing annoys me. Ichigo was one of their Strong Factors or whatever the term used was, right? He was SO powerful that the instant he was indisposed they immediately attacked. And now they're just getting roflstomped and all the tension is gone. I know Genryusai isn't going to beat Bach, at all, but everything about this fight is questionable.

So it appears Genryusai knows his bankai can't be stolen. How does he know this? He has to know a reason why. Additionaly, he HAS to know BEFORE this all happens, otherwise he'd be more reluctent to use his Bankai because he'd be unsure if it could be stolen or not. So we have to infer Genryusai knew a way to ignore the Bankai capturing before they invaded. Why didn't he tell anyone!

AND WHERE THE HELL IS ISHIDA IN ALL OF THIS!

Anyway, on another note, I'm going to do some theory craft here. Oppi said that Bach was gathering "strong willed idiots" yes? My only guess is that Bach is actually trying to invoke manga tropes by gathering all the stupid, strong willed determinators that he can, so that at the very last moment, when all looks lost, they can spring back and win. It'll be unbelievably stupid if this happens.

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Well both leaders seem familiar enough with each other that it's quite possible at one point they were friends turned enemies. It would explain why Quincies and Shinigami don't get along most of the time, all stemmed from their initial fight. And they were "wiped out" not because of the threat of extermination over purification, but because of the animosity between these two.

I suspect though that during their friendship, or during they're fight in the past, Bach tried to steal it, and similar to Ichigo, it failed. It sorta makes sense. Genocides bankai works in a similar fashion. Instead of going outward, it condenses into the blade as well as sheathes him in flame. The only other bankai that works in a similar manner that we know of is Ichigos, who condensed his power into the blade, and his shihakushō changed as well.

And I suspect that Ishida has NO way to get to Soul Society without help. And if he did, what could he do to help. These people had an undetermined amount of time to train their powers and skills. He's had 14+ years of training, and he's still an amateur Quincy, smart as he may be.

Edit: Well, his bankai condenses the flame into the sword, but it's still somewhat outward in function. No water in the air, dry heat all over soul society. Hard to say but I'm gonna go with my original theory. Added this edit because I am covering my bases.

True Genocide prolly won't win, but he's gonna put a serious beat down on him for sure.

[LaZodiac]

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Starting from the bottom, I don't care if Ishida fights or not, I just think it's pretty damn major to have THE QUINCY CHARACTER show up at ALL in the arc about his genocided race that he thought he was the final member of. You know, that seems a little bit important.

Regarding his bankai, I'm guessing that it's just SO hot its sucking all the water away.

Also, if Bach did try to steal Genryusai's bankai in the past, why didn't he bring it up? Because Byakuya's kind of dead because of this. Rukia might be dead too. It's more then a little important to note "Hey, they might steal your bankai". Genryusai knowing that they can steal Bankai before hand just raises so many questions. But at the same time him NOT knowing also raises questions. Like, if he didn't know they could steal Bankai, what made him think his bankai couldn't be stolen like everyone elses?

[Calemyr]

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Starting from the bottom, I don't care if Ishida fights or not, I just think it's pretty damn major to have THE QUINCY CHARACTER show up at ALL in the arc about his genocided race that he thought he was the final member of. You know, that seems a little bit important.

Regarding his bankai, I'm guessing that it's just SO hot its sucking all the water away.

Also, if Bach did try to steal Genryusai's bankai in the past, why didn't he bring it up? Because Byakuya's kind of dead because of this. Rukia might be dead too. It's more then a little important to note "Hey, they might steal your bankai". Genryusai knowing that they can steal Bankai before hand just raises so many questions. But at the same time him NOT knowing also raises questions. Like, if he didn't know they could steal Bankai, what made him think his bankai couldn't be stolen like everyone elses?

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Maybe he didn't know what it was supposed to do? All he might have known was that Bach's trick failed, not what it was supposed to do. Thus it becomes: "What is he doing? He's stealing their bankai, is he? Why didn't he ever steal mine? Ah, I understand: he tried."

[HandofShadows]

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I think the Stealing Bankai trick is something brand new. If it was old Ishida would have known about it and the older Captains would have known about it as well. It's clear they didn't.

The reason that the Old Man knows his Bankai can't be stolen in this form is because of Ichigo and the failed attempt at stealing his. (Hey, Ichigo is still helping and he isn't even there :)) The way Bach reacted about not seeing flames from the Yama's sword indicates that in the past to was "spread out" like most of the Bankai's we see now. I don't think this trick is the only one the Old Man has though. He probably came up with a whole series of things to do and this technique is the one that fits the situation he is in.

Looking at this, I really don't think that Bach is the real big bad here. Yama's going to off him and then the white haired guy is going to pull something really nasty. This leads to the whole "crew" going on a field trip the Quicy realm.

[Friv]

Spoilered just in case:

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I honestly need a place to vent, so I'm going to do it. This entire thing annoys me. Ichigo was one of their Strong Factors or whatever the term used was, right? He was SO powerful that the instant he was indisposed they immediately attacked. And now they're just getting roflstomped and all the tension is gone. I know Genryusai isn't going to beat Bach, at all, but everything about this fight is questionable.

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Ichigo was one of the five Special Potentials that the Quincies were particularly concerned about - presumably, people who are immune to having their Bankais stolen, but possibly just people who are strong enough to pose a threat to the Steinritters. With him gone, there were four left.

Kenpachi was one of the four, and he's out. I would assume that Yamamoto is another of the four. If his fight wasn't a big deal that he nearly wins, I would be wildly disappointed.

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So it appears Genryusai knows his bankai can't be stolen. How does he know this? He has to know a reason why. Additionaly, he HAS to know BEFORE this all happens, otherwise he'd be more reluctent to use his Bankai because he'd be unsure if it could be stolen or not. So we have to infer Genryusai knew a way to ignore the Bankai capturing before they invaded. Why didn't he tell anyone!

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I assumed that once it was reported that the Quincy had the power to steal a Bankai, rather than just blocking it as they'd believed, he figured out how it worked. Possibly the fact that the Quincy could steal Bankai at all is what allowed him to figure out who their king was.

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AND WHERE THE HELL IS ISHIDA IN ALL OF THIS!

That I agree with.

[Fjolnir]

Ishida immediately took himself out of this fight and recused himself at the beginning of this arc...

[Maugan Ra]

Ishida immediately took himself out of this fight and recused himself at the beginning of this arc...

If the laws of drama and good sense have anything to say about it, that just means he'll show up at a dramatically appropriate moment.

Anyway, I can see how this whole Bankai-stealing thing makes sense.

- Initial Quincy abilities involve taking spirit energy from the environment and using it as a weapon. Traditionally, this would be by forming a bow and shooting people with it. Usually this is restricted to ambient energy, but if the Quincy is powerful and/or desperate enough, they can take it from where it is already committed to existing structures c.ref Ishida vs Kurotsuchi.

- More advanced Quincy techniques, like the Seele Schneider, take that initial philosophy a step further and take the energy from the enemy. They have to weaken said enemy's own control over the energy first, but it can be done, as Ishida did in that fight against Cirucci.

- A Bankai is, essentially, a giant construct formed of spirit energy under the control of the owning Shinigami. They go at maximum strength, putting everything they have into the atmosphere in order to crush the enemy as completely as possible... and in so doing, they weaken their own direct control over it. Hence Byakuya's comments to Renji about how it would take years of practice to fully be able to master Bankai.

- At a guess, those amulets work against Bankai as a specific evolution of the Seele Schneider. They compromise the owner's control over the giant construct, and allow the Quincy to make use of it instead. The initial principle behind this is simple enough for a Quincy, so I'd imagine the most difficult part would be keeping the form of the Bankai intact and capable of being used, rather than just compromising the structure and taking the spirit energy.

- Bankai is very rare, however, and such a technique would be exclusively useful in fights against Shinigami captains. That would explain why it hasn't appeared before now - in the wars, the Quincy were more focused on developing techniques and tactics that they could all use, against any Soul Reaper or Hollow. The Vandereich have been planning a specific campaign against the Soul Society for centuries, though, so it makes sense to develop specialized weapons.

- Ichigo and Yamamoto are both immune to this ability because they don't create elaborate and powerful constructs with their abilities. Their Bankai techniques both focus all their power down into their swords and clothing, leaving none of it in the air for the Quincy to take. Yamamoto gains a defensive bonus from this, whereas Ichigo gains improved speed, though the Captain-Commander is naturally more experienced and powerful than the upstart ryoka boy.

- Yamamoto doesn't appear to have absolutely perfect control over his power, though, as seen by the fact that the minuscule fraction of it that is bleeding off of him is apparently dehydrating the entire Seireitei. He's got pretty damn impressive finesse though, considering that he had to deliberately relax some control in order to make the secondary aspect of his Bankai even visible to his enemies.

- Ichigo reached a similar sort of level of control in the post-Dangai phase, given that he stopped emitting any power at all and had it all concentrated in his own form. I grant you, this is my own interpretation of events, mostly because I hate the idea of him just being flat out too powerful for Aizen to sense. Which I despise in it's own right, as the idea of power so vast as to be invisible makes no sense anyway.

[thubby]

captain genocide is, to date, the strongest being in bleach. aizen was afraid of him.
clearly, he is well beyond normal and we shouldnt expect something that worked on lesser beings to work on him.

[Kitten Champion]

After reviewing it, Ishida knows nothing about the Quincy army. The shinigami there were only told about the funeral, not the circumstances behind it. Ichigo and company left to rescue Hueco Mundo from enemies unknown, which didn't interest him.

I suspect he'll end up in Hueco Mundo anyways to help Ichigo out of his present circumstances. It's how I'd write it.

[Morph Bark]

Depends on whether or not it's on-screen or not.

Ooh, maybe that's the big bad's power! He can instantly defeat anyone, but only offscreen.

"I can defeat someone utterly, immediately, but only when nobody is looking."

Later, when fighting Ichigo: "How come my power isn't working?! Nobody is looking! ...wait."

Then he looks straight at the reader.

[LaZodiac]

I still hold the theory that Bach is actually trying to create a team of "shounen heroes". Because Oppi said he was specificly looking for hotblooded, strongheaded idiots. Clearly he is trying to create a team of atypical shounen heroes.

Or he's trying to free Aizen for absolutely no reason.

[DiscipleofBob]

I still hold the theory that Bach is actually trying to create a team of "shounen heroes". Because Oppi said he was specificly looking for hotblooded, strongheaded idiots. Clearly he is trying to create a team of atypical shounen heroes.

Or he's trying to free Aizen for absolutely no reason.

"Whatever made you think...

...that this plot had any reasoning whastoever?"

[LaZodiac]

I honestly stopped thinking Bleach had any sense or good writing when Fisher King got roflstomped by Ichigo's Dad.

At this point I'm I'm probably going to accept the theory that Kubo's writing Bleach on a week to week basis.

[Spacewolf]

Be interesting if the army of quincys got beaten here but then it turned out they had their own civilian areas.

Yamamoto decides their to dangerous to be left to live and its up to the heros to stop him. Effectively making the whole invasion of the SS a reason to show off who Ichigo is going to be fighting at the end.

[Cero Oscura]

Another question might be why is Unohana just chilling in her office. People are DYING.