OOTS #827 - The Discussion Thread

[Ancalagon]

Nice.

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And Redcloak very probably just has scheduled himself to getting eaten by the MitD.

[gallagher]

Redcloak may b e one of the smartest villains i have ever witnessed

which is going to make his monologue before he dies at the hands of Hinjo so much sweeter

[luc258]

I got the impression that was his normal form - it wasn't a hobgoblin Polymorphed into a human, it was a human collaborator with the hobgoblins who infiltrated the resistance by pretending to be a slave.

Got a hard time believing that. After all he said in 826
"The end of me having to live like one of you stinking humans". That doesn't sound like a collaborator.

[factotum]

I got the impression that was his normal form - it wasn't a hobgoblin Polymorphed into a human, it was a human collaborator with the hobgoblins who infiltrated the resistance by pretending to be a slave.

Then why did he make that crack about the Resistance not being the only ones to come up with the idea of a polymorphed spy in the last strip?

Anyway, seems pretty clear that Redcloak will be keeping the fact the phylactery's been found a secret--one assumes the Resistance did his job for him by killing the entire party who found it. What about Jirix, though? He appeared to be the one the message about the find was given to, is Redcloak going to have to kill him now?

[RMS Oceanic]

Actually, I've just thought of an alternate deception Redcloak may attempt, or perhaps alongside the don't-tell-Xykon thing:

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What if he suspects that Xykon will take the Phylactery from him, and so disguises the Phylactery as his backup Holy Symbol and vice-versa? The Phylactery is abjured up the wazoo, so divining the deception may be pretty difficult. That way if Xykon takes the decoy from him, he still has the phylactery close at hand and would still be able to hold that against Xykon in the future.

[toughluck]

Then why did he make that crack about the Resistance not being the only ones to come up with the idea of a polymorphed spy in the last strip?

Anyway, seems pretty clear that Redcloak will be keeping the fact the phylactery's been found a secret--one assumes the Resistance did his job for him by killing the entire party who found it. What about Jirix, though? He appeared to be the one the message about the find was given to, is Redcloak going to have to kill him now?

He'll say the elves got away with it and are probably going to destroy it.

[luc258]

Actually, I've just thought of an alternate deception Redcloak may attempt, or perhaps alongside the don't-tell-Xykon thing:

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What if he suspects that Xykon will take the Phylactery from him, and so disguises the Phylactery as his backup Holy Symbol and vice-versa? The Phylactery is abjured up the wazoo, so divining the deception may be pretty difficult. That way if Xykon takes the decoy from him, he still has the phylactery close at hand and would still be able to hold that against Xykon in the future.

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Redcloak already tried to pressure Xykon with the phylactery. It backfired big time. I don't think his plan is that simple, we are all probably in for a big surprise soon.

[MReav]

I got the impression that was his normal form - it wasn't a hobgoblin Polymorphed into a human, it was a human collaborator with the hobgoblins who infiltrated the resistance by pretending to be a slave.

He called him "friend", something Redcloak would never say regarding a human, and said "our god", something I doubt the Dark One would allow if he were human.

I'm going to assume he's at negative HP and is simply dying, and died when the earthquake smushed him into paste, at which point, like with a disintegrate spell, the crushed remains of a goblin are indistinguishable from those of a human, or a halfling, or a dwarf.

[Sunken Valley]

I got the impression that was his normal form - it wasn't a hobgoblin Polymorphed into a human, it was a human collaborator with the hobgoblins who infiltrated the resistance by pretending to be a slave.

Then why would Redcloak the Specieist regret not raising him

Edit: Ninja's

[RMS Oceanic]

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Redcloak already tried to pressure Xykon with the phylactery. It backfired big time. I don't think his plan is that simple, we are all probably in for a big surprise soon.

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That's true, but I think Redcloak has two goals here:

1. Buy more time for Gobbotopia.
2. Make sure Xykon does not have control over the phylactery.

The first goal is more immediate, and probably the more difficult to maintain at this point. The second goal is a more long goal and arguably more important, especially if Xykon really is planning to replace Redcloak with Tsukiko. Even if he can't threaten Xykon directly with it, it would still be leverage if Xykon tried something.

[Agnostik]

So bearded devils are fond of Apple products, huh...

[Gullintanni]

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Redcloak already tried to pressure Xykon with the phylactery. It backfired big time. I don't think his plan is that simple, we are all probably in for a big surprise soon.

Still, it's hard, given all the tension between Xykon and Redcloak lately, to assume that RC isn't going to take every competitive advantage he can acquire. It's almost certain that RC has an agenda that runs counter to Xykon's intentions.

Consider how secretive RC has been about his intervention with the resistance. He guaranteed that the circumstances of the phylactery's recovery never gets back to Xykon by using summons and leaving no sympathetic survivors to blab. He already knows that Divination is not Xykon's forté, so he can probably feel pretty safe given his actions.

It's hard to deny that there's a hidden agenda at work. I can't wait to see where Rich goes with it.

[SpaceBadger]

Thanks, Giant!

[Edhelras]

What? Noooo! Thahn!

How can this be? Even having a NAME didn't help!

And the cute girl with the eye pad too......

Cool with the mountain-implosion thingy though,using the earthquake. Implosion on both the individual level and on the large scale. A fitting tomb for the resistance movement.

[Psyren]

Awesome strip. I've got a nitpick, though -- dead polymorph targets return to their normal forms.

The rules don't specify WHEN this happens though, so the Giant has plenty of leeway here.

And Redcloak just proved why Clerics are T1. He soloed the resistance.

[pendell]

Woot! Update! And an awesome update!

"You're the bravest man I've ever met ..."

"... and you're the slowest woman! Go!"

Love it! And I'm hoping someday the romantic intrigue between those two in their brief time together can be explored.


Still, only one sole survivor reminds me of the story of Moby the white whale ... ".. and I have escaped alone to tell thee."

Last but not least, it means that we have finally something else to talk about besides the stupid elf commander who didn't even have a name.

Speaking of which .. Redcloak is using an unidentified spell to kill the one-eyed woman. Does that mean he's out of implosion? Does that help us identify his likely level?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[The Succubus]

One thing confuses me - the group of rebels in 826 only had one female character with the U shaped symbol on her head and she was dispatched in panel 8.

Or was that one of the corpses from Redcloak's killing spree prior to the rebel group's arrival?

EDIT: SoD Theory

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I don't have my copy immediately to hand but didn't Xykon hypnotise MiTD into spitting out the amulet Redcloak is *wearing*, rather than the amulets he is carrying?

[luc258]

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That's true, but I think Redcloak has two goals here:

1. Buy more time for Gobbotopia.
2. Make sure Xykon does not have control over the phylactery.

The first goal is more immediate, and probably the more difficult to maintain at this point. The second goal is a more long goal and arguably more important, especially if Xykon really is planning to replace Redcloak with Tsukiko. Even if he can't threaten Xykon directly with it, it would still be leverage if Xykon tried something.

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I was thinking about something similar: that he was preparing for a conflict with Xykon which would happen once Xykon figures out that he won't control the snarl after the ritual. But it does not make that much sense, since it won't make Xykon any easier to beat. If Red Cloak would win in a potential fight with Xykon he would have his phylactery anyways and could destroy it while Xykon regenerates.

I like your 2nd point though, afterall Red Cloak lost Xykon's phylactery. There is a good chance he might take it away from Red Cloak once it is recovered and hide it somewhere where Red Cloak would have no access to it.
So even if there was a conflict between them and Red Cloak would win he could not finish off Xykon. Maybe he is planning to keep it for himself or destroy it straight away while he can pin it on the elves in order to avoid this.

[KoboldRevenge]

About the polymorphed guy. He's morphed into someone who looked exactly like the bad guy?

Also I wonder if there is an alignment scale for elementals based on this new ones eye color and shape changed.

[Nenec]

Ohoh! It's so good to see the real villains again, now I'm only missing Xycon and the cockroaches. Linear guild and Tarquin are just...a watered drink compared to those. Last pages were really epic.
And this one...it makes you wanna cry for the defeat, for Than, all this resumed in Niu's face. But when you see the line about paladins=endagered species, iPad as extra pay you can't do anything but laugh!

[SpaceBadger]

I got the impression that was his normal form - it wasn't a hobgoblin Polymorphed into a human, it was a human collaborator with the hobgoblins who infiltrated the resistance by pretending to be a slave.

Seriously? I suggest you take another look at strip 826, especially panels 9, 10 and 11.

[RMS Oceanic]

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I was thinking about something similar: that he was preparing for a conflict with Xykon which would happen once Xykon figures out that he won't control the snarl after the ritual. But it does not make that much sense, since it won't make Xykon any easier to beat. If Red Cloak would win in a potential fight with Xykon he would have his phylactery anyways and could destroy it while Xykon regenerates.

I like your 2nd point though, afterall Red Cloak lost Xykon's phylactery. There is a good chance he might take it away from Red Cloak once it is recovered and hide it somewhere where Red Cloak would have no access to it.
So even if there was a conflict between them and Red Cloak would win he could not finish off Xykon. Maybe he is planning to keep it for himself or destroy it straight away while he can pin it on the elves in order to avoid this.

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Destroying the phylactery - correction, telling Xykon the phylactery is destroyed - is pretty dangerous. Losing the phylactery cost him an eye, what do you think permanently losing it would cost him? At the absolute minimum I would wager that Xykon would go ahead with the Tsukiko plan.

[BobVosh]

RC has gotten a lot more hardcore with his eye.

[Moonshadow]

Even if Redcloak does pull the old switcharoo on the phylactery, is Xykon able to, well, for lack of a better word, sense that part of him is still in it?

Or do all the spells on it prevent that?

Or does it work like a Horcrux in that it's completely seperate from him now and he can't sense a thing?

[Gullintanni]

Speaking of which .. Redcloak is using an unidentified spell to kill the one-eyed woman. Does that mean he's out of implosion? Does that help us identify his likely level?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

Redcloak, IMHO, is pretty unambiguously level 17. He couples casting of Implosion with a quip about new spell levels. The only time you can really call a spell level "new" is when you first achieve the ability to cast said spells. The first ability to achieve level 9th cleric spells is at level 17. Notwithstanding Ur-Priests and the like of course.

[Person_Man]

It just occurred to me that if Xykon succeeds and gains the power of the remaining Gates, that he can probably re-write reality however he wishes, thus replacing Redcloak's god (and all gods in general). It makes me wonder why Redcloak has ever followed Xykon at all.

If it was out of fear, then why not destroy the phylactery years ago when Roy destroyed Xykon's first skeletal body? If it was because he wanted to eventually concur Azure City and set up goblintopia and stay there, then why question O-Chul so vigorously about the locations of the other gates?

It'll be quite interesting to see what happens next.

[Hardcore]

Nice with that escape scene in the last panel; a classic thing u know.

[The Pilgrim]

A salute for Thanh. A brave man killed while honoring his duty.

Well, half the people whose names I know are safe. It's something.

On the other hand:
- Devils: Will kill people for an iPad. In hard economic times like those we are living, I suppose it makes sense that the price of labor force has hit rock-bottom.

- Why Redcloak needs the whole affair to remain secret? what's he planning to do with the Philactery? Hand Xykon a fake while keeping the real one somewhere safe? Destroy it, then tell Xykon the Resistance destroyed it, then make him one new Philactery, then hand over a fake to Xykon and keep the real, new philactery?

[luc258]

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Destroying the phylactery - correction, telling Xykon the phylactery is destroyed - is pretty dangerous. Losing the phylactery cost him an eye, what do you think permanently losing it would cost him? At the absolute minimum I would wager that Xykon would go ahead with the Tsukiko plan.

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Taking this into consideration his next step could be to get rid off Tsukiko. It would go with his evil character as well. In a few days the plot arc will probably go to a completely different direction anyways, but I'm really curious what Red Cloaks plan will turn out to be.

[DarkEricDraven]

Man, Redcloak is awesome!...Evil, but awesome!
Implosion.