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  1. Top - End - #61
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    HalflingRangerGuy

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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away. And what with the skills Haley taught her she shoud be able to do well for herself in the Thieves Guild.

  2. Top - End - #62
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Wait...why would Xykon have a surprise round?
    Presumably, in the scenario Doxkid is spinning, because they were expecting to pick up Niu and leave, not for Xykon to be there.

    (I also observe that Quickened Meteor Swarm would actually show a higher-level spell slot than we've seen Xykon demonstrate before. Maximized Energy Drain is 12th-level, Quickened Meteor Swarm is 13th-level.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Cynric View Post
    If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away. And what with the skills Haley taught her she shoud be able to do well for herself in the Thieves Guild.
    If you were Niu, you would want to work for Bozzok? Really?

    Whatever Niu does, I think it will be better than that.
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-01-18 at 06:42 AM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

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    This, in a nutshell.
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  3. Top - End - #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Wait...why would Xykon have a surprise round?
    If the party is teleporting in without scrying, they would not be aware of him.

    This is based on the normal Scry+teleport combo, in many of the cases I've seen, being ruled to give a surprise round to those that Teleported; they are aware of their opponents before their opponents are aware of them.

    Of course, there are many different ruling on this, so I won't stand by the surprise round. Alternate rulings include 'The caster who cast Teleport ends his turn as the spell resolves, then initiative is rolled normally.'

    This actually seems closer to the rules used in the comic, as we have seen the Lizardmen siblings both starting and not finishing the word 'Teleport' and ending but not starting the word 'Teleport' as they Teleport to/from Kobold Prophet when they Raise him. The evil caster ( a cleric if my memory serves) also ended the phrase 'Plane shift' upon appearing during the attack on Roy during his stay in LG heaven.

    However, the moment Xykon goes based on initiative, the party is basically dead.
    ----
    A point no one has brought up during the whole Teleport debate is the lack of information about where the caster would be teleporting. As the spell says
    You must have some clear idea of the location and layout of the destination.
    This requires most of Nui's sending to be coordination for her retrieval and it may be impossible to those who haven't ever been to the mountains surrounding the city.
    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    (I also observe that Quickened Meteor Swarm would actually show a higher-level spell slot than we've seen Xykon demonstrate before. Maximized Energy Drain is 12th-level, Quickened Meteor Swarm is 13th-level.)
    Yes, I mentioned that the Quickened meteor swarm might be beyond his abilities, however he probably would not need it. Energy drain, followed by Quickened Enervation would also do the job and might just kill the target outright. There is no shortage on methods he could use to kill a wizard/party of a much lower level than him should he actually desire to.
    Last edited by Doxkid; 2012-01-18 at 07:00 AM.

  4. Top - End - #64
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    BlackDragon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cynric View Post
    If I was Niu, I would make my way to Gresky City. Considering how quickly Haley, Belkar and Celia got there it doesn't seem to be too far away.
    It's been explicitly stated in-comic that Greysky is more than a thousand miles from Azure City, and what evidence do you have that Haley etc. got there quickly? They left the Oracle in strip #570 and arrived at Greysky in #573, but there's absolutely no context for how many days or even weeks elapsed between those two strips.

  5. Top - End - #65
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Except that Xykon is a Sorcerer, not a wizard. And last I checked, Sorcerers can't cast quickened spells.

  6. Top - End - #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It's been explicitly stated in-comic that Greysky is more than a thousand miles from Azure City, and what evidence do you have that Haley etc. got there quickly? They left the Oracle in strip #570 and arrived at Greysky in #573, but there's absolutely no context for how many days or even weeks elapsed between those two strips.
    No, Cliffport is >1000 miles away.
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  7. Top - End - #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    It seems you got G-Man's quiz wrong. The only horde living on the outskirts of Azure City that has been seen or mentioned is the same horde that took over Azure City.

    I also checked the Azure City travel guide thingy in WaXP to see if maybe that's where the idea of nomadic tribes came from, and I noticed a part that says the paladins pursuing individuals into other countries has given Azure City a negative reputation. Yeah, other human nations helping out is looking less and less likely...

    Though now that I think about it, those orcs were kinda on good terms with the Azurites. Would be kinda neat if they have to rely on "monsters" to earn their happy ending, but the island seemed very small so it's unlikely.
    They're nomads, maybe they will be new comers that moved into somewhere near blue river and the new team is not to attack xykon. They will do sabotage and small raids and hit-and-run attacks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.Epic View Post
    Starting a completely new resistance group by yourself in enemy lands where the ruling forcing is (a) far more powerful than you and (b) has already squashed just about everyone in the last resistance group is gonna be near impossible.
    Indeed. I can picture the recruitment campaign now...

    "Come join the New Resistance, we shall overthrow our hated goblin oppressors!"

    "Sounds cool - what happened to the old one?"

    "Well, those that weren't ripped apart by devils, imploded, eaten alive by wights and forced to serve a necrophiliac were probably crushed to death in an earthquake....hey, get back here! Awwwww..."
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    Succubus gets grongratulatory cookies from me. You have stepped into the realm of puns that only the likes of Death, Your Friend the Reaper have seen.

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  9. Top - End - #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    Indeed. I can picture the recruitment campaign now...

    "Come join the New Resistance, we shall overthrow our hated goblin oppressors!"

    "Sounds cool - what happened to the old one?"

    "Well, those that weren't ripped apart by devils, imploded, eaten alive by wights and forced to serve a necrophiliac were probably crushed to death in an earthquake....hey, get back here! Awwwww..."
    Death seeking mongolian proud warrior race guys would say: Close enough!
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    Maybe she would go Rambo or Captain Price or Viktor Reznov.
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  10. Top - End - #70
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    t209... i hate to be the one to break it to you, but... well...

    Order of the Stick is not skyrim.

    It's shocking i know, but it's just one of those universal truths you'll have to accept.

    It's not all bad though, you can always write a fanfiction.
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    t209... i hate to be the one to break it to you, but... well...

    Order of the Stick is not skyrim.

    It's shocking i know, but it's just one of those universal truths you'll have to accept.

    It's not all bad though, you can always write a fanfiction.
    Actually it's based on Black Ops, Mass Effect 2 (Assemble the team), and MW3!
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  12. Top - End - #72
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    OOTS is also not black ops, mass effect, modern warfare, or any other thing that is not order of the stick.

    Order of the stick is order of the stick.

    That is all.
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  13. Top - End - #73
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    OOTS is also not black ops, mass effect, modern warfare, or any other thing that is not order of the stick.

    Order of the stick is order of the stick.

    That is all.
    Thanks, I understand now that OOTS is OOTS! For additional info, what i mean "it" as in this thread, not the comic.
    Last edited by t209; 2012-01-18 at 11:17 AM.
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  14. Top - End - #74
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Order of the Stick is not ASoIaF either. Khal Drogo is not going to come riding down the hill to fulfill his marriage contract with Hinjo's previously unmentioned sister.

    In all seriousness, if you can provide one (ONE) shred of evidence that there is a "Nomadic horde" that the party somehow has not already run into, and ISN'T made up of goblonoids, I will take back everything I have said.
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  15. Top - End - #75
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Right Now Xykon is off doing Thor knows what. Redcloak does not know where the skeleton is. Why would Xykon be sending Elves false sendings? Why would he be there to intercept a fifth level wizard retriving Niu?

    Being an Epic lich sorcer make him powerful. It does not make him omnipotent omniscent or omniprescent.
    Deus Ex Machina - refers to the ending of Greek plays where an actor playing a Greek God is lowered onto the stage and solves all of the problems. It is not a problem solved by a Chekov's Gun, Skill, or Armory. It is not an @$$ pull or whatever solved the plot in all those twilight novels. it is not characters acting out of character, or a twist you don't like.

    Words have meanings. You can't just change meanings to suit yourself. Otherwise born carbon fligaments Xyeon palar.

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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by G-Man Graves View Post
    Order of the Stick is not ASoIaF either. Khal Drogo is not going to come riding down the hill to fulfill his marriage contract with Hinjo's previously unmentioned sister.

    In all seriousness, if you can provide one (ONE) shred of evidence that there is a "Nomadic horde" that the party somehow has not already run into, and ISN'T made up of goblonoids, I will take back everything I have said.
    The closest I can think of is the island orcs, and they are kind of stuck to their island (so non-nomadic) and the party has run into them.
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  17. Top - End - #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    It's also a classic tactic for a state that is thousands of miles from its target and thus can't easily send a full-sized army! Xykon isn't taking the hobgoblins with him to the Western Continent for the same reason...just too impractical to *get* them there, unless you happen to have an epic-level teleportation specialist like Ganonron available.
    Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.

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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Honestly i think she's just going to make her way to the closest human port-city, most likely cliffport, use the scroll to contact Hinjo, and include were she is so one of the fleet ships can come pick her up.
    Yes, because it makes perfect sense to wait a few days before casting the spell instead of doing so immediately when she's clear (at least away from the Cloister's effects). Oh, and it also makes sense to make that trip to another city (Cliffport was apparently a week or two away from Azure City) and then wait for a ship. It would cost her to get food and then lodging for those few days, and I don't think she had any gold with her.
    Even then, it takes far fewer resources to just teleport there and back again with her. It's not like magic is that uncommon in OotS world.
    If you're saying that resources matter that much, you're obviously thinking of a Lawful or Neutral Evil leader. I could imagine Tarquin being so heartless, maybe Redcloak. But no way is Hinjo going to leave the sole survivor of the Resistance to die out there -- not because she has information to share, but because she needs saving.

    Traveling could take a few strips, and I feel the Resistance arc will close pretty quickly, and I see two possible resolutions for Niu:
    1. She casts Sending, Hinjo sends someone to pick her up immediately.
    2. Redcloak finds and kills her.

    I guess we'll know soon enough.

  19. Top - End - #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    Nobody's contacting Niu with Sending or anything like it; she's had Cloister cast on her every few weeks. Oh, and Cliffport is over a thousand miles away, so she's not getting there any time soon.
    It's enough that she's in the clear and contacts Hinjo, they'll know she's there and could possibly teleport to her, and then out -- with her. Cloister doesn't prevent teleporting OUT of it, there may be problems teleporting IN.
    They couldn't scry on her, they couldn't send to her, but otherwise it's all fine.

    Keep in mind that she is aware of the effects of the Cloister -- Haley and O-Chul described the effect to Hinjo and the elves, they knew why scrying failed, and know how to work around the issue.

    As for bait and switch tactics, there are ways to work around that, too, but it seems not to be necessary -- Team Peregrine managed to not be surprised by the hobgoblin patrol (it seemed the other way around, actually), and wiped it out pretty much instantly. If they wanted to be as prepared as possible, send two casters -- one will teleport out, second (hasted, if necessary, with quickened teleport slot or scroll) will teleport in.
    It also seems that they don't need to know the surroundings -- I'm fairly sure Team Peregrine wizard did not visit the lands around Azure City, and yet teleported pretty well onto the mountain path.

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    Quote Originally Posted by toughluck View Post
    Yes, because it makes perfect sense to wait a few days before casting the spell instead of doing so immediately when she's clear (at least away from the Cloister's effects). Oh, and it also makes sense to make that trip to another city (Cliffport was apparently a week or two away from Azure City) and then wait for a ship. It would cost her to get food and then lodging for those few days, and I don't think she had any gold with her.
    Even then, it takes far fewer resources to just teleport there and back again with her. It's not like magic is that uncommon in OotS world.
    Yes, because the Azure survivors just have SO MANY high-level wizards with them don't they?
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  21. Top - End - #81
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    She'll head to Cliffport and end up joining a low-level adventuring group for a spinoff series Rich will make after the OOtS is over.

    Were there any other cities that followed the Southern pantheon? There could be a community of Azureite refugees she could find a home with.
    To find in order to lose; To fall in order to stand up
    To freeze in order to ignite; To find myself within, and not fear the edge
    To die in order to be reborn to the new world

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    Quote Originally Posted by toughluck View Post
    Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.
    Firstly, doing that would require Ganonron to have epic teleport available, and he might not have had any castings left. Secondly, V didn't give a rat's behind for the defences of Azure City, or the Azurites themselves for that matter--he only teleported the fleet because he wanted their help, and he certainly had no intention of wasting his surprise round to clear out the goblins from Azure City before dropping in on a totally prepared and angry Xykon! He was after the big target, not the minions.

  23. Top - End - #83
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by toughluck View Post
    Which begs the question why didn't V epic teleport into the city, then epic teleport with all the goblins from there out to 1 mile above the sea -- or just above the city before going back for Xykon. That would neatly destroy all the defences of Gobbotopia.
    We have no reason to believe that Epic Teleport works on enemies.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    We have no reason to believe that Epic Teleport works on enemies.
    I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

    I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

    I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.
    He/she looks scary and Kazumi and Daigo thought he/she's gonna kill them!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    I can't think of any spells that work or not work based on "enemy," rather than based on "unwilling," or, "not selected by caster."

    I doubt every member of the Azure City fleet agreed to be teleported right then, or would have. Kazumi and Daigo didn't act thrilled about Scary-Vaarsuvius casting a spell on them.
    A lot of DMs interpret "willing" as "ally" to avoid a lot of needless hassle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    A lot of DMs interpret "willing" as "ally" to avoid a lot of needless hassle.
    Allowing that--and allowing that Spliced-Vaarsuvius counted as an ally to the Azure City fleet--for this post just for the sake of argument, do you really think Ganonron, Terror of a Thousand Planes, designed his trademark spell to only work on the willing?

    factotum gave very compelling reasons for Spliced-Vaarsuvius not to have used Epic Teleport that way without 1) presuming Rich used a house rule and 2) presuming Ganonron designed the spell with an "only willing" restriction at all.
    Last edited by Kish; 2012-01-19 at 05:51 PM.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

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    This, in a nutshell.
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  28. Top - End - #88
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    Flame of Anor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Allowing that--and allowing that Spliced-Vaarsuvius counted as an ally to the Azure City fleet--for this post just for the sake of argument, do you really think Ganonron, Terror of a Thousand Planes, designed his trademark spell to only work on the willing?

    factotum gave very compelling reasons for Spliced-Vaarsuvius not to have used Epic Teleport that way without 1) presuming Rich used a house rule and 2) presuming Ganonron designed the spell with an "only willing" restriction at all.
    Well, for one thing, I'm sure the epic spell DC or whatever it is (Roy's the only one who knows the epic rules around here) would be much, much higher if it weren't willing. And since he was using his spell to move his armies around, he wouldn't generally need it to work on the unwilling anyway.
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  29. Top - End - #89
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Well, for one thing, I'm sure the epic spell DC or whatever it is (Roy's the only one who knows the epic rules around here) would be much, much higher if it weren't willing. And since he was using his spell to move his armies around, he wouldn't generally need it to work on the unwilling anyway.
    Who says he's using it on his army? Maybe he teleports the enemy army to the middle of the ocean or something. Five miles up. Flawless victory!

    Anyway, Niu has one chance to convey whatever information she has to Hinjo. She also has to think about surviving long enough for any possible rescue attempt to reach her. She should head for the nearest friendly town and mention this in her sending. (Cliffport isn't nearby, and Greysky isn't friendly.) And I believe Hinjo will do what he can to rescue her -- she should be considered a Azurite hero.
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  30. Top - End - #90
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlackDragon

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    Default Re: Niu's New Resistance Team

    She should go to the island where Hinjo is. She probably has some useful information about Azure City, that would be too long to tell by sending.

    And starting a resistance from the scratch will be harder than the first time, since thay had allies who survived the war. Now she will have to look for people who doesn't have a reason to fight.

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