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  1. - Top - End - #1471
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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Avilan the Grey View Post
    All true.
    But I still don't think he is doing the right thing, and I fail to see what "evil" the Empire has done.
    Of course it all gets muddled by how you play your character anyway, I have found it funny (not talking about anyone on this forum!) when people argue for the virtue of Ulfric (and the oppressive evil of the Empire) while themselves playing a member of the dark brotherhood, for example.
    I hilariously have the opposite situation; I'm playing a member of the Dark Brotherhood, but supporting the Empire. I'm doing it partially because I have moral problems with Ulfric, but mostly because I wanted to side with the people proven to be able to establish order and maintain the rule of law; assassins are irrelevant in lands of chaos.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  2. - Top - End - #1472
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Opperhapsen View Post
    They don't, ever.
    They never touch a hair on a bystanders head.

    The only really bad thing they do is relegate the non humans to their own quarters in a single city. Something I cannot get worked up over since said races are infinitely worse within their own borders, have pretty much universally proven to be criminals, and in the case of the Khajit are nationals of a country that helped the very people they're fighting.



    With Hammerfell out of the empire, Skyrim is supplying a sizeable majority of Imperial troops.
    If they leave imperal rule they'd have a much, much, much larger force guarding their borders (Easily rivalling the Imperial legion), their borders are ludicrously defensible, they're largely self-sufficient, and holding Skyrim is going to be next to impossible.

    Skyrim stands better alone, it's the rest of the empire that needs Skyrim.
    Yeah, I'm never gonna be able to get behind racism, even fantasy racism.

  3. - Top - End - #1473
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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    Yeah, I'm never gonna be able to get behind racism, even fantasy racism.
    This is also a thing for me as well.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chilingsworth View Post
    Wow! Not only was that awesome, I think I actually kinda understand Archeron now. If all the "intermediate" outer planes got that kind of treatment, I doubt there would be anywhere near as many critics of their utility.
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  4. - Top - End - #1474
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    Avilan the Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Gareth View Post
    This is also a thing for me as well.
    I mean I can see that a Nord character CAN be played as supporter of the Stormcloaks, either for religious reasons or because he is a racist. I do not see any other race as plausible to support them, the way they are all treated.
    Last edited by Avilan the Grey; 2012-05-14 at 01:09 AM.
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  5. - Top - End - #1475
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    Cespenar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by VanBuren View Post
    Yeah, I'm never gonna be able to get behind racism, even fantasy racism.
    Fantasy racism would be easier to get behind, if, say, the racist race were several orders of magnitude more powerful (a godlike race, for example) than the other races. It would still be wrong, but the "logic" behind it would be easier to understand, at least.
    Last edited by Cespenar; 2012-05-14 at 01:46 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #1476
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    Rion's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    I don't think I will ever be able to do a Stormcloak playthrough. Not because of the racism since it's not in your face during the quests themselves. But because of the Jarls. There are practically two types of Imperial/Stormcloak Jarl pairs, either both of them are horrible rulers, or the Imperial one is competent and the Stormcloak one incompetent.

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    Imperial Whiterun has Balgruuf (who I don't think anyone think incompetent), while Stormcloak Whiterun has Vignar who hid with his family during the battle rather than either attacking Whiterun with the other Stormcloaks or defending it with ther other inhabitants.

    In Falkreath the Imperial Jarl is an amoral upperclass twit while the Stormcloak is a paranoid conspiracy theorist who don't even trust his former servants. Even when they have lost their prestigious positions because they supported him.

    The Stormcloak Skald of Dawnstar is viewed as a spoiled brat in an old man's body by everyone in town, while they view Imperial Brina Merilis as highly competent.

    Both Riften and Markarth have original Jarls which aren't particularly sympathetic, while the replacement Jarls are the heads of the Silverblood family for Markarth and the Blackbriar family for the Imperials. Even then Laila Law-Giver reveals that she doesn't think Ulfric will be a competent at ruling the country if you become a Thane of Riften before the Imperials take the city.

    Brunwulf Free-Winter improves both the Argonian and Dark Elf situations shortly after becoming Jarl of Winterhold.

    In Winterhold the Stormcloak Jarl is antagonistic towards the mages and holds them responsible for the destruction of the city. The Imperial Jarl on the other hand, is friendly towards them and hope more cooporation between the city and the college can help Winterhold to become less of a hole in the ground.

    I have to admit that I don't know how good a Jarl the Stormcloak replacement for Morthal is, but from the "Laid to Rest" and "Diplomatic Immunity" quests I have a positive opinion of Idgrod Ravencrone.
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  7. - Top - End - #1477
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    Avilan the Grey's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion

    Quote Originally Posted by Rion View Post
    I don't think I will ever be able to do a Stormcloak playthrough. Not because of the racism since it's not in your face during the quests themselves. But because of the Jarls. There are practically two types of Imperial/Stormcloak Jarl pairs, either both of them are horrible rulers, or the Imperial one is competent and the Stormcloak one incompetent.

    Spoiler
    Show
    Imperial Whiterun has Balgruuf (who I don't think anyone think incompetent), while Stormcloak Whiterun has Vignar who hid with his family during the battle rather than either attacking Whiterun with the other Stormcloaks or defending it with ther other inhabitants.

    In Falkreath the Imperial Jarl is an amoral upperclass twit while the Stormcloak is a paranoid conspiracy theorist who don't even trust his former servants. Even when they have lost their prestigious positions because they supported him.

    The Stormcloak Skald of Dawnstar is viewed as a spoiled brat in an old man's body by everyone in town, while they view Imperial Brina Merilis as highly competent.

    Both Riften and Markarth have original Jarls which aren't particularly sympathetic, while the replacement Jarls are the heads of the Silverblood family for Markarth and the Blackbriar family for the Imperials. Even then Laila Law-Giver reveals that she doesn't think Ulfric will be a competent at ruling the country if you become a Thane of Riften before the Imperials take the city.

    Brunwulf Free-Winter improves both the Argonian and Dark Elf situations shortly after becoming Jarl of Winterhold.

    In Winterhold the Stormcloak Jarl is antagonistic towards the mages and holds them responsible for the destruction of the city. The Imperial Jarl on the other hand, is friendly towards them and hope more cooporation between the city and the college can help Winterhold to become less of a hole in the ground.

    I have to admit that I don't know how good a Jarl the Stormcloak replacement for Morthal is, but from the "Laid to Rest" and "Diplomatic Immunity" quests I have a positive opinion of Idgrod Ravencrone.
    I agree with this too; Basically all of the Imperial-backed ones are better at their job and / or better people than the Stormcloak-backed ones.
    "If I have to fight through guards, I've made a mistake." - Thane
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    Wrex: "Shepard, we have mawsign the likes of which even Reapers have never seen!"

  8. - Top - End - #1478
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    Brother Oni's Avatar

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    Default Re: Skyrim IV: Oblivion


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