MS Paint Adventures V: THIS IS STUPID

[memnarch]

it's an antagonist in the same way the town is the antagonist in the silent hill series. everything that happens is because of the game, worlds are destroyed because of it, first guardians are born because of it, gods are formed because of it.

....

The game isn't an antagonist at all then? What's its goal or motivation? The town is just the place where bad stuff happens. It's also been claimed that it's been possessed by someone's soul, so....

...

Hell even your favourite time traveling demon here owes his existence to the game.

How do we know that? All we've seen so far is that English sets stuff up so that he is summoned, which has the side-effect (if you want to call it that) of screwing everyone else over.

[Draconi Redfir]

The game isn't an antagonist at all then? What's its goal or motivation? The town is just the place where bad stuff happens. It's also been claimed that it's been possessed by someone's soul, so....

i'm not an expert on it, but watch Yatzee's silent hill reveiws on the escapist. You don't need a thinking mind, a plan, or an evil modivaition to be an antagonist, you really just need the power to make the protagonists suffer.

Annother example would be the entire flipping planet in the 2012 movie.

How do we know that? All we've seen so far is that English sets stuff up so that he is summoned, which has the side-effect (if you want to call it that) of screwing everyone else over.

Where the heck do you think doc scratch came from? or the kids and the trolls for that matter?

[Lost Demiurge]

Pffft, Lord English is totally the villain. >_>

Yeah, it's obvious, isn't it. Totally hard to deny.

VERY obvious.

We get told it over and over again.

So why... Does this smell... Like a double-moebius reacharound to me?

I think mebbe there might be a few surprises there. We'll see.

[Scowling Dragon]

The game is necessary for reproduction. Technically all our planet is is a speck of dust in the grand scheme of things.

Silent hill attracted murderess and psychopaths where their insanity created the world.

It was by no means a nice place, but It wasn't the core antagonist. Its a physical representation of the villains innards.

[memnarch]

i'm not an expert on it, but watch Yatzee's silent hill reveiws on the escapist. You don't need a thinking mind, a plan, or an evil modivaition to be an antagonist, you really just need the power to make the protagonists suffer.

Annother example would be the entire flipping planet in the 2012 movie.

True, but being an antagonist requires that the antagonist opposes the protagonists (these people from Gez's fix) or is an obstacle to be overcome in some fashion. While you can point to the dersites as an example, the game is not an antagonist because I can point to the prospits, the kernal sprites, and the magical-sciency item creation stuff and say that the game is a protagonist helping out the main characters.

Therefore, I have to conclude that the game is neither a protagonist nor an antagonist, but simply the medium (har har) that everything happens in.


2012 was a stupid movie, and the Earth there was still not in an overgrown video game that was also trying to help the people out at the same time.

Where the heck do you think doc scratch came from? or the kids and the trolls for that matter?

Doc Scratch, the kids, and the trolls all came from the game. Scratch was the result of a paradox loop inside the game as far as we can currently see, the kids are from the race the trolls made, and the trolls are probably a race some other group made.

None of this is relevant however, because they aren't English, who is not from the game.

[Scowling Dragon]

English is a glitch, something WRONG with the natural order.

[Draconi Redfir]

None of this is relevant however, because they aren't English, who is not from the game.

Ummm... exept it is ENTIRELY RELEVENT.

The game made Gamzee, who made cal, who then gave it to dave, who was also made by the game. The game then copied cal and made doc scratch, who then became english.

bam.

[Scowling Dragon]

Doc scratch made Gamzee a crazy clown in an alternate universe.

[Gez]

Ummm... exept it is ENTIRELY RELEVENT.

The game made Gamzee, who made cal, who then gave it to dave, who was also made by the game. The game then copied cal and made doc scratch, who then became english.

bam.

The game also made John Egbert and the others. Therefore, by the same logic, here's the final version of the "Gicko vs. everybody else" graphic.

[Das Platyvark]

So, my school has an open mic coming up, and I've taken the opportunity to get 4 friends, dress ourselves up as the Midnight Crew (and Snowman) and sing the song.
I'm Slick right now, but it's changed multiple times, so I wouldn't go by that.

[memnarch]

So, my school has an open mic coming up, and I've taken the opportunity to get 4 friends, dress ourselves up as the Midnight Crew (and Snowman) and sing the song.
I'm Slick right now, but it's changed multiple times, so I wouldn't go by that.

Get a video if you can! That would be awesome to see.

[irenicObserver]

it's an antagonist in the same way the town is the antagonist in the silent hill series. everything that happens is because of the game, worlds are destroyed because of it, first guardians are born because of it, gods are formed because of it.

Hell even your favourite time traveling demon here owes his existence to the game.

One, look at my definition. Active opposition to the characters; Sburb and Silent Hill is just the setting where the bad happen, neither are conscious to do this, neither can be discerned nor claimed to have a specific goal in causing suffering for the Player, it just happens, basically a natural order; on my next point, the antagonists can be determined to be Derse(and potentially the horrorterrors by association) and anyone working for Lord English, logical conclusion there. Two, Lord English is not my favorite anything, just because he's your unfavorite does not make him my anything because you are invested in hating him.

I know you were asked this before but I wanna hear it again: why are you so invested in marginalizing any possibility Lord English had a hand in any conflict, when we know for an irrefutable fact his agents have on his orders? What is Lord English to you? I know you are tired of fans making theories and conjectures but I'm not doing that, I'm merely stating that we know for a fact that at least half the antagonistic characters can be traced to LE's machinations.

[Draconi Redfir]

I know you were asked this before but I wanna hear it again: why are you so invested in marginalizing any possibility Lord English had a hand in any conflict, when we know for an irrefutable fact his agents have on his orders? What is Lord English to you? I know you are tired of fans making theories and conjectures but I'm not doing that, I'm merely stating that we know for a fact that at least half the antagonistic characters can be traced to LE's machinations.

Baisically i am tired with the entire fandoms freaking obsession with him, no small thing can happen now without somebody shouting IT WAS BECAUSE OF LORD ENGLISH! right into my ear.

Dave's sword broke? ENGLISH DID IT!

John blinked? ENGLISH DID IT!

Some guy who just happened to be in the same room as that one guy who worked for english that one ti-IT WAS BECAUSE OF MOTHER F**ING ENGLISH YOU MORON!

[Gez]

Baisically i am tired with the entire fandoms freaking obsession with him, no small thing can happen now without somebody shouting IT WAS BECAUSE OF LORD ENGLISH! right into my ear.

Dave's sword broke? ENGLISH DID IT!

John blinked? ENGLISH DID IT!

Some guy who just happened to be in the same room as that one guy who worked for english that one ti-IT WAS BECAUSE OF MOTHER F**ING ENGLISH YOU MORON!

Gicko flips the **** out like the Weasel King? It's because of Lord English!

[Draconi Redfir]

Gicko flips the **** out like the Weasel King? It's because of Lord English!

Exactly

[Scowling Dragon]

Technically Lord english isn't behind everything.

Its dah huss.

[AgentPaper]

Baisically i am tired with the entire fandoms freaking obsession with him, no small thing can happen now without somebody shouting IT WAS BECAUSE OF LORD ENGLISH! right into my ear.

Dave's sword broke? ENGLISH DID IT!

John blinked? ENGLISH DID IT!

Some guy who just happened to be in the same room as that one guy who worked for english that one ti-IT WAS BECAUSE OF MOTHER F**ING ENGLISH YOU MORON!

That sucks and all, but it's not something that's happening here, so there's no reason for you to take it out on us. That just means you're the one coming across as the annoying fan. (or anti-fan, as it were)

You don't need to love English, but it' be nice if we could have a conversation about English without you doing an acrobatic pirouette off the handle.

[Draconi Redfir]

That sucks and all, but it's not something that's happening here, so there's no reason for you to take it out on us. That just means you're the one coming across as the annoying fan. (or anti-fan, as it were)

You don't need to love English, but it' be nice if we could have a conversation about English without you doing an acrobatic pirouette off the handle.

I've calmly and sensibly simply stated "i am not a fan of lord english because X Y and Z" and repeatedly gotten attacked for it, even on these boards. So yeah, nooot going to apologize if it seems like i'm the jerk right now.

[irenicObserver]

Okay did I do that to you? Can you name the people that did that to you? Because if you can't that makes it your problem not ours that you are being attacked by people we do not know nor agree with. In the same vein are you being attacked by same people making those outrageous theories? That's their beef with you not ours. What we are saying is very much reasonable.
You are calmly and sensibly stating Lord English isn't important, not saying you don't like him. Everything you said infers you do not like him but also explicitly states he's not important and that he must be my favorite for some reason I'm getting the sense you are lumping us in with the crazies, which is kind of offensive and really makes it your responses the problem.

Look, I am not saying Lord English is reponsible for everything, get your facts straight, your heart off your sleeve and listen to what I am telling you. The things his agents have done are his fault, plain, simple, logical and sensible.

[Scowling Dragon]

Anyway, my new theory is that Aranea is lying.

That pre-scratch alternia was just as chaotic as the new one.

Her explanation just functions on a on paper only level.

Unless their society works on a hive mind level (Which I don't think they do) Only the smallest amount of logic breaks the idea of a utopia world that has blood castes and relationships based on hate.

[Gez]

Her explanation just functions on a on paper only level.

The same could be said of A2's society, which indeed was shown not to work for humans in B2, but worked nonetheless with trolls because aliens sure are weird!.

Also, I like this explanation posted on another forum:

What we've heard of A1 suggests its society was peaceful to the point of being unable to produce heroes capable of seeing their Sgrub to a victorious conclusion. That is to say, it was a utopia to the extent that A2 was a dystopia.

Mythology would be a more accurate source of comparison than politics. A1 corresponds to the pastoral utopian ideal, a psychic alien Arcadia. An important part of the Arcadian myth is that it's in the past, and has been lost forever. It can be compared to the idea of innocence - it's said to be both innocent of the crimes pervading the society from which it's looked back on, and innocent of the knowledge needed to protect itself. It is not, itself, a civilization, but rather said to be the natural state of things, free from brutal, mechanistic "civilizing" influences pursuing their various goals.

This is part of a recurring tradition that sees society degenerating through a succession of morally inferior eras until the present. I'm gonna call this one like I see it. The Golden Age is a time of stability, innocence, harmony, plenty, and good times; the natural order has stood since the dawn of time and everything's just great. This is followed by a Silver Age, whose inhabitants grow complacent with the ease of their lives, and unwittingly invent ways to gently caress it up by turning away from the gods; there's still much that is worth defending in this time, but the seeds of evil have been planted. This gives way to the Bronze Age, also called the Heroic Age, when the strife of the Silver Age gives way to war; this introduces greatness and glory, but also new suffering and violence. Last comes the Iron Age, which is always the present, in which even the meager nobility of heroes has been lost, and evil is the default state of existence.

The time ****ery of Homestuck means that we can assign the golden age to A1, which is long-lost; the silver age to B1, which was ignorant of the circumstances of its creation and thought itself unique in the universe; the bronze age to B2, where heroes and gods are uniting for a fierce battle while the previous age goes to ruin; and the iron age to A2, whose miserable society of brutal despotism has been arranged according to the whims of a trans-universal incarnation of ultimate evil. That's not quite chronological, but it does allow for the slightly more modern notion of a happy ending that's a new beginning, as well as being consistent with the depiction of troll society being more extreme in most obvious ways in comparison to human society.

It makes sense to me and fits with the themes of the story.

[Scowling Dragon]

Again: It would need a hive mind/ lots of mind control to work.

Or really good councilors.

I get more power (That lower bloods can't even compete with), a longer lifespan (Which I can't achieve), and more responsibility (Which not everybody wants) just by being being born differently.

The blood castes still exist. Im not sure what would be different at all.

A2 works because it was manipulated to be by Scratch. He mind screwed them so much that murder became a social norm.

A1 just doesn't seem to be different at all. Im not sure how it would work out.

[AgentPaper]

Again: It would need a hive mind/ lots of mind control to work.

Or really good councilors.

I get more power (That lower bloods can't even compete with), a longer lifespan (Which I can't achieve), and more responsibility (Which not everybody wants) just by being being born differently.

The blood castes still exist. Im not sure what would be different at all.

A2 works because it was manipulated to be by Scratch. He mind screwed them so much that murder became a social norm.

A1 just doesn't seem to be different at all. Im not sure how it would work out.

It works because they are trolls, not humans. Trolls are different from humans on a fundamental level. I can't explain to you why it works because I'm human too. A troll could try to explain it to us but it would end up sounding ridiculous and nonsensical because we're different on a fundamental level.

Fact is it works for trolls, and that's really all there is to it unless we're told otherwise.

[memnarch]

Well, I finally got around to finishing my old project; Beat Mesa and The Scratch.

The whole thing

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Closer view of the swing part

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The Scratch in progress

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Picture of John

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Flying off

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[Scowling Dragon]

Fact is it works for trolls, and that's really all there is to it unless we're told otherwise.

Thats not how fiction works. There are some parts of fiction driven by things that have no explanation (such as the unavoidable Sburb chess war), but if something is this radical it needs at least a basic explanation.

Like ants. They don't have a order "Just because their ants". There is a reason. And as a human I understand it anyway.

And on the recent update:

Whadda ya know, EXACTLY what im saying. And this is very high up on the system. This could be very damaging.

So there IS no reason why this works except for maybe peer pressure and pride.

[LoneStarNorth]

And on the recent update:

Whadda ya know, EXACTLY what im saying. And this is very high up on the system. This could be very damaging.

So there IS no reason why this works except for maybe peer pressure and pride.

Pre-scratch, Feferi is in charge and the civilization is basically happy. Meenah is set to inherit but can't stand the way it all works.

Post-scratch, Meenah is in charge and the civilization is basically horrible. Feferi is set to inherit but can't stand the way it all works.

Makes sense to me.

[Scowling Dragon]

Meenah doesnt WANT to inherit.

Thats very different.
Thier social order is left without a leader for thousands of years till she dies

Worse still if a aggressive person like her decides to become the empress.

[AgentPaper]

Thats not how fiction works. There are some parts of fiction driven by things that have no explanation (such as the unavoidable Sburb chess war), but if something is this radical it needs at least a basic explanation.

Like ants. They don't have a order "Just because their ants". There is a reason. And as a human I understand it anyway.

And on the recent update:

Whadda ya know, EXACTLY what im saying. And this is very high up on the system. This could be very damaging.

So there IS no reason why this works except for maybe peer pressure and pride.

I don't see why this is more radical than, well, just about everything else in the comic. The way the medium works, the classes, the timelines, etc. Do you really find all of those easier to believe than an alien society having a radically different social structure than humans?

[Scowling Dragon]

The medium is different. Its a gigantic thing based off of paradoxes and crazy logic. Its stylistic. Part of it is how the creatures living in the medium fight the war just "Because". They are created for this crazy game thats based around creating a crazy universe.

Just because somethings are like that doesn't mean everything falls under this.

Yes, Its easier for me to accept the medium (Because its its own type of universe with its own types of rules. Sort of like alice in wonderland) then it is for me to accept the social order and the love system (That takes place in a universe with the same rules as our own).

[Shogo]

I don't really see the problem with how the two different versions of Alternia work.

Even the fact that the blood caste system stuck around makes sense, since blood tends to play an important role in how powerful you'll be.

In the "Nice" version, it's clearly a society built on the idea that the Strong protect the Weak.

In the "Mean" version, Scratch pushed them to build a society where the Strong oppress the Weak.

Even the fact that Hate romance apparently still exist isn't that big of a deal. Living in a nicer place doesn't exactly mean you can't hate people. It's not like hate is an emotion reserved only for those who are murderous scumbags.