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    Default lich phylactery

    There are, infamously ,not a lot of rules on lichdom and associated accouterments, and as a result, I have some questions.

    You'll make a phylactery and pay the 120k and 4800xp (ouch! dread necromancer, you never looked so good!) and then you have you phylactery.

    I've got a couple of questions:

    1) what exactly are the limitations on what shape the phylactery can take? I assume that the stats are the same (The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40) do they all have to be tiny? do they all in fact have the same stats? what materials can I make it out of?

    2) if I am killed in lich form, does my body immediately crumble to dust or rot away rapidly like in mortal kombat? I "reappear 1d10 days after death" but where? at the location of my phylactery? that seems problematic since I'd probably want it somewhere inaccessible and/or remote, so it might be something of a hassle or me to find my way back to adventurin' in an expeditious manner. does this mean I'd need to put my phylactery in a place that's relatively easy to get to? that's make it easier for my enemies to get to it.

    if my body disappears upon death and then slowly regenerates at my phylactery like xykon, then that makes sense. but if I am killed and my body stays where I am killed and a new one grows back at my phylactery, what happens to my other body? can I cast 'revive undead' on it and then 'awaken undead' for a sort of pseudo-simulacrum of myself?

    3) if my phylactery is destroyed (and I am not killed) then can I build a new one? if so, do I have to pay that unbelievable sum again, or is it free?

    I can't find rules for any of this stuff anyplace, I am reasonably certain that they do not exist. if I am wrong, I'd love to look them up.

    I'd also love not to biodegrade, but that's either fluff or an eternal wand of gentle repose.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    1) what exactly are the limitations on what shape the phylactery can take? I assume that the stats are the same (The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40) do they all have to be tiny? do they all in fact have the same stats? what materials can I make it out of?
    This is the only RAW-ish answer I can give you on this one=> While IMO you can't make it out of w/e you want, That doesn't mean you can't make a box around it out of adamantium, and than use Force Chest (Spell Compendium) with maybe permanency of sorts? And than suspended it over a roaring volcano on admanatium platform... Well the last bit is too far, but protection can be creative ^^

    P.S. On #2 I would say out of RAI, you fade/crumble and rebuild/re-appear next to the place your soul is at [phylactery], so IMO its ill-advised to bury it 1000 feet deep or cast "Imprisonment" on it heh = )
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    3) if my phylactery is destroyed (and I am not killed) then can I build a new one? if so, do I have to pay that unbelievable sum again, or is it free?

    I can't find rules for any of this stuff anyplace, I am reasonably certain that they do not exist. if I am wrong, I'd love to look them up.

    I'd also love not to biodegrade, but that's either fluff or an eternal wand of gentle repose.
    Dont know, but if someone's strong enough to destroy your phylactery do you really have the time to take 4 months to make a new one?
    Your soul fragment has either returned to you(yes) or gone onto the afterlife(no)

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    It would seem to me that as long as you put in enough room for you to reconstitute yourself and warded against teleporting in, you could just put the phylactery hundreds of feet below the ground in a chamber, and simply cast teleport to get out once you were finished with the reconstitution.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    There have been SO many threads about phylacteries. The consensus is that the best way to protect it is with divination-blocking spells, and...

    by making your phylactery a single coin, and then spending it.

    Nobody will ever find it.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Daftendirekt View Post
    There have been SO many threads about phylacteries. The consensus is that the best way to protect it is with divination-blocking spells, and...

    by making your phylactery a single coin, and then spending it.

    Nobody will ever find it.
    Now that is a truly diabolical scheme. Of course, it does run the risk of your phylactery being damaged, destroyed, or discovered (due to unexpected resistance to damage or destruction) at random due to various things people do with coins other than spend them - shaving coins to stretch the money a tiny bit further, punching a hole in the middle to put it on a necklace, melting it down for the metal, using it as a material component (particularly copper pieces for Detect Thoughts), and so on.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Daftendirekt View Post
    There have been SO many threads about phylacteries. The consensus is that the best way to protect it is with divination-blocking spells, and...

    by making your phylactery a single coin, and then spending it.

    Nobody will ever find it.
    But you know... coins get destroyed. Accidentially (it's on unlucky orc who encountered blaster-type sorcerer and got hit with maximized, empoered and whatnoted meteor swar because said sorcerer was in a bad mood) or intentionally (let's make gold bars!).

    And wouldn't it be a problem if you start regrowing in someones wallet?

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Libris mortis (p. 151) says that:
    • Lich can make only one phylactery.
    • Lich suffers no harm if it's phylactery is destroyed, but can't make a new one.
    • If lich wuth no phylactery is destroyed, it's destroyed forever.
    • Phylactery in antimagic fieldd can't regenerate lich (but it will 1d10 days after removing from AMF).
    • Must contain or bear arcane incriptions (hard to do with coin...)

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    I had an idea where a Lich, an Elan, and a Warforged, would meet every hundred years or so for a cup of tea together, the tea set being the liches phylactery.
    It solves a lot of problems for them,as the tea set is almost certainly never going to get broken through normal use, and if some adventurers decide to get uppity, there is two very powerful beings who will come running to help the lich.
    After all, they're friends.
    Last edited by Ravens_cry; 2012-01-19 at 05:27 PM.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Ravens_cry View Post
    I had an idea where a Lich, an Elan, and a Warforged, would meet every hundred years or so for a cup of tea together, the tea set being the liches phylactery.
    It solves a lot of problems for them,as the tea set is almost certainly never going to get broken through normal use, and if some adventurers decide to get uppity, there is two very powerful beings who will come running to help the lich.
    After all, they're friends.
    That's a really cute idea! I like it a lot! My game's set in eberron, so that could be an option once I level up some more.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    As I pondered the idea of making a phylactery when making a dread necromancer, I had a great idea.

    I would make a beautiful golden box with a crystal oval top to peer inside and inlaid crystals or flawless gems to be embedded into the gold. Inside the box will be a purely ornate dagger with more gems on the hilt. The weapon lies on a pillow of smooth royal purple silk and will serve as my decoy.

    Should my box be taken and the dagger destroyed, my true phylactery would be a small bronze ring buried in the cotton inside the pillow. Short some jerk throwing the whole damn box in lava, I should be safe from total destruction

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Mine would be a page, just a page, of the book of exalted deeds. It would then have abjuration be spammed on it so A. it's all but immortal (millions of hardness, immune to all five energies, etc) and B. shows up as just as magical and good as the book, so it appears to just be part of it.

    Now get some random paladin to read the book. It teleports off. You never, ever have to worry again.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottzar View Post
    Mine would be a page, just a page, of the book of exalted deeds. It would then have abjuration be spammed on it so A. it's all but immortal (millions of hardness, immune to all five energies, etc) and B. shows up as just as magical and good as the book, so it appears to just be part of it.

    Now get some random paladin to read the book. It teleports off. You never, ever have to worry again.
    Where do you regrow when you die? I don't know the rules on the book, but where does it "teleport off" to?

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottzar View Post
    Mine would be a page, just a page, of the book of exalted deeds. It would then have abjuration be spammed on it so A. it's all but immortal (millions of hardness, immune to all five energies, etc) and B. shows up as just as magical and good as the book, so it appears to just be part of it.

    Now get some random paladin to read the book. It teleports off. You never, ever have to worry again.
    what page of BoED is the book of exalted deeds on? I know it's in there somewhere, I just can't find it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    what page of BoED is the book of exalted deeds on? I know it's in there somewhere, I just can't find it.
    Funny enough, it's not in the BoED and is actually on page 277 of the DMG.
    Last edited by Rausdower; 2012-01-19 at 09:29 PM.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    I have a lich antagonist in the background of a campaign I'm running. Granted, this is built so that the PC's can finish it if they're good enough, so this isn't quite as good as some options above if you want to be indestructible.

    The concept is around the phylactery being an item familiar.

    The lich has a reanimated pet (something small, mobile, and can fly. a raven for flavor maybe) that is meant to pose as its familiar. In reality, the lich has an item familiar with all the abilities chosen such that it has full awareness of its surroundings (detect good, detect thoughts, teleportation, has abjurations on it, etc.). The item familiar is actually within the body of the reanimated pet. If the lich dies, the pet flies away with the familiaractery inside. The familiar orders the pet around, telling it how to best avoid danger and get to a safe place set aside for regenerating the lich.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Rausdower View Post
    Funny enough, it's not in the BoED and is actually on page 277 of the DMG.
    Silly me thank you, I never would've found that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottzar View Post
    Mine would be a page, just a page, of the book of exalted deeds. It would then have abjuration be spammed on it so A. it's all but immortal (millions of hardness, immune to all five energies, etc) and B. shows up as just as magical and good as the book, so it appears to just be part of it.

    Now get some random paladin to read the book. It teleports off. You never, ever have to worry again.
    firstly, thank you for the advice. unfortunately, LM shoots that down for a couple of reasons:

    Quote Originally Posted by Libris Mortis
    "A phylactery cannot be part of another magic item, nor may additional magical properties be built into it."
    This rule probably results from the designers' awareness of how hard it is to destroy magic items (especially artifacts, as you suggested) but it is unfortunately not possible for me to do RAW.

    there is also the problem that the BoED is not precisely "destroyed" when the pally or whatever chump I scrounge up is done reading it, it just "vanishes" and can't be reread by the same character.

    Assuming my body respawns at the location of the phylactery (assuming making it a page in a BoED were possible) this would be a pretty big problem, similar to the copper piece phylactery regarding the uncertainty of its location since it would mean that I'd respawn in the presence of a significantly powerful good-aligned divine spellcaster, maybe even a cleric. I could get turned, or maybe even destroyed.

    good idea though
    Last edited by Venger; 2012-01-19 at 11:28 PM.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    make the phylactery a rock and put it in the elemental plane of earth or you can make it as the cornerstone of an important building (make sure you have enough hollow space beneath to regenerate)

    another way to hide the phylactery is to make it a book and hide it in a library that you own

    if you could make one that's bigger than tiny then you could make it as a coffin and bury it in a cemetery.

    if my body disappears upon death and then slowly regenerates at my phylactery like xykon...
    you know that there was a time when ppl thought you didn't regenerate but you took another corpse/body like the dracolich does? i forgot where i found that info though

    edit: there is also the whole controversial hurling the phylactery into orbit/moon
    Last edited by blazingshadow; 2012-01-20 at 12:19 AM.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Just as a side note: I always ignored the rule that a lich can make only one phylactery. I had the rules be that if the phylactery was destroyed, the lich was destroyed, but I also made phylacteries tough as hell to destroy, a la the one ring. Just how I played it though.

    Incidentally, just because no one has mentioned it in this particular phylactery thread, you could make your phylactery a needle, in an egg, in a duck, in a hare, in a chest, on a distant island in the middle of an ocean.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Scottzar View Post
    Mine would be a page, just a page, of the book of exalted deeds. It would then have abjuration be spammed on it so A. it's all but immortal (millions of hardness, immune to all five energies, etc) and B. shows up as just as magical and good as the book, so it appears to just be part of it.

    Now get some random paladin to read the book. It teleports off. You never, ever have to worry again.
    I'm fairly certain that trying to do this would count as attempting to read it, which iirc has nasty side affects for evil characters. Even if it didn't specifically trigger the item, it would probably piss off alot of celestials and what's worse, insure your phylactery is always in the possession of either very good-aligned characters (who want to destroy you) or evil characters (who want to destroy the book.)
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by blazingshadow View Post
    make the phylactery a rock and put it in the elemental plane of earth or you can make it as the cornerstone of an important building (make sure you have enough hollow space beneath to regenerate)

    another way to hide the phylactery is to make it a book and hide it in a library that you own

    if you could make one that's bigger than tiny then you could make it as a coffin and bury it in a cemetery.

    you know that there was a time when ppl thought you didn't regenerate but you took another corpse/body like the dracolich does? i forgot where i found that info though

    edit: there is also the whole controversial hurling the phylactery into orbit/moon
    I like the book thing, the whole "tree in the forest" deal.

    really? the whole corpsetaking Judge Death thing is sort of cool. I'll ask my DM (eventually)

    hurling it into orbit/the moon is fine and all, but how would I get back when it was time if I regenerated there? that's way too far to teleport (162,000 miles at the closest, and even the zaniest urpriest build can't get his CL up to 1620, much less a humble chameleon like myself) I know that word of recall takes you an unlimited distance (as long as it's on the same plane) but it has only 1 component:

    verbal

    doesn't the surface of the moon function as a zone of "silence" ? I didn't spec to have 7th level spells and don't plan on DMMing silent spell just to do this one trick.

    or am I overthinking this? and would word of recall work on the surface of the moon despite the lack of air to transmit soundwaves? (would the universe hear me talking and would the spell work anyway?)

    I'm totally cool with hiding it on the moon (build me a moonbase!) I just need to know that I'd get back, or the party would have to do without me and I couldn't do any adventures.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strormer View Post
    Just as a side note: I always ignored the rule that a lich can make only one phylactery. I had the rules be that if the phylactery was destroyed, the lich was destroyed, but I also made phylacteries tough as hell to destroy, a la the one ring. Just how I played it though.

    Incidentally, just because no one has mentioned it in this particular phylactery thread, you could make your phylactery a needle, in an egg, in a duck, in a hare, in a chest, on a distant island in the middle of an ocean.
    hm. I'll ask my DM about that. 120k and 4800xp is more than anyone ever pays for anything and having that destroyed with no chnce for repair seems unfair to me.

    heehee, I'll see what the topography's like. we're in eberron, so all the remote islands we encounter already have people on them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahenobarbi View Post
    [*] Must contain or bear arcane incriptions (hard to do with coin...)[/LIST]
    Coins often have inscriptions on the edge about when and where they were minted. Could disguise the inscriptions as that, because, who really looks that closely at their money?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    This rule probably results from the designers' awareness of how hard it is to destroy magic items (especially artifacts, as you suggested) but it is unfortunately not possible for me to do RAW.

    there is also the problem that the BoED is not precisely "destroyed" when the pally or whatever chump I scrounge up is done reading it, it just "vanishes" and can't be reread by the same character.
    But it isn't 'part' of the BoED. It's just placed inside the book and sovereign glued to the spine so it looks like a page. If it was part of it it would be more or less indestructible. As it is a targeted dispel magic of sufficient level on the phylactery itself could render it potentially destroyable, without even harming the book. As could the numerous forms of object destroying spells (disintegrate cast on the book? likely to spare it and devastate my phylactery)

    And that's the point: it teleports off, and thanks to (insert one of many teleport following abjurations, or the fact that the page is sovereign glued in) my phylactery follows. It's important to realise the distinction. I make a page phylactery, which is really vulnerable, hyper abjuration buff it, and literally glue it into the book.

    Also, I second making it an item familiar. Get increased sapience each time. Craft it to be +6 of intelligence. Craft in the ability to use dimension door as a dedicated power with the special purpose of staying alive.
    At level 18 this gives you an ego score of:
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    +6 from enhancement bonus.
    Suddenly, if anyone pick it (and possibly the book) up, a DC 24 will save.
    Every three levels past 20 you get another increased sapience and the DC increases by 4 each time. Failure means the item compels the holder to read it, causing it to teleport off.

    Edit:
    Quote Originally Posted by Strormer View Post
    Incidentally, just because no one has mentioned it in this particular phylactery thread, you could make your phylactery a needle, in an egg, in a duck, in a hare, in a chest, on a distant island in the middle of an ocean.
    Koschei would be proud.
    Last edited by Scottzar; 2012-01-20 at 03:21 AM.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    The best place to keep it is somewhere completely hostile to living creatures, airless, full of negative energy, poisons, diseases and mind affecting things.

    So yeah an evil moon base would do pretty well, just make sure you can prepare a silent greater teleport and you're good to go

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    As already mentioned phylactery can't have any additional properties or be a part of another magic item. So you could put it in a book or in item familiar, but it couldn't be part of item familiar.

    Also security by obscurity is poor design. Especially if you want it to last forever. I think something like
    • Go to place you can make inaccessible (but possible to leave)
    • Put your phylactery there
    • Make it inaccessible
    • Leave
    • If you find a way to access it go, pickup your phylactery and create a new place wuth improved defences


    Would work best (because it allows constant improvement as you get better, unlike "security by obscurity' which has a increasing chance of something going (accidentally) wrong).

    Quote Originally Posted by Daftendirekt View Post
    Coins often have inscriptions on the edge about when and where they were minted. Could disguise the inscriptions as that, because, who really looks that closely at their money?
    In 1000 years someone eventually finds it, and goes to study it (of pays with it to someone smarter who studies it because it might be valuable) and finds out it's magical (and eventually that it's phylactery), you're screwed.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    If you ever get to 21st level, there is the spell "Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery" in Champions of Ruin. Every time you cast it it makes your Casting Stat Modifier more Phylacteries, and it specifically says it can be re-cast, so you can have the entire world as your Phylactery.
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    I'm bringing this up and hoping that the DM lets me get away with a +1 Flaming Horse. Just putting that out there.

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    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    MindFlayer

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    How about you put the phylactery inside a tube of Chapstick? I've never seen what it looks like when you run out of the wax stuff. You could just rely on the fact that people would lose it.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by DementedFellow View Post
    How about you put the phylactery inside a tube of Chapstick? I've never seen what it looks like when you run out of the wax stuff. You could just rely on the fact that people would lose it.
    I like that a lot.
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    If your in a modern setting, the perfect thing to do is to have your phylactery be a sock, keep sending it through the drier with the other clothes until it mysteriously disappears. You can now be the only person the see whatever plane all the socks that disappear in the drier go (probably a sub-plane of the Psuedoelemental plane of wool).
    Avatar by TinyMushroom.

  30. Top - End - #30
    Troll in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Necroticplague View Post
    If your in a modern setting, the perfect thing to do is to have your phylactery be a sock, keep sending it through the drier with the other clothes until it mysteriously disappears. You can now be the only person the see whatever plane all the socks that disappear in the drier go (probably a sub-plane of the Psuedoelemental plane of wool).
    heehee. settingwise, my character is a 1930s new york bootlegger that travelled back in time with his wife (another PC) and we are in eberron, specifically the Lhazaar Principalities, so the setting's eberron with the few modest modern technological additions my character's making to it (handguns, record players, etc) via craft (mechanical)
    fight my brute! it's a lot of fun
    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    How telling is it that people would rather discuss the taxonomy of tomatoes (which are delicious) than the truenamer class?
    Iron Chef Medals!
    Amazing Princess Mononoke avatar by Dispozition

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