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Thread: Wizards learning spells ability
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2012-11-25, 11:28 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Wizards learning spells ability
Wizards are tier 1, sorc tier 2. In my games my wizards generally don't learn spells from scrolls, does this push them down into T2, or does wizards have some other edge over sorcs?
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2012-11-25, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
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2012-11-25, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
Tier listings tend to assume a certain set of variables, such as moderate optimization and wealth to spend. While having wizards who won't scribe spells (by player choice or scroll rarity) won't technically change the tier of the class, you'll notice that wizards are not necessarily as powerful without additional scrolls.
...Which, in practical terms, may mean a lot or may mean nothing. You may find that it turns wizards into INT-sorcerers, only making use of the two spells gained each level. You may find it makes no difference, because your wizard player knows what two spells to pick each level for maximum effectiveness. It may not matter because Fireball is the best spell ever.
It really ranges on the group, the playstyle, and their familiarity with the system.SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread
A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
original image
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2012-11-25, 12:02 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
Originally Posted by inuyashaOriginally Posted by Jormengand
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2012-11-25, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
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Re: Wizards learning spells ability
Originally Posted by inuyashaOriginally Posted by Jormengand
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2012-11-25, 12:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards learning spells ability
In a technical sense no. The Wizard will still naturally know more spells, get bonus feats that let him fiddle with those spells, and has more options (non-scroll based) for getting even more spells.
In a practical sense a lot of this will depend on how you personally run your campaign. Tiers address versatility. But if in your universe 90% of the problems players encounter can be solved with high damage output alone then a lot of that versatility becomes redundant.Doc Roc: We're going to eat ourselves.
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2012-11-25, 12:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
All it means is that they have to waste a feat on Collegiate Wizard.
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2012-11-25, 01:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards learning spells ability
What is best tier 1 or 2... dont understand your count!
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2012-11-25, 01:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Wizards learning spells ability
I have seen wizards played poorly, always cast magic missile or fireball — even at high level — which would make them Tier 4.
The reason that they are Tier 1 is because of how they can be played.
Basically they can have a different spell in every slot which allows them an unrivalled flexibility — oh and they can change their spells depending upon the challenge.
There are many ways in which wizards can increase their options.
- By going up levels
- Learning spells from scrolls
- Paying NPC wizards to borrow their books
- If you have two wizards in the party then they can swap spells
- If the party defeat a wizard then they get to access their spell book
If your players aren't doing all of these, then it is not the class which is poor.π = 4
Consider a 5' radius blast: this affects 4 squares which have a circumference of 40' — Actually it's worse than that.
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2012-11-25, 02:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2008
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
I am speaking about what is best for the particular campaign. If the characters run up against nothing but orcs all the time - or they just never tried other spells - and Fireball has worked for them, then having access to the entire PHB in scrolls isn't going to make much of a difference to them. Also, the party's wizard probably won't be that impressive, beyond wide areas of damage.
This tier list is what we are talking about.SpoilerThank you to zimmerwald1915 for the Gustave avatar.
The full set is here.
Air Raccoon avatar provided by Ceika
from the Request an OotS Style Avatar thread
A big thanks to PrinceAquilaDei for the gryphon avatar!
original image
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2012-11-25, 04:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2007
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- Boston, MA
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
My homebrew:
Spoiler
Completed:
ToB disciplines:
The Narrow Bridge
The Broken Blade
Prestige classess:
Disciple of Karsus -PrC for Karsites.
The Seekers of Lost Swords and the Preserver of Future Blades Two interelated Tome of Battle Prcs,
Master of the Hidden Seal - Binder/Divine hybrid
Knight of the Grave- Necromancy using Gish
Worthwhile links:
Age of Warriors
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2012-11-25, 04:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2012
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
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2012-11-25, 05:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2011
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- Wisconsin, USA
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2012-11-25, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Wizards learning spells ability
The tier list has already been linked, but in short, T1 is capable of breaking campaigns wide open in several different ways each day, and switching between them, while T2 only has a few ways it can break a campaign and can't easily switch. Neither is really "best", but T1 is more overpowered and overversatile. ("Best" in the tier list is usually considered either T3 or T4, as those have enough options and power to be useful and interesting in a party without requiring exorbitant DM effort to remain challenged, or contrariwise excessive DM effort to remain alive and contribute, like T5/T6.)
Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2012-11-25, 07:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2011
Re: Wizards learning spells ability
You know, reading about just how badly fighters are outclassed by full spellcasters makes me actually sympathize with Eugene. A poorly built fighter really has no business going against an epic level sorcerer, even if said sorcerer is an idiot. Waiting for Julia to come of age is the only sensible course of action. At least she will have a chance eventually.