lich phylactery

[DementedFellow]

heehee. settingwise, my character is a 1930s new york bootlegger that travelled back in time with his wife (another PC) and we are in eberron, specifically the Lhazaar Principalities, so the setting's eberron with the few modest modern technological additions my character's making to it (handguns, record players, etc) via craft (mechanical)

Chapstick was invented in the 1910s. Just sayin'.

[Venger]

Chapstick was invented in the 1910s. Just sayin'.

oh, no, I'm aware. I looked it up as soon as you suggested it to check (didn't know that) I was just telling people that my character is from 1933 so they'd feel free to suggest modernish things too (I love all the answers I've been getting so far, keep 'em up)

[Psyren]

There have been SO many threads about phylacteries. The consensus is that the best way to protect it is with divination-blocking spells, and...

by making your phylactery a single coin, and then spending it.

Nobody will ever find it.

A Tiny coin would be between 1 and 2 feet across, making it roughly the size of a dinner plate. That would stand out, I think.

[fryplink]

A Tiny coin would be between 1 and 2 feet across, making it roughly the size of a dinner plate. That would stand out, I think.

Well then sell 499 dinner plates and 1 phylactery to a china shop. Enchant all of them to be super tough with minor images creating patterns on them. Thus the soul-hidey-place has the runes covered with minor images, then, Magic Aura all of them to hide them to detect magic spells. Make the plates wildly popular, then unpopular. Now they are widely distributed but no longer in circulation. You regenerate in some one's pantry full of cobwebs and un-used china.

[DementedFellow]

Well then sell 499 dinner plates and 1 phylactery to a china shop. Enchant all of them to be super tough with minor images creating patterns on them. Thus the soul-hidey-place has the runes covered with minor images, then, Magic Aura all of them to hide them to detect magic spells. Make the plates wildly popular, then unpopular. Now they are widely distributed but no longer in circulation. You regenerate in some one's pantry full of cobwebs and un-used china.

I see it now. Old Lady Larson hears a noise in the middle of the night. She goes to investigate it and sees a skeleton stepping out of the cupboard. He turns to her and puts a finger to where his lips would be, "Shhhh."

[Psyren]

Why would dinner plates with 20 hardness ever be unpopular?

[fryplink]

Why would dinner plates with 20 hardness ever be unpopular?

Half of the allure behind china is the ease with which they break. They're only special because they aren't used often. They aren't used often because they break. I guess I undermined my defense method. ah well.

[blazingshadow]

or am I overthinking this? and would word of recall work on the surface of the moon despite the lack of air to transmit soundwaves? (would the universe hear me talking and would the spell work anyway?)

use a silent plane shift then another plane shift back to the material plane and teleport back to the party if need be. it's a lot easier if you could find a way to cast silent greater teleport or make a teleportation circle item and put it on the moon

[motoko's ghost]

Make a really obvious looking phylactery with suspiciously light protection.
Make a small unadorned box hidden behind enough traps to give grimtooth pause.

Laugh as all the meta-gamers go after the small box as your very obvious phylactery is safely holding your soul.

[Golden Ladybug]

Wanna know the BEST place to hide a Phylactery? Somewhere that no one would expect and is perfect to defend against troublesome adventurers?

The Positive Energy Plane.

I am being completely serious. Think about it; The Positive Energy Plane force feeds any creatures that is on it Positive Energy, in the form of HP. If they stay there too long, or go too close to the centre of the Plane, they immolate from having too many HP. As a Lich, you don't even need to care about that, because you're both Undead, and respawn when you die. Place your Phylactery in a box shielded against Planar Effects, coat it in protective Abjurations, place it in a hostile area of the P.E.P. and when you are killed, you'll revive inside your Box. Chill for 1d10 Days (stock the Box with books and puzzles) and once you've finished reviving, Plane Shift out of there.

Any Adventurers who try and find it would need to search the Positive Energy Plane by hand, because the box your Phylactery is in is obviously immune to scrying, and doing so would put them into an area where they would explode from being too healthy.

And who would expect a Lich to hide their Phylactery on the Positive Energy Plane?

[motoko's ghost]

And who would expect a Lich to hide their Phylactery on the Positive Energy Plane?

Everyone who just read that.

[Golden Ladybug]

Everyone who just read that.

Well played, my friend, well played...

Now I need to think of somewhere even MORE ingenious to hide Phylacteries...

[Zale]

Make a really obvious looking phylactery with suspiciously light protection.
Make a small unadorned box hidden behind enough traps to give grimtooth pause.

Laugh as all the meta-gamers go after the small box as your very obvious phylactery is safely holding your soul.

That is brilliant.

I love this idea.

[motoko's ghost]

That is brilliant.

I love this idea.

Thanks, the only problem with this is that it causes meta-meta-gaming and your one step from a cluster**** that will implode your player's brains.

[Ravens_cry]

Thanks, the only problem with this is that it causes meta-meta-gaming and your one step from a cluster**** that will implode your player's brains.

Whose to say that wasn't the goal all along?
In game (and possibly out of it depending on the group) however, you run into the problem of someone actually actually taking the obvious choice because it is obvious.
Hell, as an adventurer, I'd just smash both. If it's a decoy, well, it wouldn't have been worth much to sell, and we had a little fun venting our frustration on an inanimate object. If it wasn't, we just put paid to a Lich. Huzzahs all around.
Instead, rely on player greed, make it something they don't want to destroy, like a gem. Imagine how much a Tiny (the size of a housecat) size gem would be worth. You'll have every player turn Haley in no time.
And if greed doesn't work, I am sure there is other ways.

[motoko's ghost]

Whose to say that wasn't the goal all along?
In game (and possibly out of it depending on the group) however, you run into the problem of someone actually actually taking the obvious choice because it is obvious.
Hell, as an adventurer, I'd just smash both. If it's a decoy, well, it wouldn't have been worth much to sell, and we had a little fun venting our frustration on an inanimate object. If it wasn't, we just put paid to a Lich. Huzzahs all around.
Instead, rely on player greed, make it something they don't want to destroy, like a gem. Imagine how much a Tiny (the size of a housecat) size gem would be worth. You'll have every player turn Haley in no time.
And if greed doesn't work, I am sure there is other ways.

Have a spell so that if one is smashed the other teleports away.

Use the gem as leverage over the lich. hello new servant!

Every man has his price.

[Ravens_cry]

Have a spell so that if one is smashed the other teleports away.

As a player? Dimensional anchor.

Use the gem as leverage over the lich. hello new servant!

Every man has his price.

What is a few decades or even centuries compared to eternity?

[motoko's ghost]

As a player? Dimensional anchor.

What is a few decades or even centuries compared to eternity?

Isnt there a spell/item that blocks dimensional anchor?

Indeed, assuming you dont just kill it anyway.

[Ravens_cry]

Isnt there a spell/item that blocks dimensional anchor?

Maybe? Antimagic field is another possibility, though it makes the smashing harder.

Indeed, assuming you dont just kill it anyway.

Which 'it' are we talk about here? If you mean the lich, unless you destroy the phylactery, that's what my point about making it something they don't want to destroy was about, ithe lich is just going to keep coming back. Other common suggestions are to make it part of a living thing, like a PC. Past a certain level, when spells like Clone and True Resurrection are available, this is less viable, but for a good portion of the game, it's mean.

[Venger]

Isnt there a spell/item that blocks dimensional anchor?

Indeed, assuming you dont just kill it anyway.

well, freedom of movement would arguably circumvent dimensional anchor (they are the same level, after all)

Maybe? Antimagic field is another possibility, though it makes the smashing harder.

Which 'it' are we talk about here? If you mean the lich, unless you destroy the phylactery, that's what my point about making it something they don't want to destroy was about, ithe lich is just going to keep coming back. Other common suggestions are to make it part of a living thing, like a PC. Past a certain level, when spells like Clone and True Resurrection are available, this is less viable, but for a good portion of the game, it's mean.

are you saying the people who want to destroy the phylactery would cast antimagic field near it? wouldn't that undo all the protections on any phylactery? it would also prevent any word of recall traps or similar effects on the phylactery from going off (trigger/activation to teleport when anyone but me or a party member (so they can investigate in case they haven't heard from me 10 days after my death) gets near it) so that could be a monkey wrench in my plans.

making it part of a PC is indeed pretty mean, but that carries the same problems as carrying/wearing your phylactery on your person. if an enemy kills you, they are going to go through your stuff, appraise/identify it all and then realise what your phylactery is and destroy it or make you their bitch with it like davy jones, either of which is an undesirable option.

If an enemy is big and powerful enough to kill me, the lich, then they'll have long since filled up on the appetizers that are the rest of the party and go through their stuff too. we're a party of 6 level 9s and 10s right now (xp discrepancies) so anything that can kill all of us is going to leave us in pieces, exposing the metal plate or steel pin phylactery from inside the unwitting totally informed and complicit party member that agreed to carry my phylactery in his/her body

since wearing/carrying your own phylactery means that if something kills you, you are going to die (largely negating the point of lichdom), having someone else wear/carry it means you're putting your unlife on the odds of them being able to survive indefinitely, which, depending on the character, may or may not be wise, however, it's taking the phylactery depending on not being found and adding the extra factor of whoever's carrying it not being killed. plus, I might kill them when my body regenerates inside of them (several of my party members are small, the rest are medium)

[Douglas]

I remember someone, I think it was on these forums, relating the story of how he'd used Trap the Soul on every really powerful enemy his party defeated. He then put all the gems used for this in one big pile, made his phylactery another gem just like them, and added it to the pile.

When the first ten gems you smash each release a powerful evil creature who attacks on sight or disappears to begin some evil plots (the lich would, of course, take measures to make sure they do), how many more will you go through in search of the phylactery? Add a few dummy gems to the pile, and the adventurers won't even know if they've found the right one when they smash something that doesn't unleash a horrible evil. Oh, and add some Magic Auras and/or Misdirections at random so all detection spells are unreliable for sorting out the pile. If someone tries dispelling to get rid of them, they'll have an equal chance of dispelling the Trap the Soul.

[Venger]

I remember someone, I think it was on these forums, relating the story of how he'd used Trap the Soul on every really powerful enemy his party defeated. He then put all the gems used for this in one big pile, made his phylactery another gem just like them, and added it to the pile.

When the first ten gems you smash each release a powerful evil creature who attacks on sight or disappears to begin some evil plots (the lich would, of course, take measures to make sure they do), how many more will you go through in search of the phylactery? Add a few dummy gems to the pile, and the adventurers won't even know if they've found the right one when they smash something that doesn't unleash a horrible evil. Oh, and add some Magic Auras and/or Misdirections at random so all detection spells are unreliable for sorting out the pile. If someone tries dispelling to get rid of them, they'll have an equal chance of dispelling the Trap the Soul.

that is a very smart idea. I'm wholly impressed. However, I am working with 6th level spells (chameleon who didn't invest all his resources in getting 9ths) so casting trap the soul will be somewhat problematic.

a trap of trap the soul seems appropriate, but is really expensive (60k and 4800xp) and that's not counting the cost of the gems (don't know how that would work)

I'd thought about making the phylactery the trigger object and putting it on a pedestal like in indiana jones and then when they take it their soul is shunted to the pile, but that would cost a lot of money, and would require me knowing the names of everyone who would want to seek out my phylactery (and if I knew that, why not just scry and die?)

but your idea's very cool to my DM side, even if it doesn't work for my PC side

[blazingshadow]

i suggest that you do something simple for now and hide it in a standard hiding place until you get the resources to protect it better.

a good hiding place for now would be to take a bag of holding, cast antimagic field while holding it (suppressing the bag's magic storage) put the phylactery there then stop the antimagic field (which resumes the bag's magic storage and makes the phylactery unaccesible without an antimagic field or breaking the bag)

the problem is that if someone uses the portable hole into the bag of holding trick with it there is no telling what is going to happen and if you die you eventually need to buy/make a new bag since you will break the bag after you regenerate.

[peacenlove]

Isnt there a spell/item that blocks dimensional anchor?

Indeed, assuming you dont just kill it anyway.

There is an item in bastion of souls 3.0 adventure, called Bracers of Exit, that lets you ignore the first anti teleportation effect each day IIRC

[Clistenes]

Does a lich's phylactery count as an artifact for the purposes of casting Mordenkainen's Disjunction? because, if it's so, it would be ridiculously easy to destroy, and it's suposed to take some effort to do it (throwing it to the Plane of Elemental Fire, or something).

Edit: Upon re-reading the lich entry in the Monster Manual, it seems you can simply crush the phylactery, so I guess Disjunction works fine (but it would be unnecesary).

[Ranting Fool]

Everyone I would like to point your attention to a very important Listfor all evil do-ers

and to point number 5

The artifact which is the source of my power will not be kept on the Mountain of Despair beyond the River of Fire guarded by the Dragons of Eternity. It will be in my safe-deposit box. The same applies to the object which is my one weakness.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I notice you said you're a chameleon that intends to become a lich. You have gotten your DM to okay that right? The clause in the chameleon's description that prevents you from using your chameleon spellcasting to qualify for PrC's and feats might also apply to this. "Other option" is a bit vague.

Cut a deal with a kolyarut for protection. The creature is completely incapable of breaking its word and will do everything in its power to make sure your phylactery stays safe somewhere on mechanus. Just uphold your end of the deal and you're golden.

[Clistenes]

Everyone I would like to point your attention to a very important Listfor all evil do-ers

and to point number 5

Well, yes, but the adventurers who go around killing stuff tend to feel STRONGLY attracted to safes, vaults, strong chests, and everything else that seem like it could contain jewels or gold; and they also usually have spellcasters and rogues good at finding hidden stuff.

[Ranting Fool]

Well, yes, but the adventurers who go around killing stuff tend to feel STRONGLY attracted to safes, vaults, strong chests, and everything else that seem like it could contain jewels or gold; and they also usually have spellcasters and rogues good at finding hidden stuff.

True.

This thread has given me SOOOO many evil ideas there are at the very least two liches around in the campaign the the PC's have met/defeated. But as of yet haven't gotten around to trying to rid the world of them once and for all.


How about a Random Brick In The Wall ok ok I guess the PC's/someone else could just destroy what ever building/dungeon it's part off

The thing is you'd always want to "re-spawn" somewhere with a spell book and gold/items since odds are those pesky Heroes have gone and looted your body and/or your Tower of Evil.

[Tantaburs]

Best idea for a phylactery I saw was to make it a fine gold sphere and cast what ever you need to make it not appear evil. Attach the sphere to the pommel of a +5 Axiomatic Flaming Holy greatsword and donate it to the Church of Pelor. Have them hang it in the crypt as a holy relic.This way you have immediate access to corpses when you return and the church can protect the sword against any evil foes who want you dead which in my experience is a much bigger threat to you then the forces of good.