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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Tantaburs View Post
    Best idea for a phylactery I saw was to make it a fine gold sphere and cast what ever you need to make it not appear evil. Attach the sphere to the pommel of a +5 Axiomatic Flaming Holy greatsword and donate it to the Church of Pelor. Have them hang it in the crypt as a holy relic.This way you have immediate access to corpses when you return and the church can protect the sword against any evil foes who want you dead which in my experience is a much bigger threat to you then the forces of good.
    Wouldn't the Hallowed Ground interfere with your regeneration?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Wouldn't the Hallowed Ground interfere with your regeneration?
    hallowed ground? on a church to the burning hate? what are you talking about
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    hallowed ground? on a church to the burning hate? what are you talking about
    The phylactery would be in a pelorian church. Plenty of Hallow spells being thrown around, for sure.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Step 1: Get a Large or Colossal Box.
    Step 2: Cast Animate Object on it.
    Step 3: Cast Permanency on it.
    Step 4: Equip your Animated Box (henceforth known as Vault) with a Third Eye Conceal and a Ring of Invisibility.
    Step 5: Create a Craft Contingent Ghost Form for Vault.
    Step 6: Have Vault activate it's CC Ghost Form.
    Step 7: Cast Ghost Form on yourself.
    Step 8: Cast Temporal Stasis on Vault, having it voluntarily forgo it's save (and thus immunity to creature only Transmutations).
    Step 9: Dimension Door inside Vault.
    Step 10: Greater Teleport yourself to the center of a randomly chosen star in a randomly chosen galaxy.
    Step 11: Cast Disintegrate to empty Vault of stellar matter.
    Step 12: Cast Mage's Private Sanctum inside Vault.
    Step 13: Make Mage's Private Sanctum Permanent.
    Step 14: Furnish Vault with all the equipment you want on hand for regeneration.
    Step 15: Place a Weirdstone inside Vault and activate it.
    Step 16: Create a Golem ( I would go with Shadesteel) with the Rudimentary Intelligence feat.
    Step 17: Place Golem inside Vault and cast a Permanent Telepathic Bond on Golem.
    Step 18: Create a Permanent Teleportation Circle back to your regular area of operations.
    Step 19: Rest and recover your spells.
    Step 20: Order Golem to deactivate your Weirdstone.
    Step 21: Use your Teleportation Circle.
    Step 22: Over the Telepathic Bond order Golem to reactivate your Weirdstone.

    That should keep your safe from virtually everything. The only way for anyone but you to get inside your Vault is with a Wish (and how precise your destination needs to be is a matter of DM adjudication, "Next to Tippy's phylactery" might be perfectly acceptable) and nothing else is a threat. Whenever you want to visit your Vault you simply order your Golem to deactivate the Weirdstone and teleport it (or Wish yourself in), or die.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Step 1: Get a Large or Colossal Box.
    Step 2: Cast Animate Object on it.
    Step 3: Cast Permanency on it.
    Step 4: Equip your Animated Box (henceforth known as Vault) with a Third Eye Conceal and a Ring of Invisibility.
    Step 5: Create a Craft Contingent Ghost Form for Vault.
    Step 6: Have Vault activate it's CC Ghost Form.
    Step 7: Cast Ghost Form on yourself.
    Step 8: Cast Temporal Stasis on Vault, having it voluntarily forgo it's save (and thus immunity to creature only Transmutations).
    Step 9: Dimension Door inside Vault.
    Step 10: Greater Teleport yourself to the center of a randomly chosen star in a randomly chosen galaxy.
    Step 11: Cast Disintegrate to empty Vault of stellar matter.
    Step 12: Cast Mage's Private Sanctum inside Vault.
    Step 13: Make Mage's Private Sanctum Permanent.
    Step 14: Furnish Vault with all the equipment you want on hand for regeneration.
    Step 15: Place a Weirdstone inside Vault and activate it.
    Step 16: Create a Golem ( I would go with Shadesteel) with the Rudimentary Intelligence feat.
    Step 17: Place Golem inside Vault and cast a Permanent Telepathic Bond on Golem.
    Step 18: Create a Permanent Teleportation Circle back to your regular area of operations.
    Step 19: Rest and recover your spells.
    Step 20: Order Golem to deactivate your Weirdstone.
    Step 21: Use your Teleportation Circle.
    Step 22: Over the Telepathic Bond order Golem to reactivate your Weirdstone.

    That should keep your safe from virtually everything. The only way for anyone but you to get inside your Vault is with a Wish (and how precise your destination needs to be is a matter of DM adjudication, "Next to Tippy's phylactery" might be perfectly acceptable) and nothing else is a threat. Whenever you want to visit your Vault you simply order your Golem to deactivate the Weirdstone and teleport it (or Wish yourself in), or die.
    Well that does seem a rather solid defense. Though since you can be a Lich at Caster Level 11 and you don't HAVE to be a wizard or Cleric then this sort of set up wouldn't be possible (Getting someone to help you requires trust, something I don't see any person/thing going to this much trouble has)
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Put you phalactry inside a golem and then any of the following:

    1) Dump it overboard into the deepest darkest depth of the sea.
    2) feed it to a tarseresque.
    3) Hide it in a tomb with an army of similar golems
    4) Fit it with a spawn money trap and sell it.
    5) Drop it in the trackless wastes of the largest and most desolate desert in the world. Order it to bury itself during the day and relocate itself at night.
    6) Fit it with some kind of random teleport so it moves somewhere else every time its hit.
    7) Cast some kind of permanent levitation spell on it so it drifts serenely around the world in the jetsteam.
    Last edited by Blightedmarsh; 2012-11-14 at 04:46 AM.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Blightedmarsh View Post
    Put you phalactry inside a golem and then any of the following:

    1) Dump it overboard into the deepest darkest depth of the sea.
    2) feed it to a tarseresque.
    3) Hide it in a tomb with an army of similar golems
    4) Fit it with a spawn money trap and sell it.
    5) Drop it in the trackless wastes of the largest and most desolate desert in the world. Order it to bury itself during the day and relocate itself at night.
    6) Fit it with some kind of random teleport so it moves somewhere else every time its hit.
    7) Cast some kind of permanent levitation spell on it so it drifts serenely around the world in the jetsteam.
    Assuming you've just put the phylactery in a hollow in the golemn's body, since it can't actually be part of the golemn, 1 & 2 don't work because they both result in the destruction of your phylactery, kinda the opposite of what you're shooting for. 4 has economic implications which are utterly staggering.

    I like the rest of them though. I might modify 6 so that it triggers when anyone attempts to hit it rather than whenever it's succesfully hit though.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Assuming you've just put the phylactery in a hollow in the golemn's body, since it can't actually be part of the golemn, 1 & 2 don't work because they both result in the destruction of your phylactery, kinda the opposite of what you're shooting for. 4 has economic implications which are utterly staggering.

    I like the rest of them though. I might modify 6 so that it triggers when anyone attempts to hit it rather than whenever it's successfully hit though.
    1) is contingent on your non-biological golem being able to survive the pressure of those kinds of depth; quite feasible as long as their aren't any enclosed voids in it (if its internal mechanisms have pressure holes in them to allow them to take in sea water). Some kind of abyssal ooze might be a more likely candidate.

    4) That's part of the idea. This will end up being one of the most valuable, well guarded and fought over objects in the world as well as destabilizing the world economy. Not only does this protect it but it also ferments a conflicts for you to manipulate and exploit as well as acting as a distraction and a ready supply of corpses for your world conquering army.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Unfortunately, I don't think the crushing damage from deep water cares about whether there are any hollows in the structure like RL physics does. Let me check and I'll edit in a confirmation/denial.

    Edit: seems I was wrong. There's a fort save to negate the damage and objects and con - creatures don't have to make fort saves unless the effect specifically says it effects objects. Oddly, this means that even if the golemn was filled with little air pockets he'd be fine. Silly RAW.

    Item number 2 on that list is still a terribad idea though.
    Last edited by Kelb_Panthera; 2012-11-14 at 05:43 AM.
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    I'm not the biggest spell caster, so this may be incredibly flawed. All the same, I was inspired by the chap stick idea.
    It has been said that you are not permitted to make a phylactery out of an item that is magic, nor make that phylactery magic.
    What if you made a box, as is mentioned before, and get an artificer to craft some sort of spell trigger for some crazy spell. I was thinking making one lose interest in the box.
    Then you put the box somewhere -- anywhere -- and you don't have to worry about that box being disturbed.

    Just my 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Khaelic View Post
    I'm not the biggest spell caster, so this may be incredibly flawed. All the same, I was inspired by the chap stick idea.
    It has been said that you are not permitted to make a phylactery out of an item that is magic, nor make that phylactery magic.
    What if you made a box, as is mentioned before, and get an artificer to craft some sort of spell trigger for some crazy spell. I was thinking making one lose interest in the box.
    Then you put the box somewhere -- anywhere -- and you don't have to worry about that box being disturbed.

    Just my 2 cents.
    there is a spell that does just that though I'm not sure artificers can emulate it

    aversion would also work, but the save is a little low, and it too is mind=affecting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Death View Post
    If you ever get to 21st level, there is the spell "Aumvor's Fragmented Phylactery" in Champions of Ruin. Every time you cast it it makes your Casting Stat Modifier more Phylacteries, and it specifically says it can be re-cast, so you can have the entire world as your Phylactery.
    Most people would agree with me on this, but that spell in the hands of a Lich player is effectively a "Nope, I don't die. Suck it". So if you're not allowed to play Lich's at your table, this spell is generally the "why" to that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strormer View Post
    Just as a side note: I always ignored the rule that a lich can make only one phylactery. I had the rules be that if the phylactery was destroyed, the lich was destroyed, but I also made phylacteries tough as hell to destroy, a la the one ring. Just how I played it though.

    Incidentally, just because no one has mentioned it in this particular phylactery thread, you could make your phylactery a needle, in an egg, in a duck, in a hare, in a chest, on a distant island in the middle of an ocean.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Venger View Post
    there is a spell that does just that though I'm not sure artificers can emulate it

    aversion would also work, but the save is a little low, and it too is mind=affecting.
    If it is a spell, the Artificer can make it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    Wouldn't the Hallowed Ground interfere with your regeneration?
    No. It prevents new undead from being created, but undead can enter the effect. You'll take a -4 to your turning resistance, but chances are that even if one of the good guys happens to wander down into whatever vault your sword is in, they will probably not be close enough to your level to stand a chance against your powers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    A Tiny coin would be between 1 and 2 feet across, making it roughly the size of a dinner plate. That would stand out, I think.
    it doestn' have to be that large, one of the specific examples it gives is a ring.
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    I realize that this is a high-level option, but what about Genesis? After reading the spell several times, it seems that this should work...:

    Create a demi-plane with the following: the middle...say...60ft with the Positive-dominant trait (using Golden Ladybug's idea of a planar-trait resistant box, probably around 10-15 feet to a side, so you can regenerate comfortably, and have your extra spell books, components, etc. around.) The rest of the plane should have the Negative-dominant trait, (help dissuade enemies from being there, and 1d6 fast healing for you...)
    Next, give the plane the time trait of 10 days = 1 round on Material (this is why you need the arcane/divine version, the psionic version has that annoying clause about time...)

    If I'm reading it right, this should be possible, and it gives you the benefit of returning to action approximately 1 round of being "killed."

    You may want to cast the spell a few extra times to make the plane larger...keeps enemies away longer...(besides, what's 5000exp/cast at high levels? )
    Last edited by Rijan_Sai; 2012-11-14 at 03:50 PM.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    I just realized there may be a huge problem with the OP's idea of a chameleon lich. Becoming a lich will disqualify you for able learner which, in turn, will disqualify you for chameleon.

    This could be a huge problem if the DM rules it that way. More than before, I strongly suggest asking your DM if this is kosher.
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelb_Panthera View Post
    I just realized there may be a huge problem with the OP's idea of a chameleon lich. Becoming a lich will disqualify you for able learner which, in turn, will disqualify you for chameleon.

    This could be a huge problem if the DM rules it that way. More than before, I strongly suggest asking your DM if this is kosher.
    This is debatable, because Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane both have contradicting statements to the fact and I haven't seen anything to point an absolute stance on the matter that supersedes either of these.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanist View Post
    This is debatable, because Complete Warrior and Complete Arcane both have contradicting statements to the fact and I haven't seen anything to point an absolute stance on the matter that supersedes either of these.
    Those contradicting statements make the exact nature of the RAW fuzzy at best, in this case.

    That's why I reiterated my suggestion of discussing it with the DM.

    I always advise discussing things with the DM on issues of fuzzy RAW or other highly debatable material, such as alignment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThiagoMartell View Post
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Hmm, I remember reading about a phylactery hiding technique somewhere, though I can't quite remember the source. It goes a little something like this:

    1: Take a 1st level sorcerer as an apprentice.
    2: Train sorcerer to level 2
    3: Kill the sorcerer
    4: Carve the phylactery in the inside of the sorcerer's skull
    5: Resurrect sorcerer
    6: Continue grooming your sorcerer to be your second in command.

    Now you end up with a mobile, self preserving phylactery with potent spell casting abilities. Also, doing so also ensures that your apprentice won't pull a starscream on you, since you can't be killed without the sorceror suffering a slow, painful death 1d10 days later.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    First, make sure you have a way to survive in an airless environment, and a way to cast spells without sound. Silent Spell at least, and you may want a greater metamagic rod of it.

    Create a plane via Genesis. The plane should be airless; other than that, add whatever useful planar traits you can get away with. Then set up your phylactery-crafting workshop in there, and plaster the plane with forbiddance.

    Craft the phylactery there in secret; under no circumstances allow any hands but yours to touch it.

    Add plenty of protective spells around your phylactery, and include whatever equipment you'd need handy upon resurrection (basic equipment for spellcasting, at the very least). Also trap the place to taste.



    A demiplane wholly covered by forbiddance cannot be entered by any means short of wish. Forbiddance only blocks travel to its interior, not leaving, so you're fine getting out after regenerating. The phylactery is near-impossible to locate; nobody can discern location it, as no one has touched it, and lesser spells can be warded against. In the event that someone does wish themselves into your plane, they will be going in blind (hopefully. Are there any other divinations I should be taking into account?). They will then find themselves unable to breathe, unable to cast spells with verbal components, and will be subject to your traps and all the planar traits of your demiplane.

    This is still imperfect; someone with sufficient resources and preparedness could still wish in, defeat your defenses, and destroy your phylactery. But in nearly any circumstance there are easier ways to get rid of you than destroying you outright, and it's a better investiture of effort to try to defend against these.


    On a related note: I've often given this matter thought (you might be able to tell!) but one thing I can't figure out how to properly defend against is imprisonment. While we're protecting our liches from permanent death, is there any way we can cover them against this 9th-level spell?

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by papr_weezl8472 View Post


    On a related note: I've often given this matter thought (you might be able to tell!) but one thing I can't figure out how to properly defend against is imprisonment. While we're protecting our liches from permanent death, is there any way we can cover them against this 9th-level spell?
    All that is needed to reverse Imprisonment is a Freedom spell.

    You have 1) a Familiar, and if your DM is nice, 2) a cohort from Leadership or Undead Leadership. Either one might be able to free you, given the right magic item and/or class for the cohort (ya know, a scroll of Freedom or another sort of magical item which casts the spell). You could also get a Contingency plus Greater Dispel Magic to counter the spell.

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    I believe there is a spell (from Libris Mortis, I think) that makes you explode to deal damage to enemies, while simultaneously making it impossible to resurrect you.

    Get a contingent casting of that spell, that triggers when someone casts Imprisonment on you. You explode, regenerate at your Phylactery and also become immune to unwanted attempts to bring you back to life

    Also, after checking the traits of a Positive Dominant Plane:

    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.
    Undead don't need to make Fort saves unless the effect specifically calls out Undead or Objects needing to make the save. So, you can hang around PDPs all you like with no problem. Hell, build your fortress on one. Just another hassle for the (probably) fleshy good guys to push through before they can even attempt to threaten you. And its so delightfully ironic.

    Quote Originally Posted by InsiderTrading View Post
    1: Take a 1st level Elan sorcerer as an apprentice.
    2: Train sorcerer to level 2
    3: Kill the sorcerer
    4: Carve the phylactery in the inside of the sorcerer's skull
    5: Resurrect sorcerer
    6: Continue grooming your sorcerer to be your second in command.
    FTFY

    You don't want your Phylactery holder dying on you, do you? How would it be able to use its own spells to keep you safe if it just keels over and dies from old age?

    That said, I wouldn't be so naive as to entrust the secret of my immortality to anyone other than me, and even then...


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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    depending on whether you disintegrate (or something of the like) when you die, you could just make it your rib bone and inscribe it with invisible ink. perhaps enchant it to prevent it form giving off any magical auras?

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    1) Take a few levels of Fleshwarper (Or better yet, have a Fleshwarper on staff)
    2) prepare for Lichdom, Design your phylactery to be a flexible spine.
    3) Kidnap princess McGuffin and perform a quick surgery on her.
    4) Make sure she is healed completely and fully afterwards.
    5) wait for the PCs to come in and save the day, and finalize your transformation to lichdom by letting them take that pesky mortality from you.

    While their at it, why don't they take the princess and keep her safe too...


    Why expend your own resources keeping a phylactery safe when you can let an entire nation do it for you. It's not like they can take out the poor girl's spine on a whim, and good luck finding a good flesh warper to take it out again safely. For extra credit, make it an Elven princess so you have a good long amount of time to find a new 'suitor' for your next phylactery, or ask your local friendly DM if the host dying counts as the Phylactery being destroyed. If not, then, Hey! Whose going to defile the grave of the long loved Queen Lijji with out a damn good reason.

    Plus if you die, you'd raise up again in a royal graveyard. Go Team Evil!

  25. - Top - End - #85
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

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    Oct 2012

    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Could you find some really.

    ..really..

    ..expensive water, fashion it into a solid, possibly very cold, cube...

    ..do the magic stuff..

    ..and then throw it into the sea?

    The molecules that constitute your phylactery will now spread out into the water of the world.

    Hang on. It the item/object the key thing? I.E does it have to be a 'noun', which seemingly could comprise of different stuff, such as metal, stone and wood.

    If can be an 'object', which could comprise of multiple materials, why not make the infrastructure - roads/aqueducts/plumbing - of your nation your phylactery?

    I'm a little confuzzled to how a combination of one set of materials is being considered to be a single 'whole' while a combination of the another set of materials - on a larger scale - isn't be considered a single whole.

    -.o Bugger it. I cast it on the King's bladder stone.

    Then I cast Enlarge (Bladder Stone).

    Because.

    Last edited by O.L.Scudmungus; 2012-11-25 at 02:44 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #86
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    dantiesilva's Avatar

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    Apr 2012
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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Go to hell steal the devils spellbook, get out of hell polymorph your soul into that book with all its texts and everything the same as before. Go back to hell act like you are trying to kill him and try reading from " the fake " spellbook, he attacks you drop it and teleport out. Lets see someone go through all the nine hells to get it. And on the plus side you have all the magic spells he has now.

  27. - Top - End - #87
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Amidus Drexel's Avatar

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    Default Re: lich phylactery

    Quote Originally Posted by O.L.Scudmungus View Post
    Hang on. It the item/object the key thing? I.E does it have to be a 'noun', which seemingly could comprise of different stuff, such as metal, stone and wood.

    If can be an 'object', which could comprise of multiple materials, why not make the infrastructure - roads/aqueducts/plumbing - of your nation your phylactery?

    I'm a little confuzzled to how a combination of one set of materials is being considered to be a single 'whole' while a combination of the another set of materials - on a larger scale - isn't be considered a single whole.
    Well, it has to be Tiny. A city's infrastructure is probably a bit bigger than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clistenes View Post
    The phylactery would be in a pelorian church. Plenty of Hallow spells being thrown around, for sure.
    Venger's talking about the real Pelor. A hallow spell would be a bit out of place in his church.
    Last edited by Amidus Drexel; 2012-11-25 at 04:53 PM.
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    To all my players and DMs - I'll get to my games when I can, but it's going to be sparse until next week. Sorry.

    My full title is as follows:
    Amidus "AmiDrex", His Drexcellency "Speedasaurus Drex" Drexel.
    Feel free to truncate or otherwise shorten this as you see fit.

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  28. - Top - End - #88
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Mar 2012

    Default Re: lich phylactery

    In a homebrew game a friend and I did, the BBEG was a powerful lich, but his ritual was interrupted, and his soul was bound in the paladin's sword.

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