American Mythology Setting (Help is welcome!)

[Zap Dynamic]

Roll a d6? That's manipulative, cruel, liable to cause panic in the players... I have no problem with this.

I love it! Keeping the players guessing is a wonderful thing.

Where's Firstport? Did we ever figure that out? Also, I noticed we have four other unmarked cities, not counting one which is reserved for Firstport, wherever that ends up, and one of the ones under San Bernardo. Are those for Zap to figure out?

Great map, Ninja! I like it!

Firstport is the city to the West, roughly on a level with Mahigan. I figured the other four cities were just for us to develop when we felt like it.

A southern city would be perfect. One thing I'm noticing, though: we had talked about the North being the ones who were the defeated agrarian society, and the South being the triumphant industrial place. It that's the case, do we want the most technologically advanced steam city in the world to be in that agrarian, northern territory? It seems like we have to draw the North/South line at the Norton, C.E., so should we move Firstport down south? That would place the Old World continent further south, which is fine with me. It's actually kind of interesting to think of the Imperials as being darker-skinned.

We actually haven't covered that area of American mythology yet, although Norton, C.E. actually fits the bill in terms of relative proximity to the area. Also, it feels like we need another city, farther south, on one of the two peninsulas near the mouth of the gulf. If we end up implementing that, that would be the perfect place for southeast US myths and stuff.

We haven't worked on several of the cultures, in part because we haven't been working on the project for all that long, and also because we haven't had a whole lot of really cool info. I'll definitely check out your stuff, though if the aforementioned North/South switch is what we settle on, then the SE Natives will basically be extinct, with only their memories remaining.

Here's a thought:
Mountain Tribes have protected their land by agreeing to let the Empire establish three trade routes through it. They are known as dangerous passes, where Mountain Rebels can descend with death and plunder. The region itself has a high instance of illegal mining, though the Mountain Natives are unable to stop them. Makes for an interesting twist on the reservation story.

Whaddaya think?

[Landis963]

I love it! Keeping the players guessing is a wonderful thing.

My idea was that, since this is explicitly a mental construct of an insane psychic, there would be no reason to keep things consistent from visit to visit. Glad you all like it.

Great map, Ninja! I like it!

Firstport is the city to the West, roughly on a level with Mahigan. I figured the other four cities were just for us to develop when we felt like it.

It's kind of... isolated from the other cities, isn't it? I mean, it'd be a nice twist on real life if Firstport got a lot of influence from San Bernardo instead of , y'know, a Philadelphia analogue (on that note, are we using Amicafrater, or whatever name it's going by? The discussion on it kind of petered out before we decided anything), but given that the treacherous mountain passes are between them and the empire proper, there wouldn't be a lot of technological advancement. Which might in fact be OK, it just wouldn't be quite the cultural hub that we kind of expect a New York expy to be.

A southern city would be perfect. One thing I'm noticing, though: we had talked about the North being the ones who were the defeated agrarian society, and the South being the triumphant industrial place.

I must have missed that discussion, but it makes for a very nice twist on RL history.

It that's the case, do we want the most technologically advanced steam city in the world to be in that agrarian, northern territory? It seems like we have to draw the North/South line at the Norton, C.E., so should we move Firstport down south? That would place the Old World continent further south, which is fine with me. It's actually kind of interesting to think of the Imperials as being darker-skinned.

Actually, we could move it closer to the mouth of the gulf, and then use the SE stuff that Fiori was talking about earlier as a basis for fleshing it out. I actually like that Imperials being dark-skinned idea a lot.

We haven't worked on several of the cultures, in part because we haven't been working on the project for all that long, and also because we haven't had a whole lot of really cool info. I'll definitely check out your stuff, though if the aforementioned North/South switch is what we settle on, then the SE Natives will basically be extinct, with only their memories remaining.

I think I have an idea about where they went. Three words: Death by flood.

Here's a thought:
Mountain Tribes have protected their land by agreeing to let the Empire establish three trade routes through it. They are known as dangerous passes, where Mountain Rebels can descend with death and plunder. The region itself has a high instance of illegal mining, though the Mountain Natives are unable to stop them. Makes for an interesting twist on the reservation story.

Whaddaya think?

First, I think that's a great idea, especially since their land wouldn't be wanted for settlements, so much as it would be wanted for mining. That would lead to corporate interests from, say, Firstport trying to widen the pass so that they can gain access to a diggable spot for ore.

Second, I think the server derped and gave you a new post when you wanted an edit.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It actually doesn't really matter what it was inspired by, it's a good idea either way. I notice on the map you have San Bernardo floating over two city markers. Maybe a pet project of Tokarev's is a grand archway or bridge connecting the two, as a sort of vanity project. Or maybe a similar bridge was destroyed in the earthquake, and Tokarev is making it self-repairing, or something.

Exactly what I was getting at. Maybe he'll call it Steamgate Bridge. Since the Goldengate bridge was built in 1933 (thank you Wiki), I think Tokarev should be building an entirely new bridge, rather than fix an old one. With SCIENCE!

Firstport is the city to the West, roughly on a level with Mahigan. I figured the other four cities were just for us to develop when we felt like it.

A southern city would be perfect. One thing I'm noticing, though: we had talked about the North being the ones who were the defeated agrarian society, and the South being the triumphant industrial place. It that's the case, do we want the most technologically advanced steam city in the world to be in that agrarian, northern territory? It seems like we have to draw the North/South line at the Norton, C.E., so should we move Firstport down south? That would place the Old World continent further south, which is fine with me. It's actually kind of interesting to think of the Imperials as being darker-skinned.

I put down the blank stars just for the sake of filling in an empty map. I can edit/delete/rename them as needed since everything's on layers instead of it all being one picture. I actually forgot Firstport. Oops. But since you want it moved south of CE, the star level with Mahigan could just be some other city. Like Richmond. Actually, that might work, especially if during the Civil War we want to keep the capitols near each other like in RL.

I can get down with making the Imperials dark-skinned. It certainly shakes things up. Are the Natives going to be lighter though?

Here's a thought:
Mountain Tribes have protected their land by agreeing to let the Empire establish three trade routes through it. They are known as dangerous passes, where Mountain Rebels can descend with death and plunder. The region itself has a high instance of illegal mining, though the Mountain Natives are unable to stop them. Makes for an interesting twist on the reservation story.

Awesome. Actually, I seem to remember hearing in a history class that some Indian tribes (I swear Apache, but don't quote me) did just this. They told white settlers that if they stuck to the road (literally in many cases) then there would be no trouble...from them. Lots of good plot from this idea.

It's kind of... isolated from the other cities, isn't it? I mean, it'd be a nice twist on real life if Firstport got a lot of influence from San Bernardo instead of , y'know, a Philadelphia analogue (on that note, are we using Amicafrater, or whatever name it's going by? The discussion on it kind of petered out before we decided anything), but given that the treacherous mountain passes are between them and the empire proper, there wouldn't be a lot of technological advancement. Which might in fact be OK, it just wouldn't be quite the cultural hub that we kind of expect a New York expy to be.

Moving Firstport south of CE would probably alleviate it's isolation. Again, I just put down stars to fill up the map.

Actually, we could move it closer to the mouth of the gulf, and then use the SE stuff that Fiori was talking about earlier as a basis for fleshing it out. I actually like that Imperials being dark-skinned idea a lot.
... I think I have an idea about where they went. Three words: Death by flood.

Why do I wanna have Firstport built atop the cursed remnants of the Roanoak Settlement now?

[Zap Dynamic]

ARGH! I said West when I meant East! Firstport is EAST of Mahigan. I've been mixing that up too much lately... Also, I "Firstport" was our name for the Philly/New York hybrid?

Just to clarify, when I was "darker-skinned," I'm still envisioning a fair bit of a spectrum. Certainly, I think having black Imperials is a cool idea, but I'm picturing everything from "Mediterranean Tanned" to "Middle-Eastern" to "Darkest Africa" brand skin tones.

Building Firstport atop the Roanoke Settlement would be AWESOME. A perfect excuse to invoke the "ruined city-beneath-a-city" trope.

[Landis963]

Exactly what I was getting at. Maybe he'll call it Steamgate Bridge. Since the Goldengate bridge was built in 1933 (thank you Wiki), I think Tokarev should be building an entirely new bridge, rather than fix an old one. With SCIENCE!

I still think it should be made self-repairing in some way, or at least that's what Tokarev should be going for.

I put down the blank stars just for the sake of filling in an empty map. I can edit/delete/rename them as needed since everything's on layers instead of it all being one picture. I actually forgot Firstport. Oops. But since you want it moved south of CE, the star level with Mahigan could just be some other city. Like Richmond. Actually, that might work, especially if during the Civil War we want to keep the capitols near each other like in RL.

Richmond might work over there by San Bernardo, actually.

I can get down with making the Imperials dark-skinned. It certainly shakes things up. Are the Natives going to be lighter though?

I'll leave that to Zap, not least because this is a rhetorical minefield waiting to happen.

Awesome. Actually, I seem to remember hearing in a history class that some Indian tribes (I swear Apache, but don't quote me) did just this. They told white settlers that if they stuck to the road (literally in many cases) then there would be no trouble...from them. Lots of good plot from this idea.

Ooh, yeah, smuggling ore out of the area, random encounters from either wild animals (if the PCs complied) or from tribesmen (if they didn't), escorting a wagon train...

Moving Firstport south of CE would probably alleviate it's isolation. Again, I just put down stars to fill up the map.

Apparently, as per Zap, Firstport is on the other side of the continent, at that small promontory a little bit below Mahigan's level.

Why do I wanna have Firstport built atop the cursed remnants of the Roanoak Settlement now?

Ooh, there's a nice idea.

ARGH! I said West when I meant East! Firstport is EAST of Mahigan. I've been mixing that up too much lately... Also, I "Firstport" was our name for the Philly/New York hybrid?

Good thing you mentioned that. We were all set to have Firstport having very close relations with San Bernardo. Also, Firstport was a Philly/New York hybrid, now that I think about it.

Just to clarify, when I was "darker-skinned," I'm still envisioning a fair bit of a spectrum. Certainly, I think having black Imperials is a cool idea, but I'm picturing everything from "Mediterranean Tanned" to "Middle-Eastern" to "Darkest Africa" brand skin tones.

Wasn't the Old World filled with vampires? I'm liking the idea of dark-skinned vamps coming into Coterois, and finding that, just like home, they blend in almost perfectly.

Building Firstport atop the Roanoke Settlement would be AWESOME. A perfect excuse to invoke the "ruined city-beneath-a-city" trope.

Would the inhabitants know about the cursed ruins right under their feet?

[Zap Dynamic]

On Skin Color: I'm always really careful when I invoke actual human races in campaign settings. I think the Natives should be just like normal Native Americans, and maybe the Old World should be more unified than in life. Either that, or there's no clear north-south dominance over there (as was the case with Europe and Africa), so all the various ethnicities get along just fine.

On Firstport: Now that I think about it, I like the idea of Firstport remaining at its current location, East and a little South of Mahigan. With the current configuration of states (which I have no intention to change... thanks Ninja!) "The Industrial South" seems a little paltry, with the three states to its name. It makes for an interesting "we're THAT good" story, but I'd rather it be a little bigger. With that in mind, let's assume that the two states above Norton (the small one directly above and the one containing Firstport) also declared for the South. That way, Firstport is right on the front lines of the war effort, which would give Dr. Steam an even bigger reason to churn out weapons and technology for the war effort.

I think we can still work out the Roanoke thing without relocating the city, though. In my mind, the ruins underneath the city would be kind of like the public perception of the sewers in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Sure, everyone knows the ruins are there, but they don't know that there are levels upon levels, huge vaulted ceilings, and sentient beings down there. As far as the public is concerned, there are a few dinky sites under the city that are interesting to archaeologists and kids trying to scare each other, but not anyone else.

Other Updates: I feel like we've got a good bit of information on these topics, and we might be ready to move on. I'm at work right now, otherwise I'd collate what we've done in the past page or so, look at the rest of what we have, and jot down a list of what needs work next. Expect that sometime tonight, though it may not be until late.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I still think it should be made self-repairing in some way, or at least that's what Tokarev should be going for.

The whole structure of the Bridge could be constantly built and rebuilt by a swarm of steam-powered robot-bees. Maintenance is constantly kept up around the clock.

Richmond might work over there by San Bernardo, actually.

Huh. Why do you say that, exactly? In RL, DC and Richmond were very close together. I feel if we lose that, then some of the tension of the Civil War (also need a name for this war) might be lost.

On Firstport: Now that I think about it, I like the idea of Firstport remaining at its current location, East and a little South of Mahigan. With the current configuration of states (which I have no intention to change... thanks Ninja!) "The Industrial South" seems a little paltry, with the three states to its name. It makes for an interesting "we're THAT good" story, but I'd rather it be a little bigger. With that in mind, let's assume that the two states above Norton (the small one directly above and the one containing Firstport) also declared for the South. That way, Firstport is right on the front lines of the war effort, which would give Dr. Steam an even bigger reason to churn out weapons and technology for the war effort.

I like this idea. Then Tokarev will be in a situation like The Siege of Petersburg during the civil war. We can also through in some Stalingrad for good measure. I've updated the earlier map on this page to show Firstport where I think we've decided on putting it.

[Zap Dynamic]

Just some things I noticed:

I like the name "Achalka" better than "Alchalka."

Let's get rid of those eastern islands before I get a hankering to start developing an island culture. I think it's okay to keep the smaller islands directly south of Coterois' swamp state, but everything East of that should go.

I like the image of steam-bees. Good work.

It hadn't occurred to me at the time, but Stalingrad seems an obvious addition to the story. A big city on the front lines of a big war+russian inventor. It's BRILLIANT!

[Landis963]

The whole structure of the Bridge could be constantly built and rebuilt by a swarm of steam-powered robot-bees. Maintenance is constantly kept up around the clock.

The "hives" of the robot workers are partially underwater, so they can draw from the ocean between the two halves of the city.

Huh. Why do you say that, exactly? In RL, DC and Richmond were very close together. I feel if we lose that, then some of the tension of the Civil War (also need a name for this war) might be lost.

Because if Richmond is a strait away from one of the weaker cities of the Empire, that might provide an impetus to try a sneak attack from there, to take the opposing capitol and force a surrender. I will admit that I'm not entirely clear on where exactly the battle lines would be drawn.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Just some things I noticed:

I like the name "Achalka" better than "Alchalka."

Let's get rid of those eastern islands before I get a hankering to start developing an island culture. I think it's okay to keep the smaller islands directly south of Coterois' swamp state, but everything East of that should go.

Spoiler

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I kept the largest of the islands east of the Coterois Divide [tm] because I thought if we ever needed a Cuba stand-in, it's already similarly shaped. In RL, Cuba was 1) A Spanish colony we had a lot of sympathy towards when it was fighting for independence, 2) A fondly thought of semi-colony from who we stole all their rights of sovereignty, and 3) A somewhat bitter enemy due to mutual betrayals of trust and affection. In essence, Cuba was USA's little kid brother. Picked on, but still liked up until the kid got sick of the torment.

Because if Richmond is a strait away from one of the weaker cities of the Empire, that might provide an impetus to try a sneak attack from there, to take the opposing capitol and force a surrender. I will admit that I'm not entirely clear on where exactly the battle lines would be drawn.

To be fair, that's exactly what happened in RL. The entire Eastern Theatre was basically, “Hey, we're spitting distance from those chumps over in DC/Richmond. Let's get 'em!” Then the gigantic well-armed militaries would stumble into one another and wait to fire their super-lethal rifles and repeaters until they were in literal spitting distance of each other.

I'm also unclear to the actual battle lines since we haven't developed the Imperial Civil War all too much yet.

[Zap Dynamic]

So I updated the OP to include the cities of Platarena and New Bernardo, and also added a blurb for the Place of the Gods (and just noticed the typo "palace" on the map).

At this point, I think there are a few things we could do:

• Develop History: We could put stuff on a timeline of, say, the past 100 years. That's probably about how old the Empire is.
• Develop the Natives: Our foundation is hewn from granite and polished marble, but our structure is only a lean-to thus far.
• Stat up some Monsters: 1-2-3NOT IT!
• Plot Hooks: Have you guys seen the Nation of the Dead project? I won't make a reanimation joke, but it's back after almost a year of downtime. Impressive stuff. I like the inclusion of plot hooks.

I feel like there's more to work on, but I've stretched myself a little thin, and it is Monday. Gumption is at a temporary low, but gimme a few days and we'll have this baby screaming again.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

So I updated the OP to include the cities of Platarena and New Bernardo, and also added a blurb for the Place of the Gods (and just noticed the typo "palace" on the map).

That was a typo? I thought it was always Palace of the Gods. Like, the Boradoans were guarding some sort of giant structure left behind by the aliens that they call a Palace. Well...shucks.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'd imagine there is a palace at the site, but there's a lot more than that, too. Even then, it's not unrealistic to refer to an entire complex of buildings by the central, prominent building there. "Palace of the Old Gods" it is!

[Omeganaut]

Your victorious power is still rather small. As I see it, there are two ways in which to fix the problem. First of all, make the states west of the mountains anti-slavery and pro-union. The west historical remained true to the Union, and I say that should be reflected. Secondly, it was the industrialized cities and the small independent farmers that were for freedom because it did not hurt their economy. With the new dynamic, farmers will still want to be rid of the slavery, so much of the more rural areas will probably turn out for abolition.

A few other notes: Tree Island should have some of Independence in it. By that I mean it should be an important jumping-off point for the analogue of the Oregon Trail through the native-infested mountains. Another thing, I'd let the more western areas be territories instead of states. Maybe two or three west of the mountains, and have another two or three large areas east of the mountains that are not yet states. Statehood did not fully extend to all the continental states until around 1900, and thought we were pitching most of this setting earlier than that.

[Zap Dynamic]

Your victorious power is still rather small. As I see it, there are two ways in which to fix the problem. First of all, make the states west of the mountains anti-slavery and pro-union. The west historical remained true to the Union, and I say that should be reflected. Secondly, it was the industrialized cities and the small independent farmers that were for freedom because it did not hurt their economy. With the new dynamic, farmers will still want to be rid of the slavery, so much of the more rural areas will probably turn out for abolition.

A few other notes: Tree Island should have some of Independence in it. By that I mean it should be an important jumping-off point for the analogue of the Oregon Trail through the native-infested mountains. Another thing, I'd let the more western areas be territories instead of states. Maybe two or three west of the mountains, and have another two or three large areas east of the mountains that are not yet states. Statehood did not fully extend to all the continental states until around 1900, and thought we were pitching most of this setting earlier than that.

Independence is a good element to add, but I wonder if it shouldn't be a little bit further East. Maybe even in Mahigan? My reasoning is that if someone wants to go through the mountains, then Tree Island is where you'll have to go first. However, if someone wants to get anywhere in the West, you're most likely to start out in Mahigan. Thoughts?

As far as the war is concerned, I was thinking much the same thing. To visualize what I'm thinking, let's consider the Western mountains to be a dividing line. Take everything East of that (the bulk of the Empire), and divide it in half. In my mind, the only places that are states are in that Easternmost section, with everything else being larger territories at this point.

I imagined that the territories wouldn't concern themselves much. I'm not student of the Civil War, but it seems that past a certain point (Missouri? Eastern Kansas?) most people were concerned with more immediate things than a war going on back in the States. Is this accurate? Even if it's not, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the folks that lived between the States and the Mountains were too concerned with the guerrilla Native attacks that we mentioned earlier to contribute much of their own forces to the cause. Likewise, there is no shortage of hooks etc. that would keep a person in the far West from coming back to fight in the war--unless it was something they were truly passionate about.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

As far as the war is concerned, I was thinking much the same thing. To visualize what I'm thinking, let's consider the Western mountains to be a dividing line. Take everything East of that (the bulk of the Empire), and divide it in half. In my mind, the only places that are states are in that Easternmost section, with everything else being larger territories at this point.

I'd say Mahigan is just about on the edge of the 'States' proper. Mahigan's state is the westernmost state save for Coterois' and San Bernardo (remember, RL California was made a state early in 1849 due to it's strategic location as well as resources, including gold). The states around that second Northern Gulf (the westernish one) are considered new states, but everything west of that is still territories. See example:

Example (probably should have used better colors, but oh well.)

Spoiler

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I imagined that the territories wouldn't concern themselves much. I'm not student of the Civil War, but it seems that past a certain point (Missouri? Eastern Kansas?) most people were concerned with more immediate things than a war going on back in the States. Is this accurate? Even if it's not, it wouldn't be a stretch to say that the folks that lived between the States and the Mountains were too concerned with the guerrilla Native attacks that we mentioned earlier to contribute much of their own forces to the cause. Likewise, there is no shortage of hooks etc. that would keep a person in the far West from coming back to fight in the war--unless it was something they were truly passionate about.

For wonderful information on the war, I'd suggest Ken Burn's The Civil War. It's easily the best around if you've got a spare 15+ hours. From what little I know, the Western Territories in RL actually had a lot of battles during the war, just nowhere near the scale of the Eastern Theatre. Miners in California would break up their gold claims into sides for and against the Union and fight it out. The last battle of the war technically occurred in Texas, with a Confederate victory of all things. So, I'd say a similar thing would happen in this world. Basically, small-scale skirmishes would break out here and there. Sometimes in towns, sometimes in the field where a few hundred soldiers on some sort of long patrol would crash into each other. Regardless, the scale is local, nothing like the major battles taking place elsewhere.

For hooks, each side is courting a Native tribe to ally. One side is hiring like mad for guerrilla operations in the wilderness. One or both sides have accidentally awakened a slumbering monster and they must put aside their differences to defeat it. A town wants nothing to do with the war, but that means soldiers have no problem with raiding their food stores to deny them to the enemy.

[Omeganaut]

In the real civil war, there were smaller skirmishes in the west, mostly in New Mexico. There was also a small campaign against the Sioux in the Minnesota and the Dakotas who were riled up by Confederate agents and the usual complaints about greedy whites. Other than that, almost all the soldiers stationed out west went east to fight in the war. In fact, most of the generals on both sides involved in Pickett's Charge at Gettysburg served together in California right before the war. That leads me to add that a big part of the mythos of the Civil war is that friends and family often fought each other due to their other loyalties and ideologies. It was probably the last truly personal war where each side knew the other well.

As for Mahigan being the starting point, if settlers would want to go there, most would continue by boat to the westernmost point of that gulf (in fact, maybe you need a town there as well, it could be a boom town with rumors of gold in the hills guarded by outlaws and monsters, and ghost towns destroyed by mysterious circumstances). They could also set off from that last town further north, which makes more sense if they were to be coming from those more northern cities.

[Landis963]

Looking at the map, it strikes me that the only reasons the mountains would be attempted at all would be a) to find gold/ores/what have you or b) to avoid the state where Coterois is. Or maybe c) it's shorter. Otherwise, they can just go directly to the south of the mountain range and slip into the more western territories that way. Of course, this would suit the mountain natives just fine, as it means fewer people trying to get into the west via their territory.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Looking at the map, it strikes me that the only reasons the mountains would be attempted at all would be a) to find gold/ores/what have you or b) to avoid the state where Coterois is. Or maybe c) it's shorter. Otherwise, they can just go directly to the south of the mountain range and slip into the more western territories that way. Of course, this would suit the mountain natives just fine, as it means fewer people trying to get into the west via their territory.

Hmmm. Well, the area below the mountains (judging by the geographic map) is basically a set of rivers and the southern desert. Seems like there'd be little reason to go through the mountains rather than around them through this means. Perhaps it really is faster, just not for anyone heading to an area directly on the western side of the range. Travel times being what they are in a society just entering an industrial era (it takes a while to lay down railroad tracks, no matter how easily Dr Steam may have invented the train), traveling to the northwestern territories could be a matter of months if one goes around the mountains, but only weeks if they brave the mountain passes.

[Landis963]

Hmmm. Well, the area below the mountains (judging by the geographic map) is basically a set of rivers and the southern desert. Seems like there'd be little reason to go through the mountains rather than around them through this means. Perhaps it really is faster, just not for anyone heading to an area directly on the western side of the range. Travel times being what they are in a society just entering an industrial era (it takes a while to lay down railroad tracks, no matter how easily Dr Steam may have invented the train), traveling to the northwestern territories could be a matter of months if one goes around the mountains, but only weeks if they brave the mountain passes.

That makes sense. Slower-but-safer (the southern route) contrasted with faster-but-riskier (the mountain pass). Also, maybe stuff coming out of Coterois is more dangerous for the average homesteader than for the people who actually want to go to Coterois.

[Zap Dynamic]

I think these are all good points.

Omeganaut, I had worried a little bit about the Western arm of the gulf much earlier, but I got focused on other projects and forgot about it. I agree that it seems like the obvious method of travel to reach the West. One potentially easy way to make it more dangerous is to introduce pirates. That's hearkening back to an earlier age, but I think steampunk and pirates go together pretty well. The Natives wouldn't head out onto the Gulf, what with their fear of Lake Monsters and all, otherwise they could have their own Navy and harry travelers heading West.

Landis and Ninja, while I agree that the more interesting, fertile land lies immediately West of the Mountains, I think that river area just south of them would also be a tempting place for settlers. Maybe the Mountain Natives hold that area fiercely as well, and have the aid of some kind of creature/faction?

[Omeganaut]

The pirates seem like they would operate more out of the swampy land near Coterois. If they had bases in the gulf, the Imperial army would be able to capture those bases and wipe them out, and the navy could help. If you doubt the early navy's efficiency, look up the war between the U.S. and the Barbary Pirates. The small American navy won thanks to our superior ship design.

I'd say you should join the territory controlled by the Mountain natives to the Gulf, making that land more mountainous and preventing much imperial settlement off of the coast itself. Nuevo Borado could very well send raiders into that area as well to harass travelers, although those raiders would not be official in any sense of the term (perhaps insert a Poncho Villa character here as a potential villain)

[Landis963]

Landis and Ninja, while I agree that the more interesting, fertile land lies immediately West of the Mountains, I think that river area just south of them would also be a tempting place for settlers. Maybe the Mountain Natives hold that area fiercely as well, and have the aid of some kind of creature/faction?

Actually, I can think of a great idea why people wouldn't settle there: overpopulation. That river area, assuming a slightly suboptimal fertility area (compared with the region directly next to the mountains, which would be optimal) would probably be filled with settlers willing to settle for someplace worse than the coveted jewel of the mountains (and for those not foolhardy enough to take the mountain pass, a months-long relocation would probably serve to wear on them signficantly). Thus, settlers would arrive, see that the suboptimal area is taken, and then fan out in a northwesterly direction from there.

Also, that river area south of the mountains is perfect for brigands' secret hideouts, as Omeganaut mentioned, meaning that thieves and scoundrels of all sorts would be using it as turf. Of course, you can make that area mountainous as well, but in order to keep the map realistic, you should probably add some islands, or at least a peninsula to the end extending into the gulf. I would not recommend that because that makes that area of the gulf rather cramped.

[Omeganaut]

There is another person doing an American setting, although he is taking a different approach. The thread is here. I also referenced this thread on that one.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Also, that river area south of the mountains is perfect for brigands' secret hideouts, as Omeganaut mentioned, meaning that thieves and scoundrels of all sorts would be using it as turf. Of course, you can make that area mountainous as well, but in order to keep the map realistic, you should probably add some islands, or at least a peninsula to the end extending into the gulf. I would not recommend that because that makes that area of the gulf rather cramped.

It would be a lot simpler to say that there are bandits and pirates and such, rather than make me fix the map again . That said, a fertile region under near-constant occupation by pirates and the like isn't enough to drive settlers totally away. What if the river are south of the mountains was damaged? Maybe Dr Steam had an industrial accident (a magic spill for instance) that renders the region less fertile than it would otherwise be.

There is another person doing an American setting, although he is taking a different approach. The thread is here. I also referenced this thread on that one.

Eerie. What are the odds?

Did a quick map, just as a test to see what the Imperial Civil War would look like. Also, idea for the name of the war: The Kinstrife.

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[Landis963]

It would be a lot simpler to say that there are bandits and pirates and such, rather than make me fix the map again . That said, a fertile region under near-constant occupation by pirates and the like isn't enough to drive settlers totally away. What if the river are south of the mountains was damaged? Maybe Dr Steam had an industrial accident (a magic spill for instance) that renders the region less fertile than it would otherwise be.

The RL Tesla had a working lab and experiments in Colorado Springs (dramatized and expanded upon in The Prestige, among others), maybe we could have Tokarev's off-site laboratory there, where he worked on the really out-there stuff (e.g. the self-repairing bridge powered by steam-powered bees). Jameson could be willfully ignorant of the stuff that goes on out there, although once the various projects get past proof-of-concept he might start on making them more reliable, safer, more marketable, etc. in Firstport. Why don't we have an experiment (or several) with the spells Tokarev encountered in the construction of the Sunken Quarter get out and start wreaking havoc in that area of countryside?

Did a quick map, just as a test to see what the Imperial Civil War would look like. Also, idea for the name of the war: The Kinstrife.

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First off, good name. Second off, I noticed you had Coterois as a rebellious state, and furthermore, that you had it essentially cut off from the other rebellious states (agents would need to cover quite a lot of ground by foot in order to transmit messages either way). Why would Coterois be considered a rebel state, out of curiosity?

[Zap Dynamic]

OK! Let's see what we can work out.

The Pass Between the Mountains and The Sea: I had been looking at the political map, but now that I look back at the geographic map in the OP, I see that the mountains do in fact push almost all the way to the coast. That peninsula that juts out could very easily be an area controlled by the Mountain Natives, and seaborn travel or the slow path through the mountains could easily be the only ways to get to the West.

Also looking at the geographic map, it seems odd that the Mountain Natives have so much land West of the mountains. Shouldn't their territory be further East?

Omeganaut: First of all, I love the idea of a Pancho Villa character. I had completely forgotten about him!

As far as pirates are concerned, I think it would be easy enough for them to have secret bases. Especially with steampunk (floating island of metal that stays aloft by gathering moisture from clouds, anyone?). Maybe there's a place, Pirate's Plunder (name pending), that's a huge cave in the midst of a bunch of large, hard-to-navigate rocks. No one has been able to figure out a way to assault it (yet), and the pirates gather there to discuss temporary treaties or whatever.

Thanks for the link to that other project!

The Kinstrife: Perfect name.

I feel like those three red states in the Northwest corner of the cluster should be blue. I don't have such a problem with one side having much greater access to land than the other.

Also, I thought we had talked about Coterois being neutral? I suppose the city itself could be neutral while the state could pick a side, but now I'm just trying to remember what we had talked about, and I'm too lazy to go looking back through the thread.

Landis: I love the Colorado Springs idea. Keeping the "The Natives still hold that southern bit of land" idea intact, what if Tokarev built a steam fortress on top of one of the mountains (out of reach of the Mountain Natives) basically just say "Listen Natives, I can do whatever I want because I'm awesome."

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Also looking at the geographic map, it seems odd that the Mountain Natives have so much land West of the mountains. Shouldn't their territory be further East?

That's just me not gauging exactly while drawing up the map. New version upcoming.

The Kinstrife: Perfect name.

I feel like those three red states in the Northwest corner of the cluster should be blue. I don't have such a problem with one side having much greater access to land than the other.

Also, I thought we had talked about Coterois being neutral? I suppose the city itself could be neutral while the state could pick a side, but now I'm just trying to remember what we had talked about, and I'm too lazy to go looking back through the thread.

I'm gonna update the map. Looking at it today I have no idea what I was thinking. The Western Coastal cities were supposed to be Loyalist, while I thought the more inland areas would be secessionist. It's partly just a trend I decided to experiment with, partly an observation of my home-state. The coastal cities are vastly different in culture from the inland cities. I think I'll switch some of them to Neutral/No Majority for the time being.

Here now. A much better map. It actually shares dimensions with the Geographic now. Huzzah! Also, Kinstrife Map.

Better map!

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Kinstrife

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[Landis963]

OK! Let's see what we can work out.

The Pass Between the Mountains and The Sea: I had been looking at the political map, but now that I look back at the geographic map in the OP, I see that the mountains do in fact push almost all the way to the coast. That peninsula that juts out could very easily be an area controlled by the Mountain Natives, and seaborn travel or the slow path through the mountains could easily be the only ways to get to the West.

That makes sense. Mountain life is not that conducive to grouped settlements unless they are rough-hewn out of the cliff face or adaptations of existing caves, and even then reliable sources of water and food are necessary.

Also looking at the geographic map, it seems odd that the Mountain Natives have so much land West of the mountains. Shouldn't their territory be further East?

Is this another west/east mixup? Because from Ninja's answer and subsequent map fix it sounds like it is.

As far as pirates are concerned, I think it would be easy enough for them to have secret bases. Especially with steampunk (floating island of metal that stays aloft by gathering moisture from clouds, anyone?). Maybe there's a place, Pirate's Plunder (name pending), that's a huge cave in the midst of a bunch of large, hard-to-navigate rocks. No one has been able to figure out a way to assault it (yet), and the pirates gather there to discuss temporary treaties or whatever.

Why not a floating raft of dirigibles not unlike a more modular Castle Wulfenbach? That could be an excellent Blackbeard-stand-in's HQ, and falling-drop-pods/bathyspheres would be an excellent way for, say, Mahigan or Norton to be attacked ferociously and without warning. Also, it sounds like just the sort of thing Dr. Steam would think up, which suggests that a landbound raid on Steam's offsite facility recovered the plans for this nasty pirate boss.

Landis: I love the Colorado Springs idea. Keeping the "The Natives still hold that southern bit of land" idea intact, what if Tokarev built a steam fortress on top of one of the mountains (out of reach of the Mountain Natives) basically just say "Listen Natives, I can do whatever I want because I'm awesome."

The funny thing is, Norton can't do anything about it, even after the natives voice their complaints. Tokarev is just too valuable to the war effort to antagonize.

I'm gonna update the map. Looking at it today I have no idea what I was thinking. The Western Coastal cities were supposed to be Loyalist, while I thought the more inland areas would be secessionist. It's partly just a trend I decided to experiment with, partly an observation of my home-state. The coastal cities are vastly different in culture from the inland cities. I think I'll switch some of them to Neutral/No Majority for the time being.

Here now. A much better map. It actually shares dimensions with the Geographic now. Huzzah! Also, Kinstrife Map.

Better map!

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Kinstrife

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There was a mention of the natives getting that peninsula at the very southern end of their territory, will that be implemented?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Why not a floating raft of dirigibles not unlike a more modular Castle Wulfenbach? That could be an excellent Blackbeard-stand-in's HQ, and falling-drop-pods/bathyspheres would be an excellent way for, say, Mahigan or Norton to be attacked ferociously and without warning. Also, it sounds like just the sort of thing Dr. Steam would think up, which suggests that a landbound raid on Steam's offsite facility recovered the plans for this nasty pirate boss.

Emphasis mine. I cannot describe the girlish squee sound I made when I read that. Too cool.

There was a mention of the natives getting that peninsula at the very southern end of their territory, will that be implemented?

Totally missed that. I'll update the maps toot sweet.

Edit: Tweaked! Putting them here too so no one has to go back.
Better map!

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Kinstrife

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