American Mythology Setting (Help is welcome!)

[Landis963]

Emphasis mine. I cannot describe the girlish squee sound I made when I read that. Too cool.

What's more, once the drop pods were deployed (successfully, that is; their occupants inevitably died the first time around because the pirates didn't know how to work the controls/safety features, which the pirates only found out after the pods were found floating derelict in the upper atmosphere (a slowly inflating gas bag that takes in water particles and converts it to hydrogen gas brought it back up)), Dr. Steam would have been brought under fire for selling his tech to pirates. Ironically, only Jameson is on his side, as "Tokarev would never sell any of his tech if he could help it. He's honestly surprised his company is still afloat every morning, at least for the five minutes before he starts working on another of his steam-powered fever dreams."

EDIT: ...and it's not showing my post. SERVER!!!!!
EDIT2: Shiny and newly reposted. Hope this works.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

What's more, once the drop pods were deployed (successfully, that is; their occupants inevitably died the first time around because the pirates didn't know how to work the controls/safety features,

"My god! Those pirates are mad! They're throwing corpses at us!"

And so the Imperial Midwest is dominated by Skypirates? Awesome-sauce. One of them should definitely have a... particular accent.

[Landis963]

"My god! Those pirates are mad! They're throwing corpses at us!"

Remember the pirates don't know how to use the safety features on drop pods, which were released from the upper atmosphere...

"My god, those pirates are mad! They're throwing tomato sauce at us! Wait..."

And so the Imperial Midwest is dominated by Skypirates? Awesome-sauce. One of them should definitely have a... particular accent.

Hehehe. Also, I believe I mentioned gas bags that deployed from the pods after landing? That's purely to conserve resources (and manpower), I don't know if that would be practical. Also, I'm unsure as to when exactly Tokarev invented it (i.e. before or during the Kinstrife), and thus whether its intended use was as a vacation spot or as a floating weapon. If it's the former, then the gas bags are a purely pirate invention, as the pods would have been basically for use in a drastic emergency (i.e. "scuttle the castle" type situations), and one-use only. If the latter, than this was built into the design by Tokarev, in order to conserve the resources the army had.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Hehehe. Also, I believe I mentioned gas bags that deployed from the pods after landing? That's purely to conserve resources (and manpower), I don't know if that would be practical. Also, I'm unsure as to when exactly Tokarev invented it (i.e. before or during the Kinstrife), and thus whether its intended use was as a vacation spot or as a floating weapon. If it's the former, then the gas bags are a purely pirate invention, as the pods would have been basically for use in a drastic emergency (i.e. "scuttle the castle" type situations), and one-use only. If the latter, than this was built into the design by Tokarev, in order to conserve the resources the army had.

I can see Tokarev inventing this prior to the Kinstrife as a massive "Flying City" ala Bioshock Infinite. His original intention was to build this vast Steam City in order to relieve the congestion he saw in Firstport, but he (naturally) forgot just how big the frontiers were. Once he built the flying city in Firstport Bay and lifted off, he took the thing on a grand tour of the states. He built the drop-pods in order for people to come and go, even if they didn't have the money to purchase a personal "Whirligig", one of his more mass-produced flying machines. The gas bags would convert the air around the pod into its component parts upon landing. This cause several people to "drown" as the air was still technically being ripped apart molecule by molecule, even inside their lungs (Jameson added special gasmasks for occupants when he saw the oversight). The oxygen is drawn into the gas pods where it is mixed with super-compacted hydrogen, making water, which is then flash-vaporized into steam, which achieves lift.

Of course, once Tokarev noticed how bloody big the Empire's expanses were he realized that congestion wouldn't be a problem for hundreds of years, at least. So he abandoned the project somewhere over the West and never looked back. As in, literally never thought twice about leaving the most advanced piece of super-science and steam power just drifting over the country. He never even considered the military applications of the city, basically because as brilliant as he is, Dr Steam is hopelessly optimistic about people. He honestly cannot understand war, or why anybody would want one. During the Kinstrife many years later he performed brilliantly in creating warmachines and weapons for the army because, well, even if he didn't like it, he was damn good at making things that most people couldn't, or shouldn't, and talent was not a thing to be wasted.

Anyway, leaving the city drifting there apparently cause Jameson to have a coronary and burn all records of its existence, even managing to pull strings and destroy all public knowledge of it by means of burning newspapers, archives, even calling in favors from the government to declare knowledge of the project a national secret. The city remained in its idle state (no one told the people who went on the trip how to fly the damn thing, so they never left, except in the pods to collect food), until a band of the most ambitious pirates ever managed to take control. They've since used it to raid wherever they so pleased, whenever the mood took them. The people left on the city by Tokarev actually acclimated to the pirates surprisingly well, forming an entire community/economy driven through the loot and plunder the pirates bring back in. In all fairness, as long as you don't come laden with booty so as to attract the pirates' notice, the Steam City (Tokareville) is an ideal wretched hive of scum and villainy, perfect for illicit dealings and simple, honest gambling, mercenary work and prostitution. Think of it as Las Vegas, except flying, and powered by STEAM!

[Zap Dynamic]

The OP has been updated to include all three maps (Geographic, Political, and Kinstrife), and I've linked to the above post about Tokareville.

Before I say anything else, thank you so much Landis and Ninja for your help so far! You guys are great.

Now then, I like what we've got so far. We've kind of dabbled in the Kinstrife and cities recently. Eventually, I want to get to the point where we've got Tokareville-esque descriptions of all the cities, but while I was looking at the OP I realized that we don't have a whole lot of info about the various religions in the setting. Here's what I think we've got to work with:

• "Imperial" religion: By no means the official religion of the Empire, this is nevertheless the one that most Imperials worship. It focuses on light and daytime, and sprang up centuries ago as an organization opposed to the vampires in the East.
• The Old Gods: The religion of Borado. Nuevo Borado follows the same gods, but their views are much more progressive.
• Native Religion: Normally I'd say that each tribe/region should have their own religion, but because they're all united by the spiritual significance of the Western Mountains, I think they should at least be very similiar. Some kind of Earth goddess, the Thunderbird would make for a nice Sky God, then First Creator and Lone Man, for starters. Maybe the Ocean is the god of Lake Monsters, and is seen as evil?

I'll try to put together a pantheon for each of these later today.

[Landis963]

One thing: I've figured out how to couch the "AC vs. DC" thing in steampunk terms. Tokarev likes Steam power (this would be the DC), while Jameson likes kinetic energy from clockwork (as AC). Note that the two affiliations are switched from RL.

I can see Tokarev inventing this prior to the Kinstrife as a massive "Flying City" ala Bioshock Infinite. His original intention was to build this vast Steam City in order to relieve the congestion he saw in Firstport, but he (naturally) forgot just how big the frontiers were. Once he built the flying city in Firstport Bay and lifted off, he took the thing on a grand tour of the states. He built the drop-pods in order for people to come and go, even if they didn't have the money to purchase a personal "Whirligig", one of his more mass-produced flying machines. The gas bags would convert the air around the pod into its component parts upon landing. This cause several people to "drown" as the air was still technically being ripped apart molecule by molecule, even inside their lungs (Jameson added special gasmasks for occupants when he saw the oversight). The oxygen is drawn into the gas pods where it is mixed with super-compacted hydrogen, making water, which is then flash-vaporized into steam, which achieves lift.

My original idea was that the drop pods served more of a lifeboat-esque purpose than general use transportation (they could very feasibly be dropped in the middle of nowhere, or the middle of the ocean, for example, which doesn't serve much of a practical purpose), although I do like the idea of Whirligig(tm) flying machines. I think those should be used for day-to-day surface-to-air transfer of goods, people, etc. However, this (the Whirligig) should be an invention of Jameson's, perhaps before he was assimilated into Steamlabs Inc. (that would be Tokarev's company. Or maybe it should be Tokarev Industries?) Back to the gas bags: I'm not sure that sort of conversion is even possible, or would be deterred by gas masks. However, I think that some sort of gas filter in the bags would suck in surrounding air, then divert, say, hydrogen or nitrogen into the bag itself. Research tells me that hydrogen and helium are the only gases in the air with sufficient lifting power to lift something such as a Tokareville drop pod, so naturally those would be the only ones that would be used. Of course, you could have a pilot light or something activate when the pod is told to go home (through some means, don't ask me how all these systems fit in there) and just use hot air.

Of course, once Tokarev noticed how bloody big the Empire's expanses were he realized that congestion wouldn't be a problem for hundreds of years, at least. So he abandoned the project somewhere over the West and never looked back. As in, literally never thought twice about leaving the most advanced piece of super-science and steam power just drifting over the country.

Why is this guy so fun to write about?

Anyway, leaving the city drifting there apparently cause Jameson to have a coronary and burn all records of its existence, even managing to pull strings and destroy all public knowledge of it by means of burning newspapers, archives, even calling in favors from the government to declare knowledge of the project a national secret. The city remained in its idle state (no one told the people who went on the trip how to fly the damn thing, so they never left, except in the pods to collect food), until a band of the most ambitious pirates ever managed to take control.

Something tells me the people on there would mainly have been construction crews and engineers, since I don't think the city would have been formally unveiled yet. However, Jameson burning all records of its existence seems out of character for the professional Marty McFly we're making him out to be, and coronary heart attacks do not rapid motion induce. "stupidity-induced rage attack/psychotic break" seems the best bet, and Tokarev probably called in one of his many, many favors to have the resulting destruction covered up (and with it, the rest of the project). Also, in order to build the thing in the first place, there would need to be some flying machines beyond the drop pods, because of the previously mentioned unreliability in just dropping down to earth. One last thing: If Jameson contributed anything to this project, it would be steps to make it self-sufficient (roof gardens, windmill power generators), thus making trips down to the surface unnecessary at worst and simply correcting oversights at best.

They've since used it to raid wherever they so pleased, whenever the mood took them. The people left on the city by Tokarev actually acclimated to the pirates surprisingly well, forming an entire community/economy driven through the loot and plunder the pirates bring back in. In all fairness, as long as you don't come laden with booty so as to attract the pirates' notice, the Steam City (Tokareville) is an ideal wretched hive of scum and villainy, perfect for illicit dealings and simple, honest gambling, mercenary work and prostitution. Think of it as Las Vegas, except flying, and powered by STEAM!

I think we've already got a Vegas, in Tree Island, but a flying Tortuga would be the perfect fit. (This would be the Tortuga as shown in Pirates of the Caribbean)

Before I say anything else, thank you so much Landis and Ninja for your help so far! You guys are great.

De nada. Working on this has been really fun.

• "Imperial" religion: By no means the official religion of the Empire, this is nevertheless the one that most Imperials worship. It focuses on light and daytime, and sprang up centuries ago as an organization opposed to the vampires in the East.
• The Old Gods: The religion of Borado. Nuevo Borado follows the same gods, but their views are much more progressive.
• Native Religion: Normally I'd say that each tribe/region should have their own religion, but because they're all united by the spiritual significance of the Western Mountains, I think they should at least be very similiar. Some kind of Earth goddess, the Thunderbird would make for a nice Sky God, then First Creator and Lone Man, for starters. Maybe the Ocean is the god of Lake Monsters, and is seen as evil?

I'll try to put together a pantheon for each of these later today.

Should the Imperial religion be monotheistic? I mean, the easiest way to communicate the connection with daylight is to have a Sun God(dess), which might go a long way towards some common ground with both Nuevo and Viejo Borado, depending on what you decide about them. Also, much of the language we use to talk about the Christian god is couched in terms of light (the valley of the shadow of death, turning to His light, etc., etc.)

On the note of the Boradoans, It's logical to assume that they've mistaken the vanished crew members of the alien tech they live in/protect for gods, right? Which means that there needs to be, at the very least, a "Kirk", a "Spock", and a "McCoy" analogue, although they need not fit those characterizations or even those names. Also, there needs to be some way for the Boradoans to find out about these members of the crew, as it would be illogical to have the original crew members, to a man, have their portraits and names scrawled on the walls.

And as for the native religions, you can set up the basic framework very easily, with the Earth goddess equaling good, the Thunderbird ostensibly good in that he opposes evil in the form of the ocean, but without much regard for the Earth goddess' children, and the Ocean, as mentioned, being evil. First Creator and Lone Man can be otherwise neutral, or both can be evil, or whatever you decide. I'll admit I don't feel like looking back through the thread to see what we've decided about them.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Before I say anything else, thank you so much Landis and Ninja for your help so far! You guys are great.

Don't mention it. Like Landis said, this is a barrel of monkey fun.

One thing: I've figured out how to couch the "AC vs. DC" thing in steampunk terms. Tokarev likes Steam power (this would be the DC), while Jameson likes kinetic energy from clockwork (as AC). Note that the two affiliations are switched from RL.

Although that does imply that clockpunk will be proven superior to steampunk. Oh well, doesn't need to be that accurate. Sounds good.

Something tells me the people on there would mainly have been construction crews and engineers, since I don't think the city would have been formally unveiled yet. However, Jameson burning all records of its existence seems out of character for the professional Marty McFly we're making him out to be, and coronary heart attacks do not rapid motion induce. "stupidity-induced rage attack/psychotic break" seems the best bet, and Tokarev probably called in one of his many, many favors to have the resulting destruction covered up (and with it, the rest of the project). Also, in order to build the thing in the first place, there would need to be some flying machines beyond the drop pods, because of the previously mentioned unreliability in just dropping down to earth. One last thing: If Jameson contributed anything to this project, it would be steps to make it self-sufficient (roof gardens, windmill power generators), thus making trips down to the surface unnecessary at worst and simply correcting oversights at best.
… I think we've already got a Vegas, in Tree Island, but a flying Tortuga would be the perfect fit. (This would be the Tortuga as shown in Pirates of the Caribbean)

The coronary was just hyperbole. I kinda see Jameson as the practical, but cynical partner to Tokarev's genius/madness and blind optimism. That's why I assumed he'd be the one to do the “practical” thing and cover up the fiasco that is Tokareville. I do like your idea on how Jameson added to the flying city. And your pointing out how it's closer to Tortuga is a much more apt description than I gave.

Should the Imperial religion be monotheistic? I mean, the easiest way to communicate the connection with daylight is to have a Sun God(dess), which might go a long way towards some common ground with both Nuevo and Viejo Borado, depending on what you decide about them. Also, much of the language we use to talk about the Christian god is couched in terms of light (the valley of the shadow of death, turning to His light, etc., etc.)

Actually, the Imperial Religion sounds a lot like the Enlightenment Movement. It has the same connotations, but with a more philosophical bent, much like the majority of the RL Founding Fathers. The Empire is founded, not by people who necessarily believe in a deity, but by people who believe in forthrightness, intellect, moral conduct in all things, and a belief that they are the grand experiment to disprove the ways held so strongly in the Old World. The “pantheon” (if such a term is accurate) would include the Four Saints, that is the four analogues to George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, with a few minor ones thrown in. Despite this, the old Imperial faith should be founded more on ideals than anything else, with only a secondary focus on actual worship of beings. This faith is slowly being supplanted by a cult of hero-worship somewhat akin to the Great Awakening in RL American history.

On the note of the Boradoans, It's logical to assume that they've mistaken the vanished crew members of the alien tech they live in/protect for gods, right? Which means that there needs to be, at the very least, a "Kirk", a "Spock", and a "McCoy" analogue, although they need not fit those characterizations or even those names. Also, there needs to be some way for the Boradoans to find out about these members of the crew, as it would be illogical to have the original crew members, to a man, have their portraits and names scrawled on the walls.

I love the Trinity you've got going, but I feel we can take it a step farther. For example, I think there should be a devil-figure, a “Janeway” if you will (perhaps I watch too much SF Debris?). As well, the Nuevo Boradoans might worship a particularly awesome war-god, ala “Sisko”. We can have a lot of fun with this idea.

And as for the native religions, you can set up the basic framework very easily, with the Earth goddess equaling good, the Thunderbird ostensibly good in that he opposes evil in the form of the ocean, but without much regard for the Earth goddess' children, and the Ocean, as mentioned, being evil. First Creator and Lone Man can be otherwise neutral, or both can be evil, or whatever you decide. I'll admit I don't feel like looking back through the thread to see what we've decided about them.

I believe as to Lone Man and First Creator, we actually made them into another Tokarev and Jameson team. FC was a bit odd and fond of creating loads of new stuff without thought for the consequences, while Lone Man created things like Death and Entropy in order to alleviate some of the suffering FC would create by mistake. EX: First Creator would make Man and make him plentiful. Lone Man comes along and makes it so that Death exists to take away people after a while so they don't grow too plentiful and consume the entire world's resources and starve for eternity.

I find it kinda funny we have two such partnerships. Then again, partnerships have always been popular in America. See the Constitution for the best example of cooperation.

[Landis963]

Although that does imply that clockpunk will be proven superior to steampunk. Oh well, doesn't need to be that accurate. Sounds good.

It doesn't have to be proven superior. I mean, both would be eventually supplanted by electricity anyway.

The coronary was just hyperbole. I kinda see Jameson as the practical, but cynical partner to Tokarev's genius/madness and blind optimism. That's why I assumed he'd be the one to do the “practical” thing and cover up the fiasco that is Tokareville. I do like your idea on how Jameson added to the flying city. And your pointing out how it's closer to Tortuga is a much more apt description than I gave.

Maybe they can both get in on that. The destruction caused in Jameson's rage and frustration would have been covered up by Tokarev (thus neatly but unintentionally suppressing most of the relevant plans), and once Jameson calmed down, he would have finished the job of covering up Tokareville because he realized the extent of the fiasco.

Actually, the Imperial Religion sounds a lot like the Enlightenment Movement. It has the same connotations, but with a more philosophical bent, much like the majority of the RL Founding Fathers. The Empire is founded, not by people who necessarily believe in a deity, but by people who believe in forthrightness, intellect, moral conduct in all things, and a belief that they are the grand experiment to disprove the ways held so strongly in the Old World. The “pantheon” (if such a term is accurate) would include the Four Saints, that is the four analogues to George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, and Thomas Jefferson, with a few minor ones thrown in. Despite this, the old Imperial faith should be founded more on ideals than anything else, with only a secondary focus on actual worship of beings. This faith is slowly being supplanted by a cult of hero-worship somewhat akin to the Great Awakening in RL American history.

Sounds fair. I do like the idea of the Four Saints. However, who should be the targets, for lack of a better term, for the hero-worship cult?

I love the Trinity you've got going, but I feel we can take it a step farther. For example, I think there should be a devil-figure, a “Janeway” if you will (perhaps I watch too much SF Debris?). As well, the Nuevo Boradoans might worship a particularly awesome war-god, ala “Sisko”. We can have a lot of fun with this idea.

The devil would probably be a "Q" analogue, as most of the relative power level between them would be lost to the sands of time.

I believe as to Lone Man and First Creator, we actually made them into another Tokarev and Jameson team. FC was a bit odd and fond of creating loads of new stuff without thought for the consequences, while Lone Man created things like Death and Entropy in order to alleviate some of the suffering FC would create by mistake. EX: First Creator would make Man and make him plentiful. Lone Man comes along and makes it so that Death exists to take away people after a while so they don't grow too plentiful and consume the entire world's resources and starve for eternity.

I find it kinda funny we have two such partnerships. Then again, partnerships have always been popular in America. See the Constitution for the best example of cooperation.

Actually, it really works well: FC&LM are the magical counterpart to Tokarev & Jameson. Although I'd like to think that FC includes LM in his creative process a bit earlier than Tokarev does Jameson (remember, Tokarev comes up with the projects, and Jameson doesn't see them until proof-of-concept). Also, LM, being a god himself, gets a few more projects than Jameson does.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Maybe they can both get in on that. The destruction caused in Jameson's rage and frustration would have been covered up by Tokarev (thus neatly but unintentionally suppressing most of the relevant plans), and once Jameson calmed down, he would have finished the job of covering up Tokareville because he realized the extent of the fiasco.

That's a really good idea. It allows for a lot of personal interpretation in-universe for who exactly did the covering up (according to conspiracy theorists of course).

Sounds fair. I do like the idea of the Four Saints. However, who should be the targets, for lack of a better term, for the hero-worship cult?

Everyone we've come up with so far, or at least most of them. The idea is that people like Iron John, Concho Tex, Colonel Redfield, Mattimeo Potter and even Dr Tokarev himself are so inspirational to the people of the Empire that they are held in utter reverence by the populace. It's very American to hold historical figures in such reverence.

The devil would probably be a "Q" analogue, as most of the relative power level between them would be lost to the sands of time.

I always liked Q. Maybe the devil-figure for the Boradoans is more of a trickster than a malevolent force?

Actually, it really works well: FC&LM are the magical counterpart to Tokarev & Jameson. Although I'd like to think that FC includes LM in his creative process a bit earlier than Tokarev does Jameson (remember, Tokarev comes up with the projects, and Jameson doesn't see them until proof-of-concept). Also, LM, being a god himself, gets a few more projects than Jameson does.

It actually does sound to me that LM only comes around to proof-read FC as you said about Jameson and Tokarev. Still, it's a great thing we came up with by total coincidence. Maybe LM has the same blood pressure meds Jameson does?

[Zap Dynamic]

The Old Gods
The Boradoans claim that their gods descended to the earth from a distant star. To hear them tell it, they have traversed the vastness of heaven for eternity, and have settled on five different worlds in total. Leadership amongst their gods forms a kind of cycle, where each new world is ruled by a different god, with the others serving as vassals and councilors.

Dark Mirror ruled during the First World. He is Lord of Darkness, Grand Sorcerer, Peerless Warrior, and is renowned as a trickster. He weaved many powerful spells for the Old Gods, and brought them to many victories over their enemies. The First World was a realm of unintelligent giants, and under his rule it was a twilight world of scheming and deception. In the end, it fell to ruin when he became too greedy, assumed the form of a huge jaguar, and swallowed the world whole.

Bright Dragon ruled during the Second World. He is the King of Dawn, Master Artisan, and Clarion King. Depending on the tale, Bright Dragon is either the twin brother of Dark Mirror, or sometimes they are merely different aspects of the same entity. Regardless of the interpretation, these two are chief amongst the Old Gods, and much of the holy texts of Borado speak of their conflict with one another.

Alone amongst the Old Gods, Bright Dragon is possessed of piercingly clear vision, and his rule is characterized by harmony and perfection. The Second World was a place of peace that was inhabited by humans, but it was destroyed by the third god, who conjured massive hurricanes and accidentally turned the humans into monkeys.

Blue Cloud is the name of the third god, who ruled over the Third World. He is a god of rain and life, and all things flower and bloom under his gaze. His world was a place of flying, birdlike humanoids, and he reigned for many cycles. At last, Dark Mirror stole Green Cloud's wife, Green Cloud withheld the rains in his fury, and the world became a vast desert. Bright Dragon commanded Green Cloud to make it rain, but Green Cloud rained fire in his rage, and the Third World came to an end.

Red Drill ruled the Fourth World. She is a god of knowledge and preservation. The Fourth World was covered in water to protect it from Blue Cloud's wrath, and was inhabited by fish men. Under her rule, it was a place of great knowledge, but there was no progress or development. In the end, the Old Gods grew weary of the stagnant world, and uniformly abandoned it.

Green Eyes, goddess of travel, the stars, and language, was the ruler of the current, Fifth World. She is a young goddess, with little experience in command, so her rule was heavily characterized by guidance from the other four gods. They arrived on this world in a great ball of flame, and settled their palaces in what became the southern desert of the New World. After planting the seed of life in this world, the Old Gods left to observe its progress from a distance. Green Eyes last gift to the Fifth World was the calendar, and the Boradoans use it to determine when the Old Gods will return.

The Devout contend that the trappings of the Old Gods must be protected and preserved, whereas the people of Nuevo Borado believe that the palaces and artifacts of the Old Gods are a gift meant to forge a kingdom that will rule the world until the Old Gods return. They are in constant conflict over these beliefs, though neither has been able to gain ground in the fighting.

[Zap Dynamic]

Soo... I typed all ^that^ up while you guys were back-and-forthing for the past three or so posts. I took inspiration from the actual Aztec cosmology/pantheon, mixed in with a vague idea of Star Trek characters:

Bright Dragon: The Artsy, Brilliant Captain
Dark Mirror: The Science Officer/Q hybrid. I picture him being like Gary Oldman in the Lost in Space movie.
Blue Cloud: The Medical Officer
Red Drill: The Engineer
Green Eyes: The Navigator and Communications Officer

That the Old Gods were just aliens with really advanced technology is something I don't want the characters of the world to realize on any level. That said, it's still important to think of terms of those roles, so I tried to incorporate them.

The rest of your discussion:
Imperial Religion: I like the idea of the Four Saints, but it's absolutely critical that the Founding Fathers aren't deified. While it may be true that our own, real-world founding fathers are revered as though they're deities, they are not actually worshiped. I think the Four Saints idea is a homerun for the hero-cult thing, but it just can't be part of the religion practiced by most Imperials.

To weave that into the rest of the stuff you've got put together (which is great), here's what I propose. One of the core tenets of the religion is leaving the Old World to escape the vampire menace. The Founding Fathers--who went to church like every good citizen, but held decidedly Enlightened, "'God' is the power of nature etc."-style beliefs--used the tenet of escaping the Old World to their advantage. "Yes!" they said, "God wants us to escape the Old World and make the most of the New! And humanity must do its part to spread the light of wisdom [note: not God] across this land!"

Native Religion: That's a cool parallel that popped up! Radical!

That's all that I'll be able to get up tonight. Next I'll cook up some stuff from the anti-vampire Religion and Hero-Cult stuff.

[Landis963]

I like the idea that each "god" was the ruler of a world before theirs. However, I'm not sure how the Boradoans got this idea without the "our gods are alien beings" penny dropping. Even if they only got hold of a highly corrupted and partially destroyed captain's log, how would they know that these were different worlds? I mean, the Viejo Boradoans would have known that their world was not only desert, because they were on the coast, and could feasibly have explored out to what is now the Coterois peninsula. Likewise, the Nuevo Boradoans would have known this from the less sandy portions of their nation. So why did they assume that these weren't parts of the same world, perhaps even the same world as their own? Furthermore, any proper nouns that made it through the corruption would have been transliterated syllable for syllable (maybe "data" or "spock" gets mistaken for "Red drill" or "Picard" or "kirk" gets mistaken for "bright dragon"), which explains the cast of characters, but why wouldn't they get pigeonholed into one role per name?

[Zap Dynamic]

Good questions! Let me see if I can answer them.

First off, a whole lot of this stuff I borrowed from this page about Aztec mythology, so I'd recommend giving that a quick skim.

Taking your post point-by-point:

I'm not sure how the Boradoans got this idea without the "our gods are alien beings" penny dropping.

I imagine the ancient ancestors of the Boradoans actually interacted with these aliens, but the humans thought of the aliens as gods because of the radical disparity in power. Eventually the aliens left, and the humans went on telling the tales of the "gods" and their time on this planet. Thus, most of the information about "other worlds" comes from the lips of the aliens themselves.

...Viejo Boradoans would have known...Likewise, the Nuevo Boradoans would have known...

I think I addressed this above, but it's worth pointing out that--at the time these stories became a permanent part of their culture--the Boradoans were all united. It wasn't until much after the time when the Old Gods left that the Boradoans separated into their modern factions.

So why did they assume that these weren't parts of the same world, perhaps even the same world as their own?

It's possible that they did, even though the aliens were telling the story from their own mouths. Personally, I like the idea of the Boradoans believing in the existence of other planets (a belief that few/none of the other present ethnic groups are likely to share), and I think other theories have considerable weaknesses. For starters, I don't picture the proto-Boradoans having the intellect to conceive of a world that is as wide as this world actually is (Earth-size, fyi).

...why wouldn't [the gods] get pigeonholed into one role per name?

This is taken from the actual Aztec pantheon, as per that link up above. Most of these gods had a variety of things in their portfolio, and I just went ahead and preserved that for the Old Gods. It's definitely not necessary, but the meta-game explanation could be something like the aliens crash landed on this planet (and had all their conflict and blunders on the other worlds) because they're actually juvenile aliens that hijacked a ship or something. They've been learning with each new world, but they still have problems to deal with, as evidenced by the fact that they crashed into this planet. Of course, this is well beyond the knowledge of any human in the setting.

Also, I should mention that there are many, MANY more aliens that were on this planet besides the ones I mentioned. There are a LOT of spaceships at the Palace of the Gods, and a fair number at Platarena, too. The pantheon I created would be the "away team" that has all the adventures while all the drones see to the maintenance of the ship.

While we're talking about the aliens, I hadn't considered how they left this planet with their wrecked space ships. Maybe they actually died? Maybe they don't technically need their ships to leave the planet, aka teleportation or something? Maybe they never left, but they're actually asleep within the bowels of the Palace of the Gods? Maybe a lot of them died, the survivors salvaged parts from the fleet, and left in just a few ships, leaving their other wreckage behind?

[Landis963]

Taking your post point-by-point:

I imagine the ancient ancestors of the Boradoans actually interacted with these aliens, but the humans thought of the aliens as gods because of the radical disparity in power. Eventually the aliens left, and the humans went on telling the tales of the "gods" and their time on this planet. Thus, most of the information about "other worlds" comes from the lips of the aliens themselves.

I assumed that they would be in some sort of dormant state and thus the only reason the Boradoans would know would be from some damaged PADD or something. Your method makes enough sense for it not to matter. Although It doesn't make sense that they would leave without taking their ship, which I think makes the idea that they are dormant inside the bowels of the ship most compelling. Unless of course they just beamed back or something. I suppose it also makes sense that the fact that they had physical bodies would be lost to myth or warped into tales of god's immoralities or something (if it worked for the Greeks...).

I think I addressed this above, but it's worth pointing out that--at the time these stories became a permanent part of their culture--the Boradoans were all united. It wasn't until much after the time when the Old Gods left that the Boradoans separated into their modern factions.

Right, whoops, should have caught that. Why don't we call the Borado nation under the golden age of the Old Gods Borado Mayor or Borado Major (with a y sound or a soft j)?

It's possible that they did, even though the aliens were telling the story from their own mouths. Personally, I like the idea of the Boradoans believing in the existence of other planets (a belief that few/none of the other present ethnic groups are likely to share), and I think other theories have considerable weaknesses. For starters, I don't picture the proto-Boradoans having the intellect to conceive of a world that is as wide as this world actually is (Earth-size, fyi).

If they had the relevant mathematics, then some genius could have come close. Maybe they just trusted their gods to take care of most of the non-essential math & science (Non-essential, in this case, I'm guessing would cover topics such as "how large the planet is"). I mean, even Eratosthenes didn't have much beyond trigonometry and how the sunlight fell down two wells, and even he calculated the circumference of the earth.

This is taken from the actual Aztec pantheon, as per that link up above.

Oh right, I'd forgotten how much the Aztec pantheon loved multitasking.

Most of these gods had a variety of things in their portfolio, and I just went ahead and preserved that for the Old Gods. It's definitely not necessary, but the meta-game explanation could be something like the aliens crash landed on this planet (and had all their conflict and blunders on the other worlds) because they're actually juvenile aliens that hijacked a ship or something. They've been learning with each new world, but they still have problems to deal with, as evidenced by the fact that they crashed into this planet. Of course, this is well beyond the knowledge of any human in the setting.

That makes sense, although I have a few other ideas about how the aliens piloted their ships. I'd need to know more about their physical appearance first though. Could they, for example, be mistaken for angels if they wanted to be? White ensemble, wing-like appendages, etc.?

While we're talking about the aliens, I hadn't considered how they left this planet with their wrecked space ships. Maybe they actually died? Maybe they don't technically need their ships to leave the planet, aka teleportation or something? Maybe they never left, but they're actually asleep within the bowels of the Palace of the Gods? Maybe a lot of them died, the survivors salvaged parts from the fleet, and left in just a few ships, leaving their other wreckage behind?

The tweest-hound in me is quite partial to them being dormant somehow inside the engines of the ship. I'm getting quite the inspiration brain-wave from DX:HR's final boss, although if you haven't played it and want to remain unspoiled, I will remain silent on that inspiration.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm into the idea of them being dormant within the ships in a big way. They don't even really have to be in some sequestered part of the wreckage, because I imagine the proto-Boradoans were basically slaves to these aliens, which is part of the reason why they don't go anywhere near the Palace of the Gods, and protect it from all outsiders.

As far as what the aliens look like, I don't know that it's something we really need to make specific. The Aztec gods could shapeshift, and assumed forms that looked like humans, jaguars, snake birds, and other stuff, so they could look like anything. If I had to settle on something, I'm a big fan of aliens-as-light-jellyfish like in this video (skip to 7:22 and buckle in for the next 45 seconds or so). That would explain why the people of Nuevo Borado have had such a hard time figuring out how to unlock the secrets of Platarena.

And, in conclusion, I have no idea what DX:HR stands for.

[Landis963]

I'm into the idea of them being dormant within the ships in a big way. They don't even really have to be in some sequestered part of the wreckage, because I imagine the proto-Boradoans were basically slaves to these aliens, which is part of the reason why they don't go anywhere near the Palace of the Gods, and protect it from all outsiders.

I would think that, in the model I'm envisioning, they are locked inside... call them stasis pods for lack of a better term, but they can still see what the ship's sensors see. As such, when they want to actually look at their domain, they would call for a sacrifice (or 5). This sacrifice would be taken (or would walk willingly - as I recall some Aztec sacrifices considered it an honor) deep within the ship, one of the stasis pods would be temporarily opened and disconnected from the system so that the sacrifice and the god could talk, then the sacrifice would be killed, his spine replaced, and his brain re-purposed so that the god could use it as a puppet. Yes, this would be the Abusive type of Precursor, why do you ask?

As far as what the aliens look like, I don't know that it's something we really need to make specific. The Aztec gods could shapeshift, and assumed forms that looked like humans, jaguars, snake birds, and other stuff, so they could look like anything. If I had to settle on something, I'm a big fan of aliens-as-light-jellyfish like in this video (skip to 7:22 and buckle in for the next 45 seconds or so). That would explain why the people of Nuevo Borado have had such a hard time figuring out how to unlock the secrets of Platarena.

Holograms, and maybe when they want a physical but non-human form, they augment a sacrifice with extra limbs or call for a non-human sacrifice or something.

And, in conclusion, I have no idea what DX:HR stands for.

Deus Ex: Human Revolution. Excellent game, a worthy successor to the original, but with a few hiccups. I highly recommend it if you haven't played it already.

[Zap Dynamic]

I remember hearing buzz about Deus Ex before it was a series. I've always kind of wanted to play it, but I've never gotten around to it.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I would think that, in the model I'm envisioning, they are locked inside... call them stasis pods for lack of a better term, but they can still see what the ship's sensors see. As such, when they want to actually look at their domain, they would call for a sacrifice (or 5). This sacrifice would be taken (or would walk willingly - as I recall some Aztec sacrifices considered it an honor) deep within the ship, one of the stasis pods would be temporarily opened and disconnected from the system so that the sacrifice and the god could talk, then the sacrifice would be killed, his spine replaced, and his brain re-purposed so that the god could use it as a puppet. Yes, this would be the Abusive type of Precursor, why do you ask?
...
Holograms, and maybe when they want a physical but non-human form, they augment a sacrifice with extra limbs or call for a non-human sacrifice or something.

As much as I also like DXHR, I just want to put forth an idea. The idea technically comes from Trigun, so I'm gonna spoil'r the idea so no one gets upset.

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So, we have the aliens in a sort of stasis here as well. But they are also powering the ship themselves. The alien's biology is based somewhat loosely on the same principle as The Plants from Trigun. They can naturally generate huge amounts of energy (which is what allowed them to develop an advanced, highly peaceful society since power and energy were never concerns). The problem is that, regardless of what exactly caused them to crash, when the aliens reached the planet, most of them died in the crash. With severe damage done to their ship, the aliens spend years among the natives, teaching them language (easier to control a people when you can talk to them) and basic mathematics. Anything more advanced is probably against some sort of Prime Directive. Anyway, eventually, the aliens have repaired their ship enough to start sending a distress signal. But because of how remote the planet is, it will take all of the aliens constantly powering the ship while in stasis in order to get a message anywhere in any sort of time. The problem is that it's taking so much time that some of the stasis pods/generators start to fail. As a stop-gap measure, the aliens used Telepathy (go with it) to command their priests to make sacrifices. People are sacrificed by being sent into the bowels of the ship, where they are broken down into nutrients to keep the aliens alive in their stasis.

In addition, I would agree that holograms or psychic projections would be best for the aliens to communicate with their followers. But I don't think they should be able to manifest physically except for short times while telepathically controlling a follower.

Right, whoops, should have caught that. Why don't we call the Borado nation under the golden age of the Old Gods Borado Mayor or Borado Major (with a y sound or a soft j)?

Heh, heh. Bajor. Funny.

If they had the relevant mathematics, then some genius could have come close. Maybe they just trusted their gods to take care of most of the non-essential math & science (Non-essential, in this case, I'm guessing would cover topics such as "how large the planet is"). I mean, even Eratosthenes didn't have much beyond trigonometry and how the sunlight fell down two wells, and even he calculated the circumference of the earth.

Don't forget also that many Mesoamerican civilizations, most notably the Mayans, kept insanely accurate records of the movement of stars and the length of the year. Their calendars are scarily accurate.

That makes sense, although I have a few other ideas about how the aliens piloted their ships. I'd need to know more about their physical appearance first though. Could they, for example, be mistaken for angels if they wanted to be? White ensemble, wing-like appendages, etc.?

I see them as very tall and oddly colored, sort of like Kokopeli. I'd also post a picture of the Anasazi Aliens from the Real Adventures of Jonny Quest, but I recently discovered that there is literally no pic of them on the internet at all.

EDIT: And lo, did the Universe call me an idiot for not looking hard enough (to be fair, I had to search through several AMV's to find these.)

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[Omeganaut]

I feel that part of the American mythos about aliens involves a cover-up and some kind of link between the government and the aliens. Perhaps that is why the Neuvo Boradoans split off, they felt the priestocracy was keeping secrets about the aliens, and some of the common folk split off to try to learn those secrets themselves. In actuality, no one has heard from the aliens in years, and the Viejo Boradoans are remaining faithful to their last words, instructing the mortals to never let their powerful tech be used by mortals as it will be abused and may destroy the world.

[Zap Dynamic]

[The Nuevo Boradoans] felt the priestocracy was keeping secrets about the [gods], and some of the common folk split off to try to learn those secrets themselves. In actuality, no one has heard from the [gods] in years, and the Viejo Boradoans are remaining faithful to their last words, instructing the mortals to never let their powerful tech be used by mortals as it will be abused and may destroy the world.

Likewise, they continue to offer regular sacrifices according to their calendar, devised from the knowledge they gained of mathematics and the stars from their gods.


(I think what you wrote is perfect, and I think it can be an obvious hat-tip and an original twist just by replacing "aliens" with "gods," like I've done. Bravo!)

[Landis963]

this is slightly OT, but I have to ask: Is your avatar a Samurai Link? Because that is kind of awesome.

EDIT: Sorry, a Shogun Link. Samurai have different armor.

[Zap Dynamic]

It sure is! Ceika adapted this picture for me that I found on deviantArt.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It sure is! Ceika adapted this picture for me that I found on deviantArt.

Ah! I thought it was Shogun Yugioh. I mistook the chinstrap for red hair.

[Landis963]

One question about the native gods: Are they physical gods, or just legends?

Regardless, I have an idea on Tokarev's offsite laboratory. It's on the top of a peak, as I recall, so why doesn't he call it Thunderbird Station after the legendary beast? The parallel might be made more... something (ironic? I don't know) if thunderbirds routinely attack the outpost which shares their name.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm not entirely sure how the native gods should be represented.

Here's what I'm thinking:
In the Empire, there's a religion that's practiced by almost everyone, but I imagine it being a much greater case of faith than evidential truth. Besides, it may not even have a formal deity, just an overarching command to destroy the creatures of the darkness with the Light. That said, these guys are essentially here to act as a counterpoint to any potential demonic possession/haunted house/whatever stories, so I feel like devotion to this religion should grant bonuses as regards that.

That said, the "pantheon" in the Empire that's more in line with traditional tabletop representations is the collection of myths and heroes. They each represent a particular part of reality, they're all notoriously powerful/skilled, and people have been known to accomplish great things merely by being inspired by their stories. It's important to note that they are not worshiped in the real-world-religion sense, but devotion towards them in the tabletop RPG sense does grant tangible benefits.

Now let's look at Boradoans old and new. They too have a distinct pantheon, known to us (but not to them) to be physically present in the world. We haven't talked explicitly about these Old Gods being able to influence the world outside their "palaces," but the Boradoans nevertheless make sacrifices to them. In terms of benefits enjoyed by this worship, I imagine the Devout Boradoans gain what are essentially spells that augment their resilience, etc. The Nuevo Boradoans, on the other hand, gain access to technology (which could be mechanically represented as magic or whatever you please) because of their study of these Old Gods.

Let's sum up what we have so far:

• The Lightborn (just came up with the name): Nominally worshiped, teaching instruct followers to love the light and give their most devout the ability to combat demons/undead.
• The Heroes: Historical figures of great importance to the Empire. People listen to the stories of these people, come to respect them greatly, and can call upon unknown inner reserves of strength/daring/ingenuity via an understanding that they come from the same stock as these heroes.
• The Old Gods: Trade sacrifical devotion for either strength of body and mind, or access to powerful technology.

Based on the precedent we've established, it seems only just that we give the same sort of metaphysical presence to the Native gods, but we need a means of representing it. I think what might be the easiest way to represent it is via ritual magic, described as spirit journeys. The gods of the Natives should be primal representations of reality's forces (for instance, the Thunderbird is a representation of thunderstorms), and Natives should be able to commune with them by ingesting a substance of some kind (peyote, the peace pipe, whatever), and going on some trippy journey to learn what they need to, to get the MacGuffin, or what have you.

An example: a friend of mine was talking to me about Native American peyote rituals from some reservation in Oklahoma. Apparently there are occasions when you go into a tent with a wise man to drink peyote. Soon, you hear the thundering of the hooves of the horses of the gods, and your wise man guides you on a days-long quest through unbelievable realms so you can gain knowledge and be spiritually cleansed.

a) I feel like that's the best way to represent the Native gods. Present and capable of interacting with reality (maybe sometimes even like the Heroes of the Empire, showing up at random at the campfire or wherever), but dwelling beyond some veil that can't be passed except with great preparation.

b) I didn't think I had this much to write on the subject.

Here's a chart based on what I've just laid out, mainly because I just figured out how to make them and I think they're way cool:

{table=head]Religion|Method of Devotion|Devotees|Powers Granted
Lightborn|Prayer|Imperials|Ability to (better?) combat Demons and the Undead (Paladin/Cleric-esque)
Heroes|Adoration|All Cultures|Ability to call upon their powers, not unlike a very un-magical kind of Pact Magic
Old Gods|Sacrifice|Boradoans Old and New|Either resilience of body and spirit, or access to unheard of technology (transportation, weapons, food creation, etc.). Very much like Sorcs/Wizards
Native Gods|Spirit Journeys|Natives|Access to great insight, the reception of mighty artifacts, etc. No clear analog, but it has strong Old-School flavor.[/table]

Looking at it in this light, the "Heroes" element serves as a multi-present, pseudoreligious faction that all the cultures can access. The Empire would use figures like Tokarev, Iron John, etc., the Natives would use their own culture heroes, and the Boradoans might even use the Old Gods themselves.

Thoughts?

[Ninjadeadbeard]

Here's what I'm thinking:
In the Empire, there's a religion that's practiced by almost everyone, but I imagine it being a much greater case of faith than evidential truth. Besides, it may not even have a formal deity, just an overarching command to destroy the creatures of the darkness with the Light. That said, these guys are essentially here to act as a counterpoint to any potential demonic possession/haunted house/whatever stories, so I feel like devotion to this religion should grant bonuses as regards that.

I still like the idea of an Enlightenment themed faith. It just feels to me a little closer to what some of the Founding Father's believed in, the idea that rationalism and logic were at the foundation of the world and that all things could be known in time. Tokarev would definitely be a follower of that kind of faith.

That said, the "pantheon" in the Empire that's more in line with traditional tabletop representations is the collection of myths and heroes. They each represent a particular part of reality, they're all notoriously powerful/skilled, and people have been known to accomplish great things merely by being inspired by their stories. It's important to note that they are not worshiped in the real-world-religion sense, but devotion towards them in the tabletop RPG sense does grant tangible benefits.

Although I could totally see myself sacrificing a sheep for someone like Lincoln or FDR. But yeah, I like this. It feels like the religious equivalent of “pulling yourself up by the bootstraps”, using only the example set by one's forebears to achieve glory. Very American.

Now let's look at Boradoans old and new. They too have a distinct pantheon, known to us (but not to them) to be physically present in the world. We haven't talked explicitly about these Old Gods being able to influence the world outside their "palaces," but the Boradoans nevertheless make sacrifices to them. In terms of benefits enjoyed by this worship, I imagine the Devout Boradoans gain what are essentially spells that augment their resilience, etc. The Nuevo Boradoans, on the other hand, gain access to technology (which could be mechanically represented as magic or whatever you please) because of their study of these Old Gods.

I also like this. As the tech behind the Gods is so advanced, I'd advise making absolutely no effort to explain any of it. Clarke's Third Law should be in full effect here. The Devout (or Viejo as Landis mentioned at some point) Boradoans would, of course be Clerics. Perhaps there also a few Sorcerers about, Avatars of the Gods, as it were. The Gods basically live through a mortal vessel (alleviates the boredom) but they retain their natural powers (I assume that the Gods and their tech are virtually indistinguishable).

The Nuevo Boradoans are picture perfect Wizards. Delvers into lore far beyond their kin, dabbling in arts best left alone. Perhaps many of them are cyborgs? As in, one will have a robotic arm put on to he can gain a Lightning spell. Like The Man that was Used Up, but not quite as extreme. I can see Imperial delegates looking on their Nuevo Borado counterparts with mixed contempt and revulsion, seeing how their hands are made of iron instead of flesh. Of course, Tokarev would just beg to study them.

• The Lightborn (just came up with the name): Nominally worshiped, teaching instruct followers to love the light and give their most devout the ability to combat demons/undead.

It's a good name, regardless of where you take this group. I sort of wonder where the demon/undead fighting came from. Maybe I just didn't see it mentioned before? Regardless, while I would advocate the Enlightenment angle (see above where I rant) this has precedence too. This feels, not like the founding faith of the Empire, but something that grew up from it in the decades following independence, a lot like the Great Awakening in the early 1800's, where Romanticism and the idea that Nature/God was too vast for us puny humans to grasp (as opposed to the scientific/logic and reasoning based attitudes held during the Revolutionary War and the remainder of the century) took root.

Like I said, this also has room since America has been characterized by the occasional wave of religious fervor.

Based on the precedent we've established, it seems only just that we give the same sort of metaphysical presence to the Native gods, but we need a means of representing it. I think what might be the easiest way to represent it is via ritual magic, described as spirit journeys. The gods of the Natives should be primal representations of reality's forces (for instance, the Thunderbird is a representation of thunderstorms), and Natives should be able to commune with them by ingesting a substance of some kind (peyote, the peace pipe, whatever), and going on some trippy journey to learn what they need to, to get the MacGuffin, or what have you.
…
a) I feel like that's the best way to represent the Native gods. Present and capable of interacting with reality (maybe sometimes even like the Heroes of the Empire, showing up at random at the campfire or wherever), but dwelling beyond some veil that can't be passed except with great preparation.

So, a combination of Druids, Sorcerer-types and whatever classes deal with potions. Then there's this. I think the Native Faith should basically resemble a Disney Acid Sequence all the time. Nature at once far bigger than man, and yet so very personal. I like that.

[Zap Dynamic]

I still like the idea of an Enlightenment themed faith. It just feels to me a little closer to what some of the Founding Father's believed in, the idea that rationalism and logic were at the foundation of the world and that all things could be known in time. Tokarev would definitely be a follower of that kind of faith.

The Enlightenment faith is exactly what I picture the Empire's Hero Cult stuff to be. However, I can't stress enough that while the mechanics might treat this like a religion, the people of the world don't look at it that way. It's just hearing awesome stories, and using those stories to find hidden reserves within oneself.

I also like this. As the tech behind the Gods is so advanced, I'd advise making absolutely no effort to explain any of it. Clarke's Third Law should be in full effect here. The Devout (or Viejo as Landis mentioned at some point) Boradoans would, of course be Clerics. Perhaps there also a few Sorcerers about, Avatars of the Gods, as it were. The Gods basically live through a mortal vessel (alleviates the boredom) but they retain their natural powers (I assume that the Gods and their tech are virtually indistinguishable).

The Nuevo Boradoans are picture perfect Wizards. Delvers into lore far beyond their kin, dabbling in arts best left alone. Perhaps many of them are cyborgs? As in, one will have a robotic arm put on to he can gain a Lightning spell. Like The Man that was Used Up, but not quite as extreme. I can see Imperial delegates looking on their Nuevo Borado counterparts with mixed contempt and revulsion, seeing how their hands are made of iron instead of flesh. Of course, Tokarev would just beg to study them.

I agree with everything.

I sort of wonder where the demon/undead fighting came from. Maybe I just didn't see it mentioned before?

It's nothing that I've spent any time talking about in the thread, but it's something that's been pretty heavy on my mind. American folklore (especially within the past 50-60 years) is rife with stories (read: movies) of demonic possession, hauntings, witch hunts, and zombies. In almost all of these stories, Christianity (or faith in general) is used to combat these things to varying degrees of success, and the Lightborn is an attempt to represent that force of light that stands against the darkness.

This feels, not like the founding faith of the Empire, but something that grew up from it in the decades following independence, a lot like the Great Awakening in the early 1800's, where Romanticism and the idea that Nature/God was too vast for us puny humans to grasp (as opposed to the scientific/logic and reasoning based attitudes held during the Revolutionary War and the remainder of the century) took root.

My thinking is like this:
The Lightborn were the earliest colonists from the Old World, crossing the seas to escape the horrors of the Vampire shadow government. They continued to practice their faith, even as many, many more Old Worlders immigrated for their own reasons. Eventually, all of these immigrants gather into The Empire. Because they were here first, the Lightborn have a very strong presence in the Empire, even though the Empire maintains a strict policy in favor of religious freedom.
Compare:

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The [pilgrims] were the earliest colonists from the Old World, crossing the seas to escape the horrors of [religious persecution]. They continued to practice their faith, even as many, many more Old Worlders immigrated for their own reasons. Eventually, all of these immigrants gathered into [The USA]. Because they were here first, [Christianity] has a very strong presence in [the US], even though [the US] maintains a strict policy in favor of religious freedom.

P.S. - This makes me think of Lightborn Amish communities, which for some reason is totally awesome to me.

So, a combination of Druids, Sorcerer-types and whatever classes deal with potions. Then there's this. I think the Native Faith should basically resemble a Disney Acid Sequence all the time. Nature at once far bigger than man, and yet so very personal. I like that.

Hahahaha, yes! You've explained it perfectly. I want big-lipped alligators at every wacky step of the way.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

It's nothing that I've spent any time talking about in the thread, but it's something that's been pretty heavy on my mind. American folklore (especially within the past 50-60 years) is rife with stories (read: movies) of demonic possession, hauntings, witch hunts, and zombies. In almost all of these stories, Christianity (or faith in general) is used to combat these things to varying degrees of success, and the Lightborn is an attempt to represent that force of light that stands against the darkness.

Yeah. I like that. We're good here.

My thinking is like this:
The Lightborn were the earliest colonists from the Old World, crossing the seas to escape the horrors of the Vampire shadow government. They continued to practice their faith, even as many, many more Old Worlders immigrated for their own reasons. Eventually, all of these immigrants gather into The Empire. Because they were here first, the Lightborn have a very strong presence in the Empire, even though the Empire maintains a strict policy in favor of religious freedom.
Compare:
The [pilgrims] were the earliest colonists from the Old World, crossing the seas to escape the horrors of [religious persecution]. They continued to practice their faith, even as many, many more Old Worlders immigrated for their own reasons. Eventually, all of these immigrants gathered into [The USA]. Because they were here first, [Christianity] has a very strong presence in [the US], even though [the US] maintains a strict policy in favor of religious freedom.

P.S. - This makes me think of Lightborn Amish communities, which for some reason is totally awesome to me.

Now that I see you're thought process, this makes a lot of sense. Maybe I was just fixating on one thing you mentioned. I agree wholeheartedly. Although now I wonder what some of the later immigrant's faith is going to look like. Irish-types, for instance, make up a lot of the culture in cities like Boston and New York because of the huge immigration booms during the Civil War and late 19th Century. Catholicism historically always had trouble in America due to the more Protestant underpinnings. (See: Gangs of New York)

How about we have the immigrants coming over to the Empire be closer to Pagans than usual? Like, the Irish stand-ins (Finnegals) are devout servants (and descendants) of the Unseelie Fey Folk? The Lightborn Imperials don't always get along with them because they see these immigrants' “Fey” as another word for “Vampire”. But as the Finnegals come over, their culture starts to merge into the general Imperial one. So you have some Lightborns with slight accents invoking a Finnigaelic Hero to combat a demon.

@Amish: Verily. Thou hast measured it well. (We need an Amish smilie)

[Zap Dynamic]

(We need an Amish smilie)

Truer words...

I'm down with having several different ethnicities that are also different waves of immigrants. While I'm thinking about it, I want some of the "Natives" in the far northeast to be white, bearded sailor folk, to reflect the whole Vinland thing.

[Ninjadeadbeard]

I'm down with having several different ethnicities that are also different waves of immigrants. While I'm thinking about it, I want some of the "Natives" in the far northeast to be white, bearded sailor folk, to reflect the whole Vinland thing.

Note: I just realized you actually did mean North East as opposed to North West. I thought you were talking about those Fisherman-type Natives on the Northwest coast. Well, you could still take my advice if you feel like it. It certainly adds variety to the Western Regions of the Empire. And Eastern Achalka might be a better locale for Vinland types, considering Newfoundland and such.

Original Idea Before Correction: Or, Russian. Alaska was a series of Russian Colonies back in the early 19th Century, and Fort Ross in Northern California was their local settlement. In RL of course, the Spanish pushed the Russians out of California, and Russia sold Alaska to the US, but we could change that around. Why don't we have a sizable portion of the "NW Natives" (also need a name) who are descendants of Russian-Viking-Inuit pairings that took place years before. These Ruvinit Peoples were incorporated into the local populations after support from their homelands dried up, and now the Empire has extended control over them. As an added touch, the Ruvinits think of themselves primarily as Natives before their older nationalities, and form a part of the core of North-Western Native resistance to the Empire.

EDIT: Why do I keep starting new pages?