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    Default Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    As I am only really familiar with D&D, which does not have called shots, I am truly curious as to how various systems that do have called shots (and similar targeted attacks) handle it. I've been trying to think of how it could be handled, and I only came up with a few options, none of which really seemed to fall together. But I know that there are systems that successfully incorporate the concept, so I ask my fellow Playgrounders to enlighten me - how do these systems handle it?
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Uuh, that's a broad question. I'll stick to a few:

    Savage Worlds has penalties to your attack rolls, which then trigger specific effects if you hit.
    Headshot? -4 to hit for +4 damage (which is a lot).
    Hit him in the arm? -2 to hit, and he must make a Strength roll or be disarmed.
    Want to disarm him without hurting him? -4 to hit and same effect as above, only he doesn't take damage.

    Dark Heresy has random hit location to begin with, so Called Shots are penalties to your attack to target:
    A) Less armoured body parts.
    B) Avoid partial cover.
    C) When you deal critical damage, they'll be more crippled if you target the right body parts (-7 tends to kill, -10 tends to be "flailing around burning, lighting others on fire, then die.")

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Exalted, World of Darkness, and Shadowrun also have called shot rules, but I generally find a "gentleman's agreement" to be in play with regard to called shots, because optimizing for headshots can really turn any game into rocket tag.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Need_A_Life View Post
    Uuh, that's a broad question. I'll stick to a few:

    Savage Worlds has penalties to your attack rolls, which then trigger specific effects if you hit.
    Headshot? -4 to hit for +4 damage (which is a lot).
    Hit him in the arm? -2 to hit, and he must make a Strength roll or be disarmed.
    Want to disarm him without hurting him? -4 to hit and same effect as above, only he doesn't take damage.

    Dark Heresy has random hit location to begin with, so Called Shots are penalties to your attack to target:
    A) Less armoured body parts.
    B) Avoid partial cover.
    C) When you deal critical damage, they'll be more crippled if you target the right body parts (-7 tends to kill, -10 tends to be "flailing around burning, lighting others on fire, then die.")

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    Not anything in particular, just information like you provided. I was working on putting together some ideas for a system (not actually expecting to really finish or have the chance to use it; it's just one of those things I do when I'm bored - I have several different system concepts I've worked on, some of them sticking mostly to d20 ideas and others branching out more and using different mechanics and assumptions) and I was trying to figure out how I could model someone deciding to do things like: Stab someone's heart, slit someone's throat, puncture someone's lung, break someone's hand/foot/arm/leg, bash or impale someone's head, dismembering someone (like cutting off an arm or leg, not necessarily full-blown dismemberment), decapitating someone, severing tendons, and things like that. I wanted to figure out a way in which I could enable a player to choose to do one of those things, make an attempt, and have the attempt succeed or fail. I also wanted to make the more lethal of those options actually lethal (slitting someone's throat with a knife, stabbing someone's heart with a thrusting sword, or decapitating someone with an axe, for example) while still leaving the possibility of a partial success, with the target surviving, for particularly sturdy or lucky targets. All the while keeping the same shtick D&D has of being able to take a lot of actual damage at higher levels (so your average joe might be worried about a knife fight even if his opponent is unskilled, your high-level character is only worried about a knife if his opponent is good enough to pull off what should be a difficult-to-do-to-a-high-level-character kill shot; unlike D&D where the high level character doesn't care about the knife no matter who has it). And preferably using as few mechanics as possible to do it.

    So.... basically, I have this goal, and I need to look at other models of how called shots are handled to give me ideas for how to attempt to achieve the goal. So I'd like to see as many different ways of handling called shots as possible.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    I used to like called shots. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu42 View Post
    I used to like called shots. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
    I used to make overused jokes that were oddly appropriate to the situation at hand. Then I ... wait, I never did that. You, however, found a perfect place to use that otherwise irritating joke. I salute you.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Classic Deadlands has several hit locations: head, torso, each arm, and each leg. Damage to each location is tracked separately, and damage is cumulative to a location, but not across locations. So a character with light wounds all over isn't too bad off, but a character with a serious head wound is in bad shape, even if he's uninjured elsewhere. In general, characters can die only from head or torso wounds, though bleeding from other locations can also kill eventually. Some locations can effectively take more damage than others (being shot in the arm isn't that bad barring a high damage roll - being shot in the head will almost always be serious). Normally, hits are randomly allocated by location, but they can be aimed with a penalty.

    Buffy has a whole slew of different combat maneuvers already worked out. So, stabbing someone with a knife is this maneuver, decapitating them with the knife is a different one, and stabbing someone (say, a vampire) through the heart is a different maneuver still. More difficult maneuvers tend to have penalties associated. Also, there are minimum damage thresholds. So, if you stake a vampire through the heart, you get to do a lot of extra damage - but only if that extra damage would be enough to kill them. If it wouldn't be enough, then you just miss the heart and do normal damage.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Anima Beyond Fantasy have some serious penalties for called shots, in the orders of 50's and 60's depending on the body part (though the game does manage high numbers, for example a check with DC 120 is hard but doable IIRC and you can get bonus in the hundreds at low-ish levels); but I can't remember the specifics and I don't have my book with me right now.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Pathfinder has a Called Shots variant rule which I am particularly fond of (especially after Disintegrating a Wyvern's head with it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu42 View Post
    I used to like called shots. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
    BRB, got to make a character focused on shooting enemies in their knees.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    When I was using the Savage Worlds system for called shots, in which you're sacrificing some accuracy in favor of an extra effect, it occurred to me that this model doesn't make any sense.

    If you're shooting at a human's head, it makes sense for you to be more likely to miss because you're going for a smaller area, but if you're shooting for, say, a monster's heart, it might be difficult to hit the heart, but even if you miss it you could still hit it in another part of the body.

    If you're not shooting, but instead doing something like sword fighting, called shots really only makes sense if you're actively trying not to hit any part of the body but where your called shot is. It strikes me as more likely that, if I was fighting against a partially armored opponent, I would try to aim for his unarmored parts, but if he doesn't give me an opportunity to hit them, I might settle for a solid whack right on his armored region.

    To remedy that in my own RPG system, I've looking into incorporating called shots in one of the following two ways:

    1. Every weapon has a damage table. If you manage to hit someone with your weapon, you get to roll on your damage table in order to see what kind of effect you achieve. Most mundane weapons have the same effects, such as inflicting head wounds that deal extra hp damage, leg wounds that lower the target's defense and mobility, and so on, with only slight modifications like a battleaxe tends to have high and consistent damage values across the board, whereas knives have some table results with high damage and more powerful extra effects and others with low damage and less powerful effects. One assumes a character who uses knives would also take other perks, traits, stats, (a la DnD feats) that allow him to manipulate his damage table roll. Less conventional weapons like fireballs or other spells have wholly different damage tables. Called shots come into play when a player rolls much higher to hit an opponent than was necessary and reflects such greater control of the fight that he can choose at-will which part of the enemy to hit. When a player scores such a hit, instead of rolling on the damage table, he can simply choose one result on the damage table and use it.

    2. I figured the above system worked well enough if you're assuming a setting in which you're only fighting humans, but in a more fantastic setting or, hell, even one in which the players might be expected to fight wild animals, it doesn't make sense to have damage tables assume a human anatomy. What use is a leg wound if you're fighting against a giant squid? Now, I'm using a system where every creature has a damage table tied to his anatomy and successful attacks result in the defender having to roll on his own damage table. Different weapons can do stuff like add flat hp damage when you hit, allow extra rolls on the damage table, or increase the attacker's to-hit modifier and a high hit results in the attacker choosing an entry on the defender's damage table. This system fails to differentiate between something like shooting an arrow or electrocuting an enemy, but does well enough in differentiating between a human and a squid monster.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Vitruviansquid; 2012-01-21 at 01:09 AM.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    The swedish rpg Eon has a hit-location well ingrained into it's combat system and a "called shot" system is thus related. At it's most basic level you can with no penalty whatsoever call to make a low, high or normal attack. Thus increasing the likelyhood of hitting the lower or upper part of the body.

    If you wish to aim specifically for the arms, the legs or the torso you can do so by increasing the difficulty of the attack with 1 (it uses a exploding dicepool system, so this means simply adding 1 extra die to the roll). If you wish to aim at the hands, the head or the feet then you instead increase the difficulty by two (adding 2 dice). You cannot aim further than that (except against opponents that are incapable of avoiding, ie. unconcious, no roll then)

    It's a rather steep penalty to add a die (or two) in Eon, but it's compensated with that good armour can be virtually inpenetrable. That means that while it's difficult to hit a specific bodypart, it can be the only reliable way of injuring the other combatant. That the injury system is so lethal also helps: Sure, you might only be able to hit his hands with a difficult roll. But a single hit on those might be enough to break the hand, rendering it unuseable.

    So, in Eon called shots are difficult but encouraged by that they can be a reliable way of going around very good protection and that when you do hit they can be very rewarding.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Vitruviansquid View Post
    When I was using the Savage Worlds system for called shots, in which you're sacrificing some accuracy in favor of an extra effect, it occurred to me that this model doesn't make any sense.
    Not quite in agreement. When I spar with people, trying to hit a particular area is usually acheived by forcing them to move their defense away from what I'm trying to hit rather than just being a targeting problem.
    I've found this to be true in both armed and unarmed combat.

    As for ranged weapons, sure if you're going for the heart, you might miss and still hit the body, but in game terms this might actually be a successful called shot, just a non-fatal one. Game abstractions and all.
    If you're going for the arms, legs or head, odds are that a miss will be just that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    Bah, if WotC actually published it then I will allow it I suppose; but that doesn't change the fact that I find it really stupid to throw your limbs at your enemies.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Another thing you have to carefully balance is the fact that if you make called shots too good, then everyone will use them (turning combat into rocket tag), and if they aren't good enough, no-one is likely to use them.

    (Myself, I simply disallow the issue in D&D period (due to the abtractions), and in something like Rolemaster (that actually has the infrastructure to deal with injuries), it requires mastery of particular skills to be of any particualr use.)

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Need_A_Life View Post
    Hit him in the arm? -2 to hit, and he must make a Strength roll or be disarmed.
    Literally?

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Shadowrun's called shot rules I find are the most easily usable. You take a dicepool penalty, gain an equivalent bonus in damage. The bonus is actually better than the number of hits you'd expect to get from those dice on average, so it's very advantageous to use it for the maximum... as long as you're confident you can still score at least one net hit on the enemy with the penalty, which isn't always easy.


    Incidentally in D&D power attack works on much the same principle. Which is why I generally houserule power attack to work better with other weapon types, and let everyone use it by default.

    It also has rules for bypassing armor instead of increasing damage, but unfortunately those are less beneficial (to the point where there's no bonus at all, just a net accuracy loss, in exchange for if you hit being more likely to deal lethal damage instead of stun)
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    GURPS has called shots. With varying penalties based upon the area you are trying to hit. In some cases, a miss by 1 will cause a hit somewhere nearby - e.g. a called shot to the head that misses by 1 will hit the torso.

    The effects of called shots vary: a hit to the brain or vitals does extra damage, a hit to the hand may cause the opponent to drop whatever is held, and a hit to a leg may cause them to fall.

    I know the WEG Star Wars had called shots and hit locations, but it's been so long since I played that game that I do not remember the effects.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    In my Dark Heresy game my players wanted more effects to Called Shots then simply targeting low armour or shooting what's not in cover, so we agreed that headshots deal Righteous Fury on 9 or 10, instead of just 10.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dusk Eclipse View Post
    Anima Beyond Fantasy have some serious penalties for called shots, in the orders of 50's and 60's depending on the body part (though the game does manage high numbers, for example a check with DC 120 is hard but doable IIRC and you can get bonus in the hundreds at low-ish levels); but I can't remember the specifics and I don't have my book with me right now.
    Anima's called shot isn't particularly complex. You take the penalty(up to -60 for the head), but unless you score a critical(which in this system is the terminology for dealing more than half hp in a single blow), it holds little to no effect, however aiming for vital spots reduces the critical threshold to 10% hp in a single blow, as does targetting arms and legs with an intent to maim.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    The Dark Eye allows called shots at different penalties to your attack role.
    If you deal enough damage to inflict wounds the penalties which your target will suffer will depend on the targeted body part.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    I think d&d can accomodate with size modifiers to AC. I'd say to make a shot at a specific portion of the body other than the torso you'd need a +8 to the target's AC. A shot to an exact point should be +16. Then to calculate the effectiveness of the shot you divide the subjects mass by their HP and scale it upwards for areas you feel are more resilient or downwards for areas which are less resilient. If the damage is sufficient to injure the specific portion (say a major artery or the spinal column (after applying hardness for bone)) then you can impose various penalties to the recipient of the attack (constitution loss each round due to bleeding or partial paralysis with a fortitude save to prevent it). A headshot that pierces the skull can cause severe penalties with a chance to kill the target outright.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Stu42 View Post
    I used to like called shots. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stu42 View Post
    I used to like called shots. Then I took an arrow to the knee.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Maquise View Post
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by fusilier View Post
    GURPS has called shots. With varying penalties based upon the area you are trying to hit. In some cases, a miss by 1 will cause a hit somewhere nearby - e.g. a called shot to the head that misses by 1 will hit the torso.

    The effects of called shots vary: a hit to the brain or vitals does extra damage, a hit to the hand may cause the opponent to drop whatever is held, and a hit to a leg may cause them to fall.
    Actually, the most important use for called shots in GURPS is to exceed maximum damage. At least with firearms there is just a maximum amount of damage you can do before you've just shot through and wasted energy - but this amount depends on hit locations, so even called shots to the torso have their uses. Also some hits force a HT-check to avoid dying instantly.
    Another interesting point in GURPS is that you can learn special techniques to reduce the penalty for a specific called shot (so you can specialize in headshots, disarming or whatever).

    Called shots in Shadowrun 3e were just a fixed modifier to your target number for an increase in damage, bypassing armor, or a specific effect. Also, called shots with the (still relatively cheap) second level of the Smartlink implant were just as hard as normal shots without, making it almost mandatory for any characters expecting to use guns somewhat regularly.
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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    I thought D&D had rules for called shots. At least older editions, which my friends and me carried on with in later versions. If you want to make a called shot it is -4 to your attack roll or something like that.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Balain View Post
    ... which my friends and me carried on with in later versions.
    Pathfinder has some rules for it, but they're terrible.

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    Default Re: Called Shots (Systems that have them)

    Quote Originally Posted by Autolykos View Post
    Actually, the most important use for called shots in GURPS is to exceed maximum damage. At least with firearms there is just a maximum amount of damage you can do before you've just shot through and wasted energy - but this amount depends on hit locations, so even called shots to the torso have their uses.
    This aspect was removed in 4e due to with study and consideration being declared unrealistic. There is still the whole avoiding armor/increasing damage multiplier aspect (times 4 damages for the eye or skill is really fun with high powered rifles).
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