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    Default I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    I guess I've fallen onto the quote title bandwagon. Somebody shoot me.

    For those of you who have read The Way of Kings and got excited at that quote, I'm sorry to disappoint, this is not a Windrunner class. As much as I'd love to, I wouldn't want to even make an attempt at a first pass of that until we see more of the series and magic system from that book unravel. Instead, this thread is a Paladin fix. Kaladin in my mind exemplifies the Paladin virtue, and the oath is a prime embodiment of that.


    For those of you who haven't read The Way of Kings, the important thing to get out of the above is you aren't missing anything important (though if you haven't read the book, go get it. It's a great read). This topic is for a relatively quick and easy of the Paladin. The intent is to bring the Paladin up to tier 3, primarily making use of already existing abilities, but bringing in more synergy.

    Paladin

    Hit Die: d12
    Alignment: Lawful Good
    Abilities: A Paladin's primary abilities are Strength and Charisma. A Paladin uses Strength of arm for attacking and damage, and uses charisma to empower his divine gifts.

    The Paladinís class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (cha), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) (Int), Knowledge (Religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str).

    Skill Points: 4+int mod per level, x4 at first level

    Level BAB Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
    1st +1 +2 +0 +2 Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Smite Evil 1 - - -
    2nd +2 +3 +0 +3 Lay on Hands, Special Mount 2 - - -
    3rd +3 +3 +1 +3 Divine Channeling 3 - - -
    4th +4 +4 +1 +4 Divine Grace, Bonus Feat 3 - - -
    5th +5 +4 +1 +4 Battle Blessing 4 1 - -
    6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +5 Restoration, Bonus Domain 4 2 - -
    7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +5 Aura of Courage, Bonus Feat 4 3 - -
    8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +6 Improved Divine Channeling 5 3 - -
    9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +6 Turn Undead 5 4 1 -
    10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +7 Bonus Feat 5 4 2 -
    11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +7 Remove Disease 5 4 3 -
    12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +8 Bonus Domain 6 5 3 -
    13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +8 Bonus Feat 6 5 4 1
    14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +9 6 5 4 2
    15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +9 Font of Divinity 6 5 4 3
    16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +10 Bonus Feat 6 6 5 3
    17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 7 6 5 4
    18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Bonus Domain 7 6 5 4
    19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 Bonus Feat 7 6 5 4
    20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 7 6 6 5



    Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (including tower shields).

    Aura of Good(Su)-The power of a paladinís aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.

    Detect Evil(sp)-At will, a paladin can use detect evil as the spell.

    Smite Evil (su)-A number of times per day equal to 3+cha modifier, a paladin may channel divine energy to smite evil with all of his attacks for the next round. He adds his charisma bonus (if any) to the attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability use is still consumed.

    Smite Evil is treated as turn undead for the purposes of feats and pretige class requirements.

    Spells-A paladin has the ability to cast a number of divine spells, drawn from the Paladin spell list. Unlike a Wizard, a Paladin does not need to prepare his spells. He may cast any spell from his spell list spontaneously like a Warmage or Beguiler.

    To cast a spell, a paladin must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10+twice the spell's level. The difficulty class for a saving throw against a Paladin's spell is 10+twice the spell level+the Paladin's wisdom modifier. His caster level for any spell cast is equal to his Paladin level.

    Like other spellcasters a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Paladin. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score.

    Lay on Hands(Su)-Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of daamge equal to her paladin level x her charisma mod. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and doesn't have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a swift action.

    Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.

    Special Mount(Sp)-Upon reaching 2nd level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil. This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin).

    As a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladinís level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.

    Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.

    Should the paladinís mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for a week, or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, unless the mount is somehow returned from the dead.

    Divine Channeling(Su)-Starting at 3rd level, a Paladin may choose to channel her divine spells into pure divine energy. By taking 10 minutes and sacrificing a paladin spell, the paladin may add an amount of healing to her lay on hands pool of daily health equal to the spell level squared times 10. So a first level spell grants 10 hp, a second level spell grants 40 hp, a 3rd level spell grants 90 hp, and a 4th level spell grants 160 hp.

    The amount of healing you may have at any one time with Lay on Hands may not exceed twice your paladin level x charisma mod. So if you are a 4th level paladin with a +3 charisma, you start each day with 12 points of healing. You could not have more than 24 points of healing stored in Lay on Hands at any given time.


    Divine Grace(Su)-At 4th level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to his charisma modifier (if any) to all saving throws.

    Bonus Feats-At 4th level, and every 3 levels thereafter (7th, 10th, etc), the paladin gains one bonus Divine or Devotion feat.

    Battle Blessing(Ex)-A 5th level paladin gains Battle Blessing as a bonus feat. If the Paladin already possesses this feat, she may choose to take any other feat that he qualifies for instead.

    Restoration(Su)-A paladin of at least 6th level may choose to use up 5 points of healing from Lay on Hands to remove a single point of ability damage or drain from the target.The Paladin may choose to spend more points to heal more, or provide hp in addition to removing the ability damage. (For example a Paladin could spend 30 points of healing to restore 4 points of strength damage and 10 points of HP damage)

    Bonus Domain-A paladin of 6th level gains a domain. He may add the domain spells to his Paladin spell list, and gains access to the domain's power. The Paladin may choose the Law, Good, or Protection domains, or may choose a domain appropriate to his deity. At 12th and 18th levels, the Paladin gains access to an additional bonus domain.

    Aura of Courage(Su)-Beginning at 7th level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 30 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.

    This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

    Improved Divine Channeling(Su)-At 8th level the Paladin's ability to channel divine energy improves. By taking 10 minutes and sacrificing a spell slot, the Paladin gains a number of smite evil uses equal to (2*spell level - 1). So a first level spell grants 1 use, while a 4th level spell would grant 7 uses.

    Turn Undead(Su)-A 9th level Paladin is able to channel his divine energy much like a Cleric does. By expending a use of Smite Evil, he may turn undead as though he were a cleric of his Paladin level -2.

    Remove Disease(Su)-Starting at 11th level, a paladin may choose to spend up to 40 points of healing from Lay on Hands to remove a disease inflicting the target.

    Font of Divinity(Su)-A Paladin of 15th is a conduit of divinity, and is able to use his channeling to greater effect. When channeling a spell to increase Lay on Hands healing, the amount added to the pool is increased by 50%. The maximum healing allowed from Lay on Hands is now increased by 50% as well. (So a 15th level Paladin with a +6 charisma modifier starts each day with 120 points of healing, and may have up to 360 points of healing in the Lay on Hands pool at once. Sacrificing a 1st level spell adds 15 points to the pool, and sacrificing a 4th level spell adds 240 points).

    Additionally, when channeling a spell for additional uses of smite evil, you now gain an additional +2 uses. (So a 1st level spell provides 3 uses, while a 4th level spell provides 9)











    Removed Features. I had originally added several more abilities to the Paladin, including a nice capstone. But realized as I was doing it, I was drifting away from the original goal, which was creating a working paladin fix with minimal new abilities. The main things added to the Paladin was Smite Evil being a turn undead mechanic, and the ability to use spells to gain more smite evil and more healing. If you're curious about the abilities I was considering before chopping them, check the spoiler. I do think they may have been worth including, but would have represented a much larger deviation from the core mechanics than originally intended.
    Spoiler
    Show

    Remove Curse(Su)-Use up Lay on Hands to remove curse

    Restore Level(Su)-Use up Lay on Hands to restore level loss.

    Divine Channeling(Su)-In addition to other benefits also grant energy resist (maybe spell resist) to target of lay on hands healing.

    Improved Divine Channeling-In addition to other benefits also grant damage reduction (maybe spell resist) when using smite evil.

    Font of Divinity-In addition to other benefits also grant bonus to str/charisma when using LoH or Smite.

    Divine Aspect(Su)-Temporary benefits from smiting evil/lay on hands are made permanent and improved. Possibly also grant at will always on flight among other things.

    Aura of Inspiration(Su)-Provide morale bonus to allies (cha based)

    Holy Aura(Su)-The Paladin and all allies within 30ft of him is treated as thought under the effects of protection from Evil.

    Spell List-Not an ability, but was considering going over the spell list, and giving the Paladin more cleric 6th and 7th level spells as Paladin 4 spells. More 4th and 5th at 3rd, and 2nd and 3rd at 2nd. Decided that the Paladin list as it was had a lot of goodies, and being able to change spells into more uses of smite evil, divine feats, and solid healing was enough.
    Last edited by Seerow; 2014-04-04 at 01:43 PM.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    It all looks pretty solid. I really like the mechanism of divine channeling. You're pretty good up through the first 10 levels or so. But after that, it starts to get somewhat dull-- all you get are bonus feats and incremental improvements to existing abilities. I respect the desire to adhere as closely as possible to the original class, but... well... the paladin has 6 levels worth of abilities.

    The versatility is also a tad lacking for tier 3. Smites give you a small damage boost, but not enough (+20 damage at level 20!... does not compare to spells and maneuvers from ten levels ago). Lay on Hands gives you pretty good healing ability, but in-battle healing is weak. Having spells helps, but the list is still kind of 'eh,' especially when you have to consume spells to power your class abilities. Most of the time, you'll be smiting.

    To address the points above, I suggest you add more high-level abilities. Rider effects on smites might be cool to see, as well as some of the lay-on-hands status cures you mentioned. Out-of-battle abilities might also be a worthy addition-- say, zone of truth as a SLA.

    Just my two cents.
    STaRS-- The Simple Tabletop Roleplaying System; my attempt at a generic rules-light system.

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    Default Re: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    For Battle Blessing, I realize there already exists a feat with the same name, and you're giving it to the paladin for free, but...

    Okay, think about it this way: The paladin is the only character who qualifies for that feat. You are giving it to him for free. And, if this paladin was allowed in your game, you probably wouldn't be permitting the PHB paladin, right? That'd just be confusing.

    So, in that respect, I think you should just port Battle Blessing into your class as a class feature. The way it is now, you have removed Battle Blessing's usefulness by basically turning it into a feat/class feature hybrid, like WotC did with Stunning Fist, except Battle Blessing can't even be taken and used pitifully by other classes.

    So my advice is just say "Starting at 5th level, the paladin can cast spells from the paladin spell list with a casting time of 1 standard action as swift actions instead." Not only does it not put the actual feat in some kind of weird useless "I'm not a real feat" place like I mentioned up there, but it also allows your paladin to enjoy his nice class feature boost in a game where Complete Champion is not allowed (because the DM doesn't have it, or for some other reason)
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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    Default Re: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    It all looks pretty solid. I really like the mechanism of divine channeling. You're pretty good up through the first 10 levels or so. But after that, it starts to get somewhat dull-- all you get are bonus feats and incremental improvements to existing abilities. I respect the desire to adhere as closely as possible to the original class, but... well... the paladin has 6 levels worth of abilities.

    The versatility is also a tad lacking for tier 3. Smites give you a small damage boost, but not enough (+20 damage at level 20!... does not compare to spells and maneuvers from ten levels ago). Lay on Hands gives you pretty good healing ability, but in-battle healing is weak. Having spells helps, but the list is still kind of 'eh,' especially when you have to consume spells to power your class abilities. Most of the time, you'll be smiting.

    To address the points above, I suggest you add more high-level abilities. Rider effects on smites might be cool to see, as well as some of the lay-on-hands status cures you mentioned. Out-of-battle abilities might also be a worthy addition-- say, zone of truth as a SLA.

    Just my two cents.
    I did consider adding more abilities especially at high levels. (See my spoilered section at the end of removed abilities), my biggest issue was I wanted a Paladin that had essentially the same abilities as a core paladin, but could use them effectively enough to pull him up to a solid tier. The Paladin spell list is solid, but Paladins don't get enough spells. Divine Feats are awesome, but Paladins have limited usage of them, are typically extremely MAD so have a low Cha, and really don't have a ton of feats to spare for it. Paladins can heal with LoH, but generally only once per day.

    This Paladin was taking the things that were already there and making them more readily available. Divine Feats and Devotion feats are generally really good and scale well, and Paladins get some neat unique spells. This paladin has options in combat pretty much always, and has enough diversity in those options to make it a tier 3, if a low one. I definitely think it could keep up with a straight Tome of Battle class.

    I mean, there is a feats that give charisma to damage for a round, to move as a swift action, to gain bonus strength, to gain flight, AC both to self and allies, etc. And almost all of these options are swift action effects, which combined with swift action spells (which you now have much more of) I think is pretty solid.

    If you really do think more is needed, do you mind checking through the removed abilities and see if you think anything in there might fill that gap?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi
    For Battle Blessing, I realize there already exists a feat with the same name, and you're giving it to the paladin for free, but...
    *snip*

    Well the only real point of making it a bonus feat rather than turning it into a class feature was so that if desired, a Paladin could choose to take it earlier for swift action spells at a lower level.

    I understand the worry if Complete Champion isn't allowed, but if the game isn't allowing the Completes, this Paladin doesn't work well anyway, because all of the bonus feats are also useless. The class really leans heavily on use of Divine/Devotion feats. So if Complete Divine/Champion aren't allowed, this isn't a fix that would be generally useful in the first place. (It might still be a bit better due to more uses of smite, but not hugely so)
    Last edited by Seerow; 2012-01-24 at 05:31 PM.
    If my text is blue, I'm being sarcastic.But you already knew that, right?


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    Default Re: I will protect those who cannot protect themselves. [D&D3.5]

    Quote Originally Posted by Seerow View Post
    Well the only real point of making it a bonus feat rather than turning it into a class feature was so that if desired, a Paladin could choose to take it earlier for swift action spells at a lower level.

    I understand the worry if Complete Champion isn't allowed, but if the game isn't allowing the Completes, this Paladin doesn't work well anyway, because all of the bonus feats are also useless. The class really leans heavily on use of Divine/Devotion feats. So if Complete Divine/Champion aren't allowed, this isn't a fix that would be generally useful in the first place. (It might still be a bit better due to more uses of smite, but not hugely so)
    Fair enough.
    Sweet sorcerer avatar by Cuthalion

    Quote Originally Posted by LoL Forum
    Quote Originally Posted by DefenderCRU
    Even with six blood thirsters, I still wouldn't be dealing tons of damage...
    Quote Originally Posted by BellatorCQC
    That's because you don't have a Trinity Force.

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