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    Default The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    I decided to make a caster class that could cast any spell. However, instead of using spells, I gave him spell-like abilities. I also tried to make it heavily knowledge based; I'm not sure how well I succeeded there. Anyways, without further ado, I give you:

    The Sage
    Many are smart. Many study magic. Many have innate magic. But none of them have quite the level of knowledge or power as the Sage.

    Sages tend to be loners, secluding themselves alone at an early age to learn, although many like to pass what they've learned along to others as well. They tend to get along well with other studious classes or those seeking knowledge.

    Religion: Sages tend not to pay too much heed to religion, though some of them do find solace in religious tomes or worshiping a deity of knowledge.

    Alignment: Most Sages tend to be Lawful, though some are Neutral, with the very rare occurrence of a Chaotic Sage. Morally, Sages tend to be Neutral, though Good and Evil are not unheard of.

    A Sage's class skills are: Appraise (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Forgery (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Cha), Spot (Wis), Speak Language (None), and Spellcraft (Int).
    Skill Points: 2+Int Mod (x4 at 1st level)(see also Knowledgeable class ability)
    Hit Die: D4

    Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spell Level
    1st +0 +0 +0 +2 Lore, Knowledgeable
    1
    2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 Keeper of Knowledge
    1
    3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 Scribe Scroll
    1
    4th +2 +1 +1 +4 Piercing Power
    2
    5th +2 +1 +1 +4 Skill Focus, Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    2
    6th +3 +2 +2 +5 Detect Magic
    3
    7th +3 +2 +2 +5 Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    3
    8th +4 +2 +2 +6 Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    4
    9th +4 +3 +3 +6 -
    4
    10th +5 +3 +3 +7 Skill Focus, Greater Power I
    5
    11th +5 +3 +3 +7 Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    5
    12th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Greater Power II
    6
    13th +6/+1 +4 +4 +8 Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    6
    14th +7/+2 +4 +4 +9 Meta-Spell-Like Ability, Greater Power III
    7
    15th +7/+2 +5 +5 +9 Skill Focus
    7
    16th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Greater Power IV
    8
    17th +8/+3 +5 +5 +10 Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    8
    18th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Greater Power V
    9
    19th +9/+4 +6 +6 +11 Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    9
    20th +10/+5 +6 +6 +12 Skill Focus, Supreme Power
    9

    Class Abilities: The following are the class abilities of the Sage.

    Proficiencies: The Sage is proficient with the quarterstaff, dagger, and one simple or martial weapon of his choice. He is not proficient with any armor or shields.

    Spell-Like Abilities: A Sage is filled with an innate mystical power. He gains a number of spell-like abilities to draw upon. At 1st level, he chooses 5 spells from any spell list and gains those spells as spell-like abilities useable once per day. At each level, he learns 3 more spell-like abilities. The highest level spell he can learn as a spell-like ability is listed on the table. He may choose to learn a spell more than once; doing so grants him an additional use of that spell per day.

    In order to learn a spell as a spell-like ability, he must have a Wisdom score equal to 10+the spell's level. The DC for a saving throw against a Sage's spell-like abilities is 10+the spell level+the Sage's Wisdom modifier. A Sage does not gain additional spell-like abilities for a high Wisdom score. For the purpose of determining how strong your spell-like abilities are and what feats or items you may use, treat your Sage level as your caster level.

    He may choose to learn a spell of lower level than his maximum. Doing so grants him extra uses of the ability. Choosing a spell one level lower than your maximum grants you two uses a day. Choosing a spell two levels lower grants you three uses per day. Choosing a spell three or more levels lower grants you five uses per day. This does not take effect retroactively; if you took a first level spell at 1st level, you must choose the ability again to get more uses of it.

    When choosing spell, check what spell lists the spell is on. If a spell is on the list of a class with half casting (such as the Bard or Paladin lists) and a spell list of a full caster (such as the Cleric or Wizard lists), consider its spell level to be the level it appears as on the full caster list. If it shows up on multiple full caster lists, consider it the lower of the two spell levels.

    If a spell learned by the Sage has verbal and somatic components, the spell-like ability likewise has them, and thus suffers spell failure chance when cast in armor. If a spell has a material component or focus worth less than 100 gold, you may ignore it to cast the spell-like ability. You must still provide any component worth more than 100 gold, or provide any EXP called for by the spell.

    A Sage is considered to have all spells on his spell list for the purpose of using magical items. Likewise, he is eligible to take item creation feats to create magic items using spells he can cast as spell-like abilities.

    When you take your first level of Sage, choose arcane or divine. When multiclassing into prestige classes, any class that grants "+1 level of spellcasting" can increase his spell-like casting, provided it grants additional casting for the type you chose. This is the only effect this choice has, and once made, this choice is permanent and cannot be changed.

    Lore: A Sage has picked up lots of little pieces of knowledge in his studies. At 1st level, he gains the Lore ability. This functions exactly like Bardic Knowledge, except he uses his Sage level instead of his Bard level on the check.

    Knowledgeable: A Sage gains 2 additional skill points at each level that must be spent on ranks in Speak Language or Knowledge skills of his choice. These bonus skill points are also multiplied by 4 at 1st level. In addition, all languages are bonus languages to the Sage.

    Keeper of Knowledge: A Sage has come across much in his studies. Starting at 2nd level, he gains a bonus to all Knowledge checks equal to his class level.

    Scribe Scroll: A Sage gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat at 3rd level.

    Piercing Power: A Sage's powers are all strong enough to pierce magical protections. At 4th level, he gains a +1 bonus to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, and by an additional +1 at every 4th level after that, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

    Meta-Spell-Like Ability: At 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, and 17th level a Sage may take a Metamagic feat. A number of times per day equal to one quarter his class level rounded down plus his Wisdom modifier, he may choose to modify one use of one of his spell-like abilities with the metamagic feat. He may also opt to take additional metamagic feats as his bonus feat at each third level, granting him the same number of uses as normal. Any metamagic feat can be applied to any spell he knows, but he may not make the spell's total level equivalent pass his maximum spell level (so no applying every metamagic you know to one spell-like ability).

    Skill Focus: At 5th level, and every five levels thereafter, the Sage gains a bonus feat. This feat must be a Skill Focus (Knowledge) feat of the Sage's choice.

    Detect Magic: Starting at 6th level, a Sage may use the spell detect magic at will.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen detect magic already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability: At 7th level, the Sage is considered to be able to cast spells of one level higher for the sole purpose of applying metamagic to his spell-like abilities. Thus, a 7th level Sage could only learn any spell up to third level, but could apply metamagic to them to boost his spells up to fourth level.

    This ability increases to two levels higher at 13th level, and again to three levels higher at 19th level.

    Greater Power I: At 10th level, the Sage chooses either a first level spell or two zero level spells, and gains it/them as at-will spell-like abilities. Any spell chosen as an at-will power must have a casting time of one standard action or longer.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen spell already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Greater Power II: At 12th level, the Sage chooses either a second level spell or two first level spells, and gains it/them as at-will spell-like abilities. Any spell chosen as an at-will power must have a casting time of one standard action or longer.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen spell already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Greater Power III: At 14th level, the Sage chooses either a third level spell or two second level spells, and gains it/them as at-will spell-like abilities. Any spell chosen as an at-will power must have a casting time of one standard action or longer.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen spell already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Greater Power IV: At 16th level, the Sage chooses either a fourth level spell or two third level spells, and gains it/them as at-will spell-like abilities. Any spell chosen as an at-will power must have a casting time of one standard action or longer.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen spell already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Greater Power V: At 18th level, the Sage chooses either a fifth level spell or two fourth level spells, and gains it/them as at-will spell-like abilities. Any spell chosen as an at-will power must have a casting time of one standard action or longer.

    If the Sage had taken the chosen spell already through his normal spell-like abilities, he may reselect those spell-like abilities.

    Supreme Power: A Sage has mastered his internal power, and can overcome any obstacle. At 20th level a number of times per day equal to half his class level rounded down plus his Wisdom modifier, a Sage may choose to make one use of one of his spell-like abilities unaffected by antimagic fields, dispel magic attempts or spell resistance of any kind.

    Epic Sages
    Level Special Spell Level
    21st Bonus Feat
    9
    22nd -
    9
    23rd -
    9
    24th Bonus Feat, Piercing Power+6
    9
    25th Skill Focus, Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability
    9
    26th -
    9
    27th Bonus Feat
    9
    28th Piercing Power +7
    9
    29th -
    9
    30th Bonus Feat, Skill Focus
    9

    Spell-Like Abilities: A Sage continues to gain three spell-like abilities per level as normal after level 20. However, an Epic Sage may improve his spell like abilities.

    An Epic Sage may take the epic feat Improved Spell Capacity, however it works slightly differently for them. Instead of spell slots, in increases the maximum level they can learn spell-like abilities of by one. So a 21st level Sage with Improved Spell Capacity could learn 10th level spells as spell-like abilities, and apply metamagic to boost them up to 13th level using Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Abilities.

    An Epic Sage may take Epic metamagic and epic feats to enhance his spell-like abilities (such as Epic Spell Penetration and Epic Spell Focus). He must still meat all prerequisites for these feats as normal.

    An Epic Sage's spell-like abilities count as 9th level spellcasting, and can be used as a prerequisite for the feat Epic Spellcasting. His class bonus to Knowledge checks granted by the Keeper of Knowledge ability do not count as skill ranks for determining how many Epic spells he may cast.

    Piercing Power: The Sage's Piercing Power progression continues to increase every 4th level.

    Skill Focus: The Sage continues to gain bonus Skill Focus (Knowledge) feats every 5th level after 20th, though he may now choose to take an Epic Skill Focus (Knowledge) feat instead should he wish.

    Bonus Feats: An Epic Sage gains a bonus feat at 21st level, and every three levels thereafter. This may be any feat they qualify for.

    Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability: Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability continues to increase in power every 6th level as normal.

    There it is. It's only been in the works for some 6 months now. Please read it and tell me what you think. And please comment, even if only to tell me you like it or dislike it. Enjoy!
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2014-04-11 at 08:58 PM.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quite a few things to talk about here. But for starters, I'll say, I like the concept.

    That said, Wisdom is not the right stat here. I get that a "sage" is supposed to be a wise old man and everything, but what you've got here is a scribe, a loremaster, a knowledgeable person who you say "studies all day" to get his magic. This is clearly an Int-based class.

    The thing about spell-like abilities is they ignore divine focuses, somatic and verbal components. Meaning that, as a sage, you could cast a bard-only spell without so much as a whistle, or divine power without needing a symbol of your deity's power. Not to mention, a one-level dip into fighter for proficiency, and you can start at-will fireballing in full plate, behind your total cover tower shield.

    Scribe Scroll is pretty useless to the sage. I've never seen any indication that you can use item creation feats with Spell-Like Abilities.

    You have two major problems here that your class fails to address. 1) You are completely unable to advance your base class features with another class. Say, abjurant champion. You can't become an abjurant champion and advance your SLAs because your system is so unique that WotC hasn't provided for it. So, short of its own prestige classes, you're stuck in the base class. (Now, who knows. You might get 700 of your own prestige classes, like the Ozodrin did. Asmodeus only knows how the hell that happened)

    The second problem is that you give all these spell-like bonuses, but not once do you assist your sage in overcoming spell resistance. That's going to be pretty damn tough for you. Since no item, feat, or prestige class in existence increases your caster level (because you don't have one), you're stuck at class level, which means that spell resistance enemies are going to pwn you all to hell (since the typical SR is 12+CR, that's only a 40% chance that your only offensive class feature will even work)

    Then there's the problem with giving yourself at-will healing, and more importantly, at-will major creation. I don't even want to know what kind of broken things you can pull off with that.

    Remember the sorcerer I made that had at-will casting? I took this into account, and prevented him from getting at-will healing or conjuration (creation) spells of any kind.

    At-will summoning seems unfair, but there's already a feat for that, so meh. Pretty nice, nothing more.

    Suggestions for Filling In Dead Levels:

    Sculpt Spell-Like Ability. Seriously, this one will never get old. At-will fireballs are awesome, but at-will fire cubes are so much better. I suggest it as a 9th level ability, with the 1/2 CL times per day restriction.

    Meta-Spell Quirk: A number of times per day equal to 1/2 your class level, you may apply a single metamagic feat you know to a spell-like ability you cast. The total spell level of the spell-like ability (it's spell level+the LA of the metamagic feat) must be no higher than the highest spell-like ability you are able to cast. This will let players take unique and cool Metamagic feats (which otherwise are useless and cost a feat slot) in order to power their spell-like abilities. It offers some option for customization and variety on the metamagic end, and it's better than just picking a bunch of metamagic feats and handing them to them. This way, a blaster could choose Energy Substitution, or Fell Drain, while a necro-enervator could choose Black Lore of Moil (if he qualified) or Fell Animate.

    I like the class. Looks like it took a lot of work and it's put together pretty well.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Hmm. The idea behind Wis casting was that his casting is innate magic independent of what he knows, a subconscious power of sorts.

    As far as item creation, check the ability description for his spell-like abilities. I already had a clause about it in there.

    I added a clause about verbal and somatic components, and a clause about PrCs, and another about feats and items. Think you could look them over and tell me what you think of them?

    I also eliminated predetermined meta-spell-like abilities; I think the way I have it now works smoother and opens the Sage up to far more flexible builds.

    I'm not incredibly worried about at-will healing, since he doesn't get too much of it, and the best he can get at-will is Cure Critical Wounds (I actually made sure he couldn't get Heal at-will). I didn't think about creation spells, though. Hmm. Can you think of a way I could ban them that actually has some sort of logical reasoning behind it other than "you just can't"?

    I'm not insanely concerned about dead levels, since he already gets anywhere between 67 and 245 spell-like abilities depending on his particular choices, but suggestions are always nice. Is your sculpting suggestion based off a metamagic of the same name? If so, he already has the option to take it because of my changes to Meta-Spell-Like Abilities.

    I filled in a few dead levels with Enhanced Meta-Spell-Like Ability as well. That leaves me with 4th, 6th and 9th levels still "dead".

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Class looks brilliant now! Wouldn't change a thing. 8.5/10, and that's considering all the homebrew I've seen on the site.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    That's pretty high praise, thank you.

    Y'know, I just realized that this is basically a Wizard who can take Vow of Poverty. That alone seems like a good fix to me.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    That's pretty high praise, thank you.

    Y'know, I just realized that this is basically a Wizard who can take Vow of Poverty. That alone seems like a good fix to me.
    No, it's an artificer who can take Vow of Poverty. (Since it gets spells from every list and can take any item creation feat)

    Still, the Skill Focus (Knowledge) bonus was a nice and flavorful touch, and a good way to soften up your dead levels without unbalancing anything.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    I tweaked his capstone to make it overcome SR as well as antimagic and dispel magic.

    And the difference between this and the Artificer is that if a spell is on multiple lists, the Sage automatically defaults to using it at the highest available level. I took that into consideration when I made the class to avoid arguments.

    Also, I'm in the process of creating an Epic progression for this at the moment. Any suggestions?

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Could the Sage have an option to change the spells they know as they level up like a Bard or Sorcerer can?
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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobold-Bard View Post
    Could the Sage have an option to change the spells they know as they level up like a Bard or Sorcerer can?
    I actually deliberately avoided giving them that option, just because of the sheer power and versatility the class possesses already. If I added in the ability to switch your powers up, not only would this become pretty much the strongest class ever made, I would also have to deal with the fact that you could swap a power for one of a different level, thus granting them as many as 60 or more 8th or 9th level spells a day.

    Long story short, I could do it, but I don't think I should.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    sorry, but i think this should be clarified: when you gain multiple uses of spells if you take lower level spells than your highest level, is that aretroactive thing too?
    so say you took a 1st level spell at 1st level, would that have 1 uses per day at 9th level, or just one (assuming you chose something else for the at will choice)?


    only possible thing that might be a bit unfair, if he can use his class role as a BONUS on his lore check, doesnt that make him pretty much auto succeed on...well....pretty much everything? it's kinda cool to have a party pokedex at that level, but it seems to invalidate everything that a bard can do. not that bards are exactly known for their overpowering strength, but still.
    on the other hand, correct me if i'm wrong, but he still doesnt have a method to bypass sr until 20th level, does he? that weakens it significantly.

    for the dead levels...maybe give him some innate, constant bonuses earlier on and move that stuff to later? like, oh i dunno, endure elements constantly to fit with him living inn the wilds studying, or at will, extremley light telekinesis something like that? just some powers that are generally more fluff than gameplay, but will come in handy at times and fit the whole "sage" mold? ust throwing some minor stuff out there that wouldnt unbalance the class.

    otherwise, it looks great (well seriously, who would argue with an 8.5 from seraphi him/herself?)
    but seriously, i know that looks like a lot of "problem" stuff i've said, but its nothing major there at all really, and this is a bloody solid class

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Ah, I see I didn't clarify right. If you take a first level spell at 1st level, you get one use per day, and this doesn't increase as you level. In order to get more uses, you'd have to take the ability again. The strength of the spell, however, does increase, so if you take Magic Missile at 1st level, you'll still only get one use of it a day, but it will be cast as a Wizard of your class level.

    As for options to overcome SR...Not sure what to do here. I thought letting his CL scale with class level to let him take feats and PrCs fixed most of that, but apparently not? Here, let me throw out another ability and see if it solves the problem:

    Piercing Power: A Sage's powers are all strong enough to pierce magical protections. At 4th level, he gains a +1 bonus to caster level checks to overcome spell resistance. This bonus increases to +2 at 8th level, and by an additional +1 at every 4th level after that, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.

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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    The ability to cast low level spells at-will is more broken than you might think.

    Wings of Cover: Total cover as an immediate action. The Sage automatically wins all caster duels, forever. That souped up Charger build that deals 200 damage in one hit? That hit doesn't ever land.

    Assay Resistance: +10 on CL checks to overcome spell resistance as a swift action. Once the Sage gets this, spell resistance won't even be a speed bump anymore.

    And that just a couple examples, I'm sure there's plenty more swift action spells that provide potential for cheese. For instance, you could spam Resilient Spheres until all enemies are trapped and then end them selectively so your party can beat them down one at a time. Not to mention being able to spam Fireballs forever. the Sage would rock at siege defense, he could just rain Fireballs on the attacking army all day long.
    Last edited by Knight13; 2012-01-29 at 05:34 PM.
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    Default Re: The Sage (3.5 Base Class, PEACH)

    Well that's easy to fix. I can simply add a clause stating that he can only learn spells with standard action casting time or longer, at least for the at-will powers.

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