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  1. - Top - End - #871
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Castaras View Post


    Recently got sucked back in. On Aszune, Alliance.
    I'm so pleased someone else hated that voice acting. It was the funniest, worst voicing thing I'd heard since... many other WoW voice actors. You'd think for such a massive game they'd be able to afford few decent ones.
    Last edited by Elm11; 2012-07-05 at 08:12 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #872
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by The Succubus View Post
    *points at Cassie and Fred*

    Maybe I can persuade both of you at the meet up to form some kind of guild together somewhere.......
    My DK is already in his own guild (albeit it hasn't progressed beyond 6 members and Level 1 yet), but I'd be more than willing to create a guild perhaps on another server with the two of you.

    Just let me know the server, the faction, and even the race if you'd like to level up together.
    I might even try tanking actually (but not healing, no, never healing).
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    Yes, but that's Fred. He radiates awesomeness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bhu View Post
    I like Fred. I shall make him an honorary Pimpsquatch.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Rainy Knight View Post
    I love Fred because he returned from the dead in a form that doesn't hunger for the flesh of the living! Also, he's a nice guy.
    Quote Originally Posted by MageOfCakes View Post
    You're chibi and that's awesome. n_n

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elm11 View Post
    I'm so pleased someone else hated that voice acting. It was the funniest, worst voicing thing I'd heard since... many other WoW voice actors. You'd think for such a massive game they'd be able to afford few decent ones.
    There's bad, and there's hilariously bad.

    I feel DEATHWING'S presence NEARBY!

  4. - Top - End - #874
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I think mentioned earlier that some of the voice acting in WoW makes me want to eat my keyboard and given that I'm playing on a 4kg laptop, that's no mean feat.

  5. - Top - End - #875
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Operation: Karrotfarmer is going according to plan. Man, I didn't realize how much I MISSED Feral. Haven't so much as dabbled in it in (6? ) years, I had no idea how fun it was.
    Operation: Karrotfarmer might be extended into a futher plan. Operation: Mastery whereby I learn all 4 druid specs via Karoht and Karotfarmer.


    @Money Making, Current and MoP

    If a guild works together on it, a Vial of Sands is rather cheap. Raw mats cost is quite low, if you have a Goblin Alchemist it's even cheaper due to Goblin Ratial Discount on the vendor mats (the stuff you have to buy AKA the gold sink). Actual materials costs is 5K or less, sell price at 15K sells quite well.

    In MoP we have the Jewelcrafting mounts. 5 of them to be precise. And from datamined information, we know that the creation of these mounts will work similarly.
    So a guild could in theory crank those out if they work together, farmable materials looks to be not that much, vendor mats are kind of expensive though, so a Goblin involved will lower that cost all the more. There may be other things a guild will need beyond that, but it's worth keeping an eye on, and likely will be a great money maker if guilds work together.


    @Challenge Modes
    I was trying to think of some other metrics that Challenge Modes could measure, other than how fast you clear. Perhaps something a bit more relaxed pace, where speed wouldn't necessarily be an advantage.

    Challenge Mode-Damage Taken
    This mode measures how much damage everyone in the group takes. It is not affected by any mitigating stats, such as armor on tanks, cooldowns, priest bubbles, etc. If a hit lands on anyone, it measures the full unmitigated amount of damage.
    This mode would highly emphasize the use of CC, Stuns, Interrupts, Slowing/Kiting, watching your feet. It would be an amazing test of how well someone can play their class and still avoid all the avoidable damage.
    It would probably best be implimented on Scenarios rather than Dungeons.
    If implimented on the Raid level, I would suggest that the raid is no harder than normal mode, maybe even LFR difficulty, but still track the damage.
    It would also favor shorter dungeons or maybe even single boss encounters.

    Example:
    Challenge-Gold Rank-10 million damage
    4 Trash Pulls, a mini boss or two, a trap gauntlet (think Frogger in Naxx, Flamethrowers in ZG) with easy trash, and 1 boss later, if the total damage taken by all players in the raid was below 10 million, huzzah, challenge complete.
    Last edited by Karoht; 2012-07-05 at 10:20 AM.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  6. - Top - End - #876
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Challenge Mode-Damage Taken
    This mode measures how much damage everyone in the group takes. It is not affected by any mitigating stats, such as armor on tanks, cooldowns, priest bubbles, etc. If a hit lands on anyone, it measures the full unmitigated amount of damage.
    This mode would highly emphasize the use of CC, Stuns, Interrupts, Slowing/Kiting, watching your feet. It would be an amazing test of how well someone can play their class and still avoid all the avoidable damage.
    It would probably best be implimented on Scenarios rather than Dungeons.
    If implimented on the Raid level, I would suggest that the raid is no harder than normal mode, maybe even LFR difficulty, but still track the damage.
    It would also favor shorter dungeons or maybe even single boss encounters.

    Example:
    Challenge-Gold Rank-10 million damage
    4 Trash Pulls, a mini boss or two, a trap gauntlet (think Frogger in Naxx, Flamethrowers in ZG) with easy trash, and 1 boss later, if the total damage taken by all players in the raid was below 10 million, huzzah, challenge complete.
    Interesting. But I think while it seems to favor CC if it was a single boss encounter (as mentioned in the quote) or a fair bit of trash, and it was the LFR difficultly I think it would become a max DPS thing as opposed to a smart play. If you are ignoring tanks Dmg Reduction, then a nuke and kite would lead to alot less dmg taken.

    ie 10 high ranged DPS. Just bounce agro around and kite. 0 Dmg received.

    ----------------------
    WoW is still holding my attention. Pally Tank has been though LFR a few times, and gotta get my guild to do a 10 man normal to let me try that before I try Pugging it. My Shaman healer is @60, and all I can say is. I WANT RIPTIDE!
    Last edited by Hullabaloo; 2012-07-05 at 01:07 PM.

  7. - Top - End - #877
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hullabaloo View Post
    Interesting. But I think while it seems to favor CC if it was a single boss encounter (as mentioned in the quote) or a fair bit of trash, and it was the LFR difficultly I think it would become a max DPS thing as opposed to a smart play. If you are ignoring tanks Dmg Reduction, then a nuke and kite would lead to a lot less dmg taken.
    That is sort of why I figure a Scenario fits the bill a bit better than a Raid or Dungeon. At least, better than a traditional model raid or dungeon.
    Also recall that just about every class has the option to spec into more CC/Snare stuff, even healers to most extents. So at that point it would also be a test of who can do their job, and sort of an off-role (snare/CC/contribute more damage/stun/kite), and avoid mechanics at the same time.
    Think of how many rogues can do amazing DPS. Now think of how many can do that AND still stunlock a mob and avoid damage at the same time?

    How many Resto Druids are capable of shifting to Bear and Stunning a mob and shifting back without having the healing slip even a little?


    ie 10 high ranged DPS. Just bounce agro around and kite. 0 Dmg received.
    Burn Phase Chimaeron says hello.
    Meteor + World in Flames on Phase 3 Heroic Ragnaros says hello.
    It's been done, it is still a challenge, and one that does demonstrate a high degree of skill. If the group can run with less healers because they are good, awesome. The composition of the group is already a part of the challenge to some degree.

    WoW is still holding my attention. Pally Tank has been though LFR a few times, and gotta get my guild to do a 10 man normal to let me try that before I try Pugging it. My Shaman healer is @60, and all I can say is. I WANT RIPTIDE!
    I'm a Resto Druid and I want Riptide. It's a very very good healing mechanic.
    Last edited by Karoht; 2012-07-05 at 01:54 PM.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  8. - Top - End - #878
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Having the first 6 bosses on farm in heroic is a great change of pace for me.

    Although we are extending last weeks lockout for more attempts on spine tonight. It will be great if we can get Madness down and be the 3rd guild to get it. (Yea two guilds got it last week :( ). Although I could still use a lot of heroic gear, I only have 4 pieces of heroic gear on lol.

    Edit: So we are discussing strat with the guild members and it looks like a lot of people who 2 heal it pop lust on first plate to down it in one round and not the last. Why?
    Last edited by Dublock; 2012-07-10 at 08:19 PM.
    Boo!

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  9. - Top - End - #879
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    So yeah, they clarified that whole gear scaling thing with Challenge Modes.
    Gear will scale down to 463, anything under that will not scale up to 463. I am mildly saddened by this announcement, but it is probably for the best for reasons already outlined. I think a 463 Valanyr or a 463 Heroic Trauma would make healing meters melt. And that would make them "required" gear for the more elitist Challenge Mode groups. Same thing with set bonuses and the like.

    That being said, future iterations of Challenge Mode could one day use that kind of gear scaling technology, which I will keep my fingers crossed for.


    @Beta
    Holy smokes, some of these new bosses...
    They look positively...
    Pretty.
    The Sha are really good looking with that black with white light coloring. I don't care that they basically re-used some models on those guys, the color scheme is excellent.
    Lots of the fights have really fun mechanics so far. I look forward to Elgalon, the cloud serpent boss they had up the other day has a really cool DPS/Healing mechanic, Garalon looks like Rhyolith without nearly as much pain in the arse to drive and way less RNG factors.
    All the bosses look like great fun on Normal Mode, though I think LFR difficulty will be slightly higher than Dragon Soul LFR. Not much, just a pinch really.


    @Karotfarmer
    He's 55 today, I should hopefully be in Outland tomorrow or the day after.
    I'm on afternoon shift for the next 2 weeks and this week, I see no reason he can't be 85 by August.


    @Streaming
    Due to the fact that I'm not raiding for the next few weeks, I probably won't be streaming anything other than D3, if I stream at all. Sorry chums, thems the breaks.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  10. - Top - End - #880
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Snip
    I'm not overly upset to hear about LFR difficulty being higher. I think it's a great way for casual players to access raiding, but it could do to be a little more challenging.

    That said, at the moment I'm actually finding it HARDER than normal raiding. Not because of the content difficulty (obviously), but rather due to the constant, scary lack of co-operation.

    LFR doesn't need the kind of coordination that 'actual' raiding requires, but it needs players to be smart enough to work together. For most of the fights you can pretty much outright ignore the mechanics and still win, and I really don't care if we've got some hangers on who are only pulling 15-20k. Yeah, it's a bit of a pain, but I can hardly rock up to a casual raid and expect everyone to be pulling excellent DPS. That would just be obnoxious (not that it stops many people from complaining loudly anyway).

    What I'm talking about are the people who go AFK during bossfights and roll on loot at the end, or start loud, obnoxious flame wars over the above mentioned dps, or those who will beg you for the gear you needed and rolled on, then start calling you every colourful name under the sun when you tell them they can't have it.

    My favourite to date was last week, when I helped a guildy roll on some Hunter gear. I had no less than three other people ask if I could give it over to them. That's fine. I had better gear than what I rolled on, so under normal circumstances it would have been selfish of me to roll on it. As it happens I was rolling for a mate, so it was perfectly valid.

    What amused me about this is that one of those three got very annoyed that I was rolling for someone else, instead of rolling for him. I told him the situation, and he began insisting that my rolling for someone else breaks the system (probably a valid argument, but somewhat ruined by the constant immature swearing he threw in). Then he began complaining when I told him in no uncertain words that he wasn't getting it, and that I'd already given it to a mate (the item, by the way, was the vial of Shadows). He then replied with this wonderful gem: 'Guess it doesn't matter, ******, since my dps is already better than you're [sic] ****'. I directed him to watch the dps for Yorsahj.

    To my amusement, I topped the dps chart for his 12th, pulling just over twice what he managed (mid 30s, if anyone cares). I then replied with 'You were saying...?' and watched as he began spamming up raid chat about how I must be a hacker to be pulling that dps (despite the fact that while mid 30s is pretty good for a well geared raider, it's hardly amazing). Eventually, after he'd sworn enough, I moved a vote to have him kicked and he was out in a minute.

    Mission accomplished.
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2012-07-11 at 11:02 PM.
    Awesome avatar by Shades Of Gray!

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  11. - Top - End - #881
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Well, another week of not full raiding. Today was it as one of our tank is off to comic-con. We cleared up to Blackhorn no problem. Spent the rest of the night on Blackhorn, but finally managed to get him down when we moved 3 healers (then finished up the instance on normal). We were missing our shadow priests who does awesome on that fight, and our other priests that usually does dps shifted his gear and offspec to disc in preparation for spine. Our raid leader thinks we have enough dps to 4 heal spine. We also did reg madness with 2 heals 1 tank, and damn it went fast. If we do that again we will hold off bloodlust until the end as the fight doesn't last long enough to use it twice.

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I had an interesting Shaman in my Strat group today. When I politely asked him why, as an enhancement shaman, he was wearing int gear he proceeded to get belligerant and insult me for not realising he was wearing it because he was main spec resto.

    This amused me greatly as I carefully neglected to comment on the fact that his weapons were str based.

  13. - Top - End - #883
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Elm11 View Post
    That said, at the moment I'm actually finding it HARDER than normal raiding. Not because of the content difficulty (obviously), but rather due to the constant, scary lack of co-operation.
    I find it funny how people can still fail at LFR. No really.
    This isn't "Oh I'm 8/8H lololol" but a serious thing. How? How is it possible?


    Casual
    Not an excuse, as it was made for 'casuals'. In this context 'casual' is not a word to infer a certain level of skill, but in this context will infer blizzard's description for the LFR crowd. The people who can't or don't wish to be in a raiding guild and don't currently want to push into normal mode.

    Lack of Communication
    It requires no more than a LFD 5 man heroic. Typically less. Yorsahj was the only boss that actually required communication due to the random slimes mechanic, and even then, it just needs 1 person to call something out. If people can gear up in LFD 5 man heroic dungeons, then by all accounts they should have the communication skills needed for LFR.
    Blizzard can address this by making the ingame voice chat system a better and more userfriendly thing. It's not difficult to set up, most people just don't bother to turn it on. You don't necessarily have to talk, listening is fine.

    Lack of Skill
    See above. If they did LFD 5 man heroics, they have all the skills they should need, output notwithstanding. Low numbers isn't such a big deal in LFR, high occurances of stupid deaths are. And how many times must one die to mechanic X before they learn how to not?

    AFK'ers
    Yeah, problem. I'm pretty sure Blizzard balanced LFR with no less than 5 AFK'ers on every encounter. You get them in just about all the cooperative content, be it PvE or PvP. Not much we can really do about it. If people walk away or DC mid fight, I don't exactly see any options.

    Lack of Cognitive Function
    I'm sure I could fill an entire paragraph with dribble about how stupid people are/can be, but I won't. It's not likely something constructive will come out of it.

    Jerkwads
    There isn't much we can address about this. I'm sure I would love to see Blizzard somehow affect loot rolls based on what someone says. IE-For every explicative, it lowers their loot chance by 5% and stacks a debuff that others in the raid can see which communicates this debuff. At the same point, I still maintain that it isn't Blizzard's job to be mommy and daddy, and forcing a player base to behave. If people want to be jerks, we just need to report their bad behavior, and put them on ignore. Don't play with jerks, don't tolerate jerks. It's pretty easy.
    "But Karoht, some of us don't have that option"
    Bulltonky. You have a report button the same as I do. You have a votekick button the same as I do. You have the ability to change play groups, the same as I do. If you're best friend in the whole world is a jerk in game and you choose to let that slide, then you support that kind of behavior. If the best DPS on the server is in your guild AND a flaming jerkwad, and you don't do something to address it because you need his leet DPS, then you support that kind of behavior. You can't have it both ways.

    And word to the wise. The reason I'm in a 8/8H guild? It's because I refused to tolerate jerkwads and exercised my right to change guilds. People respect me because I don't put up with that garbage. People respected Insomniac because we didn't put up with that garbage. And my new guild? Well, my new guild leader is a bit mouthy, but he's no worse than anyone who was in Insomniac. But we'll work on him.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  14. - Top - End - #884
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    While I like the speed with which the LFR (and LFM randoms) fill, but I think the cross server nature of this is what causes many of the issues. When its just people on your own server, (Such as PUGS in trade) the dip****s become known. They dont get quality groups unless they shut their mouth and dont AFK. On both my other MMOs (DDO and Rappelz) there were server wide blacklists. Those people in effect could not group any more, and some of the worse culprits were KOS (kill on site) and actively hunted for world PvP.

    If I go DPS and AFK, or put out auto attack DPS, no one knows until the loot roll. So I still get my chance. But whats the chance anyone will remember me?

    To fix it, it would have to be a smaller pool that your LFRs come out of. Maybe pool 3-5 servers together? But that would (greatly?) increase your que time. The cure might be worse then the sickness.

    Another option might be a metric where enough thumb down votes mean you cant que for 15 days or something of that sort? Something to the end of "was this person not enjoyable to group with?" if not then they dont get the privilege of grouping.
    Last edited by LibraryOgre; 2012-07-13 at 02:40 PM.

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Hullabaloo View Post
    Another option might be a metric where enough thumb down votes mean you cant que for 15 days or something of that sort? Something to the end of "was this person not enjoyable to group with?" if not then they dont get the privilege of grouping.
    Yeah, because that won't totally get QQ'd about. Or abused. Ever.
    In all seriousness, LFR is just that place where you have to put up bad with players behind the curve. The good players can carry the bad ones, though I wonder if that will be the case anymore in MoP. But hey, if things are too hard, they'll just nerf it. Hopefully they'll nerf LFR first and leave Normal and Heroic alone, but whatever.


    To fix it, it would have to be a smaller pool that your LFRs come out of. Maybe pool 3-5 servers together? But that would (greatly?) increase your que time. The cure might be worse then the sickness.
    Do you recall what que times were like for 5 man heroics at the beginning of Cataclysm, prior to making the que system access all servers, not just Battlegroups? Yeah, I wouldn't look forward to that.
    Also, smaller sample size doesn't mean you get less derps per capita.
    No offence to you, but I find it funny when people suggest things such as this to make the accessable community smaller rather than bigger. Smaller sample size does mean (in theory) there are less good players to go around. Look at small population servers, and how they complain they can't find 10 people to raid normal modes, while larger servers (like mine) are pugging 6/8HM DS.


    If I go DPS and AFK, or put out auto attack DPS, no one knows until the loot roll. So I still get my chance. But whats the chance anyone will remember me?
    Now, here's the thing that gets me.
    Bad players want me to ignore their bad play because they're having an off day, and effectively not remember them. Point of interest, I do give most players the benefit of the doubt until they perform badly multiple times. I don't immediatly call out a bad player when I see one in LFR or LFD.
    Good players want me to acknowledge their good play and remember them.
    Perhaps the solution is less (negative?) exclusion and more (positive?) inclusion. Just in a different way. If there were better methods to group up with players you knew or remembered (positively one would hope). Focus on who you do want to play with rather than those you don't want to play with.

    Again, 8/8H, focusing on who I do want to play with is part of why I'm as successful as I am.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  16. - Top - End - #886
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    30% nerf is on Tuesday, perhaps my guild can down DW on Monday...or Tuesday. One can hope lol.

    Also it looks like the PTR got an update, perhaps they are close to be testing the system's patch :D
    Boo!

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    With the 30% debuff we'll be going for H Zon'ozz. My raiding group (Our group 2) is currently 3/8 (Morchock, Yorsahj, Ultrax), but it'll be nice to have H 4/8. Group 1 is stuck on Warmaster, but they had him down to 10% yesterday, so hopefully the 30% debuff will give them what they need to take him out. Then they'll get to be stuck on spine instead.
    Awesome avatar by Shades Of Gray!

    I really need to find some new quotes to put here.

  18. - Top - End - #888
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    First person to ask for it will get a pm with a mists of pandaria beta key
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  19. - Top - End - #889
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    My crew will probably clear H DW in under 1 hour 30 minutes now, with that debuff. I am genuinely sad that I can't raid with them for the next few weeks. Here's hoping my place of employment hires someone soon.


    @Pre-MoP Patch
    They've been testing the event/s on the Beta for quite a while, most of which are stable and ready to go. I figure they are going to launch the pre-patch in time for the August 7th weekly maintenance, or the week after that.
    My new launch prediction is Sept 4th, which is shortly after the release of the cinematic trailer at Gamescom.


    @Karotfarmer
    As of tomorrow, I am in Northrend. Outland went MUCH faster than I remembered it. Last time I went through Outland it wasn't very long ago, it was with my Enhancement Shaman who had a full set of BoA gear for bonus XP. Karotfarmer hasn't had that kind of advantage, and I swear I finished everything faster.
    I think it's because I'm enjoying Feral Druid more than I did Enhancement Shaman. Feral just feels fast, sleek, tactical, but you hit like a bus. Seriously, 2 combo points and a finisher, most things are dead, it's been that way since about 40.
    So I'm hoping to finish Northrend this week and done Cataclysm content next week.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
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    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  20. - Top - End - #890
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Log in servers: Down

    Battle.net: appears to be down

    Raid: Less then a hour

    Why does the world want us to never be able to finish heroic DS? Its always something it feels like, ISP problems, vacations, taking a father to the hospital (the main tank had to leave after one bad attempt one night), etc
    Boo!

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dublock View Post
    Log in servers: Down

    Battle.net: appears to be down

    Raid: Less then a hour

    Why does the world want us to never be able to finish heroic DS? Its always something it feels like, ISP problems, vacations, taking a father to the hospital (the main tank had to leave after one bad attempt one night), etc
    Welcome to my world during... pretty much every piece of progression since Ulduar.

    It was especially bad when we were working on Lich King.
    And Nefarian 25.
    And H Rags.
    And H Spine/Madness.

    My advice, extend last week's lockout and just get straight into the action. I can't count how many times that would have been a godsend but no one ever wanted to do it.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  22. - Top - End - #892
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    My advice, extend last week's lockout and just get straight into the action. I can't count how many times that would have been a godsend but no one ever wanted to do it.
    That is what we decided last week. We just want to jump on Spine with the 30% assuming we didn't down it today. As Blizzard doesn't have any updates for us, (http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6080521755) I don't know if we wil be able today :(
    Boo!

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  23. - Top - End - #893
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I concur. Best of luck.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  24. - Top - End - #894
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Looks like another week of 1 day raiding. We just don't have any backups left to take over when someone has some RL thing happening. There is 1 other guild more progressed than we are, and I'm not sure if they can spare any alts to help us out.

    We did spine for about an hour or so. 4 healed it, but the damage output is just too high on the bloods for that final push, we have other strategies we would like to try, but we push raid long enough as it was. If we can't get anymore raid night this week we will just extend the instance into next week.

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    My guild down Heroic spine last night :D

    We would have had it on our 2nd attempt but a few people thought it was a great idea to keep attacking the very LAST amag we need to finish off the last tenden, which died before it can get to the spot. A few more attempts later we downed it :D

    The raid put 4 attempts on DW, we got to the 3rd platform, we are having trouble making the curruption target the hunter in the raid, but I think we have it down.

    Our tank has work until Tuesday :( Another tank has be MIA for some unknown reason, so we might need two offtanks, which we have, although one of them is a good healer which will be missed. I know we will keep the raid lockout until we kill DW.
    Boo!

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    @Sub
    Still trying to 4 heal it? Why? What is the iLevel of each of your healers?
    Also, the faster you burn the Amalgs, the less bloods you have to deal with, the less healing is required, the easier the whole fight is. Quite a few guilds 2 heal it on 10 man H, but they are brave souls who don't worry about tentacles grabbing the dispel healer for one reason or another that I can not as of yet fathom.

    @Dub
    You want the tentacle to target the hunter for Impale I take it?
    Yeah, you basically need your tank to get pretty far away from the tentacle, and it needs to happen just before the cast starts. It's actually kind of a pain to time it that way, part of why we just roll with 2 tanks and 2 heals and don't bother with anyone special taking an Impale.

    Also, protip, you know that set of tentacles that show up in heroic? We have the person afflicted run to a set spot near the corruption, but not too close. "Cleave" splash range is actually pretty big, hit boxes are pretty big, and we just have range burn the thing down, melee stays on tentacle and uses cleave effects. There is no need to have them drop the tentacles in that time vortex, it just messes up people's positioning.

    @30% Nerf
    I've heard tell that some of the Normal Mode bosses are now easier to kill than the LFR version, due to their health and damage being that dramatically nerfed. Supposedly normal mode Yorsahj has less health than LFR mode Yorsahj? I just read a quick glance on the forums claiming this, I haven't bothered to look up any numbers.

    @Raiding
    We're at the stage where two tank two heal is working just fine. As of next week my guild is officially in the mount/cheevo selling business for the rest of the expansion. 200K for DS, 100K for Firelands, though my pricing may be inaccurate for Firelands. This gets you all of the bosses on Heroic, and the Heroic only mounts which drop from the end bosses. This does not get you meta acheivements, though if you already have a heroic kill on boss A we may be willing to do the acheivement for boss A instead of the heroic kill.


    @Gated Progression Raiding, AKA 'the way thems was in TBC'
    A Rant. Spoilered for Ranty-ness

    Spoiler
    Show

    For purposes of clear discussion, Gated Progression in this context refers to the need to clear Raid X to access Raid Y to access Raid Z, and ignores any and all attunements.
    Many people herald the success of TBC rather blindly, forgetting the issues this caused, constantly.
    Not attuned to Black Temple? Well, your guild has two choices come raid night. Not bring you, or go back and clear out SSC/TK. Not attuned to Hyjal? Same choices.
    Getting a group to do things like Gruul and Magtheridon when everyone else was in Sunwell? Yeah, good luck.
    This lead to many guilds 'poaching' other guilds of talent, which just made progressing on a boss in a lower tier all the harder. You think you have trouble right now replacing a tank who goes missing? Back then, your tank would just be gone, off with another guild further progressed than yours. If he's not a jerk, he might be willing to come and walk you through something next week or so, but most didn't return.
    In before "but that never happened to me personally, [insert anecdotes about friends]"
    Trust me, it killed guilds.

    Also, for the people who complain that they can't find a group to do T11 and T12 right now but have killed Deathwing?
    Imagine the inverse for a moment. You're stuck in T11 and seeing Deathwing is pretty much an impossibility, barring a miracle, or a carry from another guild. Except, that guild would have to carry you through T11 AND T12 before you could ever set foot in T13.

    This also makes it remarkably difficult to involve things like alts. It's a pain in the butt enough to gear up through multiple tiers of content, never mind doing so with an alt, never mind if there are barriers such as gated progression to deal with.

    Yes, right now you can go and clear 5 man heroics then LFR and kill Deathwing. In the old world you could toil in 5 man heroics for ever, maybe clear Karazhan if people were still running it. Which, by the time Sunwell rolled around, finding a Karazhan group was a feat unto itself. Which is why statistically, very few people saw anything past Gruuls and Magtheridon. 10% of players saw SSC or TK, 1% even set foot into Black Temple, let alone Sunwell.
    Currently, 11% of Guilds (not players, guilds, out of more than 60 thousand guilds tracked) have managed to down Heroic Deathwing. Just short of 6% have the Meta Achievement completed. That is a huge improvement over the Burning Crusade's Gated Progression model. And equally successful was the non-gated system used in Wrath which saw much higher numbers of players downing the Lich King and Ruby Sanctum and a much larger raiding playerbase than TBC could ever have dreamed of.


    As the above rant relates to Mists of Pandaria, where there is some small amount of Gated Progression in that you have to clear Terrace in order to access Heart of Fear, but the difference is twofold. The Gate in this case is a skill gap, not a gear gap. Heart of Fear comes with the advertisement right on the box, this raid is harder than Terrace. It's also only gated (so far as we know) between two raids on the same Tier, not two raids in two different Tiers. IE-Tier 14 clear will (likely) not be a requirement to access Tier 15. And even then, it isn't going to require a quest from one to access another, much like the fiasco of Keys for Eye of Eternity back in Tier 7.
    The negative I see here is when people do eventually hit that skill gap, but so far it isn't looking too severe, and the testing is looking really sharp for normal mode. In LFR I imagine that the ilevel minimum to enter Terrace will be lower than the ilevel to enter Heart of Fear, or it might be the same item level. If there is a difference, it won't be much, and there are more ways to improve your gear than ever before in MoP.

    Just some thoughts.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  27. - Top - End - #897
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    On Karohts rant:

    Aye I fully admit that back in Vanilla and TBC, when I was the main officer in a leading raid guild on my server, I shamelessly befriended people in the guilds just below or around our progress level for the sole purpose of getting them into my guild if we ever lost a member of our core raid group. Running MC and BWL (although BWL will always hold a special place in my heart and even today I still clear it every now and then for fun) just to gear up some schmuck for AQ40 or Naxx got tedious quite fast when you were in the race for server firsts.

    I believe that most of the people that claim they want the vanilla and TBC style of raiding back never really experienced it in the first place. Sure some of them might have killed Onyxia a couple of times or even cleared ZG but never had to deal with trying to get into raiding late game or the constantly shrinking pool of available replacements at the higher tiers.
    Last edited by pffh; 2012-07-18 at 05:30 PM.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    @Dub
    You want the tentacle to target the hunter for Impale I take it?
    Yeah, you basically need your tank to get pretty far away from the tentacle, and it needs to happen just before the cast starts. It's actually kind of a pain to time it that way, part of why we just roll with 2 tanks and 2 heals and don't bother with anyone special taking an Impale.

    Also, protip, you know that set of tentacles that show up in heroic? We have the person afflicted run to a set spot near the corruption, but not too close. "Cleave" splash range is actually pretty big, hit boxes are pretty big, and we just have range burn the thing down, melee stays on tentacle and uses cleave effects. There is no need to have them drop the tentacles in that time vortex, it just messes up people's positioning.
    Yup that is the plan, but the timing of the tank leaving and the hunter being in range of the impale is a bit trickier then they thought. We had it down on our last attempt last night so I hope it won't be an issue again. I *think* we had 3 heals instead of the other tank.

    Also we have yet to have any issue with downing the additional add with our range, we have only one melee dps (granted, a good one, but only one). Although you do bring up a point on the positioning. The only difficulty we had was people thinking to stack and not stay away -.-

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Spoiler
    Show

    For purposes of clear discussion, Gated Progression in this context refers to the need to clear Raid X to access Raid Y to access Raid Z, and ignores any and all attunements.
    Many people herald the success of TBC rather blindly, forgetting the issues this caused, constantly.
    Not attuned to Black Temple? Well, your guild has two choices come raid night. Not bring you, or go back and clear out SSC/TK. Not attuned to Hyjal? Same choices.
    Getting a group to do things like Gruul and Magtheridon when everyone else was in Sunwell? Yeah, good luck.
    This lead to many guilds 'poaching' other guilds of talent, which just made progressing on a boss in a lower tier all the harder. You think you have trouble right now replacing a tank who goes missing? Back then, your tank would just be gone, off with another guild further progressed than yours. If he's not a jerk, he might be willing to come and walk you through something next week or so, but most didn't return.
    In before "but that never happened to me personally, [insert anecdotes about friends]"
    Trust me, it killed guilds.

    Also, for the people who complain that they can't find a group to do T11 and T12 right now but have killed Deathwing?
    Imagine the inverse for a moment. You're stuck in T11 and seeing Deathwing is pretty much an impossibility, barring a miracle, or a carry from another guild. Except, that guild would have to carry you through T11 AND T12 before you could ever set foot in T13.

    This also makes it remarkably difficult to involve things like alts. It's a pain in the butt enough to gear up through multiple tiers of content, never mind doing so with an alt, never mind if there are barriers such as gated progression to deal with.

    Yes, right now you can go and clear 5 man heroics then LFR and kill Deathwing. In the old world you could toil in 5 man heroics for ever, maybe clear Karazhan if people were still running it. Which, by the time Sunwell rolled around, finding a Karazhan group was a feat unto itself. Which is why statistically, very few people saw anything past Gruuls and Magtheridon. 10% of players saw SSC or TK, 1% even set foot into Black Temple, let alone Sunwell.
    Currently, 11% of Guilds (not players, guilds, out of more than 60 thousand guilds tracked) have managed to down Heroic Deathwing. Just short of 6% have the Meta Achievement completed. That is a huge improvement over the Burning Crusade's Gated Progression model. And equally successful was the non-gated system used in Wrath which saw much higher numbers of players downing the Lich King and Ruby Sanctum and a much larger raiding playerbase than TBC could ever have dreamed of.


    As the above rant relates to Mists of Pandaria, where there is some small amount of Gated Progression in that you have to clear Terrace in order to access Heart of Fear, but the difference is twofold. The Gate in this case is a skill gap, not a gear gap. Heart of Fear comes with the advertisement right on the box, this raid is harder than Terrace. It's also only gated (so far as we know) between two raids on the same Tier, not two raids in two different Tiers. IE-Tier 14 clear will (likely) not be a requirement to access Tier 15. And even then, it isn't going to require a quest from one to access another, much like the fiasco of Keys for Eye of Eternity back in Tier 7.
    The negative I see here is when people do eventually hit that skill gap, but so far it isn't looking too severe, and the testing is looking really sharp for normal mode. In LFR I imagine that the ilevel minimum to enter Terrace will be lower than the ilevel to enter Heart of Fear, or it might be the same item level. If there is a difference, it won't be much, and there are more ways to improve your gear than ever before in MoP.

    Just some thoughts.
    (spoiled the last paragraph for space saving measure)
    Spoiler
    Show

    I joined in WotLK, and I reached level 80 the day before the random dungeon finder patch.

    I would have found it annoying to go back and do Malygos, etc before I could touch ToC and ICC.

    Although on my realm there is some guild poaching, although not nearly to the degree that I bet was in TBC. There are currently 4-5 guilds worth mentioning on my side of the server in terms of heroic progression, the current top guild managed to convince another guild to merge for a few top raiders to push them over the edge in terms of getting spine down.

    The last two or so weeks have lead to one tank leaving for another guild, a few people like me trying to come into the action to fill in (yay!), and everyone else trying to make sure the raid team is filled with people that know what to do. Yesterday was the first day where we did not have to explain anything to anyone, and we downed the first 6 bosses in a hour and 20 mins, with two stupid wipes on Ultra, downed spine in ~6 attempts, and got 4 attempts on Spine.

    Personally I am looking forward to the gated content in MoP, its in the same tier so there is still some incentive to run both raids, and it won't be a drag to drag the guild in there (pun intended :P). Also I hope that means that it will be even harder and give some guilds more work to do since there is a warning.

    Now if they do not extend that across tiers I will be ok with it.
    Last edited by Dublock; 2012-07-18 at 05:51 PM.
    Boo!

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  29. - Top - End - #899
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Yea, no raid happened last night. Only 9 showed up. As far as spine 4 healing it goes, we are just testing things out, I have a 404 healing set, and I assume the other healers are about the same. We don't have issues with dispels, we have 1 person doing it and they get freeded fast enough that it isn't in any danger going off. Might get a replacement warlock (destro) for tonight.

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by subanark View Post
    Yea, no raid happened last night. Only 9 showed up. As far as spine 4 healing it goes, we are just testing things out, I have a 404 healing set, and I assume the other healers are about the same. We don't have issues with dispels, we have 1 person doing it and they get freeded fast enough that it isn't in any danger going off. Might get a replacement warlock (destro) for tonight.
    Yeah, the fight really revolves around bursting down the Amalgs and just controlling the tentacles without killing them. With 4 healers I take it Plasma is clearing off pretty darned quick?


    My ilevel was 404 on our first H-Spine kill.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

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