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  1. - Top - End - #1351
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I completely forgot about Tankspot - yes, that's bound to have the info I need. I'll check that out tonight.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
    Plague Doctor by Crimmy
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  2. - Top - End - #1352
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    On the topic of good and useful sites, mmo-champion.com is probably my most useful WoW resource. It scrapes blue posts, summarizes upcoming features, and just generally kicks the ass off of any other news site.

  3. - Top - End - #1353
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I always somehow forget them in my plug of websites, and yet I visit that place probably 4 times per day. Silly me.

    mmo-champion.com forums are also good if you want to see the opinions of players who actually play more than one MMO. It is entirely common to see a WoW, SWTOR, and Rift character progression signature on the same person. Still a bit vitriolic from time to time, no worse than the blizzard forums but arguably better from time to time as well.

    mmo-champion also runs the Fatboss raid guides, which are sometimes hilarious and most times insightful.
    IE-The Elegon Video
    Nick: "OMGROFLROFLROFL this is the coolest fight we've seen yet"
    *pronounced Om-ga-roffle-roffle-roffle, made a touch funnier due to slight accent*
    They really are the most entertaining when they are excited.
    IE-Hagara Heroic
    Nick: "So, yeah, healers, we're sorry, but your life is going to suck for a while"
    Other guy: "Yeah, about as long as your group has this on progression, we're sorry, but you're just going to hate life."


    Good hunting everyone

    UPDATE:
    Karoht is spamming 5-man heroics, drop rates have not exactly been good. 2 full days where I hit every dungeon once, all I got was 2 upgrades. I need boots and shoulders urgenly, most other things are 440-458 so upgrades aren't as critical there. With any luck, LFR ready tonight or tomorrow, raid ready with guildies by wednesday.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

  4. - Top - End - #1354
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    UPDATE:
    Karoht is spamming 5-man heroics, drop rates have not exactly been good. 2 full days where I hit every dungeon once, all I got was 2 upgrades. I need boots and shoulders urgenly, most other things are 440-458 so upgrades aren't as critical there. With any luck, LFR ready tonight or tomorrow, raid ready with guildies by wednesday.
    For boots, I HIGHLY recommend getting in on a Sha of Anger outdoor boss run. He'll drop this which is good for an 476 epic boot turn-in. For shoulders, do 'The Mariner's Revenge' in the Dread Wastes. 450 blue shoulders are the reward.

  5. - Top - End - #1355
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    So, im 30 now, and I just fought the new monk trainer chick. Nice dorf lady. Anyways, is there a specific method to kicking her butt I should be using? I won, but only barely. At least with the last guy his trick was easy to solve, the instant the fire shows up tuck and roll. This girl, that damage shield thing she has? Its evil.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  6. - Top - End - #1356
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    So, im 30 now, and I just fought the new monk trainer chick. Nice dorf lady. Anyways, is there a specific method to kicking her butt I should be using? I won, but only barely. At least with the last guy his trick was easy to solve, the instant the fire shows up tuck and roll. This girl, that damage shield thing she has? Its evil.
    just as a guess....
    stop hitting her while damage shield is up?
    Ponies not only make ME want to be a better person than I was before they entered my life, they make me want to HELP OTHERS be better people too.

    And that is a GOOD thing by any definition.

    full size avatar

  7. - Top - End - #1357
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post

    UPDATE:
    Karoht is spamming 5-man heroics, drop rates have not exactly been good. 2 full days where I hit every dungeon once, all I got was 2 upgrades. I need boots and shoulders urgenly, most other things are 440-458 so upgrades aren't as critical there. With any luck, LFR ready tonight or tomorrow, raid ready with guildies by wednesday.
    I know how you feel. I can't help but feel that I'm going to be exalted with everyone before I get a complete set of gear. It's getting to the point of being seriously annoying to me.

    I'm actually closer to having a full set of enhance gear (which I'm not specc'd for) than elemental.
    Last edited by Aidan305; 2012-10-15 at 06:44 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #1358
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by otakuryoga View Post
    just as a guess....
    stop hitting her while damage shield is up?
    Heh, I actually figured out one of the things I did wrong after posting that. I had forgotten to get my level 30 talent. I picked the bouncing heal chi wave. That pretty much ensures that I can beat on her all day without fear. I mean come on, an 8 second cooldown? The thing can pretty much heal me to full all by itself!
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  9. - Top - End - #1359
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Here's my armory. I've run ONE heroic:

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...e/Stark/simple

    Finish up your yellow quests, buy a few pieces of gear, you should be good to go.

  10. - Top - End - #1360
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Heh, I actually figured out one of the things I did wrong after posting that. I had forgotten to get my level 30 talent. I picked the bouncing heal chi wave. That pretty much ensures that I can beat on her all day without fear. I mean come on, an 8 second cooldown? The thing can pretty much heal me to full all by itself!
    I miss old talents. Diablo talent induced fevers cant carry to WoW talent planning anymore.
    Can only thank GitP for being so good for so long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    If it helps, think of me as the Agent from Serenity. Just not that good a fighter. Also, I have a mustache.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    I'm probably hilarious far off, aren't I?
    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    This is not... the greatest story Tolkien ever wrote. No... This is just a tribute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracon1us View Post
    don't feed the troll...

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  11. - Top - End - #1361
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant Sheep View Post
    I miss old talents. Diablo talent induced fevers cant carry to WoW talent planning anymore.
    Yeah, I liked it better with classic, being able to go say, 31/20 or whatever the ratio was. You could get enough talents to say, as a shaman, beat someone to death in melee, and still do a more than decent job healing if needed. None of this, "Pick a field and only that field" crap. But no, they had to keep restricting our choices further and further. No blizzard, giving us a unique set of talents every expansion doesnt make up for the fact that every expansion gives us less and less freedom to customize our classes. By the time the next expansion comes out, I expect it to be reduced to 2 choices per tier, and each one will be labeled, "The sucky talent" or, "The good talent" Next expansion after that there are no talents, just extra skills learned as we level. I wonder at this stage how long it will take them to remove all class trainers and just put a generic talent spec guy in the middle of the cities. Its not like they seem to serve a purpose anymore.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  12. - Top - End - #1362
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    PirateCaptain

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    Post Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Been almost 3 weeks since it came out, a status update:

    Spoiler
    Show
    Flowerfluff level 90 Monk:
    465 ilvl
    Still needs a trinket, 429 ilvl -.- Other then that at least 463+
    ~240 alchy/Herb skill

    Informis level 88, 140k to 89:
    Maxed Inscription
    Maxed Herb

    Dublock level 85 (old main):
    603 Enchanting (Blood Elf :p)
    ~580 Tailoring, have around 20 bolts, just need to go to Org and learn

    Zublock level 85 (half way):
    564 mining (+10 mining pick)
    580 JC

    So I am a bit behind on my leveling then I would have liked, but my professions are not that bad so far.


    I personally like the talent system. They do actually have more meaning. I have already switched around my talents on my Monk then I have during Cata, 3 times. Two completely different styles I have done, more of a melee style with things like power strikes (extra Chi every 20 secs when using jab).

    The talent system now gives me play style choices, that can be better for me, or for the encounter. This is to me is more beneficial to were I go ahead and look up some guide and then copy it.

    For example I have already seen one guide on WoW forums and then another one on MMO that had two COMPLETELY different opinions about one talent pick for Mistweavers, the talent is the healing brew where you heal 10% of your health each time you drink. Personally I think its a good choice, as I drink mana tea every ~10 secs.

    To me, that is a win when guides don't agree for a system thats suppose to give choice.
    Last edited by Dublock; 2012-10-15 at 08:13 PM.
    Boo!

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    Feel free to add me but say GitP :)

  13. - Top - End - #1363
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Yeah, I liked it better with classic, being able to go say, 31/20 or whatever the ratio was. You could get enough talents to say, as a shaman, beat someone to death in melee, and still do a more than decent job healing if needed. None of this, "Pick a field and only that field" crap. But no, they had to keep restricting our choices further and further. No blizzard, giving us a unique set of talents every expansion doesnt make up for the fact that every expansion gives us less and less freedom to customize our classes. By the time the next expansion comes out, I expect it to be reduced to 2 choices per tier, and each one will be labeled, "The sucky talent" or, "The good talent" Next expansion after that there are no talents, just extra skills learned as we level. I wonder at this stage how long it will take them to remove all class trainers and just put a generic talent spec guy in the middle of the cities. Its not like they seem to serve a purpose anymore.
    The talent respec guy is pretty much all trainers are for now. Leveling is FASTER, but half the fun of leveling my original druid in WoW was doing those class quests and traveling to Orgrimmar every five levels or so and feeling legitimately more powerful after visiting my trainer. Now I don't need to see them unless I want to respec (Vanish dust insta retalent is useful, I give it that) and leveling is so... Useless.
    All those "speak to trainer to "practise" your level 3 ability are completely useless because you leveled to 3 halfway during your last quest and accidentally clicked it, using the fancy new spell and purty graphics. I loved the tree, since I was still low level I was literally WoWed (I'm a terrible person) by all of the different choices I could make when I got stronger. Leveling NOW feels like a different class, the trainers in the starting zones are just... Confusing with "you can only do this once your level 40, shoo we don't even have flavor text". And you learn spells much much slower, and you cant hope to level up and choose those cool looking talent-spells anymore because THEY DON'T EXIST.
    Last edited by Mutant Sheep; 2012-10-15 at 11:26 PM.
    Can only thank GitP for being so good for so long.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solaris View Post
    If it helps, think of me as the Agent from Serenity. Just not that good a fighter. Also, I have a mustache.
    Quote Originally Posted by kpenguin View Post
    I'm probably hilarious far off, aren't I?
    Quote Originally Posted by Telonius View Post
    This is not... the greatest story Tolkien ever wrote. No... This is just a tribute.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracon1us View Post
    don't feed the troll...

    A pile of thanks piled on other thanks to Teddy for photorealistic avatar.

  14. - Top - End - #1364
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Admittedly, I want learning abilities back. Us just knowing them felt kind of like a wrong turn, although there are other areas I think Blizz is right in going the direction it takes.

    So, I have to say, I like that the monk is in the game now, but I feel like Blizz should consider some things they can do to explore them further. My biggest one is that I think it would be awesome if you could basically change the "energy" or particles used to fit a theme. Honestly, I don't want to be some Kung Fu Guy, I would rather be channeling the Holy Light into my fists, becoming a holy weapon of sorts. We already have Brother Korloff proving that the energies used can be changed, so it'd be just a nice way to distinguish and flavor monks to taste. Probably could be through a minor glyph or something. I'd definitely want light and fire, and probably arcane as well.

    Also, speaking of Korloff, who is the only exception... what is with the whole Germanization of the Scarlet Crusade? Like... what? Oh, and Durand's moves need to find their way into some class; I'd pick the paladin, and he could do the whole Flash of Steel as his charge and a new AoE, looking like a flash of light (I'm sorry...)

    Random thoughts. By the way, has anyone here played both a paladin and a monk extensively enough to compare? If so, how do they feel different at max level?
    Awesome avatar by Abscondcrow

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    Former awesome avatar by Zefir.

  15. - Top - End - #1365
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Dublock View Post
    Spoiler
    Show
    Flowerfluff level 90 Monk:
    465 ilvl
    Still needs a trinket, 429 ilvl -.- Other then that at least 463+
    ~240 alchy/Herb skill

    Informis level 88, 140k to 89:
    Maxed Inscription
    Maxed Herb

    Dublock level 85 (old main):
    603 Enchanting (Blood Elf :p)
    ~580 Tailoring, have around 20 bolts, just need to go to Org and learn

    Zublock level 85 (half way):
    564 mining (+10 mining pick)
    580 JC

    So I am a bit behind on my leveling then I would have liked, but my professions are not that bad so far.
    I would advice Flower to push his Alchemy to get the Alchemist trinket. Mastery + Int/Str/Agi procc depending on specc.
    My Update:
    Spoiler
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    Krazzman Level 90 Troll Priest (Shadow/Holy)
    Trans Alchemy and Herbalism max (so far procs at one living steel and one primal diamond :D)
    iLevel 467/470 (I've got PvP wrists from the Sha last time and I'm not sure I should use them. Hit against Spirit... doesn't change much but Crit against Haste another thing alltogether).
    Still running around with 450 waist because of not getting enough Valor Points the last days. Tonight it's raiding time and still 300 points to go until I can buy the Waist from the Klaxxi.
    Revered at Klaxxi, Golden Lotus, the Tillers and the Order of the Cloud Serpent.

    Other characters are still where I left them... either naked in Og/Stormwind (both my DK's on other servers) my Mage still stands around in Stormwind on Antonidas and Krezdorim is in Og with my big lack of motivation to push him. As my GF is away for the weekend (Studying stuff) I might push him a bit.


    @Sky Race... such a goddamn idiotic quest... I finished 6th because my speedbuff wore out and I couldn't really stack it to 10 because the cloudcircles just despawned all the time.

    Further guild problems:
    Spoiler
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    Personally I think our guildmates forgot why we left the guild the last time. Yesterday my GF was told to switch her Dispel Glyph to a Totem Glyph (without any explanation). After she bragged about that to a friend of us she was finally told the reason behind this. Hopefully this is soon sorted out as it begins to go on my nerves...
    Last edited by Krazzman; 2012-10-16 at 02:06 AM.
    Have a nice Day,
    Krazzman

  16. - Top - End - #1366
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutant Sheep View Post
    The talent respec guy is pretty much all trainers are for now. Leveling is FASTER, but half the fun of leveling my original druid in WoW was doing those class quests and traveling to Orgrimmar every five levels or so and feeling legitimately more powerful after visiting my trainer. Now I don't need to see them unless I want to respec (Vanish dust insta retalent is useful, I give it that) and leveling is so... Useless.
    All those "speak to trainer to "practise" your level 3 ability are completely useless because you leveled to 3 halfway during your last quest and accidentally clicked it, using the fancy new spell and purty graphics. I loved the tree, since I was still low level I was literally WoWed (I'm a terrible person) by all of the different choices I could make when I got stronger. Leveling NOW feels like a different class, the trainers in the starting zones are just... Confusing with "you can only do this once your level 40, shoo we don't even have flavor text". And you learn spells much much slower, and you cant hope to level up and choose those cool looking talent-spells anymore because THEY DON'T EXIST.
    Yeah, I liked being able to buy new ranks of my skills, instead of just slowly increasing damage ranges as you go, you could actually SEE the improvement as you bought lightning bolt rank 2. Now its like, "Ok, I leveled up, but am I doing more damage because im higher level? Or because the mobs here just went green? Or am I even hitting harder at all?"

    I think blizzard went a bit too far in the other direction by giving us dozens of spells to use instead of extra ranks of the ones we have. My monk is 31 and already has two action bars of abilities to sort through. And much like back in classic, I still only use like 3-5 of them on a regular basis. So I get a ton of near useless crap every time I level instead of new ranks of the skills I actually use. I recently logged in as my high level shaman I havent touched since wrath was new because I rather missed him. Suddenly I have like 4 action bars of abilities, half of which I dont ever remember having before, the other half seemed to have new icons, and of course, everything worked differently than before as well. And I just logged back out because it was way too much for me to sort through. I started up a new one instead.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  17. - Top - End - #1367
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    I think blizzard went a bit too far in the other direction by giving us dozens of spells to use instead of extra ranks of the ones we have. My monk is 31 and already has two action bars of abilities to sort through. And much like back in classic, I still only use like 3-5 of them on a regular basis. So I get a ton of near useless crap every time I level instead of new ranks of the skills I actually use. I recently logged in as my high level shaman I havent touched since wrath was new because I rather missed him. Suddenly I have like 4 action bars of abilities, half of which I dont ever remember having before, the other half seemed to have new icons, and of course, everything worked differently than before as well. And I just logged back out because it was way too much for me to sort through. I started up a new one instead.
    Ah I know that problem.
    I have 2 Actionbars of Skills I certainly will use in combat and 1 full off cooldowns and stuff like Potions/Vampiric embrace and such stuff you don't need often but for certain phases.

    As shadowpriest my keybindings are a bit... wonky. I'll upload a shot at my "interface" later... I'm still searching for an addon that displays Boss % in a little black box. I knew I had it while BoT/FL but since I started playing again I can't find it. I thought it was "TimeToDie" but no it's not...
    Furthermore my Interface makes a bit hard to track multidotting... which is kinda an important point I should sort out soon because... well it's pretty much needed for a few fights. (Luckily Stone Guard is the only Multitargetboss we engaged so far).
    Have a nice Day,
    Krazzman

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Krazzman View Post
    Ah I know that problem.
    I have 2 Actionbars of Skills I certainly will use in combat and 1 full off cooldowns and stuff like Potions/Vampiric embrace and such stuff you don't need often but for certain phases.

    As shadowpriest my keybindings are a bit... wonky. I'll upload a shot at my "interface" later... I'm still searching for an addon that displays Boss % in a little black box. I knew I had it while BoT/FL but since I started playing again I can't find it. I thought it was "TimeToDie" but no it's not...
    Furthermore my Interface makes a bit hard to track multidotting... which is kinda an important point I should sort out soon because... well it's pretty much needed for a few fights. (Luckily Stone Guard is the only Multitargetboss we engaged so far).
    Ah, but thats more end game. Right now I have a ton of skills I wont be using for a long time. I wont be using my ability to dispell poisons and diseases, (I think its both) for god knows how many levels. Its just not even worth casting right now, as most effects are not even really noticeable while solo grinding. Same for my damage shield ability. I suppose I COULD use it, but why bother when most things die within 6 seconds of me attacking anyways? The ability that adds on extra hp and damage reduction is a nice one, but I think I have used it twice. Once by accident. The list just goes on and on. There are a number of skills that could be good, but things just die so fast that it isnt worth bothering with them.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    No blizzard, giving us a unique set of talents every expansion doesnt make up for the fact that every expansion gives us less and less freedom to customize our classes.
    There is a world of difference between actual choices and fake ones. Old talent systems (all of them) were loaded with the illusion of choice. Yes, you had more stuff to click. Next to none of it was a choice. Sure, odd specs existed, but they weren't relevant or viable, making them not really a choice.

    This time we actually choose abilities, whole abilities, not addon's to existing abilities, which they shifted to the Glyph system.

    Its not like they seem to serve a purpose anymore.
    For this and Class Trainers, see previous discussion regarding Proving Grounds.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    I agree that choice is now more real. Looking at my DK, I have to decide whether, say, Lichborne or Purgatory is of more use when I inevitably get jumped outdoors, or if my healer (or myself!) slips up while I'm tanking something.

    I do miss heading back to the trainer though, perverse as that sounds. The rational part of my mind screams that getting the new toys instantly in the field is more practical, but the emotional part enjoyed the soothing lulls flying back to town or hearthing out of the instance to be summoned back.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyren View Post
    I agree that choice is now more real. Looking at my DK, I have to decide whether, say, Lichborne or Purgatory is of more use when I inevitably get jumped outdoors, or if my healer (or myself!) slips up while I'm tanking something.

    I do miss heading back to the trainer though, perverse as that sounds. The rational part of my mind screams that getting the new toys instantly in the field is more practical, but the emotional part enjoyed the soothing lulls flying back to town or hearthing out of the instance to be summoned back.
    Some vocal group didn't enjoy the interruption. I didn't think it was that big a deal.
    Then again, the nubcakes in town who were begging for money to (supposedly) buy their skills with... yeah. I would imagine that they didn't have a very good time of it.

    I've said time and again, I've wanted class trainers to have a larger roll in teaching people how to play. Then again, I feel that learning via experimentation (and where necessary, personal responsibility over personal research) has it's place VS learning via direction. I learned that playing Aion. Your abilities combo'd in that game, but they only really combo'd up in a limited way. Learning by experimentation was meaningless because there was nothing to experiment with. They also had some in game videos and such (I didn't really check them out so I could be misremembering here, I also only played from launch for about 2 months), but that just contributed to the feeling that the Aion developers said "do it this way, there is no other way" and it took some of the joy out of learning. I didn't feel like you did it, like I discovered what to do, I felt like I was forced to play a very specific and narrow way. Which made me greatly dislike every character I touched.
    Still, some more in game resources, focused on the Trainers, could be a good idea. I really really hope that Trainers are the ones that point someone to Proving Grounds, or have quests/dailies that you have to pick up from the trainers, or just something to incentivize visiting the trainers.

    Then again, the trainers are a leftover from [insert list of pre-WoW MMO's] and maybe WoW should just move on from them. Maybe. I hope they can find a way to make them cool again (Class Quests = Proving Grounds, just need somehow make the Trainers semi-relevant here) with a simple repurposing.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    I've said time and again, I've wanted class trainers to have a larger roll in teaching people how to play. Then again, I feel that learning via experimentation (and where necessary, personal responsibility over personal research) has it's place VS learning via direction. I learned that playing Aion. Your abilities combo'd in that game, but they only really combo'd up in a limited way. Learning by experimentation was meaningless because there was nothing to experiment with. They also had some in game videos and such (I didn't really check them out so I could be misremembering here, I also only played from launch for about 2 months), but that just contributed to the feeling that the Aion developers said "do it this way, there is no other way" and it took some of the joy out of learning. I didn't feel like you did it, like I discovered what to do, I felt like I was forced to play a very specific and narrow way. Which made me greatly dislike every character I touched.
    Still, some more in game resources, focused on the Trainers, could be a good idea. I really really hope that Trainers are the ones that point someone to Proving Grounds, or have quests/dailies that you have to pick up from the trainers, or just something to incentivize visiting the trainers.
    One thing that I've actually noticed about the quests in Pandaria, is that one of the goals of the quests seems to be sneakily teaching the player how to play the game, presumably in preparation for raiding. (Most noticeable being the monastery in the Jade Forest, but others scattered around).

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan305 View Post
    One thing that I've actually noticed about the quests in Pandaria, is that one of the goals of the quests seems to be sneakily teaching the player how to play the game, presumably in preparation for raiding. (Most noticeable being the monastery in the Jade Forest, but others scattered around).
    Jade Monastery and Stormstout Brewery give excellent introductions to their respective instances, without... spoiling the instance for you. In Jade Monastery you are introduced to bosses like Wise Mari, but you don't see mechanics during this introduction. Same with the Stormstout Brewery intro. You get to see big bad Alementals, I think you get to see maybe 1 or 2 mechanics at best, but it's really only a portion of what is to come.

    As for enemies while you level, notice the high amount of hit points and how hard they hit? It places a bit more emphasis on DPS and survivability. It doesn't force teamwork but sure makes it more desireable. In my Boomkin spec, now that I am in mostly dungeon gear, I'm at the point where I can reliably chain pull 3-packs, and I am comfortable yet still challenged. Cataclysm was supposed to bring that with 80-85 quest mobs, but the health scaling was a bit behind the curve, so it didn't quite have the same effect.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    Jade Monastery and Stormstout Brewery give excellent introductions to their respective instances, without... spoiling the instance for you. In Jade Monastery you are introduced to bosses like Wise Mari, but you don't see mechanics during this introduction. Same with the Stormstout Brewery intro. You get to see big bad Alementals, I think you get to see maybe 1 or 2 mechanics at best, but it's really only a portion of what is to come.
    True, but what I was referring to was the Tien Monastery in the Northern part of the zone (and one of my favourite places in Pandaria. I wish there was more I could do there...) It teaches you things such as the importance of being able to switch targets quickly, use of AoE, etc.

    I still go back there from time to time. Just because I found the questing experience so entertaining and useful.

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Karoht View Post
    There is a world of difference between actual choices and fake ones. Old talent systems (all of them) were loaded with the illusion of choice. Yes, you had more stuff to click. Next to none of it was a choice. Sure, odd specs existed, but they weren't relevant or viable, making them not really a choice.

    This time we actually choose abilities, whole abilities, not addon's to existing abilities, which they shifted to the Glyph system.

    For this and Class Trainers, see previous discussion regarding Proving Grounds.
    You are confusing the less than absolute best spec with worthless specs. There were plenty of useful and useable specs in almost all trees for the various classes. (It took time to iron out some crappy trees, admittedly) But the thing is, the min maxers got ahold of the trees, parsed out everything, and showed us which talents produced the absolute best result per point invested. Thats not a bad thing, but it gave the false impression that any other spec is inherently terrible. They werent. Yes some talents flat out stunk, but you still had plenty of choices and permutations you could follow to make a useful character. You just have to remember, the saying, "If you aren't first, you're LAST!" Doesnt really apply here. My shaman was a more than adequate healer in classic and tbc while mainly specced enhance or elemental.

    The only time you "need" those cookie cutter specs, is when you are running bleeding edge content and every last bit of dps or hps could make the difference. So for the first 2-3 times you clear the new raid dungeon you may feel like you absolutely have to have that spec. The other 99.9% of the time, it doesnt matter. I used to raid in classic, my shaman was of course forced to be a heal bot. They gave me a spec and told me to use it or leave. I used it. For awhile. But as the content got more boring, I switched back to my usual spec and noone even noticed. The bosses still died, the tanks still lived, and I didnt have to use the perfect parsed spec to do my part just fine. And I know I wasnt the only healer doing it either.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    The only time you "need" those cookie cutter specs, is when you are running bleeding edge content and every last bit of dps or hps could make the difference.
    (Cutting it to save space mostly)


    But how many people who are lazy, just went online googled "shamen talents X.X" (X.X being current patch)?

    I know I have, I know most of my guild(s) did as well.

    I know as you mentioned a lot of people were strict about that, more so if you pugged, you better have the spec, as you pointed out.

    But also you failed to mention that the trees were bloated with obvious stuff, things like 1% more haste, or 1% more crit (Arcane frost trees respectively for Mage). Obviously taking 3 points in both of those trees is best.

    For the talents that made people second guess, they should have kept I do agree. Either in the form of a talent or even a major glyph.

    I can honestly believe that if you boil down the talent systems used over time, that their are 18 actual choices over the course of the talents (6 tiers x 3) that every class has. Some could have had 20, but were capped at 18 because that was how many they can come up with (plus major glyphs).

    Now I do fully expect Blizzard will not change the system again. BUT I do see them adding additional tiers with more choices as time goes on.

    I can see why people like dabbling in various trees to create a spec. But it was hard to balance. There were talent changes every major content patch, talents nerfed because of some combination they did not catch.

    This way everything is more stable, makes every talent a worth while pick (at least it can be, Monk is pretty good in that regard, unsure about other classes so far, but at least none as "1% more haste"), and something that can be expanded easily when they feel comfortable in doing so.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    "Those who sacrifice originality for stability, deserve neither stability nor originality."

    /runs and hides
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    The "1% to this or that" weren't really meaningful choices they were a "Oh yay I got a barely noticeable boost to something woooo" while then new talents actually give you some choice (except for some classes where a few talents are so much better then the other two choices that you'd have to be stupid not to take them).
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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan305 View Post
    True, but what I was referring to was the Tien Monastery in the Northern part of the zone (and one of my favourite places in Pandaria. I wish there was more I could do there...) It teaches you things such as the importance of being able to switch targets quickly, use of AoE, etc.

    I still go back there from time to time. Just because I found the questing experience so entertaining and useful.
    Inorite? What a great place. I wish all those quests were repeatable.


    @Talents
    Find me any Resto Druid that didn't have Treeform and Wild Growth back in Cata/Wrath who did anything other than LFR content, and you're arguement might be valid. Find me a Resto Druid normal mode raider who didn't have those things. Here's a hint, they didn't exist, because taking those talents was flat up not a choice. I'm not even talking "Bleeding Edge Content" I'm talking about Normal and LFR modes.
    I guarantee you won't find them. I challenged the WoW US and WoW EU forums, not one person came forward to prove me wrong. Not one.

    Feline Swiftness VS Wild Charge VS Displacement? Those are choices.
    Typhoon VS Mass Entangle VS Faerie Fire Slow? Those are choices.
    Cenarion Ward VS Natures Swiftness? That is a choice.
    Treants VS Incarnation? That is a choice.
    Heart of the Wild VS (I forget the name) VS Giift of the Grove? Those are choices.

    Yes, gimpy and trick builds were a thing for a time. Powershifting, I was there. Powershifting was considered a seriously gimp build, and still didn't turn Bear druids into viable tanks, no matter how many hoops of itemization the player jumped through. It turned Cat druids into something more serious than they were, if they wanted to do HALF the DPS of a poorly geared Frost Mage. That still doesn't mean that a Druid player had a choice if they wanted to raid, or even many choices. We had 41 talent points back in Classic, and the only one that mattered was Innervate. Eventually, they made Innervate a baseline class feature. Guess which talent mattered then? Swiftmend, and even then not really. When Burning Crusade hit, we had 51 talent points and the only ones that mattered were Treeform and Swiftmend. When Wrath hit, we had 71 points to burn, Wild Growth, Treeform, and Swiftmend were largely the only ones that mattered, the rest was just numbers management.
    Sorry, I just don't see how really anyone saw 31/51/61/71 talent points as choices.
    "71 Talent points and a choice ain't one."
    Last edited by Karoht; 2012-10-17 at 10:41 AM.
    ~~Courage is not the lack of fear~~
    Quote Originally Posted by gooddragon1 View Post
    If the party wizard can't survive a supersonic dragon made of iron at epic levels it's his own fault really.
    "In soviet dungeon, aboleth farms you!"
    "Please consult your DM before administering Steve brand Aboleth Mucus.
    Ask your DM if Aboleth Mucus is right for you.
    Side effects include coughing, sneezing, and other flu like symptoms, cancer, breathing water like a fish, loss of dignity, loss of balance, loss of bowel and bladder control."

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    Default Re: World of Warcraft XIII: Even Aspects Get Nerfed

    Anybody have issues with the game randomly minimizing itself to the taskbar?
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