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  1. - Top - End - #31
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Delwugor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    Well, after I asked how long he would be around, he did say "Drop it. He's going to be leading the party for however long I see fit. Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game. Sorry."

    He hasn't done anything TERRIBLE yet, just stuff like "I am better then you, you, you, you, especially YOU, you, you..."

    And he is a ridiculous sexist, too, so there is that. And I don't think it is Neutral Good to behead people for saying women suck at holding swords.

    ...Heh, holding swords.
    Get out now!
    Absolutely no good can come out of a game ran with that kind of attitude.

    Look at some of the PbP games here see if you can get in one. Check other forums for local or nearby games. Chances are there is a good gaming group near you, you just need to know about them.

    Don't worry about not being very experienced in D&D. You are actually on one of the best forums about D&D, IMO. There are alot of people here with absolutely tons of knowledge and experience. And being one of the most friendly and helpful forums around, many people will answer any questions patiently and respectfully. This is a good place for learning so take advantage of it.

  2. - Top - End - #32
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    Griffon

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    What the DM says goes. If he says enough stupid stuff, the players go too.

    GO!
    Last edited by navar100; 2012-01-29 at 11:02 PM.

  3. - Top - End - #33
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    I'll wait till the game after the next(when I and the rogue rejoin), see how it goes, and if it gets worse I will talk it over with the others. This is also the first time he has ever DM'd.

  4. - Top - End - #34
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    I'll wait till the game after the next(when I and the rogue rejoin), see how it goes, and if it gets worse I will talk it over with the others. This is also the first time he has ever DM'd.
    And it should probably be his last. At least for a while.

  5. - Top - End - #35
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    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    for the love of your dnd carrer, do not wait, heed the advice of the playground and do something! leave, take a stand, but don't let yourself get trampled on and bossed around.

    Because thats not fun for anyone.

  6. - Top - End - #36
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    I haven't had a character kicked out yet but the topic has recently come up. My current character drew the Enmity card from a Deck of Many Things. As a result, my character is on some demon's hit list and our group has been attacked twice by vrocks and dretches. There's been some concern that my presence now puts everyone at risk because the attacks will keep happening until either the demon or my character is dead.
    Avatar by Qwernt

  7. - Top - End - #37
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    Circle of Life's Avatar

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    First time DMs have a tendency to be excessively controlling, believing that they need an iron-fisted grip on the game to hold it together. With some, this manifests in ultra-rigid campaigns (choo-choo, here's the train, get onboard), and with others there is a DMPC that makes sure the party stays in line. Your current DM unfortunately falls into the latter category.

    Most DMs very quickly learn that this is a poor way to run a game, and rapidly change their style when people stop having fun. Your DM, after having been expressly told that his DMPC was ruining your fun, told you to suck it up and kiss his feet.

    Leave. Find a better game. I understand that you're hesitant to do so, but continuing this game will only sour your view of D&D as a whole, and the internet will have one more horror story of DMPCs and "der Führer DM".
    Last edited by Circle of Life; 2012-01-29 at 11:49 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #38
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    Delwugor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    I'll wait till the game after the next(when I and the rogue rejoin), see how it goes, and if it gets worse I will talk it over with the others. This is also the first time he has ever DM'd.
    Inexperience is not the problem it is his attitude!
    It sounds like he didn't even attempt to explain his reasons, he just said "I'M THE GM DO AS I SAY!"

    You can find much better than that!

  9. - Top - End - #39
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    I'll wait till the game after the next(when I and the rogue rejoin), see how it goes, and if it gets worse I will talk it over with the others. This is also the first time he has ever DM'd.
    If everything is as you described, don't wait, until the next session, just leave now. There is nothing to be gained. It may not get *worse* simply because it is already pretty darn bad, and suffering during this game will not make you a better player. Realizing that this is a bad game, and learning to cut your losses will.

    Where are you living? There are lots of people here from all over the world. It's possible that you might be able to find another gaming group in your area by asking *here*.
    Fhaolan by me! Raga avatar by Mephibosheth!

  10. - Top - End - #40
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by Felix Nevada View Post
    I haven't had a character kicked out yet but the topic has recently come up. My current character drew the Enmity card from a Deck of Many Things. As a result, my character is on some demon's hit list and our group has been attacked twice by vrocks and dretches. There's been some concern that my presence now puts everyone at risk because the attacks will keep happening until either the demon or my character is dead.
    This is not a bad thing, it is free xp. Invest in some bane weapons/ammunition and rake in the power.


    For the OP:
    I would be willing to play two more sessions in that game under one condition. Meet your fellow players out of game and conspire to murder this and any other DMPCs you ever meet. The first session is for preparation (not planning, plan outside of game) and to keep casting Detect <alignment> spells on the DMPC. The second session is where you try to murderize the scum.

    Note that one reason I'd be willing to go along for another session or two is because the DM may be setting up the NPC as a major villain. If the NPC is plotted to fall or never really was a paladin then that's a possible explanation for his actions. This would be to see if the DM is awkward about NPC character development.

    One more thing
    And I don't think it is Neutral Good to behead people for saying women suck at holding swords.
    That is not a good aligned action.
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  11. - Top - End - #41
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    I'll wait till the game after the next(when I and the rogue rejoin), see how it goes, and if it gets worse I will talk it over with the others. This is also the first time he has ever DM'd.
    The DM could decide that the rogue and you have to do some "punishment" to earn back Sir Prick's trust, preferably without help from the other players. This does not have to be a bad thing, because it is an opportunity to make up for lost XP, and could be an interesting side quest in itself. (e.g. "You must find and kill the disgusting, slimy monster that has been a nuisance to this town for weeks." This is a good sign, as long as it puts everyone back onto a roughly even footing.

    However, it could just as well be a bad thing, if it is an uphill battle (e.g. "You're a rogue, you have to fight some undead."), or just plain chores (e.g. "You have to sweep the streets. Make a skill check. Oh, that's too low. That means you have to come back tomorrow to finish up.") This is a bad sign. My advice would be to quit after the session.

    Also, it is very well possible that the DM just pays no further attention to the entire suspension, and continues where the previous session ended, leaving it up to the rest of the players to fill the two of you in on what you missed. (e.g. "Before you leave on Sir Prick's next quest, don't forget to stop by the treasury for your reward for escorting Sir Prick to the town, and the other thing you did after arriving. No, not you two! You didn't do anything to deserve a reward.") This is a sign of no improvement. My advice would be to quit after the session.

    Finally, it is also possible that the DM treats the session you missed as explicit punishment for the two of you not doing what you're told, and even hams it up further. (e.g. "Remember to wear your magical amulets of "Get Into Boss Fight" on this next quest. Oh, you two didn't get any? Well, Sir Prick carries some extras, and he may give them to you later on, if you behave from now on.") This is a very bad sign. My advice would be to quit immediately, without waiting for the session to end.

    ---

    EDIT:
    You already posted that you told your DM that you don't enjoy having to endure Sir Prick all the time. But have you also told him that it's so bad that you're doubting whether you even want to be in the game? (It helps if the rogue player does the same thing.) This should drive the point home to the DM that there is a problem, and he can't ignore it.

    If he responds by promising to do something about it, like toning down Sir Prick or keeping him around as a questgiver rather than the party leader ("I'm still your boss, but I can't be bothered to babysit you people all the time. Now go do this quest while I meet with the king."), you should take him up on this token of goodwill, and give the game another shot.

    However, if he gets angry at you for failing to appreciate his grand creative vision, and perhaps even tells you not to bother coming back, you know the game cannot be salvaged for you, because the DM does not take you or your input seriously. Don't forget to notify the other players that you will not be back, because some of them may agree with you and would be willing to find/start a new game with you. Besides, if the DM is unreasonable, he might not represent your reasons for leaving all that accurately to them.
    Last edited by Jornophelanthas; 2012-01-30 at 06:50 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #42
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    he did say "Drop it. He's going to be leading the party for however long I see fit. Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game. Sorry."
    The DM is in charge of the game - but it should never be 'whether you like it or not'.

    He's supposed to be making it fun for everyone... sounds like he's making it fun for himself, by going off on a power trip (which happens).

    Some of the DM's problem is certainly inexperience - many novice DMs overcompensate for lack of competence by steamrolling their players. But that doesn't excuse his actions, even if it partially explains them - and it doesn't mean you should continue to put up with it.

    You've spoken to the DM, with not much luck - might be worth speaking to the other players and see what they think. If they aren't enjoying things, and the DMPC in particular, then you might have more luck approaching him collectively.

    (I once had a campaign where the players (ultimately) got together and told the DM that we were sick of his glory-hogging DMPC and that we didn't want the DMPC to show up any more... and it worked, so it can happen.

    If your DM is less reasonable, then you might still be able to keep a relationship with some of the players and set up a different game with the same people (but a different DM))

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    Well...even if, by some miracle, I was able to find another game, I am really, really, really bad with the all the numbers that goes into Dungeons and Dragons. I really doubt I'll be able to find another DM as patient as he has been when it comes to helping us build our characters.
    A little secret for you: you'll be hard-pressed to find a DM who doesn't have to help his players with 'all the numbers' (or hasn't in the past).

    The DM is usually the guy who knows the rules best, and that's also often the guy who's best at maths.

    Any DM who has a player new to D&D will pretty much expect that player to need help with the rules. It goes with the job, don't worry about it.

    As long as you're willing to learn, no-one reasonable will mind helping you.

  13. - Top - End - #43
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by Soylent Dave View Post

    You've spoken to the DM, with not much luck - might be worth speaking to the other players and see what they think. If they aren't enjoying things, and the DMPC in particular, then you might have more luck approaching him collectively.
    That's a good idea. I'll show the others this thread and see what they have to say.

  14. - Top - End - #44
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    Well, after I asked how long he would be around, he did say "Drop it. He's going to be leading the party for however long I see fit. Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game. Sorry."


    He hasn't done anything TERRIBLE yet, just stuff like "I am better then you, you, you, you, especially YOU, you, you..."

    And he is a ridiculous sexist, too, so there is that. And I don't think it is Neutral Good to behead people for saying women suck at holding swords.

    ...Heh, holding swords.
    Oh? Yeah, run. This guy sounds terrible. Not the char, the GM. This game sounds like his personal power fantasy, not a fun thing where everyone gets to, yknow, actually play.

    The whole "I'm in charge" thing is a bit ridiculous. If that's your only reason as a GM for justifying things, you're probably doing it wrong. And if he's got no players, well, he can be in charge of playing with himself.
    Last edited by Tyndmyr; 2012-01-30 at 09:25 AM.
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  15. - Top - End - #45
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Admittedly most GMs start out pretty bad. They grow with experience and if you can give him a few years he might* manage better. That said, you guys may want to try having someone else run the next adventure.

    *Bagel Inc. does not offer extended guarantee policy on predictions or prophesies. Attempts to establish life status on the cat voids warranty.

  16. - Top - End - #46
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyndmyr View Post
    The whole "I'm in charge" thing is a bit ridiculous. If that's your only reason as a GM for justifying things, you're probably doing it wrong. And if he's got no players, well, he can be in charge of playing with himself.
    What he's doing is writing a book, instead of playing a game. He doesn't need other people do that; he just doesn't realize it yet.

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    HalfOrcPirate

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Sounds to me like an inexperienced and insecure GM. He has already noticed that players will always try to derail his finely crafted plot, but hasn't learned yet that they will only try harder if he does anything to prevent it, and that the only fun way to deal with it is being ready to improvise (or with some groups, kindly asking them out of character to follow the plot here). Most GMs go through this phase, and some will eventually get better. This doesn't mean you should continue to let them run the game - they can learn while being a player as well. My advice would be to get another player to run the game (if they are just as pissed as you are, this should be easy), or even learn the rules and DM yourself. It isn't that hard, and having to look up some rules now and then (or improvising something on the spot and looking it up later) is perfectly OK - even the best GMs do it occasionally.
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  18. - Top - End - #48
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    GreataxeFighterGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    It sounds like you're the audience in his solo adventure.

    That said, many GMs start out bad. It's a skill you have to learn. I've probably also done plenty of attrocious things in my games, and not even as a first-time GM. That said, rejecting player input will make it very hard for him to learn.

    Perhaps you should direct the GM to this forum, so he can get some good suggestions here. Or try to discuss it a bit more with him. Or just run. It's not impossible that it will improve, but there are a lot, a lot of bad signs here. And for an online game with strangers, instead of a game with good friends, it might not be worth the investment.

    But if he wants to improve, there's really one vital GM lesson that he needs to learn. Perhaps the most important rule of all: the PCs are the protagonists of the story. They need to shine. The GM only does the supporting cast.

  19. - Top - End - #49
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    NecromancerGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Buy him a DM-guide. It seems he makes a lot classic and unforgivable mistakes, and refuses to acknowledge he is wrong. D&D simply does not work that way, it's about the players, and everyone with even the tiniest bit of DM experience should know this.
    I think I would ask the other players to start a new campaign with you(I can't imagine they are having fun either). Let the DM join as a player if he's not too pissed. If one of your players is an experienced DM, let him be DM and ask your current DM to watch and learn.

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    SwashbucklerGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Find a fun game. That's what you're playing for.

    If this isn't the fun game, then keep looking.

  21. - Top - End - #51
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    You mentioned your DM is new, this is important. It's likely he's trying to attain authority over the group, he wants to avoid being taken advantage of and bossed around by his players. Many new DMs struggle with this because if you don't have authority there are be players who will make it hard to run a game (intentionally or otherwise).

    I wouldn't worry about the NPC too much, it sounds like he's simply there for story reasons (of which the DM seems very attached to). I'd keep a wary eye on what happens (ie: see if the Paladin does anything unfair) but if the only real problem is the Paladin is a jerk then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, you'll likely get to kill him later so it's a bonus.

    I mean, if my players threatened to quit every time an NPC wasn't nice to them I'd have no players.

    Also, don't go plotting to kill any DMPC, that's meta gaming and very bad meta gaming at that.

  22. - Top - End - #52
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    If the pally doesn't show himself to be the protagonist soon, or in some other way leaves you alone, I too suggest you leave sooner rather than later. Give it a couple more sessions, and make the final call. Long term exposure to this type of DMing might sour you on rollplaying in general, and that would be a shame.

    You might want to start preliminary probes in your community now, just to see what is out there. Are you playing by Skype because these people are your friends and live far apart, or out of neccesity due to your location?

    Your curent DM sounds, well, young. A sign of maturity is the ability to admit a mistake, swallow your pride a bit, and take corrective actions. You absolutely should contact the other players and ask what their feelings are.

    Question: Is he your only DM? Or do you all take turns DMing? My group of four takes turns, switching every few months, and we all have vastly different ways of DMing. But on the end, we all ask each other, 'What did you like, not like, and what would you change?' Not that we always listen to what is said, but we always ask...

  23. - Top - End - #53
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by DarkEricDraven View Post
    Well, after I asked how long he would be around, he did say "Drop it. He's going to be leading the party for however long I see fit. Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game. Sorry."
    It's probably a good time for a new GM. If you'd received an answer like "This guy is only going to be around until all the PCs get out, at which point he is likely to become an antagonist. It depends on what you guys choose to do." there would be hope for the game. "Whether you like it or not, I'm in charge of this game." is a gigantic red flag.
    Fudge Assistant in the Playground.

  24. - Top - End - #54
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    ElfWarriorGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipex View Post
    but if the only real problem is the Paladin is a jerk then you have nothing to worry about.
    The Paladin being a jerk is not the real issue here.

    The issue is that the Paladin NPC (who is also the party leader) expelled two PCs from the party for arguing with him. Also, the players don't get to play on the next session, since the Paladin NPC will not allow their characters anywhere near the party. The DM specifically disallowed the players to have their characters secretly follow the party to let them help out against the next dangerous encounter.
    They are only welcome on the session after that, since that is when the current quest will have ended. Also, the NPC Paladin will still be around for the next adventure, and will still be acting as the party leader.

    At least, that is how I read the original poster's various comments in this thread.

  25. - Top - End - #55
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    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by Sipex View Post
    You mentioned your DM is new, this is important. It's likely he's trying to attain authority over the group, he wants to avoid being taken advantage of and bossed around by his players. Many new DMs struggle with this because if you don't have authority there are be players who will make it hard to run a game (intentionally or otherwise).

    I wouldn't worry about the NPC too much, it sounds like he's simply there for story reasons (of which the DM seems very attached to). I'd keep a wary eye on what happens (ie: see if the Paladin does anything unfair) but if the only real problem is the Paladin is a jerk then you have nothing to worry about. In fact, you'll likely get to kill him later so it's a bonus.

    I mean, if my players threatened to quit every time an NPC wasn't nice to them I'd have no players.

    Also, don't go plotting to kill any DMPC, that's meta gaming and very bad meta gaming at that.
    I dunno. It seems to me the problem lies more in how the DM responded to the OP's questions than the fact that an NPC is bossing the PCs around. It probably is, as you say, based on the fact he is new to DMing, and thus is perhaps scared/concerned/paranoid about how the adventure will proceed without a babysitter, but if this doesn't get taken care of soon...well, what is the point in playing a game that is not enjoyable? If going to the table feels more like a chore than like you are on your way to have a good time, and the person responsible is not open to change....

  26. - Top - End - #56
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    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    If the pally doesn't show himself to be the protagonist soon, or in some other way leaves you alone, I too suggest you leave sooner rather than later. Give it a couple more sessions, and make the final call. Long term exposure to this type of DMing might sour you on rollplaying in general, and that would be a shame.

    You might want to start preliminary probes in your community now, just to see what is out there. Are you playing by Skype because these people are your friends and live far apart, or out of neccesity due to your location?

    Your curent DM sounds, well, young. A sign of maturity is the ability to admit a mistake, swallow your pride a bit, and take corrective actions. You absolutely should contact the other players and ask what their feelings are.

    Question: Is he your only DM? Or do you all take turns DMing? My group of four takes turns, switching every few months, and we all have vastly different ways of DMing. But on the end, we all ask each other, 'What did you like, not like, and what would you change?' Not that we always listen to what is said, but we always ask...
    It's on Skype because the only person I knew with even a vague interest, my older cousin, moved quite a ways from me. Besides, this is mostly free. No minis! And yes, he is the only DM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jornophelanthas View Post
    The Paladin being a jerk is not the real issue here.

    The issue is that the Paladin NPC (who is also the party leader) expelled two PCs from the party for arguing with him. Also, the players don't get to play on the next session, since the Paladin NPC will not allow their characters anywhere near the party. The DM specifically disallowed the players to have their characters secretly follow the party to let them help out against the next dangerous encounter.
    They are only welcome on the session after that, since that is when the current quest will have ended. Also, the NPC Paladin will still be around for the next adventure, and will still be acting as the party leader.

    At least, that is how I read the original poster's various comments in this thread.
    That is correct, yes, though I do not know for sure how long the Paladin will stay. Also, the "the quest" we're missing out on isn't technically important (we just get to the city we are going to later, missing out on any XP and such gained in between now and then).

    Also, now that I think about it, that doesn't make any sense. Sir Prick said(more or less) "You are evil and disruptive and I can not associate with you so go by caravan"(the DM's basis for evil was my character snickering when the cleric was hit by a fireball, but I think he had me confused with the ranger or somebody). So...why are we allowed to rejoin AT ALL? The punishment was just making us late. In universe, it makes no sense! That would just be a determent to his own goals if he wants us along for the whole ride. I mean, maybe Sir Prick just won't be around, but if that was the case, why didn't the DM say so when I asked?

    *is confused*
    Last edited by DarkEricDraven; 2012-01-30 at 04:45 PM.

  27. - Top - End - #57
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    Dr. Yes's Avatar

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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Basically everything you've said about the game and your interactions with the DM point to him being a huge douche. The only reason this could possibly be a hard decision would be if you had no other realistic choices for games or gaming groups...but that's not true. Find another Skype game, or start your own! Join a PbP! Link up through a local gaming shop! If you don't make a decision, the situation will only get worse. Your bad DM isn't going to fix himself, and you're already on his poop list.

  28. - Top - End - #58
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    d13's Avatar

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    Jan 2009
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Get out of there, and get out of there quickly.

    Your DM is, basically, telling you "you don't do as I say, so you can't have "fun" ".
    Everybody was new at some point, and we all made (and still make) mistakes, but the red flag this kind of attitude towards players should trigger, is the size of the Empire State (minimum)
    Characters:
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    Ast, Binder - All That Glitters Deceased.

    Elaine Silverwind - New Cyre

    Thanks Mr. Saturn for the awesome Pokeatar

  29. - Top - End - #59
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
     
    The Glyphstone's Avatar

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    Feb 2005
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Leave now. Please, we're begging you. This isn't a red flag, the flag is red because it's on fire screaming with the agony of a thousand tortured souls who decided to give an awful DM 'a second chance'. Bail out of the game with the rogue, tell the other players explicitly why - probably privately or via email, so the DM can't interrupt.
    Quote Originally Posted by GungHo, on Battletech
    The Atlas is also goofy but it has that whole "Stay Puft Marshmallow Man" menacing smile thing going for it. The guy who drew that one up was obviously taken to the Nutcracker when he was a child... and he was screaming in terror the entire time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enterti, Cogidubnus
    Glyphstone, out of all the playground I think you scare me the most...
    Quote Originally Posted by Zombimode
    Glyphstone, you are an evil person :D

  30. - Top - End - #60
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Arraxis's Avatar

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    Feb 2006
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    Default Re: Getting kicked out of the party

    Have you asked the DM why he wants to use Sir Prick for an indefinite amount of time? How he feels that he is adding to the game? He seems to be particularly attached to the character, and I wonder just what he sees in him. Although, I agree with everyone else that you should leave. I'm sure there are lots of people here on the LFG forums who would love to have a player as patient and tolerant as you join their game.
    In the name of the Back-Alley Alliance! This hand of mine is stained deep red! It sadly cries out to reach his heart! Take this, my love and my anger, all in one blow!! Sorrowful Fist!!! Dead End!!!!
    Yumizuka Satsuki - Isn't it sad, Sacchin?

    Satsuki avatar by Elder Tsofu

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