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    Default Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    I've never much cared for the way Cure, Heal, Inflict and Harm work. Sure, they work, but they just never seemed appropriate to me. Then I started thinking about them in Ziegander's thread on reworking the Wizard, and the conversation there gave me an idea for how to rework them. Thus, without further ado, my rework of curing and inflicting magic.

    Cure Trivial Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Clr 0, Drd 0
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1 point of damage per caster level (maximum 5 caster levels/5HP).

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Light Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 1, Clr 1, Drd 1, Healing 1, Pal 1, Rgr 2
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 2 points of damage per caster level (maximum 5 caster levels/10HP) plus your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers one point of temporary ability penalty per two caster levels (maximum 5 points) to one stat of the caster's choosing.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Intermediate Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 2, Clr 2, Drd 3, Healing 2, Pal 3, Rgr 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 3 points of damage per caster level (maximum 10 caster levels/30HP) plus twice your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers one point of temporary ability damage per two caster levels (maximum 5 points) and recovers fatigue (or improves exhaustion to fatigue).

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Serious Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 3, Clr 3, Drd 4, Pal 4, Rgr 4, Healing 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 4 points of damage per caster level (maximum 15 caster levels/60HP) plus three times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers one point of temporary ability damage per two caster levels (maximum 7 points), and recovers fatigue (or improves exhaustion to fatigue) or one of the following: nauseated, sickened, shaken, or dazzled.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Extensive Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 4, Clr 4, Drd 5, Healing 4
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 5 points of damage per caster level (maximum 20 caster levels/100HP) plus four times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers all temporary ability damage, up to one point of permanent damage per two caster levels (maximum 10 points), and up to two of the following: nauseated, exhaustion, fatigue, sickened, shaken, dazzled, dazed, deafened, blinded, or stunned. It also dispels all negative levels from the creature touched.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Brutal Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 5, Clr 5, Drd 6
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 6 points of damage per caster level (maximum 25 caster levels/150HP) plus five times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers all temporary ability damage, up to one point of permanent damage per caster levels (maximum 25 points), and up to two of the following: nauseated, exhaustion, fatigue, sickened, shaken, dazzled, dazed, deafened, blinded, or stunned. It also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained. The drained level is restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is equal to or less than one day per caster level.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Critical Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Brd 6, Clr 6, Drd 7, Healing 6
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 7 points of damage per caster level (maximum 30 caster levels/210HP) plus six times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers all temporary ability damage, up to one point of permanent damage per caster levels (maximum 30 points), and up to three of the following: blinded, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, shaken, sickened, or stunned. It also dispels negative levels and restores one experience level to a creature who has had a level drained. The drained level is restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is equal to or less than one day per caster level.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Mortal Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Clr 7, Drd 8
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 8 points of damage per caster level (maximum 35 caster levels/280HP) plus seven times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers all temporary ability damage, up to one point of permanent damage per caster levels (maximum 35 points), and up to four of the following: blinded, confusion, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, exhausted, fatigued, frightened, insanity, nauseated, poisoned, shaken, sickened, or stunned. It also dispels all negative levels afflicting the healed creature. The drained levels are restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is no more than one week per caster level.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Cure Dire Wounds
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Clr 8, Drd 9
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half (harmless); see text
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless); see text

    When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 10 points of damage per caster level (maximum 40 caster levels/400HP) plus eight times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    This spell also recovers all ability damage, and up to six of the following: blinded, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, frightened, insanity, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, poisoned, shaken, sickened, staggered, or stunned. It also dispels all negative levels afflicting the healed creature. The drained levels are restored only if the time since the creature lost the level is no more than one week per caster level.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell deals damage to them instead of curing their wounds. An undead creature can apply spell resistance, and can attempt a Will save to take half damage.

    Heal
    Conjuration (Healing)
    Level: Clr 9, Healing 9
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
    Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

    Heal enables you to channel positive energy into a creature to wipe away injury and afflictions. It immediately ends any and all of the following adverse conditions affecting the target: ability damage, ability drain, blinded, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, frightened, insanity, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, petrified, poisoned, shaken, sickened, staggered, stunned. It also cures 15 hit points of damage per level of the caster (uncapped) plus nine times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Heal also removes all negative levels, restores permanently drained levels, and restores permanently drained ability score points.

    If used against an undead creature, Heal instead acts like Harm.

    Inflict Trivial Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 0
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 1 point of damage point per caster level (maximum 5 caster levels/5HP).

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Light Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 1, Destruction 1
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 2 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 5 caster levels/10HP) plus your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Intermediate Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 2
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 3 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 10 caster levels/30HP) plus twice your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Serious Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 3
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 4 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 15 caster levels/60HP) plus three times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Extensive Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 4, Destruction 4
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 5 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 20 caster levels/100HP) plus four times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Brutal Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 5
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 6 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 25 caster levels/150HP) plus five times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Critical Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 6, Destruction 6
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 7 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 30 caster levels/210HP) plus six times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Mortal Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 7
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 8 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 35 caster levels/280HP) plus seven times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Inflict Dire Wounds
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 8
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 10 points of damage point per caster level (maximum 40 caster levels/400HP) plus eight times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it.

    Harm
    Necromancy
    Level: Clr 9
    Components: V, S, DF
    Casting Time: 1 standard action
    Range: Touch
    Target: Creature touched
    Duration: Instantaneous
    Saving Throw: Will half, Fort negates (see text)
    Spell Resistance: Yes

    Harm charges a subject with negative energy that deals 15 points of damage per caster level (uncapped) plus nine times your primary spellcasting ability modifier.

    The target becomes stunned for one round, and blinded, confused, deafened, nauseated, and shaken for one round per caster level. A successful Fortitude save reduces this to sickened and dazed for one round instead.

    If used on an undead creature, Harm acts like Heal.
    _________________________

    There, I think that covers everything nicely. I don't think I need to post mass versions here, do I? Anyways, this makes the Cure and Inflict spells more powerful, and gives Heal and Harm a boost as well. I also added divine focus to the list of required components for all these spells as well.

    So what do people think? PEACH it up!

    EDIT: Added new levels! The Cure and Inflict chains now go all the way from 0th level to 8th level, with Heal and Harm now the mightiest of spells at 9th level.

    EDIT 2: Table added for simplicity. Also, those looking for mass versions of the spells can simply add Mass Spell to these. These spells should be increased 4 levels for Mass versions, as they are touch spells.
    Last edited by Noctis Vigil; 2012-02-01 at 03:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    These all look interesting, but we need more heal and inflict spells too, not just different ones! If you're going to homebrew something, you should homebrew it all the way! How about inflict devastating wounds at 7th? Or inflict massive wounds at 8th? And topping it off with inflict mortal wounds at 9th? (Something like 20 points of damage per caster level plus 8 times your Wisdom modifier?)

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Your wish is my command! Give me but a few minutes, I shall change things up a bit.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    also, why are they still conjuration? necromancy is the name of the game my friend. even evocation is better. But for the love of god, stop letting conjuration the only school that matters.
    Avatar by Szilard, thank you sir for the fine work!

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by bobthe6th View Post
    also, why are they still conjuration? necromancy is the name of the game my friend. even evocation is better. But for the love of god, stop letting conjuration the only school that matters.
    To be fair, if you took the cure spells out of Conjuration, then there wouldn't really be a reason for the Conjuration (Healing) subschool at all.

    It's more than a little extreme to just say "Not only am I going to change every healing spell in the game, I'm also going to do away with an entire subschool of magic!". I can understand why Noctis would hesitate to do something like that.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    First off, Clerics aren't the only ones who get the Cure/Inflict spells. Instead of Wis modifier, why not make it their primary casting modifier?
    Second, for the sake of clarity, don't put the maximum caster level; put the maximum healing/damage from caster level.
    So, Minor would be "(maximum 5)", Light would be "(maximum 10)", Moderate would be "(maximum 40)", Serious would be "(maximum 90)", Critical would be "(maximum 160)" and Heal would be "(maximum 250)". Also, you should include a Mass Heal/Harm, just for full clarity.

    Now, comparing these to the originals (at their maxed out CL):
    Minor: big time buff, it can heal 5 times as much as before.
    Light: it's generally going to be a buff; with a Wis mod of 0, it heals .5 more than the average for 1d8+5.
    Moderate: Definitely a buff. The minimum healing is 41, which is more than twice the average of 2d8+10.
    Serious: Huge buff; this averaged at 28.5 before, now its minimum is 91, more than three times that.
    Critical: Again, huge buff. It went from an average of 38 to a minimum of 162.
    Heal: it can get another 100 in if you can boost your CL by 5 at level 20, but otherwise it's a flat 200. A buff, but not as huge as the others.

    Could someone spit out some estimates of party HP to see how powerful these are?
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    To be fair, if you took the cure spells out of Conjuration, then there wouldn't really be a reason for the Conjuration (Healing) subschool at all.

    It's more than a little extreme to just say "Not only am I going to change every healing spell in the game, I'm also going to do away with an entire subschool of magic!". I can understand why Noctis would hesitate to do something like that.
    the healing subschool has no place in conjuration in the first place. there is no matter being conjuered only energy(envocation). also as it is a manipulation of life forces, it could add some good bits to necromancy.

    there both broken points. as you are fixing them, why not fix it all the way? the result will have no real consequences for game play, and magic will make more sense(I guess a few abilities will need reformatted, but in core not so much).
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Alright, reworked the whole chain. Both Cure and Inflict now have a spell at every level. Heal and Harm are now exclusive Cleric only 9th level spells.

    @absolmorph: I'm not sure I want to switch it to stating the maximum number of healing/damage. I had it worded that way when I started writing them, and it felt out of place to me.

    As for creating a mass version of these, I'm actually working on a Mass Spell (Metamagic) feat. If you apply it to one of these, it will be a mass spell. Plus, you'll have a simple formula to make any spell a Mass spell.

    As for why I created these, I actually ran a game where someone had a D10 with a lot of HP, and we found we were burning most our healing powers early on because the dang Cleric could not roll anything but ones for the whole session (no joke, he never got a more than a 6 on any die for 6 hours of play, and never more than a 2 on a cure roll). My idea was to standardize the Cure line to make them far more useful, as well as removing the need for die rolls from them.

    As for the wording, I'll change it from "Wisdom modifier" to "caster stat modifier", thanks for the catch.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSeraphi View Post
    To be fair, if you took the cure spells out of Conjuration, then there wouldn't really be a reason for the Conjuration (Healing) subschool at all.

    It's more than a little extreme to just say "Not only am I going to change every healing spell in the game, I'm also going to do away with an entire subschool of magic!". I can understand why Noctis would hesitate to do something like that.
    I don't see the problem with fixing bad design decisions.
    That's part of what got me looking at homebrew to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Alright, reworked the whole chain. Both Cure and Inflict now have a spell at every level. Heal and Harm are now exclusive Cleric only 9th level spells.

    @absolmorph: I'm not sure I want to switch it to stating the maximum number of healing/damage. I had it worded that way when I started writing them, and it felt out of place to me.

    As for creating a mass version of these, I'm actually working on a Mass Spell (Metamagic) feat. If you apply it to one of these, it will be a mass spell. Plus, you'll have a simple formula to make any spell a Mass spell.

    As for why I created these, I actually ran a game where someone had a D10 with a lot of HP, and we found we were burning most our healing powers early on because the dang Cleric could not roll anything but ones for the whole session (no joke, he never got a more than a 6 on any die for 6 hours of play, and never more than a 2 on a cure roll). My idea was to standardize the Cure line to make them far more useful, as well as removing the need for die rolls from them.

    As for the wording, I'll change it from "Wisdom modifier" to "caster stat modifier", thanks for the catch.
    I like the new spells.

    There are two reasons I suggested listing the max number instead of the max useful caster level: most spells list the max number instead of the caster level, so (at least in my case) an instinctive "this is where it tops out" quick-read develops, so it gets confusing. Also, it gives allows a quicker reference check; if you know you get the max result but can't remember it, you can just glance at the spell and see "Oh, I get X plus my Wis modifier".
    Of course, the decision is up to you.

    The Mass metamagic should be perfectly fine.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    I did one up on that, absolmorph. Table has been added so you can find exactly how much you should be healing at each level with each spell.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    I did some maths a long while back, and noted that under RAW, cure spells could be likened to healing 10% of max hp per spell level. The linked thread here has s similar selection of variants for cure spells.

    I note that in your fix, the RAW heal spell is strictly better than your high level cure spells. I assume your fix replaces the original heal and harm spells?

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    I note that in your fix, the RAW heal spell is strictly better than your high level cure spells. I assume your fix replaces the original heal and harm spells?
    Given that replacement heal and harm spells are provided (at level 9), I would certainly hope so.

    @Noctis -- nice work, from a quick skim over. Not really much to add; these seem solid but would need careful analysis to vet their balance, which isn't something I'm great at.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    I did some maths a long while back, and noted that under RAW, cure spells could be likened to healing 10% of max hp per spell level. The linked thread here has s similar selection of variants for cure spells.

    I note that in your fix, the RAW heal spell is strictly better than your high level cure spells. I assume your fix replaces the original heal and harm spells?
    The math is nice, thanks! My goal was to make the cure/inflict lines far stronger, and Heal and Harm the ultimate channeling of positive or negative energy possible. Basically, if Heal doesn't heal you of every ailment and all HP, you're using it wrong.

    So yes, if you use this system, it would replace the Cure and inflict series in the PHB.

    Quote Originally Posted by tuggyne View Post
    @Noctis -- nice work, from a quick skim over. Not really much to add; these seem solid but would need careful analysis to vet their balance, which isn't something I'm great at.
    I'm glad you like it. I'm not much for balancing myself, so I know what you mean. I think these balance well by level, but maybe that's just me. The numbers I worked out seem to work, though.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Btw, I feel that for 5th level spells, you should assume the spell will restore all hp. Arguably, a 6th level capstone for the chain that removes all ability drain and heals all hp. There's no sense in stretching the chain out to all nine spell levels. Not when 5th level spells are already raising the dead. You don't heal much further than that!

    ETA:

    http://alzrius.wordpress.com/2011/10...han-a-healing/ contains an interesting twist on the conventional healing spells, which would be perfect for an evil deity of torture, for example. I think Str/Dex drain would make more sense for that chain though. In GW's WFRP setting, they'd be a perfect fit for Slaanesh.
    Last edited by Ashtagon; 2012-01-31 at 06:19 AM.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Hmm, i apprecate that your giving me a healing spell at every spell level, but personally i does my head in to keep track of all those Ms (minor, moderate, mighty, major, mortal and massive, woah). Could we cut them down a bit and make them sound a little different? You could redo the restoration line to fill in the blanks if you like, so you get something like:

    0- Cure Minor/Superficial Wounds
    1- Cure Light Wounds
    2- Lesser Restoration
    3- Cure Moderate Wounds
    4- Cure Serious Wounds
    5- Restoration
    6- Cure Critical/Dire Wounds
    7- Cure Mortal Wounds
    8- Greater Restoration
    9- Heal

    Other than that, good work! Ill make sure to let the party cleric know of these

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Dire and Superficial! Aha! I knew there were words I wasn't thinking of for these! Thanks, Kane0!

    As for reworking the Restoration spells...I can try. You probably won't see them for a day or two, though. Gimme some time to think on them.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Dire and Superficial! Aha! I knew there were words I wasn't thinking of for these! Thanks, Kane0!
    Also try shoving in Trivial, Intermediate, Extensive, Brutal, Formidable, and perhaps Tremendous, Overpowering, or Prodigious (a little odd, but to spread out the acronymage might be worthwhile). That should be enough to remove any ambiguity, I think.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    We should vote for our favourite names

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    I like Dire and Minor. Not Superficial.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Alright, you folks wanted a revamp, you got a revamp. The Cure line now also eliminates the three Restoration spells. All spells have been renamed so that no two have the same letter starting the second word; you can now TLA them without confusing yourselves.

    As for Heal, I added almost every adverse condition to the list of things it removes.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    CLW Removing temporary ability damage with a first level spell?

    ...It's not exactly broken, more like the exact opposite. How often would you expect to see ability damage at first level? Instead, I would make it lower a penalty to an ability score (such as from the spell ray of enfeeblement) by 1/2 caster levels, max -5. Not as bad, but more CR appropriate.

    Harm The sicken condition is a weaker form of the nauseated condition (it's pretty obvious by the names too). Replace the sicken with shaken (they're basically the same thing) and then move the nausea to be negated by the Fortitude save instead of the Will save.

    Other than that, these spells look great! Well done, sir!

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Oh an, thanks for catching that screw up on the Harm saves for me. Fixed it, and also made it a little nastier.

    As for your suggestions to CLW, I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting. The ability damage bit was only put on to help keep the spell relevant at high levels. You're saying make it counter temporary ability penalties, not temporary damage? Looking over Ray of Enfeeblement, I'm not seeing a difference in my wording and yours. Mine just does less. Or did I miss something?

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    As for your suggestions to CLW, I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting. The ability damage bit was only put on to help keep the spell relevant at high levels. ...
    otoh, *should* a 1st level spell be relevant at high levels? There's a reason why 20th level casters usually ignore their magic missile spells. And it's not just because there aren't enough rounds in a day to get through all their higher level spells.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    otoh, *should* a 1st level spell be relevant at high levels? There's a reason why 20th level casters usually ignore their magic missile spells. And it's not just because there aren't enough rounds in a day to get through all their higher level spells.
    Well, it sure isn't going to be getting attention in combat.
    But should it be something that's useless at high levels? It's not going to be used for healing past early levels, but that extra bit of ability damage healing could be really handy when they're healing up between battles (and recovering from an adventure).
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    Well, it sure isn't going to be getting attention in combat.
    But should it be something that's useless at high levels? It's not going to be used for healing past early levels, but that extra bit of ability damage healing could be really handy when they're healing up between battles (and recovering from an adventure).
    Personally, my view is that 1st level healing spell shouldn't be able to cure ability damage. Making low level spells relevant at high levels should be more about finding creative new ways to use the spell, rather than giving the spell an ability to counter an attack that simply doesn't exist in meaningful numbers at level-appropriate encounters where the spell is first available.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Personally, my view is that 1st level healing spell shouldn't be able to cure ability damage. Making low level spells relevant at high levels should be more about finding creative new ways to use the spell, rather than giving the spell an ability to counter an attack that simply doesn't exist in meaningful numbers at level-appropriate encounters where the spell is first available.
    Well...
    What about poisons?
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by absolmorph View Post
    Well...
    What about poisons?
    Shadows are CR 3, which means they aren't level-appropriate for 1st level characters, except as boss monsters or adventure climax encounters.

    Poisons don't have a CR in themselves, although they do have a CR when included as part of a trap. About the only way to make a CR 1 (ie. level-appropriate when 1st level spells are first received) trap with poison is to have a ridiculously easy spot check that even Elan could find. Even these poisons that can be built into such traps do trivial amounts (1d2 generally) of ability damage, that can be recovered quite easily with natural healing. Giving CLW that healing function would remove poison as a possible danger source entirely.

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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ashtagon View Post
    Shadows are CR 3, which means they aren't level-appropriate for 1st level characters, except as boss monsters or adventure climax encounters.

    Poisons don't have a CR in themselves, although they do have a CR when included as part of a trap. About the only way to make a CR 1 (ie. level-appropriate when 1st level spells are first received) trap with poison is to have a ridiculously easy spot check that even Elan could find. Even these poisons that can be built into such traps do trivial amounts (1d2 generally) of ability damage, that can be recovered quite easily with natural healing. Giving CLW that healing function would remove poison as a possible danger source entirely.
    Enemies can buy poisons.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    There are plenty cheap poisons. As a PC, I almost always get a few doses, even if I'm not a sneaky type, and as a DM, any rogue or blackguard is going to have some nasty high DC stuff on their sword. Even at 1st level.
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    Start the game in a tavern. Then have the tavern attacked by horrifically over-CRed monsters and kill them all.
    The real campaign begins when they wake up as spirits, and you pull out the Ghostwalk supplement.
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    Default Re: Cure and Inflict Revamped (3.5 spells, PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Noctis Vigil View Post
    Oh an, thanks for catching that screw up on the Harm saves for me. Fixed it, and also made it a little nastier.

    As for your suggestions to CLW, I'm honestly not sure what you're suggesting. The ability damage bit was only put on to help keep the spell relevant at high levels. You're saying make it counter temporary ability penalties, not temporary damage? Looking over Ray of Enfeeblement, I'm not seeing a difference in my wording and yours. Mine just does less. Or did I miss something?
    Ability damage and ability penalties are different things. Ray of enfeeblement, touch of idiocy and escalating enfeeblement (as well as a few other spells) all deliver ability penalties. Ability penalties are things that just lower a score, rather than damage it, and are always temporary (Except that disease from BoVD). Ability penalties all go away at the end of the duration of the spell or effect that caused them, while ability damage goes away at a rate of 1 point per day, making it much more serious.

    That's why I'm saying you should cure ability penalties with CLW and ability damage with all the higher level spells.

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