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  1. - Top - End - #691
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    Speaking of that, why isn't she listed with Ranged Pin from that time she nailed Roy's crotch to the side of the chasm?

    And are there any ACFs that could maybe explain some of her feats?
    If I recall correctly, there was disagreement over whether Haley needed the feat to pin a non-living object to the wall or not.
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  2. - Top - End - #692
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I stopped reading this thread a while back so forgive me if this has been brought up (I don't have time to sift through the debates for this one issue) but since V cast Stoneskin against Z and Yik Yik, shouldn't we remove the Diamond Dust from hir inventory? Or can we not assume s/he only bought enough for 1 spell?
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  3. - Top - End - #693
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    Or can we not assume s/he only bought enough for 1 spell?
    I would say this.
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  4. - Top - End - #694
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    That's the line I would take: Until we get a statement like in Comic 452 where V declares an absence of diamond dust, I would continue to mark it as stocked.
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  5. - Top - End - #695
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    wrt: Haley's special rogue abilities. A level 15 human rogue has seven feats, and Haley is listed with eight. Should this not mean that she spent one of her special rogue abilities on learning one of those feats?
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    If I recall correctly, there was disagreement over whether Haley needed the feat to pin a non-living object to the wall or not.
    I don't see the rules making a distinction between living or non-living, so we should consider putting that back.

    Also, Elan has Listen (says so in OOPC) and a poor spot check (says so in #318). Thog's remark in #388 probably means that Elan is smarter than him, not that that's saying much.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-03-05 at 06:28 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #696
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Fairly minor point, but it might be worth noting that Haley considers herself to have a higher CON score than V in #843
    Last edited by Aldreck; 2012-03-05 at 03:20 PM.
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  7. - Top - End - #697
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Aldreck View Post
    Fairly minor point, but it might be worth noting that Haley considers herself to have a higher CON score than V in #843
    What does this imply in terms of assigning a number to Haley's CON? The average Elf CON is 8, but Vaarsuvius is listed with <12 in this thread, based on some interpretation of "decent". Furthermore, I seem to remember someone mentioning Vaarsuvius pegging either her CON at 9 in SSDT, though my memory's not the best. Should Haley be listed with CON 8+, CON 12+, or no score at all, on the basis of us not really having an upper bound for Vaarsuvius' CON?

    EDIT: found it.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-03-08 at 03:06 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #698
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Can we say “Unknown, but higher than Vaarsuvius'”? It's more specific than “we don't know,” if only just, because then we at least have a hierarchy within the order.
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  9. - Top - End - #699
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    What does this imply in terms of assigning a number to Haley's CON? The average Elf CON is 8, but Vaarsuvius is listed with <12 in this thread, based on some interpretation of "decent".
    The argument is that since Vaarsuvius lacks a decent con, it is average (10-11) or below.

    EDIT: found it.
    There was disagreement over whether that old guy was Vaarsuvius, or just Vaarsuvius's character in the sub-story.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shale View Post
    Can we say “Unknown, but higher than Vaarsuvius'”? It's more specific than “we don't know,” if only just, because then we at least have a hierarchy within the order.
    I think that's fair.
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  10. - Top - End - #700
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Yeah, we should keep track of things like Haley's Con being higher than Vaarsuvius', because even if it doesn't let us pin down anyone's numbers now, it might later.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I seem to recall at some point there was something explaining Xykon's access to Maximized Energy Drain, but it's not there now (Improved Spell Capacity, maybe?).
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  12. - Top - End - #702
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Yeah, we should keep track of things like Haley's Con being higher than Vaarsuvius', because even if it doesn't let us pin down anyone's numbers now, it might later.
    I've added it.

    Quote Originally Posted by thereaper View Post
    I seem to recall at some point there was something explaining Xykon's access to Maximized Energy Drain, but it's not there now (Improved Spell Capacity, maybe?).
    It's in the FAQ.

    So anyway, how does comic 647 prove that Elan's charisma is 20+?
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-03-12 at 05:24 AM.
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  13. - Top - End - #703
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    So anyway, how does comic 647 prove that Elan's charisma is 20+?
    The combination of 2 5th level and 1 4th level new spells known can only be satisfied by Bard level 13, and getting 5th level spells known at that level requires a bonus 5th level spell per day from charisma.
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  14. - Top - End - #704
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    I've added it.
    You linked to 844 instead of 843

  15. - Top - End - #705
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
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    Julia was said to be 16 (panel 7) at least a year ago (panel 2).
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  16. - Top - End - #706
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Debatra View Post
    Julia was said to be 16 (panel 7) at least a year ago (panel 2).
    Updated. In fact I've increased everyone's age.
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  17. - Top - End - #707
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Regarding level-up points:
    The point at which Haley demonstrated her eighth feat would also be the point at which she demonstrated having leveled up to 13. Now, if the current list of feats is correct, her last three feats should have been Ranged Pin, Ranged Sunder, and Dodge. Point Blank Shot is a prerequisite for just about everything else. Precise Shot and MWP: Longbow make sense to take as early as possible. She had to have Rapid Shot and Manyshot before level 12.

    I don't own SSDT, so you'll have to help me with this: did Haley mention she had Dodge in one of the strips lifted from Dragon, or in bonus content for the book? If from Dragon, was that Dragon strip published before online strip #477, between 477 and 512, or after 512?
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-03-13 at 08:02 AM.

  18. - Top - End - #708
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I submit that Xykon must be 27th level at minimum, based upon events in 652 and 653.

    Xykon casts a maximized 9th-level spell (Energy Drain), which means he must have taken Improved Spell Capacity at least 3 times to have a 12th-level spell slot. Along with Epic Spellcasting and an Epic crafting feat (for the item of fire immunity), he has at least 5 Epic feats. He gets feats at level 21, 23, 24, 26 and 27.

    Alternatively, he has Improved Metamagic and Improved Spell Capacity twice, still putting him at minimum 27th level.

    EDIT: Changed from 26 to 27.
    Last edited by Gitman00; 2012-03-13 at 08:34 AM.
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  19. - Top - End - #709
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gitman00 View Post
    I submit that Xykon must be 27th level at minimum, based upon events in 652 and 653.

    Xykon casts a maximized 9th-level spell (Energy Drain), which means he must have taken Improved Spell Capacity at least 3 times to have a 12th-level spell slot. Along with Epic Spellcasting and an Epic crafting feat (for the item of fire immunity), he has at least 5 Epic feats. He gets feats at level 21, 23, 24, 26 and 27.

    Alternatively, he has Improved Metamagic and Improved Spell Capacity twice, still putting him at minimum 27th level.

    EDIT: Changed from 26 to 27.
    This has already been argued extensively, you should check back through the pages for the counterarguments.

  20. - Top - End - #710
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    The combination of 2 5th level and 1 4th level new spells known can only be satisfied by Bard level 13, and getting 5th level spells known at that level requires a bonus 5th level spell per day from charisma.
    Ok, thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bengui View Post
    You linked to 844 instead of 843
    Whoops.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    I don't own SSDT, so you'll have to help me with this: did Haley mention she had Dodge in one of the strips lifted from Dragon, or in bonus content for the book? If from Dragon, was that Dragon strip published before online strip #477, between 477 and 512, or after 512?
    It is near the start of the Dragon comics. Strip 477 is dated July 2007, and the last Dragon magazine to contain an OOTS comic was September 2007.

    (edit) added deck of cards to Durkon, and spot-not-worth-a-damn.
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-03-14 at 09:30 AM.
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  21. - Top - End - #711
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    It is near the start of the Dragon comics. Strip 477 is dated July 2007, and the last Dragon magazine to contain an OOTS comic was September 2007.
    Then the eighth feat Haley demonstrated having was Ranged Sunder, and she demonstrated leveling-up to 13 in strip 512 (December 2007). We may never know when she leveled-up to 14 though.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-03-14 at 02:52 PM.

  22. - Top - End - #712
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Durkon has 10,000 GP worth of Diamond Dust, enough for one Resurrection.

    Well, he could technically have 19,999 GP worth, but I think it makes sense to keep it to minimum known quantity.
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  23. - Top - End - #713
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Assuming they ask no more question, the speak with dead pins Durkon's level at either 13 or 14, based on speak with dead providing only three question. Any higher and they've have one more question to ask, if I'm reading the spell description correctly.

  24. - Top - End - #714
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cavelcade View Post
    Assuming they ask no more question, the speak with dead pins Durkon's level at either 13 or 14, based on speak with dead providing only three question. Any higher and they've have one more question to ask, if I'm reading the spell description correctly.
    You're reading it wrong. You get one question per two caster levels, so they have a minimum of three more questions based on Durkon's previous minimum level. If they use them, that is.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Ah, so I am. I think what confused me is the way the comic ended makes it appear they only got three questions, which made me think it was based on the highest level spell you could cast. My bad.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Myou View Post
    This has already been argued extensively, you should check back through the pages for the counterarguments.
    Just finished reading the relevant section, and GOOD GRIEF that was a long-ass flame war. Shows how often I've checked this thread recently. While I still think putting Xykon at 27+ is the most logical conclusion from the evidence at hand, I guess I don't want to open that can o' worms again. Too bad the debate had to get out of hand, though that seems to be mostly one person's doing.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Then the eighth feat Haley demonstrated having was Ranged Sunder, and she demonstrated leveling-up to 13 in strip 512 (December 2007). We may never know when she leveled-up to 14 though.
    Added.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    Durkon has 10,000 GP worth of Diamond Dust, enough for one Resurrection.
    And added.

    Speaking of Durkon, should we add Heat Blisters Of Eternal Pain to his spell list? Also, do we have a link for his Heal skill, lack of Listen skill, Religion "not much greater" than 1, and speak language: giant?
    Last edited by Kurald Galain; 2012-03-15 at 10:17 AM.
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  28. - Top - End - #718
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Added.


    And added.

    Speaking of Durkon, should we add Heat Blisters Of Eternal Pain to his spell list? Also, do we have a link for his Heal skill, lack of Listen skill, Religion "not much greater" than 1, and speak language: giant?
    In regards to the Heat Blisters of Eternal Pain spell? No. The spell was on ThorSpell, but that doesn't mean that Durkon can cast it. It also seems out of character for Durkon to prepare it.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Speaking of Durkon, should we add Heat Blisters Of Eternal Pain to his spell list? Also, do we have a link for his Heal skill, lack of Listen skill, Religion "not much greater" than 1, and speak language: giant?
    I say no to HBoEP, as it was kind of an "extra" spell being offered to him by ThorSpeak.

    I'm not sure about heal, unless we can construe his diagnosis of Roy's multiple poisonings or the face the Draketooth clan has mummified.

    For listen, that's Origin of PC's: "High wisdom means a decent untrained listen check".

    For Know!Rel, Comic #52 shows he has some ranks, but not maxxed and not enough to identify his Deity's enemy.

    I can't recall where Speak (Giant) comes from.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Another thing I just realised: #845 shows that Durkon could cast Resurrection twice in one day. Since Resurrection is not on any Cleric Domain spell, that means he has two non-domain level seven spell slots. The explaination for this is either he's reached level 14, or he has a Wisdom of at least 24. What do we think it is?
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