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  1. - Top - End - #751
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Nale has no Wisdom.

    Also, Belkar with Animal Ken? Is this because he knows cats are lactose-intolerant? And Haley should totally have five dots each in Manipulation and Subterfuge, she's supposed to be an amazing liar.
    Elan has no Constitution, and Sabine has no Strength. The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.

    As for the second point, I'm not seeing it.

  2. - Top - End - #752
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    The link for Nale's Int doesn't work on my page settings. Here's a link to the specific post: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showp...&postcount=198
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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

    Also ponies.
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    elan: dad plz dont kill roy
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  3. - Top - End - #753
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    Elan has no Constitution, and Sabine has no Strength. The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.
    That's not precisely true. Kurald seems to have implemented that policy for the OOTS, but RMS seems to cleave to the older policy of listing racial averages for the NPCs.

    Also, barring racial and age bonuses and penalties, the minimum score anyone listed should have in any stat should be 3. Obviously if a higher minimum can be derived, or is called out in the comic, that information supercedes the above assumption.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-04-02 at 08:45 PM.
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    "I'm the R to the E to the T-C-O-N, and I change the past so the now makes sense again. I'm Retconlicious!"
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  4. - Top - End - #754
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    The thread's default stance appears to be not listing any scores that we know nothing about.
    That is correct. Note that a racial bonus or penalty is something we know. I don't see much of a point in adding a lot of lines that say "probably around ten" or "certainly 3 or more"; we might as well list everybody with a strength of less than 100.
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  5. - Top - End - #755
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That is correct. Note that a racial bonus or penalty is something we know. I don't see much of a point in adding a lot of lines that say "probably around ten" or "certainly 3 or more"; we might as well list everybody with a strength of less than 100.
    This is correct, with one exception: I think we should have Elan and Nale's constitution listed, even if it is just ~10, because while we don't know what the actual score is, we do know they have an identical score, so I think that's worth noting.
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    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

  6. - Top - End - #756
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Regarding Xykon, he's capable of casting 12th level spells (maximized energy drain). His minimum level is 26 for him to be able to cast Epic Spells plus taking Improved Spell Capacity three times.

    Also the drow wizard in the linear guild has Improved Familiar to account for his imp.

  7. - Top - End - #757
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordofBones View Post
    Regarding Xykon, he's capable of casting 12th level spells (maximized energy drain). His minimum level is 26 for him to be able to cast Epic Spells plus taking Improved Spell Capacity three times.
    The problem is Xykon later used a Still Meteor Swarm in a situation where he shouldn't be able to, so it doesn't fit neatly into the epic rules, and since we don't know what Rich was thinking at this point, we can't note it right now.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordofBones View Post
    Also the drow wizard in the linear guild has Improved Familiar to account for his imp.
    This was disputed because of the idea that Qarr is not actually a Familiar, but only pretending to be on the IFCC's orders, Qarr's statements about his plans overrulling Z's assertion about having a familiar.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

  8. - Top - End - #758
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Well, it at least shows that Xykon is capable of casting 12th level spells. While the Meteor Swarm thing is a bit wonky, his energy drain casting seems to obey the rules of the spell.

  9. - Top - End - #759
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by LordofBones View Post
    Well, it at least shows that Xykon is capable of casting 12th level spells. While the Meteor Swarm thing is a bit wonky, his energy drain casting seems to obey the rules of the spell.
    It's in the FAQ already.

    If you want more background info, pages 5 through 15 of this thread contain an extensive discussion on the matter.
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  10. - Top - End - #760
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    As for the second point, I'm not seeing it.
    The second point was a response to an April Fools joke which has since been removed from the OP.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  11. - Top - End - #761
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    The second point was a response to an April Fools joke which has since been removed from the OP.
    Well, I'm glad somebody noticed it
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  12. - Top - End - #762
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    On what basis? The OOTS levelled together until the party split, and no one else in the party demonstrated being over level 13 (see the OP).
    I thought I remembered V casting an 8th level spell in that fight. No big.

  13. - Top - End - #763
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Frequently Asked Questions

    Q: How does Xykon cast Maximized Energy Drain in comic 657?
    We don't know for sure. The most popular theories involve the feat Improved Spell Capacity, the feat Sudden Maximize, or a Rod of Metamagic. Each theory has its pros and cons.
    Just a typo, Xykon casts it in comic 652, not 657.

    *Hides*

  14. - Top - End - #764
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    On what basis? The OOTS levelled together until the party split, and no one else in the party demonstrated being over level 13 (see the OP).
    More specifically, V required there to be no more than 13 soldiers holding the breach in the wall, so that he could cast Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Bear's Endurance, and Mass Enlarge Person, all spells that can target "One target per caster level, with no two of them being more than 30ft apart." Since he specifically asked for the commander to not bring in more soldiers, it is almost confirmed that Vaarsuvius was level 13 by this interaction. If the party leveled up relatively equally up until the split, then 13 seems to be the level of each of the members of the Order at this point.

    EDIT: Well, looks like some of the members didn't hit 13 until much later on. Oh well, at least there can't be any more confusion about V's level at this point!
    Last edited by Hord Sin'orakos; 2012-04-03 at 12:28 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #765
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    EDIT: Well, looks like some of the members didn't hit 13 until much later on. Oh well, at least there can't be any more confusion about V's level at this point!
    The other party members didn't do anything to prove they were 13 until later on, but they might still have been 13 at the battle.

    And I agree that we shouldn't read anything into Eugene calling Roy "the highest-level good character on the battlefield". Not only do we know that Eugene is a habitual liar, but we know that he was wrong in this instance, since Soon is definitely higher level than Roy.

    And I missed the April Fool's joke-- Was it a White Wolf thing?
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  16. - Top - End - #766
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Hord Sin'orakos View Post
    More specifically, V required there to be no more than 13 soldiers holding the breach in the wall, so that he could cast Mass Bull's Strength, Mass Bear's Endurance, and Mass Enlarge Person, all spells that can target "One target per caster level, with no two of them being more than 30ft apart." Since he specifically asked for the commander to not bring in more soldiers, it is almost confirmed that Vaarsuvius was level 13 by this interaction. If the party leveled up relatively equally up until the split, then 13 seems to be the level of each of the members of the Order at this point.
    V demonstrated she had reached level 13 when she cast the seventh-level spell Grasping Hand on Belkar here. That scene with the giant soldiers and the breach establishes 13 as the upper bound for V's level at the time.
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  17. - Top - End - #767
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    V demonstrated she had reached level 13 when she cast the seventh-level spell Grasping Hand on Belkar here. That scene with the giant soldiers and the breach establishes 13 as the upper bound for V's level at the time.
    A twelfth-level Vaarsuvius would have only been able to buff 12 of the soldiers with a single casting of Mass Bull's Strength or Mass Bear's Endurance.
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  18. - Top - End - #768
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    A twelfth-level Vaarsuvius would have only been able to buff 12 of the soldiers with a single casting of Mass Bull's Strength or Mass Bear's Endurance.
    ...Hence 13 is the upper bound for her level at the time, and not 12. All I'm saying is that V was established as being level either 13 or 14 earlier than the scene at the breach, by virtue of being able to cast a seventh-level spell to restrain Belkar. The scene at the breach then ruled out her being level 14, pegging her level at the time at level 13.
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    "I'm the R to the E to the T-C-O-N, and I change the past so the now makes sense again. I'm Retconlicious!"
    Cream colored ponies and crisp apple strudels, doorbells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles, wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings, these are a few are my favorite things.
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  19. - Top - End - #769
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    ...So 13 was the lower bound for his/her level then? S/he could have been more than 13, but couldn't have been less?
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  20. - Top - End - #770
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    ...So 13 was the lower bound for his/her level then? S/he could have been more than 13, but couldn't have been less?
    In between demonstrating that she could cast Grasping Hand and the scene at the breach? Yes. Once the scene at the breach had occured, level 13 was pretty much the only possibility.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    "I'm the R to the E to the T-C-O-N, and I change the past so the now makes sense again. I'm Retconlicious!"
    Cream colored ponies and crisp apple strudels, doorbells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles, wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings, these are a few are my favorite things.
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  21. - Top - End - #771
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    The other party members didn't do anything to prove they were 13 until later on, but they might still have been 13 at the battle.

    And I agree that we shouldn't read anything into Eugene calling Roy "the highest-level good character on the battlefield". Not only do we know that Eugene is a habitual liar, but we know that he was wrong in this instance, since Soon is definitely higher level than Roy.

    And I missed the April Fool's joke-- Was it a White Wolf thing?
    Soon wasn't really "on the battlefield," though... he was holed up in the throne room.

    I assume that Roy would have challenged Eugene's statement - which was essentially that none of Roy's party members were as high-leveled as he was - if he knew it to be untrue, and I assume Roy knew what level the other Order members are. It's pretty important to know that sort of thing in tactical planning, y'know, and even if we don't always know when characters level up anymore, I'm sure Roy always did, at least until he died.

    Presumably Eugene knew that if his criticism of Roy in that instance was flat-out wrong, Roy could have refuted him and made him look stupid by saying "no, I'm the same level as everybody else," or even by plausibly being able to say "no, I have no reason to think that I'm the highest level character in the party and thus the highest level character on the side of Good." Thus I assume Eugene actually knew what he was talking about.
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    When Durkon gets hungry, he'll come through the OotS-verse's notoriously fragile fourth wall and dine on the people who have called him something goofy.

  22. - Top - End - #772
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Presumably Eugene knew that if his criticism of Roy in that instance was flat-out wrong, Roy could have refuted him and made him look stupid by saying "no, I'm the same level as everybody else," or even by plausibly being able to say "no, I have no reason to think that I'm the highest level character in the party and thus the highest level character on the side of Good." Thus I assume Eugene actually knew what he was talking about.
    If Roy had said, "Actually, I'm only the same level as Durkon," he would have come across as pedantic and whiny.

    And, frankly, "Roy would know if Eugene's statement was false" isn't much better than "Eugene would know if his statement was true." Same question in either case: How?
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    "You are what you do. Choose again, and change." --Miles Vorkosigan

    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  23. - Top - End - #773
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    If Roy had said, "Actually, I'm only the same level as Durkon," he would have come across as pedantic and whiny.

    And, frankly, "Roy would know if Eugene's statement was false" isn't much better than "Eugene would know if his statement was true." Same question in either case: How?
    He could have said "Now you're just making up random stuff/pulling made-up nonsense out of your rectum just to sound as if you have a leg to stand on." Presumably something much classier than that. But come on. Expecting someone as snarky as Roy to be unable to avoid pedantry when busy refuting someone's arguments - which is exactly what he was doing in that panel and the surrounding panels - is absurd.

    Here's an even better question: How does anyone know ANYONE'S level? Knowing your own level is absurd enough. But we have evidence that characters are aware of each others' levels. For instance, Hinjo mutters at the end of the DStP arc that "Lien and O'Chul managed to gain levels and I didn't," and it makes zero sense that Roy would make no effort to learn his teammates' levels if, as it seems, he could, or that they would withhold the fact that they'd gained levels from him. Somebody as interested in tactical planning as he is would obviously want to know such vital information.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    When Durkon gets hungry, he'll come through the OotS-verse's notoriously fragile fourth wall and dine on the people who have called him something goofy.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I think we can add Mass Resist Energy to Durkon's non-Core spells. I know he said Mass Resist Acid, but I think that's just how he chooses the energy type to protect from.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Speaking of which, shouldn't Z be listed with Protection from Energy?
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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

    Also ponies.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    elan: dad plz dont kill roy
    tarquin: ok
    Damn it! Now I have to rewrite the script for #917.
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    A good point, but I'll wait until we get a little more consensus on the matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Speaking of which, shouldn't Z be listed with Protection from Energy?
    Yes. Yes he should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    "I'm the R to the E to the T-C-O-N, and I change the past so the now makes sense again. I'm Retconlicious!"
    Cream colored ponies and crisp apple strudels, doorbells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles, wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings, these are a few are my favorite things.
    Humanized stick figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find the full set here.

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    I think we can add Mass Resist Energy to Durkon's non-Core spells. I know he said Mass Resist Acid, but I think that's just how he chooses the energy type to protect from.
    Sure. Also, Durkon has the carpet now.

    Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Speaking of which, shouldn't Z be listed with Protection from Energy?
    Why, because he resisted V's fireball?
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Sure. Also, Durkon has the carpet now.

    Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.
    I disagree about Qarr being a "former member".

    Why, because he resisted V's fireball?
    Because he's currently listed with "Protection from Fire" as though Protection from Fire were a spell on its own, and not a use of Protection from Energy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    "I'm the R to the E to the T-C-O-N, and I change the past so the now makes sense again. I'm Retconlicious!"
    Cream colored ponies and crisp apple strudels, doorbells and sleigh bells and schnitzel with noodles, wild geese that fly with the moon on their wings, these are a few are my favorite things.
    Humanized stick figure Twilight Sparkle by me. Find the full set here.

  30. - Top - End - #780
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    RMS Oceanic's Avatar

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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Based on comic 847, I think that Thog, Yukyuk, and Qarr should be moved to the "former members" section (which is listed alphabetically). I find it likely that Thog will return to the LG at some point, but presently he's not a member.
    Thog and Yukyuk sure, but I don't think Qarr should be stuffed into some spoiler tags just yet. I don't think we've seen him break relationships with the Linear Guild, just pop back to HQ for a status report.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Why, because he resisted V's fireball?
    Because he said Protection from Fire. No such spell exists, only Protection from Energy, so I think it makes sense if we mark Durkon's spell as Mass Resist Energy, the same convention would apply here.
    "They couldn't know that the points from the mainline to the siding were frozen, and the signal should have been set at 'DANGER', but snow had forced it down."
    - The Flying Kipper


    Pixar Fanboy of the Hinjo Fanclub

    Quote Originally Posted by Hallavast View Post
    Ya know? I think I'd about kill Rowling if she wasn't holding me hostage with that last book of hers...

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