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  1. - Top - End - #811
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    And I missed the April Fool's joke-- Was it a White Wolf thing?
    Yep. Now you'll have to wait until next year

    Quote Originally Posted by Emanick View Post
    Soon wasn't really "on the battlefield," though... he was holed up in the throne room.
    Well, we know the throne room is warded from scrying. We also know that Xykon was unable to scry it, so it's a fair bet that Eugene wasn't able to scry it either, and thus would be unaware of Soon's existence. Plus the Azureans end up in a different section of the afterlife.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    I agree that Thog should be considered former, even if he still is technically a member (much like how Z says he never stopped working for Nale). Too early to tell for Qarr.
    I suspect it's just a matter of time before either Nale betrays Tarquin, or Tarquin betrays Nale, or Malack and Nale start fighting again; and at that point, the Linear Guild will be back to Nale, Sabine, Thog, Zz'dtri and possibly Qarr. Still, in the meantime, it is what it is now. And it wouldn't be the first time The Giant threw us a curveball.

    Quote Originally Posted by RMS Oceanic View Post
    I would rather wait to see Kilkil in combat to see what he fights with before making any assumption about where he gets his wings from.
    Ah, let's just list him with "Abilities: flight" for now, thath's the same as for Blackwing and Qarr.

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    I've redone the math, since I forgot to factor Jirix's likely five ranks in Knowledge (religion) into his maximum possible rebuking check. The whole thing's in this spoiler:
    Thank you, but I'm not convinced Jirix is an important enough character to add to the list. He doesn't appear in a lot of strips, and we know next to nothing about him.
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  2. - Top - End - #812
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    We also know that Xykon was unable to scry it, so it's a fair bet that Eugene wasn't able to scry it either, and thus would be unaware of Soon's existence.
    I wouldn't bet on that. Redcloak (I think) has explicitly stated that scrying is not one of Xykon's strong points, so I doubt Xykon actually has any epic scrying magic. Yes, he's got epic magic, but it's probably all focused on other areas. Thus, I believe blocking non-epic scrying is sufficient to keep Xykon from peeking, but Eugene in the afterlife has access to scrying-specific epic magic and can probably beat the throne room's protection with that.

    Eugene still has a high chance of not knowing about Soon, but for entirely different reasons. If he looked at any point other than during the Soon/Xykon battle, there wouldn't have been anything to see. While that battle was going on, there was an enormous battle covering the entire city, any detail of which could have distracted Eugene from checking the throne room.
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  3. - Top - End - #813
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    I wouldn't bet on that. Redcloak (I think) has explicitly stated that scrying is not one of Xykon's strong points, so I doubt Xykon actually has any epic scrying magic. Yes, he's got epic magic, but it's probably all focused on other areas. Thus, I believe blocking non-epic scrying is sufficient to keep Xykon from peeking, but Eugene in the afterlife has access to scrying-specific epic magic and can probably beat the throne room's protection with that.

    Eugene still has a high chance of not knowing about Soon, but for entirely different reasons. If he looked at any point other than during the Soon/Xykon battle, there wouldn't have been anything to see. While that battle was going on, there was an enormous battle covering the entire city, any detail of which could have distracted Eugene from checking the throne room.
    Indeed. Add to that that Eugene, being Eugene, would not, except under duress, look at anything except Xykon.

  4. - Top - End - #814
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by douglas View Post
    Redcloak (I think) has explicitly stated that scrying is not one of Xykon's strong points, so I doubt Xykon actually has any epic scrying magic.
    It was Tsukiko who said divination's not his forte, which is why he has crystal balls.

    Eugene still has a high chance of not knowing about Soon, but for entirely different reasons. If he looked at any point other than during the Soon/Xykon battle, there wouldn't have been anything to see. While that battle was going on, there was an enormous battle covering the entire city, any detail of which could have distracted Eugene from checking the throne room.
    Roy was already dead by the time Soon appeared, and Soon wouldn't have counted as being on the battlefield before then. But really, there's no need to keep taking Eugene so literally.
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  5. - Top - End - #815
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    It was Tsukiko who said divination's not his forte, which is why he has crystal balls.
    Something else I wouldn't want as a nickname.

  6. - Top - End - #816
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Ah, let's just list him with "Abilities: flight" for now, thath's the same as for Blackwing and Qarr.
    Good point. I'll use #847 as the citing example, because I believe it's the first time he was flying more than ten feet off the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Thank you, but I'm not convinced Jirix is an important enough character to add to the list. He doesn't appear in a lot of strips, and we know next to nothing about him.
    I agree at this time. If we see him in a combat situation where a paladin isn't one hit killing him, we can look at revising this.
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  7. - Top - End - #817
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Reading the main discussion for 848, I note that both Tarquin and Xykon are more dangerous villains than they would be otherwise due to their genre-savviness. So, for that matter, is Elan.

    Which makes me wonder: Should we hypothesize a homebrew feat for OOTS world called "Genre Savvy"? It should give a +2 circumstance bonus to rolls in dramatically appropriate situations. Possibly also Great Genre Savvy for a +4. This might explain why Elan is able to survive in the most horrible situations while Roy (who doesn't have this feat) sort of blunders about.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  8. - Top - End - #818
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Yes, we should. And I think the proposed boni are way too small for the effects we see in the comic.
    If you want to create a rule, +2 or +4 is fine, but note it's the uber-munchkin-feat and Rich plays it out as much higher than these numbers.

    For the rules-analysis here, I think indicating the extreme "Genre Savy" of some chars with a feat is not a bad idea.

    It's not RAW and as such people here will argue against it and in the end, it won't happen (because it's not RAW). But the idea still rocks.
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  9. - Top - End - #819
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I had previously experimented with trying to define homebrew stuff like Cloister and the Crimson Mantle, and setting aside everything else, it was hard to hammer anything down. Now if they explain this proposed feat in comic I'd be willing to consider it, but trying to squeeze narrative conventions into D&D rules is a bit of a sidetrack. Also it undermines Rich's previous statement that Story trumps Rules.
    Last edited by RMS Oceanic; 2012-04-13 at 09:20 AM.
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  10. - Top - End - #820
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Can we in some other way indicate the Genre Savy characters? Like after the name, similar to "age" or something? That way, we keep the rules very fuzzy but also are able to indicate that some characters are in-comic mentioned genre Savy (Xykon, Elan, Tarquin). This seems to be a very determining factor so I'd be nice if we can note that somehow.
    Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!

  11. - Top - End - #821
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Which makes me wonder: Should we hypothesize a homebrew feat for OOTS world called "Genre Savvy"?
    What makes you think it's a feat, as opposed to a Bracelet of Savvyness, or the Knowledge (Tropes) skill?
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  12. - Top - End - #822
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    The problem with a Genre Savvy feat/item/skill/whatever is that such a homebrew rule is indistinguishable from a departure from the rules for the purpose of story, unless the rule is explicitly laid out. If we don't know exactly what Cloister does, we at least know it exists, because it was explicitly described in the comic. For the proposed homebrew...thing, we don't even have that much.

  13. - Top - End - #823
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Therefore I suggest to just note it somehow (not as rule).
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  14. - Top - End - #824
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    I seriously don't see the point in doing that, as it has no connection to the D&D rules at all. You might as well note the characters' personalities.
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  15. - Top - End - #825
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    It does have a massive impact on the plot/world and seems to make a big difference from an in-comic perspective. So it might be worthwhile to note.

    And yeah, why not add a short intro about personality etc to each character (like 3 to 5 lines (not specified how wide))? It's not this thread has massive new entires in regard to the rules, so why not create entire char sheets?
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  16. - Top - End - #826
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    intro about personality etc to each character (like 3 to 5 lines (not specified how wide))? It's not this thread has massive new entires in regard to the rules, so why not create entire char sheets?
    That sounds like a nightmare. In the unlikely event that the thread-maintainers go for it, I anticipate many arguments over whether Haley is really greedy, Elan is really stupid, and Roy is really bald. (Possibly not that last one.)

  17. - Top - End - #827
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Winter View Post
    It does have a massive impact on the plot/world and seems to make a big difference from an in-comic perspective. So it might be worthwhile to note.

    And yeah, why not add a short intro about personality etc to each character (like 3 to 5 lines (not specified how wide))? It's not this thread has massive new entires in regard to the rules, so why not create entire char sheets?
    Lots of things that have an impact on the plot and world aren't suitable topics for this rules geekery thread. Personalities would be one of those things. Unmentioned, undescribed, unexplained, pure-conjecture homebrew whatevers would be another of those things.

  18. - Top - End - #828
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    What makes you think it's a feat, as opposed to a Bracelet of Savvyness, or the Knowledge (Tropes) skill?
    Hmm ... because we've seen no artifacts or items related to this, and in Elan's case it seems related to his training, so it would not be an item. I'm not a great d20 expert, but I get the impression that skills are something used outside combat , while feats provide bonuses to attack rolls, saving throws, etc. In the case of Elan and Roy escaping Dorukan's dungeon just ahead of the explosion, that looks more like the use of a feat than of a skill.

    Respectfully,

    Brian P.

  19. - Top - End - #829
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    That sounds like a nightmare. In the unlikely event that the thread-maintainers go for it, I anticipate many arguments over whether Haley is really greedy, Elan is really stupid, and Roy is really bald. (Possibly not that last one.)
    Hey, he might have a Belkaresque bristle cut.

    But seriously, trying to hammer down a succinct and accurate description of a character's personality will be just as subjective as our views on alignment without a definitive source. For example, Haley killing Crystal: Does this mean she is ruthless in eliminating threats, or just pragmatic enough to know when to strike first? I've seen that debated even with the Don't Split the Party Scene to provide additional context. Your proposal is interesting, but it is also entirely outside the purview of recording character stats and levels.
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  20. - Top - End - #830
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    Hmm ... because we've seen no artifacts or items related to this, and in Elan's case it seems related to his training, so it would not be an item. I'm not a great d20 expert, but I get the impression that skills are something used outside combat ,
    That is no part of the definition of a skill.
    while feats provide bonuses to attack rolls, saving throws, etc.
    No. Quite a few feats function entirely or primarily outside of combat. "Skills are out of combat, feats are in combat" is not in the D&D rules.
    In the case of Elan and Roy escaping Dorukan's dungeon just ahead of the explosion, that looks more like the use of a feat than of a skill.
    Really?

    (From context, I'm guessing you meant the way Elan insisted they couldn't jump until the explosion was right behind them, which...looks like catastrophically bad Wisdom, which luckily we already know Elan has.)

  21. - Top - End - #831
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by pendell View Post
    I'm not a great d20 expert, but I get the impression that skills are something used outside combat , while feats provide bonuses to attack rolls, saving throws, etc.
    I'm afraid you're incorrect on both counts: there are numerous skills that are commonly used during combat, and many feats that don't provide that kind of bonuses.
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  22. - Top - End - #832
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Added Tarquin's Glamored Armor.
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  23. - Top - End - #833
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Malack having Control Winds should be noted.
    THE SCRYING EYE AT THE END OF STRIP #698 WAS ZZ'DTRI'S (SOURCE)

  24. - Top - End - #834
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gift Jeraff View Post
    Malack having Control Winds should be noted.
    He cast it from a scroll. (See panel 3.)
    Last edited by Yendor; 2012-04-14 at 01:05 AM.
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  25. - Top - End - #835
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    He cast it from a scroll. (See panel 3.)
    For some reason, that parsed in my head as "spell."
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  26. - Top - End - #836
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    He cast it from a scroll. (See panel 3.)
    That suggests that Malack doesn't have the Air domain.
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  27. - Top - End - #837
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    That suggests that Malack doesn't have the Air domain.
    Or that he really really wanted to prepare something else in his fifth-level domain slot. Not that Nergal granting the Air domain, despite his wings, is terribly likely.

    On another note, it looks like a full-fledged fight is developing, which is another opportunity to tally damage! So far we have:

    6d6 acid + 6d6 acid + 9d6 acid + 6d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 3d6 falling (24-198)
    6d6 acid + 6d6 acid + 9d6 acid + 6d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 3d6 falling (24-198)
    6d6 acid + 6d6 acid + 9d6 acid + 6d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 3d6 falling (24-198)
    9d6 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 9d6-30 acid + 3d6 falling (12-120)
    3d6 falling (3-18)
    7d6 falling/bludgeoning (7-42)

    The source of the acid damage is obvious. As for the falling damage, the highest a Carpet of Flying, with its 40 ft. fly speed and average maneuverability, can fly in one round is 35 feet.

    V's total damage is 7d6 because rock crushing traps and pit traps deal damage expressed in d6s, and her minimum HP total at level 15 total is 39.
    Last edited by zimmerwald1915; 2012-04-14 at 05:43 AM.

  28. - Top - End - #838
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Malack describes Nergal as a god of Death and Destruction; in the absence of any other evidence I'd guess those were his domains.
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  29. - Top - End - #839
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    Malack describes Nergal as a god of Death and Destruction; in the absence of any other evidence I'd guess those were his domains.
    While I'm sure Nergal offers the Death and Destruction domains, if he offers only two domains, he's the only god I know of who offers so few.

  30. - Top - End - #840
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    Default Re: Class and Level Geekery VIII (spoilers ahoy!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Yendor View Post
    Malack describes Nergal as a god of Death and Destruction; in the absence of any other evidence I'd guess those were his domains.
    Gods usually offer like five domains (or so). Being God of X and Y does not mean a cleric can only pick those. Depending on what Nergal stands for, he might even sport protection, war, chaos, law, evil, ...

    It's not that Selūne in the Forgotten Realms only allows "Moon" and "Travel" as domains... gods usually at least feature their [aligment] (if good or evil, lawful or chaotic).
    Ser Ilyn, Ser Meryn, Queen Cersei, King Joffrey, The Tickler, The Hound, Ser Amory, Polliver, Raff the Sweetling, Weese, Dunsen, Nale, Ser Gregor Clegane and Chiswyck: Winter is coming!

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