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  1. - Top - End - #181
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    Flame of Anor's Avatar

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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Cizak View Post
    So if Belkar were to ever dip his head in white paint to imitate and mock Xykon and the MitD would think Belkar was Xykon, would Xykon gain an appearance?
    I tend to be skeptical of the helpfulness of counting the appearances of impersonators, but under the current rules I believe this would count.
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  2. - Top - End - #182
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    We'll worry about hypotheticals when they become actualities. As far as I can tell, we have two choices. Disguises don't count as the character being impersonated, or we continue to count disguises as the person being impersonated. Once we decide to only count the disguises that we as a community (in a manner to be determined... how?) think are sufficiently believable, the whole thread is in the crapper.

    This standard would also apply to illusions. Does the prison illusion of Belkar count as an appearance for Belkar, even though it uses dialogue Belkar would never say? (We did count it, by the way.) What if the illusion were slightly less believable (yet still believed by the guards)? What if the illusory Belkar had a Hannibal Lecter like mask so you couldn't see his face, but was still Small size, and still used stilted dialogue Belkar wouldn't say?

    Once we open this up to subjective interpretation, it's a nightmare.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  3. - Top - End - #183
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    The most important question for me is: do these disguise/illusion appearances count towards the main total of appearances? For example, Shojo is at 35+16+12. Does Belkar's disguise as Shojo in order to trick Thanh count towards that 35? If so, I think we may want to rethink this.

    I have nothing against tallying the appearances of characters that aren't actually them, but I don't think we should lump them in with appearances that are actually them.
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  4. - Top - End - #184
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Flame of Anor View Post
    The most important question for me is: do these disguise/illusion appearances count towards the main total of appearances? For example, Shojo is at 35+16+12. Does Belkar's disguise as Shojo in order to trick Thanh count towards that 35? If so, I think we may want to rethink this.

    I have nothing against tallying the appearances of characters that aren't actually them, but I don't think we should lump them in with appearances that are actually them.
    Yeah, I'm with Flame of Anor. I feel like it doesn't make much sense to consider characters to have 'appeared' when they aren't actually in the comic, even if somebody is pretending that they have. In-comic reality should be prioritized over in-comic pretense and art, IMO.
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  5. - Top - End - #185
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    What about...

    We count all of these representations of the character as a character appearance (and not just as an alteration), even though it's not the physical body of the character making an appearance. We always have, since well before I was the one doing the tracking.

    And yes, we counted Belkar's poorly made disguise as Shojo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    Q. What counts as an appearance?

    A. Any likeness of the character being visible (so Elan's appearance on Nale's blueprint counts, and Belkar's self-portrait in blood counts) and any dialog from a character, even if "off-panel" or invisible (so the strip where the party is in the invisibility sphere counts for each of the main characters). Also, when someone appears as someone else (for instance when Nale impersonates Elan), that counts as an appearance for both the character in disguise and the character being impersonated.
    Last edited by Wrecan; 2012-05-21 at 08:18 AM.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  6. - Top - End - #186
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    And for the record, even if we were to change the rule, I have no desire to go back through the last 800-something comics and separate out "actual" appearances from non-actual appearances. It's not going to happen.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  7. - Top - End - #187
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    And for the record, even if we were to change the rule, I have no desire to go back through the last 800-something comics and separate out "actual" appearances from non-actual appearances. It's not going to happen.
    Now we have the winning argument. If you want the 'correct' numbers, go through the 853 strips + extras yourself.

  8. - Top - End - #188
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    I'd actually be willing to go through every strip to track down every single "fake" appearance (with people pointing out anything I missed and any errors, natch). Though some questions for the people against counting representations:

    -Do corpses and soulless undead count? For example, if Roy's corpse is in a strip but his spirit isn't, is that still an "actual" appearance?

    -What about petrified characters? They're technically objects and not living creatures.

    -Do illusions that double as recordings count? (Giant illusory head of Shojo and Girard's fake location illusion.)

    -It wasn't clear as to whether Shojo actually appeared to Belkar or not. (I'm inclined to think that it was Belkar's subconscious projecting itself as Shojo.) Should that count as an actual appearance?

    -What about hypothetical scenarios like the archfiends' alternate plan for V or imagined scenarios like when Elan imagines Tarquin adopting Roy?
    Last edited by Gift Jeraff; 2012-05-21 at 12:39 PM.
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  9. - Top - End - #189
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    What about...

    We count all of these representations of the character as a character appearance (and not just as an alteration), even though it's not the physical body of the character making an appearance. We always have, since well before I was the one doing the tracking.
    I would like not to count those either. The tallying problem is a problem. If we can decide on a revised system, though, we can phase in the new counts as people do them (with [old] and [new] tags).
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  10. - Top - End - #190
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Well, that will require someone else to run this thread, because I'm not going to bother with tags.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  11. - Top - End - #191
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    We should have competing 'Number of Character Appearances' threads, with the winner being whomever gets the most votes and replies in a pre-determined period of time. The winner will then be able to post a long, vituperative rant in their opponent's thread about how stupid their method is and how only a character's physical appearance should count/how a visual representation of a person counts as that person being shown in-comic. And also the loser's spouse and/or first-born child.

  12. - Top - End - #192
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    It's really simple. If someone wants to count all the appearances (including bonus materials) and excise all the non-physical appearances, and start a new thread and commit to updating it, I'll stop updating this thread
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  13. - Top - End - #193
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Well, I'm fine with counting illusions, statues, images.

    But in my opinion, every person should be counted once in a comic. With that rule it would be very easy to count out impersonations.

    Still, the impersonations are rare.
    So far, we had only three impersonations (one character posing as another) I can remember: Belkar as Shojo, Tarquin as Thog (4x) and Elan as Cliffport Prison Warden.
    Anything else?

    Alternate selfs and non-specific disguises are more common: Elan as Ogre, Blackwing as Mexican merchant, Celia as Darkblood Gloomgloom, V as lizard/dragon/badger...
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  14. - Top - End - #194
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Does that mean you're volunteering to start and maintain a new thread?
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  15. - Top - End - #195
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    I agree with Wrecan, it isn't really worth going back though every strip for a rule change.
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    If Orcus was a nesting doll, that would certainly make the whole thing work smoother. When you cast a level 1 summoning spell, you summon the little Orcus from the middle, but when you cast Gate, you get the really big Orcus that holds all the small Orcuses.

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  16. - Top - End - #196
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    Does that mean you're volunteering to start and maintain a new thread?
    Me? No.
    I will maintain the Speech Bubbles thread and the german translation thread. That's totally enough. We certainly don't need 2 threads devoted to the exact same topic just with different rules. And as mentioned, the doubled counts of "character X impersonates charakter Y" are so rare, that you can count them using one hand.
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  17. - Top - End - #197
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Except I have absolutely zero problem counting an impersonation as both the impersonator and the impersonated. Other people do. I'm not changing the way I count things.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  18. - Top - End - #198
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    I would agree that changing the way characters are counted now would be way too much a hassle considering how avanced is this thread, however there's one question that just popped in my head:

    If we count impersonations as character appearances, then does Nale posing as Elan count for Elan's total?
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  19. - Top - End - #199
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Yes, it does, and we did count those at the time, as mentioned here.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  20. - Top - End - #200
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by St Fan View Post
    If we count impersonations as character appearances, then does Nale posing as Elan count for Elan's total?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecan View Post
    Yes, it does, and we did count those at the time, as mentioned here.
    Oh. Wow. I forgot about that one. I see that Elans unvoluntary impersonation of Nale also counted. Ah, okay.
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  21. - Top - End - #201
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    854: Malack, Nale, Qarr, Sabine, Tarquin

  22. - Top - End - #202
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Updated through 854
    Malack, Nale, Qarr, Sabine, Tarquin
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  23. - Top - End - #203
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    One reason I think this thread's method makes more since than number of speech bubbles is that in the other thread, Mr. Scruffy has 0 bubbles. That is treason to the king of Azure city
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Grod's Law: You cannot and should not balance bad mechanics by making them annoying to use
    Quote Originally Posted by Flickerdart View Post
    If Orcus was a nesting doll, that would certainly make the whole thing work smoother. When you cast a level 1 summoning spell, you summon the little Orcus from the middle, but when you cast Gate, you get the really big Orcus that holds all the small Orcuses.

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  24. - Top - End - #204
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Wow - every character in this strip has only one name. Looks kind of weird.

    Malack is now just two appearances away from reaching the "Frequent Characters".

  25. - Top - End - #205
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Updated through 855
    Belkar Bitterleaf, Durkon Thundershield, Elan, Haley Starshine, Roy Greenhilt
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  26. - Top - End - #206
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    856: Girard Draketooth (on the mural), Kilkil, Malack, Nale, Qarr, Sabine, Tarquin, Zz'dtri.

    We've also seen some of these Draketooth mummies before, though the only one I remember seeing counted individually was the Draketooth Comedian.

    Not sure if anything else on the mural is identifiable.

  27. - Top - End - #207
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    I can't remeber if we decided to include them, but we can also see the Draketooth Progenitor Dragon, Girard's Grandmother, Father, Aunt, Brother and Sister.
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  28. - Top - End - #208
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Quote Originally Posted by ti'esar View Post
    We've also seen some of these Draketooth mummies before, though the only one I remember seeing counted individually was the Draketooth Comedian.
    Draketooth with braided hair appears in the current comic. All the others have appeared once in the 'Lunchtime' comic, so since that's two appearances they'll all have to be catalogued.

    I think that's how it works, anyway.
    Last edited by Snippy; 2012-06-21 at 03:53 AM.

  29. - Top - End - #209
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    Updated through 856
    Draketooth by Entrance, Draketooth Genealogy (on Genealogical Chart), Draketooth Progenitor Dragon (on Genealogical Chart), Draketooth with Belt (as Mummy), Draketooth with Bodice (as Mummy), Draketooth with Braided Hair (as Mummy), Draketooth with Goatee (as Mummy), Draketooth with Ponytail (as Mummy), Draketooth with Purple Shirt (as Mummy), Girard Draketooth (on Genealogical Chart), Kilkil, Nale, Malack, Qarr, Sabine, Tarquin, Zz'dtri

    Okay, I've decided not to try to parse out the various family members on the genealogical chart. Instead I'm just giving "Draketooth Genealogy" an appearance everytime the chart appears. The only exceptions, for now, are Girard and the Draketooth Progenitor Dragon. If we learn, for example, which pictograph represents Orrin, we'll amend the list accordingly.

    I think that's Draketooth Comedian on the ground. He isn't a mummy.

    The six Draketooth Mummies are, from left to right: Draketooth with Ponytail, Draketooth with Goatee, Draketooth with Braided Hair, Draketooth with Belt, Draketooth with Bodice, and Draketooth with Purple Shirt.
    Last edited by Wrecan; 2012-06-21 at 12:17 PM.
    Here is a numbering of all character appearances in OOTS

  30. - Top - End - #210
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    Default Re: Number of Character Appearances IV

    I think his hair is a little too messy to be the Draketooth Comedian. I'm not sure, though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by martianmister View Post
    Mongolian hordes. Lots of lots of mongolian hordes. With a mongolian warrior chief. They will conquer Gobbotopia and rename it as Mongolitopia. Because that makes so much sense.

    Also ponies.
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    elan: dad plz dont kill roy
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