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2012-02-04, 10:56 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
WARNING: This Thread WILL contain spoilers.
Smallprint: If you are unwilling to hear what MitD might be, or segments from the published books (specially SoD) then this is not a thread for you.
Everyone else: don't bother spoilering or hiding that stuff in this thread. It is what we are here for
ATTENTION: Newcomers, please read:
SpoilerThis thread has, over the last 240 pages, accumulated a lot of knowledge about MitD. However, you don't need to read the whole thread (and the previous four) to get up to speed. So long as you are reasonably familiar with these first five posts, you can jump right in, with no need to read more than the last few pages. On the other hand, please don't be surprised if your insight has been proposed before.
- For relevant MitD canon and in-depth analysis of central MitD scenes, check section 1
- For specific characteristics of MitD, check section 2
- To see all suggestions so far (and particularly, if your idea has been mentioned before), check section 3
- For other analysis, check section 4
- Thread rules and FAQ, check section 5
Section 1: General InformationSection 1a: Directly from Rich
SpoilerRich's Words on MitDSpoilerOriginally Posted by Rich Burlew, in War and XPs c.368Originally Posted by Rich Burlew, in Don't Split the Party- Strip 100 came out Sep 2, 2004, so no creature first published after that time can be considered.
- "It is possible to guess." Any number of people have jumped to the conclusion that it means that MitD must be a famous or iconic creature. The phrase warrants no such conclusion. Instead, all it says is that MitD exists listed somewhere outside OotS - nothing more and nothing less. As such, the iconic status of an idea, or lack thereof, is of no weight whatsoever when considering its fitness as MitD's species.
- "someone will figure it out": related to the above, it specifies that what Rich means by "guess" is not "throwing darts while blindfolded" type of guess, but a rational, follow the clues to a conclusion process. "A potted plant that was eaten and spat out by the Snarl, giving it eyes, a horrible appearance, great strength and the ability to teleport, and look, it can be guessed- I just did!" might fit the first meaning, but not the second.
Rich's Words on Fidelity to D&D RulesSpoilerOriginally Posted by Rich, news item 1/12/2012
- Rich has made mistakes with the powers a character can have (Tsukiko's extra school), but has admitted they are mistakes. The fact he admits it is one, in addition to this quote, indicates that Rich does not routinely give characters powers they wouldn't normally have. In addition, MitD's guessing game would require him to be more careful, not less, about what abilities and powers it displays, such as immunity to mind control.
Published CanonSpoiler
Stereotyped Big Game Hunters, when they capture MitD:Originally Posted by SBGH, SoD
Originally Posted by Circus Public, SoD
Originally Posted by RedCloak, SoD, pg. 88
Originally Posted by Xykon, SoD
Originally Posted by Xykon, SoD
Originally Posted by NCftPB, pg. 194a
Section 1b: Other Info
Spoiler
Legal IssuesSpoilerPlease see section 5a - Inappropriate topics. Discussion of RL law topics is against board rules. What follows is my write-up of the issue, but further discussion will be reported to the moderators.
SpoilerMany ideas proposed in this thread have been the Intellectual Property (IP) of major multinationals. As such, all such ideas have been grouped in section 3c, "copyright ideas". The use of any of these ideas for MitD could potential land Rich Burlew into a heap of trouble, but there are provisions for this in copyright law, under fair use. However, it is likely that fair use cannot be applied to MitD:
If you go to the page on fair use in the wikipedia, it tells of four factors all of which must be included to consider a use of copyright fair use. The first is "purpose and character" and, broadly, says that the parody must be of the copyrighted work, and not of something else - that you may use barbie dolls to parody barbie culture, but not use a photo to parody the US culture in general is the example. MitD might be a parody of D&D, since the comic itself is, but I believe we can all agree that it is not parodying either pokemon or FF or any other work. Indeed, MitD on his own hardly parodies anything. And if it did, MitD would then be an original creation of Rich, just like his "Evil Kitty" brand of umbrella, and as such would violate Rich's assurance that he didn't make MitD up.
The second factor is nature of the copied work. Not being an IP lawyer, I don't understand it fully, but seems to say the copyright holder has a worse chance at retaining copyright if the original work is non-fiction. Since every proposal discussed here is fictional, this is of little relevance - e.g. Square Enix obviously has copyright over any and all of their unique creations, there is no "public interest" in making, say, FF's Black Mages belong to the public domain.
The third factor is amount and substantiality. Since MitD would be a very small part of the original work, this is the only grounds in which Rich might have solid grounding. Recent developments in copyright law, however, have made this target smaller and smaller. Notice that Rich was worried about even single-panel use of some other cartoonists' IP property in the last Dragon Magazine comic.
The fourth factor is effect upon work's value. The important thing here is that the copyright holder need only demonstrate that "such uses in general, if widespread, would harm the potential market of the original". For example, in the case of Final Fantasy's black mage, that its presence in webcomics could potentially harm Square Enix's own plans for a webcomic down the line. This is a very wide allegation, that Rich could not defend against - people might get tired of having FF Black Mages as characters in comics. (Note that parody and criticism are specifically singled out in this category as valid uses, and that MitD is neither).
Finally, outside of the actual law basis, there is one last consideration, that I suspect is at the forefront of Rich's mind when dealing with copyright issues: what is known as the "chilling effects" (scroll down to 'Fair use as a defense'), which comes down to: if accused of copyright violation, it is the defendant (i.e. the person reusing a copyright, i.e. Rich) that has the burden of proof. Square Enix only has to send a lawyer to say before the judge "copyright violation", and Rich would then have to prove it is not. This is almost unsurmountable for an individual that is not in extremely firm ground, and Rich is nowhere near that.
The EscapeSpoiler- It can't be dimension door or blink because those spells have pityable ranges.
- Teleport and Greater Teleport in the standard rules require the caster to go along with the other subejcts of the spell. We have seen teleport work this way in OOTS here and here, and also here we get to see two teleports work this way. In fact there, there are two casters, presumably one divine (raise dead) and one arcane (teleport). Then Soul Spliced V casts (presumably) Teleport and travels along too (though we don't actually see the spell cast, just the resultant "pop"). Finally when we see Epic Teleport, even then the caster (and his spliced spirits) go along for the ride. So although it doesn't absolutely prove that Rich insists the caster always goes along when they Teleport, it really seems to suggest that is the way it works in OOTS, which is the standard D&D rules. Teleport also requires the caster to know the destination, although when that is not the case, a lucky (i.e. plot-induced) roll in the missed teleportation table could have delivered V & O'Chul to the right place anyway.
- It has been suggested that a dimensional anchor/lock cast on MitD's box would prevent him from teleporting, but not from casting it. There is no evidence that such spell has been cast on the box, since the visual effect is a green aura and coloring that is not present on either, but MitD himself may have been hit by the stray (Quickened) Dimensional Anchor cast by V during the preceding battle.
- Alternatively, the Forbiddance spell provides a similar effect to that of dimension lock without the visual component, but would require it to be awkwardly placed to only cover MitD's box, since it doesn't hurt V - this would be a very strange use of a spell designed to cover a whole area from teleport. The chance of MitD remembering the password are slight, too, which would mean he'd be damaged every time he entered the box.
- Standard teleporting rules do require the caster to touch any other travelers, but the rule is not observed in OotS (see any of the prior examples)
- Standard 3.5 edition D&D rules say Plane Shift can be cast so that the caster does not travel along for the ride. However it also says you MUST go to another plane, not another place on the same plane and that "precise accuracy as to a particular arrival point on the intended plane is nigh impossible". Also that "creatures must find their own way back". O-Chul and V make no mention of "getting back" and have no apparent means to plane shift. Note that in most occasions plane shift has been depicted with a kind of "window" opening, but not always.
- It has been suggested that MitD could have plane-shifted them to a good plane (e.g. Souther Gods' domain), and then where teleported back by an agent of good.
- Wish and the psionic ability "reality revision" are stated as being able to "Transport Travelers. A wish can lift one creature per caster level from anywhere on any plane and place those creatures anywhere else on any plane regardless of local conditions".
- Miracle can "Move you and your allies along with your and thier gear from one plane to another through planar barriers to a specific locale with no chance of error".
- Limited Wish doesn't say anything about travelling or transportation explicitly.
- The Epic Spell "Dreamscape" could be interpreted as providing the "Escape" capabilitiy, (see Dream Larva)
The Tower SceneSpoilerIt is likely that Rich bent the rules of D&D to show the point about MitD being both amazingly strong and a credible threat to the OotS. Nevertheless, Nerdanel has done an analysis of the feats and strength necessary for the scene to work in accordance to the rules. Find the relevant posts here, here and here.
Section 1c: Useful Links
Version History
Spoiler1.0 Up to date to end of Previous thread
1.4 Up to date to end of page 20
1.6 Up to date to end of page 30
1.8 Up to date to end of page 40
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-06-26 at 09:14 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-02-04, 10:57 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Section 2: MitDSection 2a: Physical Characteristics
SpoilerAgeSpoilerMitD's first appearance in SoD happens "29 years ago" (SoD pg. 49). This is measured back from comic 1, so MitD is at least 30 years old.
AppearanceSpoilerMitD's appearance is both disgusting and beautiful, to judge from the reactions of the circus crowd (see 1a SoD Canon). It is ugly enough to provoke vomiting in the stands, but still cause someone to exclaim "And yet... beautiful".
BodySpoilerRedCloak suggest that he could use MitD as material to create undead, which suggests he has a physical body (e.g. not a fire elemental)
DietSpoilerMitD is almost constantly hungry, thus probably indicating a species that requires food (but it isn't stated).
Take into account:
- He is not at all picky about his food, having been shown to eat almost anything ("His palate can't be that refined", dibs on a moldy cheeseburguer in sock drawer).
- He has preference for stew (See SoD, and here).
- He feels weird to eat babies (including veal), but not adults.
- He has eaten scrabble tiles, and apparently didn't find them to his taste (but he was expecting donuts)
GenderSpoiler
HeadSpoiler
- Eyes: MitD has two yellow eyes, next to each other.
- Face: RC makes reference to stabbing him in the face (War and XPs, page 415a)
- Mouth: MitD presumably has a mouth, since he has a tongue and teeth (that leave toothmarks in a taco in SoD). It must be rather large, since Xykon instructs him to "devour [RedCloak] whole"
LimbsSpoilerMitD has got stomping ability while holding an umbrella. No specific limbs are identified (feet/paws/tail?), but the use of the verb stomp requires physical limbs, whatever they are. He also leaves tracks, which Belkar can't identify (but he's a lousy tracker). The limbs are also dextrous enough to hold crayons (War and XPs page 415a) and draw (lack of quality may indicate clumsy apendages, or lack of maturity).
Since he was able to both step on and pull on the rope at the same time, he must have or be able to produce at least two limbs, one of which must be prehensile.
MaturitySpoilerMitD has consistently acted in very immature fashion, which could be his personality, or it could indicate he is a child of his species.
Take into account:
- He is over 30 years old (see Age)
- He hasn't changed all that much in size or personality since his earliest appearance
- Many creatures (including demons and angels) have a really hard time fitting as MitD because of his child-like behaviour.
Personal OdorSpoilerMitD has frequently apologized for his personal odor. This could explain the reaction in the circus, although it would need to address the reason why the odor doesn't affect the public until after he is lighted up.
- It has been suggested that MitD's personal smell could be a hint towards the Stench ability
SizeSpoilerSince his first appearance, MitD has fit in a box this size, and under this umbrella. This makes him human-sized or large.
Take into account:
- Rich has been known to mess around with sizes of creatures in the comic (Inexplicably large faeries), but to this date he has only made small creatures larger, never bigger ones smaller.
- MitD could be a young member of his race (see Maturity)
- He's probably taller than a kobold:
Originally Posted by War and XPs c.368 - If you do not object to using templates (see 3a: Templated Creature), the Dungeonbred template can be used to reduce his size by one category, theoretically allowing for huge creatures (but does carry the disadvantages of templates)
- RedCloak was able to lift him and his box onto a wagon in SoD
- Due to RedCloak's likely build (spell-oriented cleric), this can be disregarded as a clue, since it is entirely possible that RC isn't strong enough to lift even the empty box, never mind MitD's weight inside (unless MitD is buoyant).
SleepSpoilerMitD has been shown sleeping in various occasions (in SoD, and after O'chul's and V's teleportation), and has admitted to becoming sleepy, so it is reasonable to assume he requires sleep (but it isn't stated).
Section 2b: AbilitiesSpoiler
AttackSpoilerMitD attempts to "hit as lightly as possible" and still sends both Miko and her horse flying through a wall, off a tower and long distance (the tower in nowhere to be seen, the mountains are far away).
Take into Account:
- If proposing a "child" or "runt" of a species known for great strength, the dissonance between his undeveloped personality and adult strength needs to be addressed.
- See here a post examining possible ways the punch could have happened by the rules.
DefencesSpoilerMitD did not notice 5 attacks from Belkar and feels tickles when attacked by Miko.
Take into Account:
- It could indicate piercing/slashing resistance, DR, high AC, high HP or a combination thereof.
- He got a paper cut from trying to eat a letter, indicating he can hurt himself (e.g. overcoming epic resistance, if he himself is epic, or indicating a natural armour that doesn't protect his insides), or Rule of Funny
- Miko believes he has DR
- RC knows he cannot possibly injure MitD by stabbing him in the face (see War and XPs, page 415a)
Earth CrackingSpoilerMitD cracks the earth by stomping on it.
Suggestions:
- Consequence of his great strength: sending horses flying through walls and for kilometers take about as much strength as causing the Earth to crack.
- Earthquake ability: like that of an Earth Elemental, or some other specific spell-like ability in that sense.
KnowledgeSpoilerEven though MitD displays lack of maturity (see 2a: Maturity), he has displayed flashes of brilliance:- O'Chul's comment he learnt Go! quickly
- His ability to tell that a ritual was only the second half of a whole
- He admits he doesn't actually try to think, and that he lets Xykon and RedCloak think for him
- If MitD is psionic, it can be explained by hypercognition
O'Chul's EscapeSpoilerWe know from Rich's words (see section 1a) that MitD was responsible for O'Chul's and V's escape.
Suggestions:
- Teleportation Spell: in D&D, teleportation requires the spell caster to travel with the targets, and more often than not to be touching the other targets.
- Wish: Very few creatures can cast wish, but would explain the situation well. In its favour, MitD is surprised when his wishes don't come true (but that could be his child personality).
- Plane shifting: Many creatures have this spell, but has most of the disadvantages of teleportation, plus O'Chul's and V's escape does not match the effect of plane shift (in that they ended up in the same plane)
- See also Section 1b for an in-depth analysis of teleportation options in D&D
Take into Account:
- MitD may have been hit by V's missed dimension anchor, explaining why he didn't go along if it was a teleportation effect.
- Plane Shift, in particular, doesn't necessarily affect the caster (it has succesfully been used offensively in OotS)
- It has been pointed out that if it were a spell, MitD would have had to say its name out loud, which typically a spell requires (but not an extraordinary, spell-like ability or supernatural ability). On the other hand, not all spells have been said out loud in-comic (example: Xykon's mental suggestion in SoD, Redcloak passing his Trial Of Becoming A Hobgoblin with a silent Slay Living), so it doesn't discard a spell either.
- Other systems have spells or abilities named "Escape"
PsionicsSpoilerIt has been suggested that MitD may have psionic abilities since we never see his limbs holding up objects, and as an avenue to explain his other powers. If he only starts to actively use psionics at the time of escape ("unshackling" his mind due to the stress of the situation), it would also tie with Rich's comment about discovering powers deep inside himself (see Section 1a - Rich's Words). Also, it would explain why he tends to be tired after using his powers.
Take into account:
- During the Go game, his turn starts and end, and yet we don't see him place a counter. But at the circus, he has to rock his box to get to the stew. Rich may have skipped the dialogue where MitD told O'Chul were to place his counter just to reduce the wordiness of that page, though.
- MitD is unaware of most of his powers, which doesn't suggest his mind is making them happen (so it would only explain the escape, if at all).
- RedCloak, who knows what MitD is, had to research if psionics existed in OotS-verse. If MitD is psionic, why was it so difficult to know? (it has been suggested he may have templated psionic ability, and as such his psionics not be part of his species). On the other hand, creatures can be psionic or not depending on the setting. RC could have known about the mind flayer in Dorukan's Dungeon, and still not know if psionic powers did exist.
- If MitD wasn't actively psionic until the escape, it would also constitute an explanation: RC tested him for psionic powers and, finding none, couldn't decide if psionics existed or not.
- The lack of visible limbs is likely a combination of the minimalistic drawing style of the comic and Rich's desire to not show us what MitD is.
- MitD had to tip the circus cage to get to the bucket of stew; presumably a psionic creature could simply levitate the bucket (but MitD may be unaware of his abilities)
- The fact that no hand is seen holding the umbrella is a style issue where the hand is behind the object, rather than around it. Belkar holds his daggers in the same way
Rain
Raising undeadSpoilerMitD probably does not have the ability to raise undead, but might be used as raw material. At the very least, he does not have 5 levels of cleric, although it has been pointed out he may have the capability but due to his innocence/incompetence he has never used it, leading RC to believe he cannot without gaining cleric levels first. That said, RC would probably have checked MitD's MM entry, and be aware of all its powers, regardless of which one MitD uses.
SpeechSpoilerthe Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surpised MitD could speak, and in common (see 1b SoD Cannon)
- This is usually interpreted as a lampshade: his species can't or won't talk, but Rich changed it for plot purposes.
- Alternatively, MitD's species could have been confused with a similar species, which while rare and valuable, is not capable of speech.
- Note that the wording could indicate both species incapable of speech, and species that normally wouldn't talk (like Zodars).
It has been pointed out that MitD's speech bubbles are black text on white background, unlike demons, who tend to have red-on-black and undead, who tend to have white-on-black. However, there is one demon who has a normal voice, Sabine, so it is probably not a good indicator of species.
ShoutSpoilerMitD can shout loud enough that it gives Belkar pause. This may or may not be an actual shout attack, although neither Belkar nor Haley were damaged, but they may have been Shaken, as in Frightful Presence.
Summoning Demon RoachesSpoilerMitD was not responsible for the Demon Roaches following team evil - as per SoD, they first attached to Xykon and RC in an evil dinner where Xykon used to get his coffee (in his pre-Lich days). MitD may have attracted more of them, but not the original group. As such, it is unlikely that their presence indicates anything about MitD. That said, the Demon Roaches are 4th-wall breaking rule of funny most of the time, regardless of their origin.
Section 2c: Other CharacteristicsSpoiler
CategoriesSpoilerMitD cannot belong to any of the following:
- NOT a deity (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
- NOT Construct (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
- NOT Elemental (eats, and desires to eat; sleeps)
- NOT Ooze (has a body)
- NOT Plant (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
- NOT Undead (eats, sleeps, etc)
- NOT Vermin (vulnerable to mind-affecting effects)
Challenge RatingSpoilerRich intends the MitD to be a credible challenge for the heroes - the watchtower scene was included for that reason, as explained by Rich. Since Rich likely has a target level the party will achieve by the time they face MitD, MitD must have a CR at or above this level. As a rule of thumb, CR18 or higher is preferred, Epic levels being better.
Connection to the Astral PlaneSpoilerMitD seems to know the Astral Plane's characteristics.
Considerations:
- He doesn't remember having been there
- Xykon is surprised at this
- It could be just a successful knowledge roll, or that he was taken there at some point in the past
- In the past, it displayed extreme ignorance of the planes
DarknessSpoilerAs per NCftPB (see section 1a - Published Canon), the darkness that surrounds MitD is magical in its nature. Xykon's instructions imply that they are independent of MitD, since he can step or leap out of them (i.e. leave them behind)
Drawing CluesSpoilerEven though MitD is always in darkness, it has been suggested that by carefully noting the placement of his eyes, and of anything he manipulates, his general shape can be deduced. The general consensus is that he is either walking crouched or has four legs on the floor (from the placing of the stomp), and that he has a long reach (as when pulling on the rope: 9th panel). Take into account that this is debatable, and that MitD has not necesarily been drawn consistently
Also, it has been brought up multiple times that the go board is a cryptoclue about MitD. Unfortunately, there is no agreement on what image they show, with people having identified it as Tarrasque, PvP's Skull, a demon, or an 8-bit sprite from some NES game (also, one jokingly suggested it looked like Pepe le Pew due to the color scheme). It is likely a case of pareidolia
EnvironmentSpoilerThe Stereotyped Big Game Hunters were surprised to find him deep in a rainforest. This discards rainforest as his environment, but leaves everything else open.
FamilySpoilerMitD remembers his dad "sort of" as BIG and even a bigger eater than he is.
Considerations:
- MitD could have been "adopted" by another species completely, just as he is in the wrong environment
- MitD is still young and will eventually be as big as he remembers his father to have been
- MitD might have a warped mental image of his father, from remembering as "big" when MitD himself was smaller; as such, he may already be as big as his father used to be.
- MitD is mixed breed, and his father is larger than he will ever be
Knowledge of MitDSpoilerMitD is very difficult to identify. Only the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters and RedCloak (see Section 1a) have claimed to know what he is, while what looks like a wizard in the circus audience admitted he'd never seen anything like it. MitD believes Xykon also knows what he is.
- It has been suggested that the hunters may have confused MitD with a different, less powerful but similar looking species that nevertheless is still rare. There have been no practical examples of this yet. Stereotypical Big Game Hunters, however, are seldom wrong about their prey.
Mental ResistanceSpoilerIn SoD (pg.96), Xykon was able to command MitD (as evidenced by MitD's swirly eyes), indicating MitD is not immune to mind-affecting spells.
SpeciesSpoilerMitD was declared by the Stereotyped Big Game Hunters to be "one of these", indicating that there are more than one of him.
Section 2d: AugmentationSpoilerA number of ways to increase creatures capabilities to match those shown by MitD have been proposed. All of them have the same general problem: they likely violate Rich's assurance that he didn't invent MitD and that it can be figure out. To illustrate these issues, consider two examples:
BingosaurusSpoilerThe argument most commonly cited in favour of augmentations is that it is not a Rich creation if Rich merely uses already existing rules to create MitD, such as adding tempaltes, feats, class levels, etc. But there are rules for making your own monsters, spells, etc.
Nothing is stopping Rich from making what is for all intents and purposes a Bingosaurus* complete with an insatiable hunger for stew and yellow eyes, using rules that were published prior to comic #100. He will then furnish it with Bingo's epic earthquake (which functions like a regular earthquake except it is much more awesome and can be aimed in a direction), Wish and Bingo's Commanding You To Stop ability, DC100, at will
*Named after Lord Bingo, original proponent of this counterexample.
Binks' Mystery SwordSpoilerRelated to the above, the second most common argument in favour of augmentations is that since the rules exist, it can be figured out. By the same logic, a DM could hand a character a custom magic item like Binks' Mystery Sword* and not tell his player what it does because the DM didn't invent it, instead followed the rules, so clearly the player can figure out what it does on his own.
*Named after Binks, original proponent of this counterexample.
The augmentation ideas presented so far are:
FeatsSpoilerWhen a creature is promoted beyond its base CR, with every 3 HD added, the DM can also add a feat. Of interest to this thread are the two following feats:
- Mighty Roar: allows a creature, once per day, to make a dreadful roar that renders everyone nearby shaken for x rounds. Pre-requisite: be an animal or magical beast of at least large size.
- Stamp: allows a creature to make a shockwave with a radius of a number of squares equal to their HD. Creatures within the radius that fail a balance check vs the stamper's attack roll are knocked down; structures are also damaged by the shockwave, which could explain the ground being torn up if one is generous with the definition of 'structure'. Prerequisites: have feet, be at least huge size, and have the trample attack.
Cons:
- No Wish feat
- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact number of extra HD added by "the DM" is not really guessable.
- Size issues: MitD is likely Medium sized; while large is possible, huge is likely too big.
- MitD is clearly lazy, and thus has little canon support for the idea that he has developed beyond the average of his species (quite the opposite, in fact). His father being bigger than he is also argues against this (more HD eventually makes the monster bigger).
Templated/Mixed lineage CreatureSpoilerA whole range of possibilities, it suggests MitD is a stack of Templates rather than a specific monster type.
Pros: Can be templated to have:
- Teleportation
- Psionics
- Earthquake
- Unnerving Gaze
Cons:
- No Wish template
- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since the exact base type and templates use is not really guessable.
- Unless the exact combination of templates and base creature has been used elsewhere, it can be argued that an original template stack would be a Rich invention.
- Its unlikely that a one-in-a-lifetime combination of templates would be so common that the hunters call it "one of these"
- No actual evidence of MitD having different species parents
Proposed combinations:
- half giant war troll of legend
- Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque
- Baby Awakened Fiendish Half-Efreeti Tarrasque
- Paragon!something
- Phrenic Ephemeral Hangman
- Phrenic Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque Wilder 1
- Phrenic Tarrasque Wilder 1
- Half-Orc Half-Dragon
- Radiant Phrenic Half-Earth Elemental Half-Dragon (Crystal) Tarrasque
- Pseudonatural Phrenic Tarrasque
- Pseudonatural greater barghast servitor of the Dark One
Pimp my Tarrasque
SpoilerGiven the huge number of such combinations suggested for the Tarrasque, this approach is also known as Pimp my Tarrasque:
Class LevelsSpoilerOnly useful to explain the escape scene, it suggests MitD has 18+ class levels of Sorcerer, which would allow him to cast wish even if the base creature normally wouldn't (assuming it has at least 18 CHA).
Cons:
- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has not shown any other spell from those 18 levels
- It is unexplained how MitD would even gain 18 levels, given his general lazyness
- It would require MitD to have forgotten he gained those levels ("discovers powers that he didn't even know he had")
ReincarnationSpoilerThis idea suggests that MitD used to be a powerful spellcaster (level 18 or more) that dies and used a Reincarnation spell to reincarnate as a rare animal.
Cons:- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since there has been no mention of the possibility of reincarnation in the comic, and it would make figuring out what MitD almost impossible
AbominationSpoilerIt has been claimed that there is a way for Rich to create his own abomination. Some abomination traits are similar in their description to MitD's eating habits.
Cons:- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words
- Almost certainly violates the "didn't create it" clause in Rich's words
- Abominations are immune to mind control
PsychicSpoilerFrom a third-party book published just months before strip 100, if offers a number of powers similar to teleport and others, except using "psychic powers".
Cons:- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a) since MitD has shown no psychic abilities, and if he did, they are too easily confused with psionics
Unbridled ShapeshifterSpoilerBy RAW, a shapeshifting creature can gain a large number of abilities by successive shapeshifting into the correct creatures, gaining their magical powers and access to ways to make those changes permanent. The ur-example of this is Pun Pun, the shapeshifting all-powerful kobold. Combined with some form of convenient amnesia you could create a creature very much like MitD, no matter what powers MitD turns out to posses.
Cons:- Probably violates the "figured out" clause in Rich's words (see Section 1a)
- Rich has been very outspoken about his views on this kind of shapeshifting, including a series of articles on how to fix it.
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-08-12 at 09:24 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
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2012-02-04, 11:00 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2007
Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Section 3: Proposed Ideas
Section 3a: Suggestions that Fit the Big Scenes (FBS)SpoilerThis category groups ideas that fit the "big 3" scenes of MitD: the circus scene (particularly the requirement to both be a circus act where nothing is done, and the varied response from the public), the tower scene (that is, the ability to punch a person and a horse through a wall when trying to "hit light") and the escape scene (i.e. teleportation of O'Chul and V). The proposals may still have other objections (such as size problems, or simply that the above explanations require stretching the rules of D&D), but must NOT belong to the discarded categories (see Section 2c: Categories), unless they are somehow exceptional (e.g. an undead that eats burgers and sleeps).
Aboleth MageSpoilerPros:
- 28 Strength
- Effective caster level 16th would allow him to have greater teleport
- Appearance: "The aboleth is a revolting fishlike amphibian" but charisma 14 could count as "beautiful" for someone that isn't too nauseated by fish-like beings
- Can only speak languages that are used underwater - would be surprising to hear him speak out of the water, and in common no less.
- Very rare to be found outside of their natural environment (water)
- Grows bigger as it ages - father would be bigger than MitD
- Eating creatures gives him their memories, which would explain why he doesn't like to eat babies (no memories - bland and boring food) and why he likes stew (he never knows what he's going to get, it's a big surprise!)
Cons:
This creature could be considered the "almost" FBS suggestion.
- Strength is almost to the 30 used as rule of thumb for the tower scene, but not quite there
- Huge, almost small enough to fit in the box - and if made any smaller by age or template, he'd be too weak
- CR17 is almost to the rule of thumb expected power level
- 3 eyes - almost the right amount - vertically stacked.
- Study-based spellcasting is a poor fit for MitD, who is never seen studying spells
Dread Linnorm (MM2 141)SpoilerPros:
- Huge Strength
- Wish (Sorcerer Levels)
- Ugly (with high Charisma)
Cons:
- Colossal - requires him to be a runt, which brings problems re: high-level spell access
- Two Heads - requires a reason why it lost one (e.g. decapitation)
- Immunity to all spells of the enchantment school
Hagunemnon (Protean) (SRD or ELH 196)SpoilerPros:
- Great strength (53)
- teleportation (plane shift) abilities
- Access to Planar Travel through convenient partial shapeshift into Umbral Blot, which includes greater teleport
- As a psionic creature, it may have been converted by the means described in the Expanded Psionics handbook, which would give him psionic teleport
- adequate size
- his shapeshifting sounds disturbing, but has 34 CHA.
- Has no languages, thus being surprising it can talk.
- Its psionic ability to detect thoughts would explain his knowledge of the ritual, probably having heard RC's thoughts on the subject.
Cons:
- Plane shift doesn't fit well with the escape as shown (see 1b: The Escape), and while greater teleport fits slightly better, it requires a timely shapeshift into the exact appropriate creature. There is no evidence that psionic-class creatures have been converted as per EP handbook.
- Its powers are psionic-based (see 2b Psionics).
- Its constant shapeshifting has not been reflected in a change of MitD (mouth and eyes stay roughly the same)
Neothelid (SRD or XPH 204)SpoilerPros:
- Fairly high strength (30)
- Psionic Teleport at will
- Vomit-inducing, since it's a gigantic worm with tentacles
- Heavy eating
- Rarely communicates in a meaningful way
- Its ability to Trace Teleport would explain how it knew where to send O'Chul and V
Cons:
- Difficulty explaining the earthquake and the stomp, lacking legs.
- Defences not that great
- No eyes
- Gargantuan
Schlock Mercenary's Carbosilicate AmorphSpoilerPros:- Can use a teraport to teleport
- Incredible strength and fighting abilities. Invulnerable to anything short of plasma weapons.
- Looks like a pile of poo
- Endearing and adorable
- Fits under the umbrella easily, but his dad could have been bigger if he had eaten recently
- Famous for his unbridled appetite.
- Rich could probably secure copyright from Howard Tayler
Cons:- Rich probably wouldn't use a SF character from another comic in his fantasy comic.
Slaad (ELH 217)SpoilerWhite/Black slaads only.
Pros:- Very strong, epic defences
- Can teleport others
- Disgusting appearance (humanoid toad)
- Not inmune to mind-affecting spells
- White one fits in the box/umbrella. Black only in the box.
Cons:- Tricky reproduction cycle means black/white slaads are unlikely to have a "father" (unless it is of the foundling variety).
- MitD would have to be over 300 years old, having evolved through green, grey and death slaad varieties. This does not mesh well with his mental characteristics. (unless Rich has bent the reproduction flavor text)
- It may be Product Identity (listed as such in d20.org, but not in the WotC legal documentation).
- Even if it is, it may not be impossible for Rich to use it for free, unlike trademarked creatures.
- Can talk common, and thus wouldn't surprise the hunters that he can talk. Unless, that is, slaads usually talk like this (but this is probably Rule of Funny)
- It may be too recognisable as a humanoid toad to fit the wizard's comment in the circus scene.
UvuudaumSpoilerPros:
- greater teleport available 3 times a day as an SLA explains the escape
- very high strength (39), is very ugly but has extremely high charisma (46)
- large bonuses to knowledge:arcana and spellcraft explains understanding of the ritual
- Large size, so fits in the box (not so much under the umbrella)
- Normally communicates with telepathy, not by speaking, so it's surprising it talks.
- A confusion aura could explain reactions in the circus, particularly if it's weakened by MitD being a youngster of the species.
Cons:- Might not have eyes or mouth (unmentioned in description, not present in pictures)
- His confusion aura should give everyone missing saves around him swirly eyes, but no such thing is visible in the circus scene.
Section 3b: Frequently Proposed Unlikely IdeasSpoiler
These ideas have been frequently brought up, but they fail in a major way that presents a major problem. If you are considering them, please address the problem listed in your initial post.
Tarrasque (SRD or MM 240)SpoilerTarrasque is an iconic creature, famed for eating a lot and sleeping a lot. Unfortunately, there is no particular reason to think that MitD is an iconic creature, and Tarrasque brings several other issues to the table, the most important of which is its lack of teleportation/wishing abilities. Other issues: Tarrasque is traditionally unique and non-reproducing (not part of a species) and far bigger than can fit under an umbrella.
Snarl jrSpoilerProbably the #1 proposed idea, the "son-of-Snarl" has a major problem: it does not match Rich's words that MitD is a monster someone else (i.e. not him) invented (see Section 1a: "it isn't something I just made up for the story" & "I realize that the line between something I made up and something someone else made up is a pretty fine one, but I trust that someone will figure it out eventually"). Snarl has also not displayed any form of teleportation magic, nor any particular appetite, nor need to sleep.
Furthermore, Snarl has been kept a major secret - it's unlikely that the hunters would know, or that they have seen so many Snarl Jr.s running around they can talk about not having seen "one of these".
GrueSpoilerCan challenge any lone adventurer, has insatiable appetite and sparse descriptions mention it being horrible. However, it wouldn't desire to be lighted as MitD does, and it is not known to have magic (e.g. teleportation). Note that MitD has been in the light before joining team evil, both in the jungle and specially in the circus, and has never shown any discomfort from being in the light.
Pun-Pun & FamilySpoilerPun-Pun isn't really something that can be classified as "one of those", and it seems likely that Rich made a joke of this idea when MitD suggested he might be a kobold, only to be told he's to tall for a kobold
Section 3c: Copyrighted IdeasSpoilerAll ideas listed here, regardless of how well they fit, have a major problem: they are trademarked, or otherwise unavailable for Rich's use due to legal issues (see Section 1b Legal Issues)
Boggart (Harry Potter)
Diawolf
Domo-kun
Father (KND)
FF Black Mage
FF Red Mage
Godzilla & pals
Gozer (Ghostbusters)
Haggunenon (HHGTTG)
Heffalump
Kirby
SnorlaxSpoilerA great fit, since "They can throw incredibly powerful punches and cause immense earthquakes", is known for its huge appetite (including his ability to eat moldy food) and its sleeping. It also grows from a much smaller pokemon, Munchlax, and fits in the box as an adult (6' 11''). Using Metronome, it could have a plot-casuality induced access to "escape from battle" abilities.
Shadow (from Babylon 5)
SMT3 and Persona 3 and 4 (from Megami Tensei)
Skull (from PvP)
Tonberri
Vatch (from Witches of Karres)
Vorlon (from Babylon 5)
Weeping Angel (from Dr. Who)
Ygramul (Neverending Story)
Yoshi
Q (from Star Trek)
Section 3d: Proposed ideasSpoiler
Ideas that have been proposed, but cannot explain all 3 major MitD scenes (circus; tower; escape. See 3a)
Anaxim (SRD or ELH 158)SpoilerConstruct, no teleportation.
Astral DreadnaughtSpoileronly one eye, gargantuan, can't explain the escape
Atropal (SRD or ELH 159)SpoilerUndead: doesn't eat or sleep.
BakuSpoiler28 STR, probability travel might be a form of teleport (unclear), fairly unrecognisable. However, also not specially disgusting looking.
Barghest (SRD or MM 22)SpoilerPros:
- Eats a lot, and gets stronger as he eats (reference)
- Greater Barghest has dimension door
Cons:
- Not really all that strong, (max 20)
- No earthquake ability
- Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well
- can speak (but not in common)
Black TrollSpoilerLarge, ugly as every troll, but looking demonic on top. Can cast Teleportation without error, explaining the escape (but not what the hell a troll is doing with that spell and 10 INT and CHA). Unfortunately, not quite strong enough.
Brachyurus (SRD or ELH 170)SpoilerStrong and relatively ugly, but can't explain the escape
Braxat (MM2 37)SpoilerNot particularly strong, CR9 and can only explain the escape with Dimension Door.
Brood Keeper (MM3)SpoilerCan't explain the escape, the fear aura doesn't fit the circus scene, too big, not strong enough. Rich may have had a hand in their creation.
BigfootSpoilerVery strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
Centaur (SRD or MM 32)SpoilerNot strong enough, can't explain the earthquake, the tower scene, the circus scene or the escape.
Cherub (four-faced version)SpoilerPros:
- Strength of 36.
- "four-sided head with the faces of a lion, ox, eagle, and man," which can be disgusting
- Wish as an SLA, easily explains the escape
- Has earthquake as a power, could explain the stomp.
- Large size
- Can be advanced to gargantuan, meaning that MitD's "father" could be either another larger cherub who was raising him or just a god specifically.
- Strange to find a cherub in a rainforest.
Cons:
- Like most angelic hosts and demonic armies, it is hard to understand how it went unrecognised in the circus act - most people would have heard of them at their religious service of choice.
- OotS Cherubs don't look like that.
- Four sets of eyes
- Unsurprising it can talk common (can talk all languages)
- SBGH would probably not likely sell divine beings into slavery
- Immune to mind-affecting spells and abilities.
- Doesn't really fit with why Xykon and Redcloak expect him to be "scary" and eat children
Chi YouSpoilerVaguely defined. Weird looking, but not particularly revolting. Can speak.
CoeurlSpoilerCR4, nowhere near powerful enough. Can't explain the escape
Corpse Tearer Linnorm (MM2 141)SpoilerStrong and with access to miracle, but only through cleric spells, which would give him Animate Dead, which MitD is known not to be able to cast
CrystalleSpoilerCan cast Wish, but limited since the ioun stone has limited charges. STR 33. Cons: appearance not particularly disgusting; Elemental: doesn't eat or sleep.
CuatlSpoilerCannot explain the escape (caster level not high enough), since it has cleric abilities, should be able to help RC
Dao (MoP 172)Spoileraka "earth genie". Pros:
- Can grant wishes
- Can cast earthquake
- Has a "shove" ability to push enemies
Cons:
- Unsurprising it can talk
- CR6, little strength, no defences
- Not unusually ugly
- Unclear how father would be "bigger and hungrier"
DisenchanterSpoilerNot strong enough, cannot explain the escape, not powerful enough to be Xykon's Ace in the Hole.
Displacer Beast (MM 60)SpoilerCan't explain the escape, not strong enough
Dragon (SRD or MM 68 + most MMs)SpoilerPros:
- Decent defences
- they like to eat and sleep
Cons:
- They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
- They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.
DraknorSpoilerSprouts from the ground, but we have seen MitD in high floors of towers.
Dream Larva (SRD or ELH 161)SpoilerPros:
- Worst Nightmare ability explains circus' reactions (as long as it is a 'young' dream larva, so that it is not immediately lethal)
- Very strong (42), high CR, defences and DR
- Dreamscape allows teleportation, with a certain amount or rules bending (see here for an explanation)
Cons:
- Immune to mind-affecting effects
- Dreamscape doesn't explain the escape all that well
- Not known for its appetite, or its need to sleep
- Unclear if a young dream larva can even exist, and would be less lethal than an adult one.
Earth Elemental (SRD or MM 97)SpoilerUnstated how it would cause the escape, it cannot provide material for undead
EfreetSpoilerNot powerful enough in D&D, regardless of how powerful they were in the original mythology
Enveloper (1e FF)SpoilerInsufficient strength, it's main ability of absorbing powers (thus explaining the escape scene), would also give MitD knowledge that would be at odds with his known naïvety and ignorance.
Ephemeral Hangman (ToM 161)SpoilerPros:- Looks like a mass of black tentacles centered around a large maw and a trunklike body.
- Large, but when in darkness or shadowy illumination, it can fit into spaces that appear too small for it
- The base species prefers eating children "and others too small and weak to fight back"
Cons:- Can't explain the escape scene
- Probably too weak: CR7, STR 22
Epic Dragon (SRD or ELH 181)SpoilerPros:
- Have access to Wish
- Very strong
- Like most dragons, it likes to eat and sleep
Cons:
- They don't get the kind of strength and powers needed until they are way too big for the box.
- Beautiful (sp. prismatic)
- They are very recognisable, and thus don't match the circus' reactions.
Fiendwurm (MM2 99)Spoilerstrong and known for eating constantly, can't talk, can send people to the Abyss, but that explains the escape very badly if at all, and lack of limbs and gargantuan size are problematic.
Fihyr, GreaterSpoilertoo many eyes, not strong enough, not challenging enough, can't explain the escape.
Formian MyrmarchSpoilerNot strong enough to explain the tower scene
General OxSpoilerSorcerer with access to 9th level spells, and STR 36. Doesn't quite match the circus scene's public reactions
Genie/Djinn (SRD or MM 114)Spoilerwhile able to cast wish, they can talk, they are not particularly ugly, and they're nowhere near powerful enough for MitD
GhourSpoilerDecently strong, but insufficient CR and too big. Being a demon, it's morality and 'father' doesn't match well MitD's.
Giant Space HamsterSpoilerNot strong enough, no magical powers, not ugly enough for the circus scene
Gibbering Orb (SRD or ELH 191)SpoilerCan't stomp due to lack of limbs. Shouldn't leave tracks. Too many eyes and mouths. No explanation for Escape, except far-fetched "ate someone with access to wish the day before".
Girard (Member of the Order of the Scribble)SpoilerUnsurprising it can talk, wouldn't be exhibited as a circus freak, wouldn't be hunted by the SBGH, is now known to be dead.
Glabrezu (SRD or MM 43)SpoilerPros:- Access to wish
- Fairly powerful
Cons:- Too big
- No parent
- Unlikely to change morality (since it is a denizen of a morality plane)
- Low CR
GloomSpoilerFairly strong, very powerful, but has no eyes, shadow walk isn't quite good enough to explain the escape and "tall, very dark, elf-eared person with a cloak" is not exactly "I've never seen anything like it before"
GoristroSpoilerHuge, and can't teleport, or explain the escape in any other way. See also Pit Fiend.
Gozilla (& family)SpoilerToo big, unclear how they account for the escape. Copyright issues possible
Gray Render (SRD or MM 138)SpoilerToo many eyes, and unclear how it accounts for the escape.
GrendelSpoilerUnclear how it accounts for the escape scene, except if it were demon-spawn due to conversion to D&D, which is a very big stretch. Difficulty addressing its strength, defences, earthquake ability.
Grey Slaad (MM 231)Spoilercan teleport people both within a plane and between planes, but so-so strength
Guardinal, LeonalSpoilerNot strong enough, aura of fear for evil creatures should have been seen in the comic.
Gug (CoC)Spoiler(From Call of Cthulhu) Very ugly, and causes loss of sanity when looked at. Has a small chance of knowing how to teleport, but is not strong enough, particularly if young version is assumed due to size problems.
Ha-Naga (SRD or ELH 195)SpoilerAccess to wish, and fairly strong although, being gargantuan, too big for the umbrella (when moving), and lack of limbs make several scenes difficult to explain (like pulling on the rope). Not particularly vomit-inducing. Proposing a child version reduces the strength bellow appropriate amount. Psionic powers could explain the earthquake, but not the tower scene.
Half-Giant (SRD or XPH 200)SpoilerStrong and psionic, but can talk, unclear how it accoutns for circus scene and the escape.
Hellfire Wyrm (MM2 125)SpoilerDragon, and thus can't explain the circus scene properly. Too big (huge)
Hoary Hunter (SRD or ELH 197)SpoilerVery strong, can plane shift, but not revolting enough to explain the circus' reactions
HuneferSpoilerUndead; due to paralysing aura can't explain the circus scene.
IllithidSpoilerNot strong enough, can't explain the escape
Illurien (MM5)SpoilerFemale, Insufficient strength
IncubusSpoilerNot powerful enough, difficulty changing alignments, can't explain the circus scene
Infernal (SRD or ELH 164)SpoilerImmune to mind affecting spells, unclear how it accounts for the escape scene (it's greater teleport is self-only). Can animate dead, which RC claims MitD cannot.
JaberwockSpoilerDifficult to gauge if it fits or not, since the jaberwocky is never really described. However, being unique, it doesn't fit the comment of MitD being "one of these".
King-Kong descendantSpoilerProblem addressing strength and size at the same time. Cannot explain the escape scene.
Kyton, EremiteSpoilerCan't explain the escape, since it can only self-teleport. Created after strip #100
Lamassu, CelestialSpoilerNot strong enough, can cast cleric spells.
Li Lung (Earth Dragon) (OA)SpoilerPros:- Yellow eyes
- Reasonably strong, potentially challenging, and correctly sized up to young adult
- Damage reduction
- Earthquake AND a powerful roar
- Plane Shift
Cons:- plane shift doesn't explain the escape well
- Personality (sleepiness, constant desire to consume, etc) doesn't match typical li lung's description
- As a young adult, it is not powerful enough
MarutSpoilerConstruct, has a vendetta against undead, embodiment of a morality plane
Nabassu (WotC book previews or Fiendish Codex 1)SpoilerNot particularly strong, can only teleport themselves, and kill any level-1s that look at them, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act.
Neh-Thalggu (SRD or ELH 206)Spoilerincorporeal
Neo-otyugh (2e MM?)SpoilerCan't explain the escape. Unclear strength (otyugh is definitely too weak). Too many eyes (3).
Nessie the Loch Ness MonsterSpoilerToo big for the umbrella, can't explain the escape scene, difficulty existing in dry land
Nightmare Beast (MM2 161)SpoilerPros:
- Fairly strong
- spends most of its time looking for food, and then sleeping
- Dimension door
- Can't talk
Cons:
- Dimension door doesn't explain the escape well
- Red eyes
- Everyone in the city should've been having terrible nightmares
Ophan AngelSpoilerGood stats, but hundreds of eyes, and no good explanation for the escape.
Outsider, The (H.P. Lovecraft)Spoilerundead
Paizo GolemSpoilerConstruct. Can't explain the escape scene or the circus scene. Created 5 years after strip #100
Phaerimm (Monsters of Faerun 70)SpoilerVery, very ugly, access to wish through sorcerer levels, but not strong enough for the tower scene, and has no eyes.
Pit Fiend (SRD or MM 57)SpoilerPros:- Strong, good defences
- Highly skilled in Knowledge Arcane, -Religion, -Planes and in Spellcraft which would explain how the MitD could identify the ritual with merely a glance.
- Access to Wish
Cons:
- Pit Fiends probably don't have children and aren't child-like. (From Roy's Archon's words here, it seems OotS-verse has normal "advancement" of celestial beings. On the other hand, two demons have mentioned parents)
- It is not surprising it can talk.
- It can reanimate the dead
- Circus scene presents two problems: demonic creatures are not difficult to recognise (in a broad sense, if not the specific type), and the reaction one would expect is fear, not vomiting.
- Rich's comments in W&XPs seem to indicate that morality planes creatures can't change alignments more than slightly.
Planetar Angel (SRD or MM 11)SpoilerHas cleric levels
PsammeadSpoilerCan grant wishes, but is not strong, is too small and being damage by water is something that does not match well with MitD's life in the rainforest. Also, Psammeads cannot grant their own wishes, so it cannot explain the earthquake or the tower scene.
Reality warper (e.g. Superman's Fifth-Dimensional Imp)SpoilerTheir reality revision power would explain the escape scene, but not the tower scene. A reality warper can cause anything they desire to become true, but in the tower scene, the exact opposite of MitD's desires (to hit as lightly as possible) happened.
SCP-682SpoilerPublished in 2007, didn't exist during comic #100. Can't explain the escape (except by an undefined unrestricted ability to adapt). The personalities are very different. Arguably too powerful to be MitD.
Shadow Dragon (Draconomicon 191)Spoiler
Pros:- It can cast Dimension Door as a supernatural ability once per day.
- Its size is Large as a young adult and adult, and Medium if it is juvenile.
- It has damage resistance 5 when it becomes a young adult.
- It's Shadowy and gets 9/10ths concealment from this....
Cons:- Not incredibly strong
- Doesn't explain the earthquake or the escape
Shedu, Greater (FF)SpoilerNot strong enough. Unclear what its stats are in 3.5. Not surprising it can talk.
Shoggoth (CoC)SpoilerUnclear if it can explain the escape, it may drive the public of the circus insane.
Shadowcloak ElderSpoilerShadow Blend doesn't match MitD's instructions to stay in the shadows (other than in Xykon's tower), not quite strong enough, can't talk, can't explain the escape.
ShirokinukatsukamiSpoilerNot enough strength (20), can't explain the escape due to only self-teleporting
SiabrieSpoilerInsufficient strength, female, beautiful, can't account for the escape.
SnarkSpoilerCannot explain the escape scene, and most likely cannot explain the earthquake or tower scenes (although the descriptions are vague)
Solar (SRD or MM 12)SpoilerCons:
- Solars don't really have children and aren't child-like.
- It is not surprising it can talk.
- It can reanimate the dead
Sphinx (SRD or MM 232)SpoilerNot really strong enough; the suggested idea was a kind of rock sphinx, but that can't be found in the stat'ed lists.
Starspawn (aka Son of Cthulhu)SpoilerDrives people looking at him insane, thus having difficulty explaining its success as a circus act. Strength high, but not impressively so.
Sun WukongSpoilerTalks, no father, not part of a group, vegetarian.
Titan (SRD or MM 242)SpoilerPros: High Strength, mythologically, the Titan Uranus ate his children.
Cons: The only way to rescue O'Chul is by using Maze, which fits badly. It wouldn't be surprising it can talk.
Titan, ElderSpoilerNot surprising it can talk. Can't explain the circus.
TrollSpoilerNot strong enough, can't explain the escape, has difficulty explaining the circus (trolls are fairly common creatures, not something that unrecognisable).
Truly Horrid Umber Hulk (MM 248)SpoilerFairly strong, confusing gaze might explain the circus' reactions. However, doesn't have teleportation abilities, or earthquake.
Two-headed CyclopsSpoilerTwo heads, but only one eye each, lazy & fairly ugly, but can't explain the escape and are not that strong. They can also speak, but only elven, not common.
Ulgurstasta SorcererSpoilerUndead. Eats (swallows whole) bodies to produce undead, so should have been able to help RC. Gargantuan. Defences too weak to explain the Tower scene or Belkar's attack.
UltrolothSpoilerDemonic (morality problems), insufficient strength & defences, can't explain the escape
Uluu ThalonghSpoilerNot surprising to be found in a jungle/rainforest. Unclear if it accounts for the escape.
Umpleby (1st ed FF)SpoilerCan't explain the circus scene, or the escape.
Vasuthant (MM3 182)SpoilerUndead. Can't explain the escape
Vermiurge (SRD or ELH 226)Spoilerrevolting sight, but can speak and is immune to mind-affecting spells.
Warforged (Eberron or MM3 190)SpoilerConstruct
Wendigo (FF 186)SpoilerVery strong, fairly ugly, famously hungry creatures. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
Wild ThingsSpoilerCannot explain the escape
WumpusSpoilerDoesn't explain the escape.
YetiSpoilerVery strong, presumed ugly even though no-one ever manages to see him. However, no magic, and thus doesn't explain the escape.
Xor-Yost (Planar Handbook 122)SpoilerCan't explain the escape
Zodar (FF 199)SpoilerPros:
- Very strong
- Can cast wish once in a lifetime, and any spell three times in a lifetime
- Human-sized
- Invulnerable to all damage except bludgeoning explains his resistance to Belkar's and Miko's attacks.
Cons:
- Does not explain the circus scene, since it basically looks like a man in a black armor
- The official version of Zodar is a construct, which would discard him; there is, however, an unofficial version that retains the 2.0 version that was monstrous, and that existed before the official one.
Section 3e: Light-Hearted IdeasSpoiler
These ideas are not meant to be taken seriously, and were added to this post only because they amused me enough I wanted them recorded for posterity. Please don't read too much into them (or what they say about my sense of humour)
- Inmune to blades, including scissors, but suffers from papercuts?
- The most dangerous box ever: Spoiler
- The fearsome GazeboSpoilerHotAndCold explained:
-A gazebo is obviously a powerful monster, devouring the story's PC without any chance of rebuttal.
-It takes no damage from a +3 arrow, just as MitD apparently takes no damage from Miko's or Belkar's attacks.
-Would you recognize a gazebo's tracks?
-Or expect to find one in a jungle and even speaking in Common, for that matter?
-It is, of course, a juvenile gazebo, explaining its roughly Medium size, rather than its being large enough for, y'know, people to hang out in it.
-I... guess he could be a particularly ugly gazebo? Although technically speaking, the gazebo's never actually described in the story beyond its dimensions, color, and the pointiness of its top. So I guess one could argue the gazebo's horrific appearance.
-The description states that the PC "awakened" the gazebo, implying that it was sleeping. Perhaps it had recently used one of its mighty and tiring abilities! - A FanboySpoilerTruly grotesque creatures, Fanboys have been known to consume vast quantities of whatever they get their hands on (including mouldy cheeseburgers), while skulking in the darkness of their 'boxes'. When inserted into fantasy fiction, they often wield great quantities of inexplicable power (Mary Sue Syndrome) and have difficulty remembering minor plot details (Gate? What gate?) They are truly the most fearsome creature any Creator can face, and yet are beautiful in that a Creator would be nothing without them. And of course, the monstrous and twisted exterior hides an innocence ill-befitting a horrendous beast, and a niceness of character little understood by those around, often causing them to be bullied by lesser souls in the vicinity.
We are all MitD in the quiet corners of our souls.
Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-07-31 at 10:32 AM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-02-04, 11:02 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Section 4: Appendices
This space is for discussion of topics only tangentially related to MitD, but that nevertheless keep coming up
Section 4a: MitD's Alignment
SpoilerThe best that can be said about MitD's species' alignment is that it is unlikely to be Good, since RedCloak would not have recruited a Good creature to protect the goblin village given his rather dim views on the Good alignment.
This, however, is a very weak argument, since it can be argued that MitD was not, at the time, Good. Also, consider that MitD's alignment and his species' need not match. As such, knowing MitD's actual alignment brings us no closer to knowing his species' alignment and, thus, for the purposes of this thread, this is a barren path of inquiry.
The only exception to this is alignment when applied to morality plane denizens (i.e. angels, demons, etc.). Rich commented on this topic in DStP:
Originally Posted by The Giant, Round 4 CommentaryOriginally Posted by The Giant, Round 7 Commentary
{TABLE]Lawful Evil: Baatezu/Devils|Lawful Neutral: Formians, Inevitables, Modrons|Lawful Good: Archons
Neutral Evil: Yugoloths/Daemons|True Neutral: Rilmani|Neutral Good: Guardinals
Chaotic Evil: Tanar'ri/Demons|Chaotic Neutral: Slaadi|Chaotic Good: Eladrin[/TABLE]
Section 4b: MitD's ScoresSpoilerIt has proven almost impossible to nail down what MitD's scores might be. The general agreement is that his strength must be past 30, his INT must be high (to account for his ability to learn quickly), his Wisdom be low (to account with his innocence and bad judgement) and his Charisma high (to account for the "beautiful" comment).
However, it is equally likely that he will be a near-epic creature, and as such his scores are going to be all-around high (by human standards).
Section 4c: (Not) Seeing the Gates
SpoilerMitD's inability to "see" the gates is felt by several participants to be a "clue" about MitD (rather than the alternative possibility, Rule of Funny). However, no explanation that ties MitD's species to the gates has been forthcoming, except when contemplating the idea of MitD being part of the Snarl.
Section 4d: Recognising MitDSpoilerThere have been two alternative explanations for the Hunter's + Circus scene and the differing reactions to MitD when looked at.
On one hand, the Hunter's scene can be seen as a lampshade hanging of MitD's ability to talk, i.e. an express admission of Rich that he shouldn't, just to get it over with and ignored thereafter. The hunters see a creature that is rare, powerful, strangely non-threatening and decide to sell it. They mention it talks, and from then on Rich need not keep pointing out this fact. The circus scene builds on this, letting us know MitD is revolting to look at (or smelled, or some other passive characteristic).
On the other hand, MitD could be a shifter. The Hunters may have seen a creature that couldn't talk, because MitD was adopting the shape of one, and was sold under the guise of one such creature. The circus crowd would likewise see either a revolting creature, or one that is shifting uncontrollably, such that the change is both revolting and, for some, beautiful (like a kaleidoscope). RC would recognise MitD for what he is, a creature that both shifts and can talk, explaining why he is not surprised by this last fact. Note that while this works on paper as an explanation, no creature that fits it has ever been proposed.
Section 4e: Suspicion of MitD's involvement in the escapeSpoilerWhy wasn't MitD suspected for the escape beyond the demon roaches? RC, the resident know-it-all and most likely to connect the dots was not present for the escape - he used Word of Recall and only returned once the action was over. We also do not know how much Xykon knows about MitD. We only have MitD's word that Xykon knows what he is, and even then, given Xykon's attitude towards book knowledge, he probably only knows MitD's species name and the fact that he is strong, and thus powerful (power is all Xykon cares about). If so, Xykon would not know MitD can teleport, and likely thinks him too incompetent (and too asleep) to be responsible. All in all, the scene seems carefully orchestrated so that MitD could save O-Chul and V without giving himself away.
Section 4f: The meaning of Fine LineSpoilerFor a wide variety of reasons, a number of participants feel that the "fine line" comment is meant to be a clue about MitD's authorship:
Originally Posted by Rich Burlew
On a strictly logical way, it is true that the sentence is somewhat redundant in context. However, it is also Rich's way of admitting that, to most of his readers, his assurance that he personally didn't create MitD is a cop-out since when MitD is revealed, he might as well have - the line he intends to draw between fantasy monsters created by him and others is fine indeed.
As a practical matter, even if the above interpretation is correct, and it is a subtle hint that Rich did in fact create MitD is some indirect way, it has never as a theory born fruit. To date no creatures have been brought forth with "partially authored by Rich" as a point in their favour.Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-06-10 at 07:05 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
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2012-02-04, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Section 5: Thread Information
Section 5a: Thread Rules
SpoilerThis is a curated thread, and as such obeys the following rules:
CuratorSpoilerI, Grey Wolf, am the curator of the thread.
Responsibilities:
- Maintain the thread
- Remember arguments and canon
- Answer polite questions about MitD and the thread
What I can't do
- I have no official authority
- I am not a moderator
- I cannot ban discussion of issues I consider settled
- I cannot prevent certain topics from being discussed (but I can publicly withdraw from them); however, see also section 5b - Inappropriate Topics
- I cannot prevent any given poster from participating (but can Ignore them)
- I cannot make executive decisions on what is or is not included in the first post outside the guidelines stated in this post.
Adding information to the first post
SpoilerTo add something to the first post needs two positive votes to do so. "Postive votes" means two more people in favour of the idea than against it.
In normal operation, that essentially means convincing me to add it. The original proponent and me make the 2 votes, assuming no-one objects. If I disagree, the proponent will then need two other posters to agree with him/her (assuming no-one else but me disagrees). And so on: if 3 people are opposed, five need to be in favour, etc.
Why not simple majority? Because that is perilously close to a draw. With only one vote up or down, someone might come in a day later and vote against the idea would mean that we open the door to having to continually add and remove things from the first post - I want to prevent that as much as possible. This way, a vote against the change coming after the change still leaves a simple majority in favour of it (if would take two votes against the change after the fact for it to be reverted).
The only exception to the rule is the refreshes. When I do a refresh of the first post (usually at the end of every page divisible by 10), I will not require to get anyone to agree with me; instead, I will publish a list of all changes as I make them, and when it is over, two objections will be enough to remove a change. For those doing the math at home, that is only one positive vote to remove it (I'd naturally be opposed, since I just added it), but since it got added only with one vote (mine), it's fair to remove it also with only one vote.
For major reworking of the first post, such as the issue with the definition of FBS, removing or adding whole sections, etc, it will need to be put to general vote. To request the voting to happen, you need the normal +2 votes.
Inappropriate Topics
SpoilerThe following topics are considered by consensus inappropriate for the thread. Note that no mod has weighted on either, so the easiest way forward if you want to discuss them is to first get mod approval:
- Intellectual Property ("copyrighted") creatures not belonging to WotC. Due to section "Inappropriate Topics", subsection "Professional Advice" of board rules, discussion of laws is verboten in this forum. Since the biggest objection to copyrighted creatures is whether or not Rich would be legally allowed to use them, every such creature proposed quickly devolved into a discussion of applicable laws, which is not allowed. For the purposes of this thread, any creature created after Mickey Mouse (1923) is currently under copyright in the US.
- MitD's personal alignment: not that of his species, but his personally. Consensus is that his alignment cannot be tied to that of his species (see section 4a). It is a separate enough topic that it should have its own thread. If V can have a thread for gender and a separate one for alignment, MitD can have one for his species (this one) and a separate one for his alignment. At least until the mods say otherwise.
Section 5b: Voting Rules
SpoilerMajor changes to the first post may be put to consensus vote. In those cases, the following rules will be followed:
- Semi-public vote: votes will be PM'ed to me, the curator, to prevent the thread from being spammed by multiple short "vote for X" posts. I will compile all votes in the original voting post for verification and record keeping. To prevent fraud, please be ready to reaffirm your vote if someone else PMs you to ask about it.
- Multiple votes per person: you can vote for more than one option. Do so in order of preference.
- Vote counting: will not be first past the post; instead, alternative vote system will be used.
- Vote length: Until a day passes without anyone else voting.
- Voting is binding: if you vote for extra work, be prepared to do the extra work. If extra work is voted for, but no-one does it, the option will be discarded and runner-up will be done instead.
- Voting options: If you feel the options are not to your liking, you can vote for a new option by describing it in your post. Give it a letter for ease of voting (and pithy name, if you can think of one).
- Changing Votes: You can change your vote at any time before the end of the voting.
Section 5c: FAQ
Spoiler
Do I have to read all of the first post before jumping in?SpoilerNo, but you should exercise good sense and read the sections most likely to be related to what you are about to post.
If you want to propose a creature, scan the proposed creatures list to see if it is already there, and read both section 3a (to see how your idea stacks up against the current "best of the crop") and the frequently proposed (in case your idea is already there - in this last case, you need to address all the cons listed in your first post).
If you want to propose an explanation for a MitD characteristic, check section 2 for it, and see what the general consensus of the thread for the characteristic is. If it is a scene, rather than a characteristic, you may have read the whole section to see where that scene is involved.
For other situations, reading section 4 and this FAQ is a good start. If in doubt, you can ask me, the curator, for guidance to the best sections to read.
When is the first post updated?SpoilerUpdates of details that strike me as important, typos, small corrections and other quick things can happen at any time. But, time permitting, every ten pages (at the end of page 10, 20, 30 & 40) I do "first post refreshes" where I add all new proposed ideas, and I may add entire new sections. See rules for the refreshes in section 5a.
When is a proposal added to the first post?SpoilerProposals are added during first post refreshes (every 10 pages, unless I am very busy). For a proposal to be added, it needs to meet the following:
- Be minimally defended. If just the name is mentioned, it won't get added
- Not meant as a joke. If it was meant as one, it will only be added if I find it exceptionally funny (or with two positive votes).
- Not retracted by the author. If the author retracts it and no-one else is in favour, it won't get added.
Why is my idea not a FBS?SpoilerProbably because it doesn't meet the requirements which by consensus are:
- Have an explanation for the escape. Current standard is "at least as good as teleport"
- Have an explanation for the Tower scene. Current standard is Strength 28+, and defences decent enough to ignore Miko's attack
- Have an explanation for the Circus scene. Must explain both the act (an unrecognisable "IT" that just stands there) and the reactions (vomiting, nausea, and other indications of disgust)
- Not belong to any of the categories in section 2c - categories, unless it is an exception to the reasons listed.
Wouldn't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be legal under fair use or parody?SpoilerA detailed answer would count as legal advice, and can't therefore be further discussed (see Section 5a - Inappropriate topics). Thread consensus is that neither fair use nor parody are applicable to MitD, but agree or disagree, discussion of IP non-D&D monsters is not allowed in this thread per the board rules.
Can't a non-D&D copyrighted creature be discussed, ignoring the legal status and only discussing its pros and cons?SpoilerIn theory, yes, but in practice the biggest con is its legal status, especially if the creature is a half-decent fit. The fact of the matter is that in practice, any non-D&D IP creature quickly descends into a legal discussion.
Isn't every idea guessable? I mean, if someone just guessed it?Spoiler"Guess" has two meanings. One is "random chance", like throwing a dart at a board. The other is "deduce". Rich intended the second one, as he clarified when he says "I trust that someone will figure it out eventually". He is dropping clues, and excepts us to be able to eventually figure it out, presumably once we have all the clues.
Since you haven't found the solution yet, is it possible you are doing something wrong?SpoilerNot necessarily. Ideas come to this thread slowly. For example, our current best fits were not suggested until late in the second thread and early third, and the explanations for the escape only included the stray dimensional lock as of start of the fifth thread. Besides, there is no way to know if we have found the solution. Balloons won't fall from the ceiling the moment someone says the correct species; for all we know, we have already found the creature Rich thought of.
Haven't you checked all D&D creatures by now?SpoilerNot even close. There are literally thousand of official creatures, and beyond counting for third-party creatures published in all manner splatbooks. To illustrate just how deep the search space goes, consider that Crusher, in the space of an afternoon, checked one new source and found 5 new better-than-average candidates. There remains a lot of material to explore.Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-08-12 at 09:50 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2012-02-04, 02:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Complete list of MitD strips (in progress)
Key:
Purple = strips prior to Rich knowing what the MitD is
Italics = MitD mentioned but does not appear
Start of Darkness
Spoiler{table=head]{colsp=2}Rainforest, 29 years ago
Page 49|MitD captured
Page 50|SBGH surprised MitD can talk, is in this part of the world[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Circus (3 years ago)
Page 83|MitD likes stew, about to be revealed
Page 84|CIRCUS SCENE, it's hard for MitD to be looked at by a lot of people at once
Page 85|MitD knows Right-Eye's family, playing with toys
Page 88|MitD meets Redcloak, Redcloak says he could escape if he wanted to
Page 89|Redcloak is going to free MitD
Page 90-95|Breaking MitD out of the circus
Page 96|Xykon meets MitD, : "You sure are one ugly sumbitch", MitD can be mind-controlled[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Taking Dungeon of Dorukan (6 months ago)
Page 100-101, 103, 105, 107, 109|MitD given control of zombies to attack tower, can't remember what to do, gets tacos instead
Page 110|MitD being carried into dungeon[/table]
Dungeon Crawlin' Fools
Spoiler{table=head]{colsp=2}Introductions
23 Meanwhile...| MitD's first appearance, he wants out of the shadows
37 Evil, But Cost-Effective| Watching Roy set off the trapped door
47 But is it High Definition?| Team Evil scrying on Order of the Stick/Linear Guild, MitD wants to watch Belkar and Yikyik fighting
82 Beats Pay-Per-View| Eating popcorn and watching Durkon and Hilgya have sex. MitD is (currently) in magical darkness[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}The Gates
85b A High Turnover Career|Panel 8: Xykon says MitD whines a lot
95 Dead Men Tell Tales| Panel 3: Redcloak says MitD is attracting more demon-roaches
96 Gate? What Gate?|MitD can't see/doesn't recognize as gate/instantly forgets ginormous gate.
97 Evil Plans|Joining in a hearty evil villain laugh.[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Fighting the Order
103 Practice Makes Perfect|MitD practicing for his big reveal
105 Hordes of Xykon|MitD waiting behind the throne
106 A Sure Bet|Waiting, : "Wait, what gate?"
109 Tensions Rise|Still waiting
110 Revenge is Best Served Really Cold|Ditto
113 Memories, Like the Edges of My Sword|Ditto
114 Exciting Climax|MitD about to jump out of the shadows
117 Delayed Gratification|Wants to kill and eat the Order
120 The End of the Beginning|Fleeing through tunnel with Redcloak[/table]
No Cure for the Paladin Blues
Spoiler{table=head]{colsp=2}Recap
??|MitD appears briefly in Elan's finger puppet recap of the events of the previous book
??|MitD is given a brief introduction on the Cast of Characters[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Recruiting the hobgoblins
147 The Light at the End of the Tunnel|MitD wants to hold Xykon's phylacetry but can't because he might break it. Excited to get out of the shadows. Introduction of pink umbrella.
148 Hobgoblins and You|Grumbling about umbrella
149 Cultural Differences|Watching Redcloak become hobgoblin supreme leader.[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Retaking Xykon's tower
190 A Lesson in Resource Management|MitD respects how Redcloak isn't going to send hobgoblins to their deaths, despite hating them
191 Dungeon Real Estate|MitD scared to go into Xykon's old tower, "there's nothing in there any scarier than you - Correction: any scarier than you SHOULD be."
192 Everything Sits Better on a Ritz|Outside Xykon's tower
194 You Light Up My Life|MitD wants lantern archons to hit him with their light attacks
194a Quit Dragon My Heart Around|Xykon and Redcloak can't see MitD - he's permanently shrouded in magical darkness according to Redcloak
194b Post-Dragon|Reading a pamphlet from the forces of good
195 Book Nook|Watching while Redcloak and Xykon search for Serini's diary
196 The Diary|Plot exposition for Xykon's plan, "What "gate" do you guys keep talking about?"[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Preparing to march
299 A Calling Missed|MitD wants to help, according to Redcloack the only way he can help zombify monsters is to volunteer as raw materials or gain five levels in cleric overnight[/table]
War and XPs
Spoiler{table=head]{colsp=2}Recap & Bonus
?? | MitD is mentioned on the Cast of Characters page
?? | MitD mentioned in passing in Vaarsuvius' plot recap
Round 4 commentary bonus cartoon | MitD is too tall to be a kobold[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Marching
331 For the Future|MitD marching with the hobgoblins[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}The Tower
368 All Along the Watchtower | MitD says he eats to fill the loneliness
369 Fight! | Cheering Redcloak against Miko
371 The Road to Heck | Watching Redcloak, Xykon and Miko talk
373 Caged | MitD is waiting for Miko after she escapes
374 Black and Blue | TOWER SCENE, Miko's attacks just tickle MitD, who can hit the lightest competition
375 Undeliverable | MitD eats the letter Miko was carrying, gets papercut on his tongue
376 All Too Easy | Xykon left MitD to guard Miko so that she would be sure to escape[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Preparing the Attack
414 Noble is Goodble|MitD is playing yahtzee with Xykon and Redcloak
415 Idiot Box| Watching TeeVo with Xykon and Redcloak, : "Gate?"
415a Hey, What's Wrong with Crayons?|MitD drew tactical plan, wants to smash through Azure City walls[/table]
{table=head]{colsp=2}Battle of Azure City
422 March to War|MitD shocked that Redcloak is bossing "Xykon" around
426 Three of a Kind|Hanging out in the back with Redcloak and "Xykon", doesn't understand why there are three "Xykons"
428 It Takes a Thief|Still hanging out in the back
431 My Three Xykons|MitD still doesn't get the multiple Xykons, even after Redcloak explains it
447 Guarding the Sapphire|In the back with Redcloak
450 Wands Are for Suckers|MitD visible as tiny dot in back with Redcloak
451 Change of Direction| Wants to devour someone and get a new pet to ride
463 Shattered| Having a tea party when O-Chul drops in
474 The Body Snatcher|MitD having a tea party with O-Chul and Roy's corpse; Belkar tracking MitD : tracks are weird, definitely not hobgoblin or undead Roy
Crashing the Party|Belkar and Haley try to take O-Chul and Roy's corpse back from MitD; MitD yells loud enough to shake the ground and blow hair/cloaks back, is excited to eat moldy cheeseburgers, thinks he's seen Haley and Belkar somewhere before
476 I Don't Suppose You Have Any Nutmeg? | MitD remembers he was supposed to devour Haley and Belkar
477 Shock and Awwwwww|MitD can't decide if he should devour Haley and Belkar now, doesn't even notice a full attack from Belkar, gives a tiny stomp and creates a massive earthquake (: "Wow! I didn't know I could do that!!") after which he is suddenly tired
484 At the End of the Day|MitD dragging O-Chul into Azure City[/table]
Don't Split the Party (in progress)Spoiler{table=head]{colsp=2}Introduction
??|MitD appears on Cast of Characters page[/table]
Online strips (coming soon)Last edited by Savannah; 2012-07-25 at 02:09 PM.
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard.
Be evil.
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2012-02-04, 03:29 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Love the new thread name.
"And yet, will we ever come to an end of discussion and talk if we think we must always reply to replies? For replies come from those who either cannot understand what is said to them, or are so stubborn and contentious that they refuse to give in even if they do understand." - St. Augustine
The Index of the Giant's Comments | Thanks, Bradakhan, for the avatar!
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2012-02-04, 03:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
About Sabine's speech bubbles - a big part of a Succubus' MO is to appear to be something other than a demon to seduce (demi)human(oid)s. The ability to speak the same way as her prey would go hand in hand with her change shape ability. The MitD doesn't appear to have the guile to deliberately alter his speech, so I think we could deduce something from it.
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2012-02-04, 03:35 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Note that the exact comic I linked in the explanation is of Sabine in her natural form, and yet her speech remains unchanged. While it could be that she is faking her voice while revealing her bat wings, that is more of a stretch than the possibility that not all demons have deep, black-on-red voices.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
Deep in the corners of your mind
Where reality is an intruder
And myth and legend thrive
Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est
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2012-02-04, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Originally Posted by the first post
Wish or some kind of reality revision still explains the Escape scene better than any version of Teleport, but the first post is overly exclusive of the possibility of Dimensional Lock being placed on the box.
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2012-02-04, 03:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
The outside of the room has a green tinge that might be just a poor taste in interior decoration, or it could be the visual sign of dimensional lock.
Grey WolfInterested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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And myth and legend thrive
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2012-02-04, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
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2012-02-04, 03:55 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
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2012-02-04, 03:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
It's the same colour as most of Xykon's Tower, though, as seen in the last 2 strips and even the exterior.
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2012-02-04, 04:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
I don't think dread linnorm and neothlid fit at all. If it turned out to be either it would require way to much explaining the cons away (sure it's possible with the right backstory, but it's also possible the MitD is an ant with the right backstory). The others could fit though.
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2012-02-04, 04:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
I am aware, that's why I hedged with poor taste. Nevertheless, there is no way to know if the green outside RC's is just paint or cleverly camouflaged visual cue. On the other hand, we have positive evidence that anchor lock does have a visual cue. A certain visual cue on one side, with an uncertain one on the other still suggests both are visual cues (or Rich just forgot in the case of the office).
Edit: I'm going to add that the inside of the office isn't green, so it isn't that the tower's building blocks are that colour.
Edit 2:
I'm guessing that you've only looked at the forerunners. You also seem to misunderstand the purpose of the category.
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-02-04 at 04:07 PM.
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2012-02-04, 04:07 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Alright, gotta run to the store, but there's at least the beginnings of a index of strips.
Knowledge is power.
Power corrupts.
Study hard.
Be evil.
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2012-02-04, 04:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
I'm guessing that you've only looked at the forerunners. You also seem to misunderstand the purpose of the category.
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2012-02-04, 04:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
GW , I know you are going to hate me for asking this, esp on a nice clean brand new thread and all, but how fineis the "line between something [Rich] made up and something someone else made up?"
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2012-02-04, 04:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
For the sake of the discussion, picture a person who knows absolutely nothing of D&D. Mothers and grandmothers are good picks for this. Imagine you go to this person and explain about this book you read, where there is a character that is surrounded in mystery, and that you think it is either a Tarrasque or a therblewurkersaurus.
Do you think this hypothetical person will see a difference between the two? Or is she going to think that they're pretty much the same thing, an invented creature? That's what the fine line is: every single idea being discussed in this thread is an invention of a human mind, since in the real world there are no creatures that fit under an umbrella who can punch horses through walls. So when Rich tells us that the human mind that invented the creature is not his human mind, he is just drawing a line in the desert. There is sand on both sides and, to an independent observer, there is no difference between the sand on one side and the other.
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2012-02-04, 05:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Hey, I have a question, how come the hello kitty umbrella is apparantly not in violation of the copyright law, but a bunch of mitd-related ideas are (probably anyway)?
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2012-02-04, 05:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Right, I mean I get that part of it. I guess what I am asking is, what exactly is on either side of that line in the sand. Does that mean that the MitD is something that is already thought of and published and that he did no modifying what-so-ever to it, or is it something that has been published that he might have changed or tweaked at all. I know you h ave gone over it, however I would greatly appreciate you going over it one more time so in the future I don't go too far off course in my guessing what MitD is, thanks GW.
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2012-02-04, 05:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
It's an evil kitty, i.e. a parody of the hello kitty icon, not the hello kitty icon itself.
We cannot know how much he has modified it, but we know he almost certainly has: the base creature of MitD almost certainly can't talk. The difference between this modification and any other being proposed is that this one was lampshaded.
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2012-02-04, 05:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
First, it's not a "hello kitty" umbrella--it's a "hello mutant" umbrella. Yes, that matters; see Dungeon Crawling Fools, which, unlike the online strip, carefully avoids using the words "illithid" or "mind flayer."
Second, it's a pink umbrella, a humorous prop, not a fairly major character.
The second clause is why the creature in the darkness is probably not going to turn out to be a "Snarlox."Orth Plays: Currently Baldur's Gate II
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2012-02-04, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Let me rephrase the question: can't Rich use the same workaround for the actual MitD? How come he can use Hello Kitty (ONLY IT'S A PARODY!!, sorta) for the umbrella, but not Snorlax (ONLY IT'S A PARODY!!, sorta) for MitD? What's the difference?
I might just not understand your answer, they say there are no dumb questions, but what kind of questions do dumb people ask? And who are "they" anyway.
EDIT: Wow, someone answered before I asked the actual question, psychic powers detected X____X. Wonder if the guy that answered has the powers or me.Last edited by Zerter; 2012-02-04 at 05:19 PM.
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2012-02-04, 05:17 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
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2012-02-04, 05:24 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
A parody of what, precisely, would MitD be? It's a straight characterization of monsters lurking in the darkness. Parody is not a magical word you can just bring out to defend yourself against copyright violations, you have to be able to demonstrate it is a parody before a judge. Hello Kitty puts their silly icon on everything under the sun, from band-aids to heavy weaponry, and so you can parody that tendency by making your own almost-same icon, but evil, and having evil characters use a similar brand to show just how absurd the idea is (and it is, indeed, very absurd). There was a very famous case of someone using barbie dolls to parody the barbie doll culture, who successfully won the copyright infringement case.
Now, I am of a position that MitD is not a parody of anything. Can you contradict me?
No, not exactly. I would define my position as "if Rich modifies it at all without lampshading the fact he has, then it would be a creature of his own design, and would make the guessing game rather unfair, if not impossible".
Grey WolfLast edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2012-02-04 at 05:27 PM.
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2012-02-04, 05:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
He could do so, if it was in fact a parody. the problem with a parody version of a monster would be a creature that rich made up to parody something else. thus it directly violates the "I didn't make it up" statement.
If MiTD is a parody, then it's his parody, thus his creation, and he can't actually use the origional without permision. There's also the fact that a parody - by law - isn't a parody unless it's obvious. if the "parody" is not obviously a parody (which MiTD isn't because we're trying to guess what he is) then it's just copyright infringment.
hope that helps
EDIT: also, theumbrella's a minor gag - and a recreation of merchandice - rather than an actual character. major difference there.Last edited by BlackestOfMages; 2012-02-04 at 05:32 PM.
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2012-02-04, 05:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
Interested in MitD? Join us in MitD's thread.There is a world of imagination
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2012-02-04, 05:33 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: MitD V: MitD and the Templates of Doom (Please Read the First Post)
My Extended Signature, Check it out!
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