Starcraft 2: 8 Medivac drop

[Silverraptor]

I'm playing through the campaign at the moment. I've been really out of touch with the game, i've not played in ages, but I found the missions were criminally easy on normal. But that's probably that i'm not a bad player, was platinum back in S1 and WoL was the first time i'd really played the starcraft series.

Overall I think it's fun, i'm enjoying the story line and I quite like that you collect a mishmash of characters that each have an interesting dialogue as part of the story. I agree with some of the units coming in too late and the earlier levels are really a case of "just give me some damn mutas/infestors/other zerg unit so I can pwn this level quickly and move on".

As a quick question, I sided with Tosh in my first play through of the WoL campaign (I think I went Tosh, Nova, Tosh as I went through on normal, hard and then Brutal) and then

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Potential Spoiler for the storyline

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Nova is one who captured Jim during the early campaign levels. Is this different if you sided with Nova in the earlier campaign?

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No. She has different dialog thats like "thanks for helping me. Now i'm still capturing you."

[Tectonic Robot]

So, um, anyone here a fan of Bronze League Heroes? That's the series that really got me into Starcraft again. ^^''

[Artanis]

So, um, anyone here a fan of Bronze League Heroes? That's the series that really got me into Starcraft again. ^^''

I enjoy it quite a bit. It makes me feel better about my own skill level

[Mutant Sheep]

Thank you so much for telling me that exists. Computer threw its OS away back in March and I completely missed my Husky dose since then. And i loved that Warcraft lets play too. xD

[Tectonic Robot]

Hah, the Warcraft let's plays were great! The ending to the undead campaign was fantastic. ^_^

Honestly, I've learned just about everything I know about the metagame from Bronze League Heroes. And I've shown a few friends who know nothing about Starcraft it, too, and they really enjoy it.

Husky is just... genuinely funny, y'know?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, um, anyone here a fan of Bronze League Heroes? That's the series that really got me into Starcraft again. ^^''

Now I have a parody running through my head... to the tune of Juke Box Heroes...

"They're Bronze League Heroes... with stars in their eyes..."

[Tectonic Robot]

So, guys, I WON MY FIRST STARCRAFT 2 GAME, WOOHOO!

I lost my first two, because I was slow and awful, but this game, he didn't attack me, so I made a crapton of Battlecruisers!

And he only had like, five void rays! I just yamato cannon'd them!

And high templar's psionic storms don't do that much damage to them!

Also immortals and colossi can't really fight battlecruisers! So that was neat!

[Hiro Protagonest]

Macro matters most. I could easily get two leagues higher if I properly timed building my CCs and production facilities (I always go two-base all-in, without a strategy suited for it), with no micro but basic stutter step.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

So, guys, I WON MY FIRST STARCRAFT 2 GAME, WOOHOO!

I lost my first two, because I was slow and awful, but this game, he didn't attack me, so I made a crapton of Battlecruisers!

And he only had like, five void rays! I just yamato cannon'd them!

And high templar's psionic storms don't do that much damage to them!

Also immortals and colossi can't really fight battlecruisers! So that was neat!

As a suggestion:

It's very hard to go wrong with Marines and Marauders. Just keep cranking them out. I like to go with twice as many marines as marauders. However, I also like to go with (eventually) 4 barracks with two of them having Reactors and two of them with Tech Labs. The two with tech labs cranks out marauders, the two with reactors cranks out marines. Build a Factory (and maybe a couple of Widow Mines at your front door), then build a Starport for making Medivacs.

You want Medivacs because Stimpacks are made of win and awesome in a crunch, and you want to keep them topped off. You also want Marauder Concussion Shells, because those make any melee unit pretty much obsolete. If you have a problem with a protoss cranking out tons of zealots, concussion shells will obviate that problem. And you want the shields, because more health is more awesome.

You only really need one engineering bay. I like to put a turret up by my natural choke and one by my mineral lines to stave off a DT rush, if I am playing against Protoss, but against other races you can hold off a while. Engineering Bay also is where you get your upgrades. Even a +2 weapon makes your M&M ball much nastier.

It isn't going to be perfect, of course. High Templars will rip an M&M ball a new one if you aren't on the ball dodging. And if they have Colossi out, it is a pretty clear indication that you should have already pushed out ten minutes ago, so while that is a 'counter' for M&M, it is one that shouldn't be able to be made before you swamp him.

It is a very basic and elegant play style that works quite well for those of us who don't have the macro skills to do much with caster units.

Tossing in a few Siege Tanks might not be the worst idea ever. Nothing says 'Avon Calling!' like three or four siege tanks knocking at your front door supported by an M&M ball.

[Tectonic Robot]

As a suggestion:

It's very hard to go wrong with Marines and Marauders. Just keep cranking them out. I like to go with twice as many marines as marauders. However, I also like to go with (eventually) 4 barracks with two of them having Reactors and two of them with Tech Labs. The two with tech labs cranks out marauders, the two with reactors cranks out marines. Build a Factory (and maybe a couple of Widow Mines at your front door), then build a Starport for making Medivacs.

You want Medivacs because Stimpacks are made of win and awesome in a crunch, and you want to keep them topped off. You also want Marauder Concussion Shells, because those make any melee unit pretty much obsolete. If you have a problem with a protoss cranking out tons of zealots, concussion shells will obviate that problem. And you want the shields, because more health is more awesome.

You only really need one engineering bay. I like to put a turret up by my natural choke and one by my mineral lines to stave off a DT rush, if I am playing against Protoss, but against other races you can hold off a while. Engineering Bay also is where you get your upgrades. Even a +2 weapon makes your M&M ball much nastier.

It isn't going to be perfect, of course. High Templars will rip an M&M ball a new one if you aren't on the ball dodging. And if they have Colossi out, it is a pretty clear indication that you should have already pushed out ten minutes ago, so while that is a 'counter' for M&M, it is one that shouldn't be able to be made before you swamp him.

It is a very basic and elegant play style that works quite well for those of us who don't have the macro skills to do much with caster units.

Tossing in a few Siege Tanks might not be the worst idea ever. Nothing says 'Avon Calling!' like three or four siege tanks knocking at your front door supported by an M&M ball.

Well, yeah, I had a big ball of marines and marauders sitting there while I was building the battle cruisers. I sent out a couple of hit squads of marines to his undefended third base - like, eight of them. They were enough to kill all his workers off, before his main force came.

When our armies fought, he killed off all my marines and marauders with storms! He couldn't really hold a candle to my battle cruisers, though, because they had 2 attack and 3 defense and his dudes had like, one defense. And I had eight battlecruisers at that point.

Also, repairing is neat! But thank you for the advice. ^_^

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, yeah, I had a big ball of marines and marauders sitting there while I was building the battle cruisers. I sent out a couple of hit squads of marines to his undefended third base - like, eight of them. They were enough to kill all his workers off, before his main force came.

When our armies fought, he killed off all my marines and marauders with storms! He couldn't really hold a candle to my battle cruisers, though, because they had 2 attack and 3 defense and his dudes had like, one defense. And I had eight battlecruisers at that point.

Also, repairing is neat! But thank you for the advice. ^_^

Storms are Protoss's way of saying you took too long to get into his base.

I'm talking about pushing right after your expansion. Maybe fifty marines and twenty five marauders. Also, the riot shields are very effective against storms, when paired with medivacs to heal them up again. Your opponent shouldn't have storms by then.

There's another way to deal with storms... Ghosts. EMP is all kinds of fun. Also, Snipe. Just kill them dead quickly that way. That requires a bit of micro, so it isn't exactly a 'newbie friendly' tactic, but it works very well once you get the hang of using ghosts.

[Tectonic Robot]

Huh... and how do the protoss generally deal with that?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Huh... and how do the protoss generally deal with that?

By having better macro. You have to get the timings down.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Huh... and how do the protoss generally deal with that?

Better Macro and Sentry forcefield blocking off chokes to split up armies into more manageable pieces.

For a good start, I would suggest watching this Bronze League Heroes video. I would not, however, suggest to avoid throwing away the game like the terran player did. Watch the first five minutes. That's what you want to do. Although with a pair of tech labs and a pair of reactors on the barracks so you can actually spend your income properly.

[Tectonic Robot]

It turns out a friend of mine was actually a gold league player! We had a few games together.

He was pretty darn good. I nearly almost sort of sort of got him in our protoss vs. protoss game, though.

[Silverraptor]

It turns out a friend of mine was actually a gold league player! We had a few games together.

He was pretty darn good. I nearly almost sort of sort of got him in our protoss vs. protoss game, though.

I remember playing against kyeudo once and winning. He was plat and I was gold.

[Kyeudo]

I remember playing against kyeudo once and winning. He was plat and I was gold.

I think those were some training games. Wasn't I trying to see if I could hold a 10 pool with my 15 pool?

[Silverraptor]

I think those were some training games. Wasn't I trying to see if I could hold a 10 pool with my 15 pool?

That was the second game, where you held it off. The first game was you trying out one of the maps the first time to see if you would take it off your "skip" que. You reasoned that you were not.

[Tectonic Robot]

You know you've watched too much Huskystarcraft when you get out of bed and think to yourself "I'm going to go for a robe-first build today..."

[ShneekeyTheLost]

You know you've watched too much Huskystarcraft when you get out of bed and think to yourself "I'm going to go for a robe-first build today..."

Well, it's at least a good way to stop an early scout from spotting your build

[Tectonic Robot]

So, has anyone seen the Innovation vs. Taeja game yet? It's like, super awesome, especially for a Terran vs. Terran game.

[Artanis]

Whenever I watch pro-level games, a thought comes to mind: the pros base so much of their strategy on the metagame that it would be really interesting to see them lose due to doing that. It'd be like if they play a slightly-lower level player, and go, "Well, six-pool never works, so nobody would try to six-pool, so I don't need to prepare to fight off a six-pool" and then get six-pooled to death.

I know it'd never happen, but it'd still be kinda fun to see once or twice.

[Legoshrimp]

Whenever I watch pro-level games, a thought comes to mind: the pros base so much of their strategy on the metagame that it would be really interesting to see them lose due to doing that. It'd be like if they play a slightly-lower level player, and go, "Well, six-pool never works, so nobody would try to six-pool, so I don't nee d to prepare to fight off a six-pool" and then get six-pooled to death.

I know it'd never happen, but it'd still be kinda fun to see once or twice.

Six pools happen occasionally in pro games. Or seven pools I think are stronger, but basically the same. When I get home if I remember I will find a game.

[Tectonic Robot]

I was trying the IMBA LEAGUE mod for the game, turned zombie mode on and played with three computers...


One computer managed to kill themselves by detonating a baneling in their base and killing a bunch of zerglings, who came back as zombies and killed his base. It was hilarious.

[Silverraptor]

Whenever I watch pro-level games, a thought comes to mind: the pros base so much of their strategy on the metagame that it would be really interesting to see them lose due to doing that. It'd be like if they play a slightly-lower level player, and go, "Well, six-pool never works, so nobody would try to six-pool, so I don't need to prepare to fight off a six-pool" and then get six-pooled to death.

I know it'd never happen, but it'd still be kinda fun to see once or twice.

Dark Memnarch sent me a game where he was 6 pooled when he went hatch first and he easily held it off. Like, it was mindboggling how well a bunch of drones can hold of the zerglings.

[Artanis]

I only meant 6-pool as an example of a sort of cheesy tactic that won't work at that sort of level. Anything that a pro would be unprepared for due to disregarding it because "nobody's stupid enough to try it" would fit.

[Tectonic Robot]

I only meant 6-pool as an example of a sort of cheesy tactic that won't work at that sort of level. Anything that a pro would be unprepared for due to disregarding it because "nobody's stupid enough to try it" would fit.

...Battlecruiser rush?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I only meant 6-pool as an example of a sort of cheesy tactic that won't work at that sort of level. Anything that a pro would be unprepared for due to disregarding it because "nobody's stupid enough to try it" would fit.

There's a saying about the best not fearing the second best, but the worst, because he doesn't know what the person might do

[Legoshrimp]

I only meant 6-pool as an example of a sort of cheesy tactic that won't work at that sort of level. Anything that a pro would be unprepared for due to disregarding it because "nobody's stupid enough to try it" would fit.

That is called cheese, and pros know they need to be ready for it or at least know about what their build can handle, and then weigh the odds of the enemy doing something their build will lose to. Also with good micro a lot of cheeses can be dealt with with normal builds.

[Karoht]

That is called cheese, and pros know they need to be ready for it or at least know about what their build can handle, and then weigh the odds of the enemy doing something their build will lose to. Also with good micro a lot of cheeses can be dealt with with normal builds.

Cheeses such as but not limited to 6 pools also show up in MLG and BWC matches. Frequently. It isn't just a 'newbie' tactic. At the pro level, if they disregard it they usually end up losing the match or being put signifigantly behind.

Whenever I watch pro-level games, a thought comes to mind: the pros base so much of their strategy on the metagame that it would be really interesting to see them lose due to doing that. It'd be like if they play a slightly-lower level player, and go, "Well, six-pool never works, so nobody would try to six-pool, so I don't need to prepare to fight off a six-pool" and then get six-pooled to death.

I know it'd never happen, but it'd still be kinda fun to see once or twice.

Which pro-level games are you watching? Every time I go watch MLG I see a minimum of 2 games which start with a 6 pool (or an 8 pool, but they are virtually the same thing). Much more likely if it's ZvZ. One of the NASL matchups I saw the guy completely sweep his opponent with back to back 6 pools.

Mind you, the map really determines how viable such a tactic is. Usually the announcers even go "Oh man, it's this map, I wonder if we'll see a 6 pool." Typically they are genuinely surprised when they don't see one.