Starcraft 2: 8 Medivac drop

[Artanis]

WCS Europe Quarterfinals Finals underway


Also: iNcontroL is awesome.

Spoiler

Show

iNcontroL: "So, during that match, were you...I'm sorry, I know these are really stupid questions, but they pay me to ask stupid questions, so..." *holds microphone over for MC's response while looking ashamed.*

iNcontroL: "Yes, [Kaelaris]'s my son."
Spectator: "He's a Hobbit!"
iNcontroL: "NO-ONE INSULTS MY SON! Besides, he's not a Hobbit. ...He's a Leprechaun."

iNcontroL: "Wait, you guys started a BarCraft at 9 AM?"
BarCraft participant: "Yes."
iNcontroL: "That's not a BarCraft, that's called 'Alcoholism'."

[Spuddles]

Okay, I just played two more games, and came away very discouraged. It's pretty sad when you go into a match intending to practice blink Stalker harassment, get out the Stalkers and an Observer, but don't realize until you've got the Stalkers outside the opponent's base that you completely forgot to even build a Twilight Council, much less get blink. Not to mention finding that by the time you've done this, your opponent has built a big ol' force of Immortals that proceeds to roflstomp you.

Just... ugh. I'm increasingly feeling like this game has just too much multitasking for me, too many things I need to remember to be doing as the game goes on. Especially at the increased pace that multiplayer plays at. Maybe if it was at normal speed, or even just fast, but on faster it feels like there's no way I can keep up with everything.

You have poor macro. That's ok; we all do. You can play at masters to grandmasters level on NA server with only 80 APM. Sheth, for instance, has APM around 80 to 100, and he used to compete at the highest (non-korean) levels.

At your level, focus on making a base and defense it.

If you have good macro, you can afford to lose an army to micro mismanagement because you'll re-produce it in 40 seconds.

Blink stalker harass is, simply, beyond your capabilities at the moment. Focus on just making more stalkers than your opponent. That should get you up to platinum or diamond league. Bronze through gold is all about outproducing your opponent, beyond that, identifying what your opponent is doing becomes important. It's only at the highest levels of play where micro (forcefield placement, fungals, stutter step) matters.

Are there some things you can do to be better? Sure- dont park your army on creep while you build pylons in your base. Don't mismanage your rallies and have space giraffes wandering all over the place. But again, at your level (and my level), building workers, expanding, not getting supply blocked, constructing more production facilities, and teching up are all critical parts of the game. You don't even have to worry about scouting in bronze- just 6 rax reactor rally marines into the enemy base. They can have space giraffe, but chances are they're one base space giraffe and you'll just drown them under a wave of blue corpses.

If you don't want to play macro games, just look up build orders for timing wins- how to 4gate, dt rush, proxy stargate, 1base blink stalker, 2gate robo, proxy gateway, cannon rush. The teamliquid forums are a great place to start. They have the most efficient builds for going certain directions- when to drop pylons, when to get gas, and when to expand.

[Zevox]

Are there some things you can do to be better? Sure- dont park your army on creep while you build pylons in your base. Don't mismanage your rallies and have space giraffes wandering all over the place.

I don't do anything that dumb to begin with. (Though I don't know what unit you're nicknaming "space giraffes." )

[Stuff about macro]

That's just the thing - as it stands, I can't get to the parts of the game I do like, because the parts I don't are prerequisites for getting even that far.

The last couple of days I've tried practicing openings and general macro using a build order tester in the arcade section. I've found that while I can certainly do much better than I was previously, I just don't like doing it. Base building and getting stuff in the first place is the boring part of the game for me, but it's the part I need to learn to do well in order to do the things I want to do, which is all the various ways you can engage your opponent in combat once you have your army built. Also, the amount of focus that I need to keep up with the game and the rate at which I make money after getting a second base is pretty hard to maintain for extended periods of time - and that's without any actual fighting going on to distract me.

I understand that competitive games are of course going to have some basic things you need to learn to be any good at them. Because the main multiplayer games I play are fighting games, I find myself mentally drawing a comparison to those: my current situation is sort of like if I couldn't enjoy practicing combos and setups in training mode, or learning the basic mechanics of the individual game, and only cared about actually doing mixups and landing hits. I don't think I'd really be able to have fun in those games if that were the case. And I know I haven't been having any fun the last few times I've played multiplayer Starcraft.

So at this point, I think I'm just not going to try to play multiplayer. I'll just stick with the campaigns instead. They're fun enough, and what skill I've picked up from trying to learn the multiplayer portion has at least made me able to handle hard difficulty there. It's just too bad that my favorite faction will be the last to get theirs released.

If you don't want to play macro games, just look up build orders for timing wins- how to 4gate, dt rush, proxy stargate, 1base blink stalker, 2gate robo, proxy gateway, cannon rush.

But I don't really want to do that, either. I'd honestly feel guilty beating my opponent with some kind of rush, because I don't want to kill my opponent's fun by beating him so early that it feels to him like he didn't have the chance to fight back. That's how I feel when something like that happens to me, after all.

[Spuddles]

I don't do anything that dumb to begin with. (Though I don't know what unit you're nicknaming "space giraffes." )


That's just the thing - as it stands, I can't get to the parts of the game I do like, because the parts I don't are prerequisites for getting even that far.

The last couple of days I've tried practicing openings and general macro using a build order tester in the arcade section. I've found that while I can certainly do much better than I was previously, I just don't like doing it. Base building and getting stuff in the first place is the boring part of the game for me, but it's the part I need to learn to do well in order to do the things I want to do, which is all the various ways you can engage your opponent in combat once you have your army built. Also, the amount of focus that I need to keep up with the game and the rate at which I make money after getting a second base is pretty hard to maintain for extended periods of time - and that's without any actual fighting going on to distract me.

I understand that competitive games are of course going to have some basic things you need to learn to be any good at them. Because the main multiplayer games I play are fighting games, I find myself mentally drawing a comparison to those: my current situation is sort of like if I couldn't enjoy practicing combos and setups in training mode, or learning the basic mechanics of the individual game, and only cared about actually doing mixups and landing hits. I don't think I'd really be able to have fun in those games if that were the case. And I know I haven't been having any fun the last few times I've played multiplayer Starcraft.

So at this point, I think I'm just not going to try to play multiplayer. I'll just stick with the campaigns instead. They're fun enough, and what skill I've picked up from trying to learn the multiplayer portion has at least made me able to handle hard difficulty there. It's just too bad that my favorite faction will be the last to get theirs released.


But I don't really want to do that, either. I'd honestly feel guilty beating my opponent with some kind of rush, because I don't want to kill my opponent's fun by beating him so early that it feels to him like he didn't have the chance to fight back. That's how I feel when something like that happens to me, after all.

It doesn't sound like Starcraft and similar simcity RTSs are the sort of game for you.

You could always get good macro, gain a huge lead, then toy with your opponent. That's what I do.

[Mutant Sheep]

I don't do anything that dumb to begin with. (Though I don't know what unit you're nicknaming "space giraffes." )

The last couple of days I've tried practicing openings and general macro using a build order tester in the arcade section. I've found that while I can certainly do much better than I was previously, I just don't like doing it. Base building and getting stuff in the first place is the boring part of the game for me, but it's the part I need to learn to do well in order to do the things I want to do, which is all the various ways you can engage your opponent in combat once you have your army built. Also, the amount of focus that I need to keep up with the game and the rate at which I make money after getting a second base is pretty hard to maintain for extended periods of time - and that's without any actual fighting going on to distract me.

So at this point, I think I'm just not going to try to play multiplayer. I'll just stick with the campaigns instead. They're fun enough, and what skill I've picked up from trying to learn the multiplayer portion has at least made me able to handle hard difficulty there. It's just too bad that my favorite faction will be the last to get theirs released.

But I don't really want to do that, either. I'd honestly feel guilty beating my opponent with some kind of rush, because I don't want to kill my opponent's fun by beating him so early that it feels to him like he didn't have the chance to fight back. That's how I feel when something like that happens to me, after all.

I'm pretty sure he means Collosus. Dunno why they're giraffes, they don't have a neck.

You just expressed my pain with ladder games far more eloquently than I. It's why I stick to custom games, mostly.

I would say "At least your faction got a sidequest in Wings", but thats just me wishing I could get HOTS.

Oh my. Someone else feels this way. They feel shame when they do cheap things. I THOUGHT I WAS ALONE.

[Hiro Protagonest]

It doesn't sound like Starcraft and similar simcity RTSs are the sort of game for you.

Yeah. If you consider macro boring and cheese cheating... then you shouldn't be playing a simulation of a commander in total war where both sides are trying their best to win.

[Zevox]

It doesn't sound like Starcraft and similar simcity RTSs are the sort of game for you.

"Simcity" RTSs ?

You could always get good macro, gain a huge lead, then toy with your opponent. That's what I do.

If I could get good macro, I wouldn't have a problem here in the first place.

I'm pretty sure he means Collosus. Dunno why they're giraffes, they don't have a neck.

Huh. Yeah, can't say I understand why you'd call a Colossus a space giraffe. Don't see any similarities there.

I would say "At least your faction got a sidequest in Wings", but thats just me wishing I could get HOTS.

Yeah, there is that, at least. I was certainly grateful for it. Too bad one of the missions was just defending until you die. Although at least it did come with a largely pre-built base.

Yeah. If you consider macro boring and cheese cheating... then you shouldn't be playing a simulation of a commander in total war where both sides are trying their best to win.

I wouldn't say that I consider cheese cheating. But I do find it no fun at all to play against, and I wouldn't want to do that to an opponent. I've run across things like that in other multiplayer games - I stayed away from using certain characters in Marvel vs Cacpom 3 because of it, and there's a particular deck type I won't use in Scrolls for the same reason.

[Spuddles]

During the beta, no one knew what the plural of "colossus" was. Day9 called them "coloxen", though I prefer LAGTV's "space giraffe". Easier for me to spell, too. Now casters mix up colossi and colossus, as using latin to pluralze words in english is stupid.

Simcity RTS- where you have to make a gazillion production facilities. Compare that to Myth, where there are no production facilities, or CoH or Warcaft3 where you have relatively few production buildings.

I highly suggest looking up build orders if you want to get better. That's part of macro. Your resistance to looking up build orders is tantamount to not looking at the combo moves in a fighting game and relying on button mashing. Not knowing how to 4gate is like not knowing how to checkmate in 4 moves. Not knowing 3gate robo is like, not knowing how to hadoken.

[Zevox]

Simcity RTS- where you have to make a gazillion production facilities. Compare that to Myth, where there are no production facilities, or CoH or Warcaft3 where you have relatively few production buildings.

Huh, okay then. I honestly haven't played any other RTS titles in a long time (not a PC gamer), so it's hard for me to think of differences between them. Haven't played those particular ones either. I think the main other RTS titles I have experience with (ignoring SC1) are Red Alert 2 and Age of Mythology, but it's been ages since I played either of them.

I highly suggest looking up build orders if you want to get better. That's part of macro. Your resistance to looking up build orders is tantamount to not looking at the combo moves in a fighting game and relying on button mashing. Not knowing how to 4gate is like not knowing how to checkmate in 4 moves. Not knowing 3gate robo is like, not knowing how to hadoken.

I'm not resistant to looking up build orders. I did that. That's what I was practicing in that build order tester I mentioned. That's what bored me, even when I was clearly getting better at it.

(Though I'd suggest your last analogy there is rather off. Knowing how to do a particular move in a fighting game is like knowing how to build a particular unit or structure in an RTS - complete basic level stuff, whose usefulness is entirely dependent on your knowledge of how to employ it.)

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Well, it's almost time for that new thread again, my humble suggestion:

Starcraft 2: 9 Hatch

I'd make a supply block joke, but that's more appropriate for thread 10...

[Artanis]

I'm going to go ahead and repost my earlier suggestion because it's kinda been lost in the mix since then:

StarCraft 2, Thread 9: I Have The HotS for Kerrigan

[Karoht]

Maybe. But do I want to do the amount of practice required for that? I'm already not having fun because I see how many horrible mistakes I'm making and feel like an idiot for them.

Ask yourself this. What makes you want to be good at anything?

Skill focus games like this aren't for everyone. Not everyone is capable of taking the knowledge that they are doing something wrong without taking it personally. Some people have too strong an ego in order to improve or progress. Some aren't even able to acknowledge that the other player managed to outplay them. "It's the game's fault, stupid Blizzard for making X so good," or other such nonsense.

Now while you clearly aren't in any of the above categories, I do see you taking your mistakes perhaps a bit too seriously. Either way, you say you are going to move away from multiplayer for a while, which is probably the best. I do think you are taking this a bit too seriously, and at the same time, giving up too easily. But that is just my opinion.

I already use them. First three for units (usually 1 for my main army, 2 for my Mothership Core, 3 for whatever else I may make), 4 for Nexi, 5 for Gateways, 6 and 7 for Robo and Stargates if I have them. That's one habit I didn't lose since last time I played, at least.

Those are groups. Not hotkeys.

[Zevox]

Ask yourself this. What makes you want to be good at anything?

Enjoying it. That's why I can spend hours at a time just in training mode for a fighting game - I honestly enjoy learning the things you need to learn to be good at those. (Well, mostly. Ridiculously tight link combos are another matter, but that's why I only play SF4 very casually.)

Here though, I'm not finding it to be the case. I like the game in theory, but when the multiplayer comes down to being so macro-focused, and I'm simply finding that I don't enjoy trying to improve at that, I end up not wanting to do it.

Those are groups. Not hotkeys.

Ah. So then hotkeys are simply things like hitting "e" to make a Probe, right? I was doing that too. Though granted I don't know all of them, but I certainly know the most important ones for Protoss - Probes, all basic and some advanced structures, all Gateway units, certain Robo/Stargate units, most spells on casters (still didn't have the ones for Mothership Core or Oracle down, since they're new to HotS).

[Artanis]

No more suggestions or votes for the next thread's title?

[Karoht]

No more suggestions or votes for the next thread's title?

Should be fine.

Man I hope there's a Barcraft here in Calgary before Blizzcon.

[Recaiden]

I'm going to go ahead and repost my earlier suggestion because it's kinda been lost in the mix since then:

StarCraft 2, Thread 9: I Have The HotS for Kerrigan

This is a terrible pun, but it's a good thread title.

During the beta, no one knew what the plural of "colossus" was. Day9 called them "coloxen", though I prefer LAGTV's "space giraffe". Easier for me to spell, too. Now casters mix up colossi and colossus, as using latin to pluralze words in english is stupid.

Collossi. But Space Giraffes is good. It's just because they're tall, no?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Starcraft 2: Thread 9: Pylo shall never be forgotten

[Kyeudo]

Starcraft 2, Thread 9: Uniden, no!

[The Glyphstone]

I'll throw a vote to I Have The HotS for Kerrigan.

[Tectonic Robot]

My vote goes towards "Pylo shall not be forgotten".

[Silverraptor]

StarCraft 2: Day 9

[Kyeudo]

StarCraft 2: Day 9

Yes. Perfect.

[Mutant Sheep]

Yeah, I'm going with Day 9 too.

[Recaiden]

StarCraft 2: Day 9

I take back what I said. This needs to be the title.

[Silverraptor]

How come no one else thought of it?

[Karoht]

StarCraft II: Day[9] has the HotS for Kerrigan

[Gandariel]

Changeling log, Day 9: They still think i'm a Zealot

[Artanis]

StarCraft II: Day[9] has the HotS for Kerrigan

I approve of this title

[ShneekeyTheLost]

StarCraft 2: Day 9

I withdraw my earlier submission and instead cast my vote for this.

[The Glyphstone]

I approve of this title

As do I, as do I.