Results 61 to 86 of 86
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2012-02-10, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Castaic, ca
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
The main problem (and good thing) with psionics is that they are different. Thus, the player and the DM may be not seeing something and thus playing something wrong. This can make psionics very powerful esp with their ability to Nova like crazy. DMs’ do have to watch Psions and the 1 minute adventuring day, but same with Wizards, too.
Mind you, the system is no more difficult than Vancian, it’s just that we’re all used to Vancian.
We found the Psionic version of Timestop to be very annoying in one high level game. The rest of us could go out for a pizza while the Psion did his turn. ;-)avatar by the talented Ceika!
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2012-02-10, 03:52 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2008
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2012-02-10, 03:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2007
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- The Land of Cleves
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
MysticMind, you can also get almost everything in the XPH from the SRD, which also has the advantage of actually being legal.
Time travels in divers paces with divers persons.
—As You Like It, III:ii:328
Chronos's Unalliterative Skillmonkey Guide
Current Homebrew: 5th edition psionics
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2012-02-10, 04:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2007
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- Central Kentucky
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
I'm not sure if I have been ninjad or not, but there is a handbook specifically about this myth!
http://community.wizards.com/go/thre...is_overpowered
There you go! =D
Now, some of the exotic stuff from psionics is broken or theoretical optimization, but in general, the system is actually significantly more balanced than the vancian casters.
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2012-02-10, 04:31 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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- ⚣
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2012-02-10, 04:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2011
Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
In Gestalt, the power point stacking gets much more ridiculous than the arcane counterparts. Especially when you can go:
Psion/Wilder 5
Psion 10/Metamind 10
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2012-02-10, 04:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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2012-02-10, 05:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
And yet casters get separate spell slots AND they get more bang per slot than a manifester does for his power points due to auto-scaling.
I think it's perfectly fair.
If the DM wants to alter it so both pools are separate, that's fine IMO (so long as he gets all the resources he's entitled to).
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2012-02-10, 05:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Sep 2011
Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Yes, but in your example you aren't using everything available to you. So obviously you wouldn't keep up in a high-op game.
If you do use everything available to you, you can use psionic restoration in combination with any level draining effect to gain the free exp to use psychic chirurgy. You would then call a thrall with powers, learn them all, kill the thrall and call a new one with new powers. Once all the powers were learned, you could then call a series of StP Erudite thralls and learn all the arcane spells as well. And then you could make all your thralls 18th manifester lvl psions with all powers and spells known on top of whatever else they normally do. Those are some pretty powerful expendable resources.
You can't willingly restrict your character then use it as an example of how psion can't hang in OP games. That is a strawman.
The power of a StP erudite is not simply access to arcane spells. In many cases psionic powers are better than there arcane counterparts. Psionics has TO tricks that arcane casters cant do. The power comes from the ability to take everything good and broke about psionics and then take everything good and broke about arcane casting. Combining both worlds together on one character turns that guy into something greater than the 2 parts. StP erudite does not bring a psion up to the level of a wizard, it skyrockets psion to the absolute top of the ladder (a Tier 0 if you will).
A StP Erudite with 1 lvl of thrall herd (6th lvl) can have infinite power points all 3rd lvl and lower arcane spells and all 3rd lvl and lower powers known without any support or help from outside of character sources. That is significantly greater than just a 6th lvl wizard.
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2012-02-10, 05:16 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2011
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Very much agreed. StP erudites are among the most powerful characters in the game, just under Pun Pun level.
That's exactly why I'd choose the class if I ever got to turn myself into a D&D character IRL. Factotum on the other side of the gestalt, of course (I did mention it was gestalt, right?).
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2012-02-11, 12:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2009
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Under Pun-pun level? Sorry, no. Pun-pun is out of the rules. Also, theoretically, every Wizard is a potential Pun-pun : meet Sarrukh, Gate out, Wish to Shapechange into one for getting around non-replication clause, Assume Supernatural Ability : congratulations, you are now Pun-pun.
A basic, D&D Wizard, reasonably efficient, makes the other party members win battles, while staying safe himself.
A basic, unoptimized Psion, with only Psionic Reformation, is just a Wizard who spends XP to prepare new spells.
An über-optimized, straight Psion (no prestige classes) is a machine made for breaking the action economy in very, very small pieces. And I'm not even talking about Synchronicity. A game-breaking Psion has fun breaking the action economy with power usage clauses. Synchronicity? That's the easy mode.
My current build in a heavily optimized campaign can end up like this, within all of one immediate action :
Self : 1 standard round
Self's body, controlled by Control Body, maintained as swift action (possibly by psicrystal) : 1 standard round of physical actions
2 Schisms : 1 standard mental action
2 psicrystals : 1 standard round each. Psicrystals get feats by HD, and they have as many HD as you do. Hidden Talent + Practiced Manifester : they Bestow Power on you in your Affinity Field. They each spend their 3pp, get four back (they ARE Psionic Creatures), and you and your clone get two back, too.
Fissioned clone : 1 standard round
Fissioned clone's body : 1 standard physical round
Fissioned clone's Schisms : 1 standard mental action each
2 psicrystals : 1 standard round each. Have them control each other's bodies for cheap giggles.
Who needs Synchronicity, again? By that point, you're a small army anyway.
It depends on the level of optimization in the group. I love being powerful enough to stop anything, and I will not go nova all that much if it's not strictly necessary.
But if something is dangerous enough that I need to kill the Metamind just to revive him so that his Font of Power will be available again, well, "we can do that all day erry day, as long as we gain at least 20xp per round". It's one power and one class feature. High-level D&D is DESIGNED to be at that level of power, is all.
Edited out : new psionic tricks. Watch out for them soon in the proper thread.
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2012-02-11, 12:05 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
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2012-02-11, 07:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- Below sea level
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Warlock Poetry?
Or ways to use me in game?
Better grab a drink...
Currently ruining Strahd's day - Avatar by the Outstanding Smuchsmuch
First Ordained Jr. Tormlet by LoyalPaladin
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2012-02-11, 11:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Seattle, WA
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Friends don't let friends manifest Affinity Field.
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2012-02-11, 01:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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- Castaic, ca
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Part of the Design of D&D in all editions (and I will call PF a edition for this purpose) is that Wizards are more powerful at high levels. The one execption is 4th ED, and I actually find the fact that the classes there are overly balanced to be a tad boring.
Still a Epic level Fighter with 10 levels in a good prestige class is completely awesome. Just not as awesome.avatar by the talented Ceika!
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2012-02-11, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
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2012-02-11, 06:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2010
Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
It is a design feature, but it is not a good one. the problem with 4e is not that the classes are balanced, its that they are doing things in too similar a manner, and they put a stranglehold on your customization.
Look at Legend. It has a wide variety of classes, which are played in very different manners, but are all well-balanced against each other at all levels, while keeping a high degree of versatility and customization. And the end result is amazing. I've shown to fans of both 4e and 3.5, and they all loved it. A level 20 martial class has plenty of awesome in its own right, as are any caster classes, or mixed builds.
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2012-11-19, 04:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Sydnah, Australia
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
There are ways to get around detect magic etc, either through cleverness or a variety of things including spells, templates, skill tricks etc.
Also keep in mind that detect magic by RAW doesn't detect spellcasters - it detects active spells and magic items.
Any GM who 'hates' certain classes is by definition a bad GM in that regard. They might have other factors that make it still worth playing in their game, but it's a major warning sign as there is no reason to ever 'hate' a specific kind of character - much less to act against it in-game. It's the absolute worst kind of GM partisanship to do so.
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2012-11-19, 05:44 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2008
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Since is discovered that 3.5 psionics were no where near as borked as 3.0 psionics, I have had a very hard time bringing myself to play wizard. Wizard can do anything a psion can do, and do it better, including smashing the action economy into tiny pieces, but psion is much easier on the book keeping, letting me ignore the minutia and get back to being a proper murder hobo. I will say that crystal swarm is kinda broken, but even then a 20' cone of no save, no sr, no attack roll piercing damage is only so good.
My homebrew
Official spokesman of the totemist class for gestalt (and proud supporter of parenthetical asides (especially nested ones)). Author of a gestalt handbookSpoiler
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2012-11-19, 06:08 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Pretty much the same as my case. Almost every time I play a vancian caster it's actually a gish, and only because of the associated prestige classes. And Mirror Image, I love that little spell.
But then I remembered I'm good at adapting stuff to pf and to psionics (and pf psionics are the best thing ever ever ever ever ever ever!). So now I have a psionic swiftblade. Just need to find an item of mirror image now...
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2012-11-19, 06:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2007
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- Sydnah, Australia
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
There's lots of no save no SR damage spells wizards get. Hail of Stone is a good first level one. The 'Orb' series don't even allow reflex saves.
And yeah, i'd give a psion to a new player over a wizard (although vancian magic has wormed it's way into public consciousness via computer RPGs and books - so there's kind of a parity there), especially since a lot of the stuff psions do is actually more interesting than stuff wizards do. Wizards do horrible physical changes, brute-force spellcasting, and crazy planar summoning bullcrap. Psionics is a lot more time and mind-focused, and more subtle (except for the blasting, which is if anything less subtle).
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2012-11-19, 06:34 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2012
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- South Korea
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Can i buy a vowel? Trying to read and did not understand all the abbreviations.
I like psionics, they are a nice change and depending if you count them same or different than magic they are special or just a different user. Overall I have one in my game and ANY magicish class will dominate the minions. Overall I love them and would gladly play one if I could.
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2012-11-19, 07:03 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
TO = Theoretical Optimization, an armchair exercise in stretching an idea or hole in the rules until it pops. Often opposed to PO, or practical optimization, the construction of a character build for actual use in a normal game at a given power level.
OP = overpowered.
AMF = antimagic field, Sorcerer/Wizard 6 and Cleric 8 spell.
SR = Spell Resistance.Projects: Homebrew, Gentlemen's Agreement, DMPCs, Forbidden Knowledge safety, and Top Ten Worst. Also, Quotes and RACSD are good.
Anyone knows blue is for sarcas'ing in · "Take 10 SAN damage from Dark Orchid" · Use of gray may indicate nitpicking · Green is sincerity
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2012-11-19, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2012
Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Gamebreaking.
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2012-11-19, 07:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2011
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2012-11-19, 08:13 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Psionics: Good, Bad, or Gamebreaking
Great Modthulhu: Thread necromancy.
NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void