Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[Renegade Paladin]

One of the two Tyranid players around here liked the Doom of Malan'tai and used it all the time. Sadly for him, at that time all my infantry rode around in Chimeras, so he couldn't get its S up, and the only other things he had that could deal with armor could only do it in assault. I roflstomped him so bad one tournament that he sold off his army to the other Tyranid player for $40 and quit the game.

The other Tyranid player isn't very bright, but was smart enough to know a losing proposition when he saw one, and switched to Grey Knights. I never played his Tyranid army before he did it. And that is all of my experience with Tyranids. Anyone else want to help Mal? I'm kind of lost here.

[Wraith]

8 Genestealers
8 Gaunts (doesn't say which but they looked like Terma from the small picture on the website, kinda hard to see for sure) Correct - W.
8 Hormagaunts
3 Warriors
1 Carnifex

And the New Battleforce that has:
3 Tyranid Warriors
8 Genestealers
16 Hormagaunts
16 Termagants
3 Ripper Swarms

Now my question is this: For a new player without ANY models yet?

Generally speaking..... Neither.

In each box, you will probably only want half of the units available, so a Tyranid Battleforce isn't going to be very cost effective as either way you're going to be buying some stuff that'll be wasted.

In either cases, the Tyranid Warriors are generally good - you either want those or multiple Tervigons, and in the latter case you're going to need lots (and I mean LOTS) of Termagaunts. In 1,000pt games, 50 is a good start.

Hormagaunts are.... alright. -Ish. Kinda. They're cheap and they can move fast, but they're also weak and cowardly, so you'd be better off swapping them for Termagaunts who are also all of those things and get a lot of benefits from the Tervigon to boot.
If you can't afford a Tervigon, they'll suffice until you can.

Genestealers are controversial. In some games, the ability to have a unit with Rending attacks appear somewhere surprising on the field is great because they will maul whatever is near them, and in other games they're too expensive and are easily taken down. There is an optimum number that you'll need - 8-12 is about right - and using them as Ymgarl Genestealers is probably the better choice.

You don't want Ripper Swarms. Not even for 'free'.

Carnifex are too expensive, and work best in groups rather than alone for wound-allocation purposes. This, as you might expect, is somewhat mutually exclusive but either way taking just one on it's own is the worst of all worlds. Converting it into a Tervigon, on the other hand.....

So, honestly speaking..... Save your money. Just buy a couple of Tervigons and 4 boxes of Termagaunts, you'll use everything and it'll be more effective than either of the battlesets.

[Unseenmal]

GOOD INFO

That's huge. Because I was actually thinking that the Battleforce had good, useable stuff like the Chaos SM one I bought oh so many, mnay years ago. It was full of goodness to get me going. That's kinda disappointing about the Tyranids box.

[Renegade Paladin]

That's huge. Because I was actually thinking that the Battleforce had good, useable stuff like the Chaos SM one I bought oh so many, mnay years ago. It was full of goodness to get me going. That's kinda disappointing about the Tyranids box.

They tend to do that with battleforces, I find. The Guard one is good, but this is compensated for by the fact that the Guard battleforce is a single Troops choice. By itself.

[Cheesegear]

Now my question is this: For a new player without ANY models yet purchased, which one should I pick up? Your opinions and reasoning is welcome and most appreciated. I didn't want to search through 15 threads with 50 pages each (I'm lazy...so what?)

I started this, but nobody responded to it so I assumed nobody cared about Tyranids so I haven't done the rest. But it's a good start.

[Sila Prirode]

I started this, but nobody responded to it so I assumed nobody cared about Tyranids so I haven't done the rest. But it's a good start.

To be frank, I think it's because people expected you to finish the review on whole codex to really comment on it. At least it was like that in my case, I wanted the see the Troops and Elite slots review, to see how it meshes with what my friend and me were discussing.

[Wraith]

That's huge. Because I was actually thinking that the Battleforce had good, useable stuff like the Chaos SM one I bought oh so many, mnay years ago. It was full of goodness to get me going.

I make no claim at being a Tyranid expert, but by the sounds of things you needed a point of view to get you going, if only as inspiration for something to disagree with. I just hope it helps.

Still, if you really must buy one of the battleforces, I'd say go with the first one - if possible, because 'Nids work best when you have lots of them, two of it.
If nothing else, it gives you a decent sized unit of each basic Troop that you can play around with and see which you like the best, and it gives you a couple of Carnifex instead of Ripper Swarms. 'Nidzilla is a valid, often effective and usually fun style of army to play even if you're not going to include a Carnifex 'for real'.

There are no reasons at all to need Rippers, though. Building an army around them is.... not advised.

That's kinda disappointing about the Tyranids box.

Sadly, the common concensus is that your comment pretty much sums up the Tyranid Codex, too. It takes a lot of forethought, effort and above-average luck to craft a good Tyranid army. Arguably more than it's worth in the end.

I started this, but nobody responded to it so I assumed nobody cared about Tyranids so I haven't done the rest. But it's a good start.

Apologies, CG - I didn't refrain from commenting because I wasn't interested, but because it's hard to add anything of value to your comments beyond:

Yes.

Yes.

Yes.

I agree.

No, tha-... Oh no, you're right.

Yes.

I would like to see the rest, even if it makes me seem like a Yes-Man.

[evisiron]

Gah. I've got about one month before the doubles tournament, and we're both keen to have unique well painted forces. The 3 weeks we planned to have to playtest lists and iron out problems has been consumed by us taking turns to be sick to the point of incapacitation. This was going to vital as neither of us played much of the armies being used, but we'll have to start construction to have it ready in time.

And so I once again ask the forumites with Space Wolf and Space Marine knowledge their advice on what lists to use. It's a 2x 750pt doubles tournament with shared FO chart and both forces counting as the same army for special rules, joining unit etc. The tournament facility is loaded with multi story ruins.

The Space Wolves one is fairly set, but could be tweaked:

Spoiler

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HQ

Wolf Lord
-Thunderwolf
-Storm Shield
-Power Fist
-Saga of the Bear

Wolf Lord
-Thunder Wolf
-Belt of Russ
-Frost Blade
-Saga of warrior born

Troops

5x Grey hunters
-Melta Gun

FA

3 Thunderwolves
-Powerfist
-Stormshield
[Given Move Through Cover by tournament chart]

I'd love to take some Wargear Wolves and necklaces, but it's tricky finding the points. Is saga of the Warrior Born worth it, I've never seen it used?

The Space marine lists are the real puzzle. In each case Shrike joins the thunderwolves to sneak them in.
List 1:

Spoiler

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HQ

Shrike

Troops

5x Scouts
-Sniper rifles
-Camo Cloaks
-Missile Launcher
-Locator beacon
-Melta bombs

5x Scouts
-Sniper rifles
-Camo Cloaks
-Missile Launcher
-Locator beacon
-Melta bombs

5x Scouts
-Sniper rifles
-Camo Cloaks
-Missile Launcher
-Locator beacon

5x Assault Terminators
-3x Thunderhammer/storm shield
-2x Lightning claws
[Given Counter Charge by tournament chart]

List 2

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HQ

Shrike

Troops

10x Scouts
-Missile Launcher
-Melta bombs
[Given Stealth by tournament chart]

Fast Attack

2x Landspeeder Typhoon
-2x Heavy flamers

1x Lanspeeder Typhoon
-Multi melta

Heavy Support

Predator
-Sponson lascannons

I also have a variant list which is basically 3 Predators plus the scouts.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Cheers in advance.

[Renegade Paladin]

I have seen with my own eyes 4x Thunderwolf cavalry accompanying a Thunderwolf-mounted Wolf Lord with Saga of the Warrior Born kill an entire one of these over a multi-turn assault. It is totally, totally worth it if you can get into assault with a lot of things that he can kill with one attack each.

[Cheesegear]

I have seen with my own eyes 4x Thunderwolf cavalry accompanying a Thunderwolf-mounted Wolf Lord with Saga of the Warrior Born kill an entire one of these over a multi-turn assault. It is totally, totally worth it if you can get into assault with a lot of things that he can kill with one attack each.

I've seen a Blendernought do the same thing.

[Squark]

I have seen with my own eyes 4x Thunderwolf cavalry accompanying a Thunderwolf-mounted Wolf Lord with Saga of the Warrior Born kill an entire one of these over a multi-turn assault. It is totally, totally worth it if you can get into assault with a lot of things that he can kill with one attack each.

10char
what

[Renegade Paladin]

what

Reap a great tally, brothers.

I've seen a Blendernought do the same thing.

Yeah, but that hardly counts; the Blendernought is immune to the Tide as soon as it takes out the Warboss.

[BoSheck]

Gah. I've got about one month before the doubles tournament, and we're both keen to have unique well painted forces. The 3 weeks we planned to have to playtest lists and iron out problems has been consumed by us taking turns to be sick to the point of incapacitation. This was going to vital as neither of us played much of the armies being used, but we'll have to start construction to have it ready in time.

And so I once again ask the forumites with Space Wolf and Space Marine knowledge their advice on what lists to use. It's a 2x 750pt doubles tournament with shared FO chart and both forces counting as the same army for special rules, joining unit etc. The tournament facility is loaded with multi story ruins.

The Space Wolves one is fairly set, but could be tweaked:

Spoiler

Show

HQ

Wolf Lord
-Thunderwolf
-Storm Shield
-Power Fist
-Saga of the Bear

Wolf Lord
-Thunder Wolf
-Belt of Russ
-Frost Blade
-Saga of warrior born

Troops

5x Grey hunters
-Melta Gun

FA

3 Thunderwolves
-Powerfist
-Stormshield
[Given Move Through Cover by tournament chart]

I'd love to take some Wargear Wolves and necklaces, but it's tricky finding the points. Is saga of the Warrior Born worth it, I've never seen it used?

The Space marine lists are the real puzzle. In each case Shrike joins the thunderwolves to sneak them in.

I like the second vanilla marines list, or the 3x preds. Assault terminators are redundant and you won't be able to get people out of their boxes. Allow me to make recommendations for Space Wolves:
2x lords is a nono at 1500 points. Warrior born is fun, it's fairly strong, and it's flavorful. When I'm strapped for points I drop it.

Lets see if we can tweak your list to make it a little better.

Spoiler

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Wolf Lord
-Thunder Wolf
-Storm Shield
-Wolf Claw
-Saga of warrior born
-2x Fenrisian Wolves

5x Grey Hunters
-Melta Gun

4x Thunderwolf Cavalry
-Powerfist
-Storm Shield
-Melta Bomb

Long Fangs
-4x Missile Launcher

705 points

EDIT: Wolf Claws are better than frost blades. And WAY better with Warrior born.
Tadaaaa. It's cleaner, you've got little doggies you're okay with putting wounds on, and whereas your cavalry unit previously had 12 wounds, it will now have 13. Also you can make do shenaningans with the Fenrisian wolves to engage something in combat but keep it from actually being able to put attacks into your cavalry while you multiassault other more important things.

But wait, there's more. I left seventy points open. You could fit two rhinos. You could beef out your grey hunters so they can survive a little shooting and hold an objective. You could take those points and upgrade some missile launchers to lascannons. You could drop the long fangs if you take the 3x pred marine list and get a rune priest for psychic dominance.

But you said there's a lot of multilevel ruins. Long fangs. Long fangs in terrain with height advantages.

[Tome]

I started this, but nobody responded to it so I assumed nobody cared about Tyranids so I haven't done the rest. But it's a good start.

I don't think there was much we could add beyond some variant of 'moar plz'.

[Hootman]

So, that 1850 tournament I've been ranting about randomly? I MAY just go play for the fun of it instead of trying to win. If I lose spectacularly enough, I'll get the "Smokin' Boots" Award for Most Traitorous Dice. (Again. )

In pursuit this most excellent prize, I'm seriously considering playing orks.

Spoiler

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HQ
Warboss, 160pts
-Powerklaw, Kombiskorcha, Cybork Body, Attack Squig, Bosspole, Warbike

Big Mek, 143pts
-Powerklaw, Shokk Attack Gun, 'Eavy Armor, Cybork Body, Bosspole, Ammo Runt


ELITES
Lootas 7, 105pts

Lootas 7, 105pts

Lootas 7, 105pts


TROOPS
Nob Bikerz 6, 340pts
-Powerklaw, Waaagh! Banner, Painboy

Shoota Boyz 20, 180pts
-2 Rokkits, Nob (PK, Bosspole)

Shoota Boyz 20, 180pts
-2 Rokkits, Nob (PK, Bosspole)

Shoota Boyz 20, 180pts
-2 Rokkits, Nob (PK, Bosspole)

Grots 18, 64pts
-Runtherd

Grots 17, 61pts
-Runtherd


HEAVY SUPPORT
Big Gunz 2, 75pts
-Zzap Guns, 2 Ammo Runts
+3 Crew

Big Gunz 2, 75pts
-Zzap Guns, 2 Ammo Runts
+3 Crew

Big Gunz 2, 75pts
-Zzap Guns, 2 Ammo Runts
+3 Crew

TOTAL: 1848 points

This is pretty much the only thing I can come up with to even potentially be able to compete with a Razorspam or similar list. Minimize targets for the anti-tank weapons, throw in a bunch of Frequently Anti-Tank Strength guns, and just go to town.

I really do not want to build The Ork List (Battlewagons and KFFs), and not just because I don't have any tourney-legal Battlewagons. I've tried that list before, and it generally just lets me down (kind of like how my Tyranid bro plays his Ultra-Meta list and still loses, even to my Orks). Aside from that, all comments and suggestions are welcome.

[Unseenmal]

I started this, but nobody responded to it so I assumed nobody cared about Tyranids so I haven't done the rest. But it's a good start.

That's pretty damn good. I'd love to hear your run-down on the rest if you're up to it. I saw a similar rundown on another site but that guy gave every HQ choice an A or A- grade but then his descriptions would seem to contradict his grades. That made it hard to see what he thought was good/bad. And to give a direction to someone like me. I see all of the options and it kinda gets overwhelming quick.

Give me a CSM Codex and I'm good because I've been playing them for a long time but this....this just made my head spin when I started reading thru the codex.

[Squark]

While I'm just echoing everyone else, I really do appreciate the Cheesegear reviews. Wouldn't mind one for each codex, actually. Let's me get a feel for what my opponent's armies might be like, if nothing else.

[Penguinizer]

I have a quick question about Necrons. I'm thinking about starting a small Necron army for a slow-grow campaign my LGS is going to run. The idea was to have Necron Warriors painted to look like ghost with greenstuffed pirate hats so that I can have ghost-pirates in boats (converted DE Raiders with cannons on the sides) firing broadsides at people.

While it's silly and fun from a fluff perspective, are Immortals really that much better that having transports doesn't make up for the difference?

[Eldan]

Actually, if I were to start a second 40k army (unlikely, since my Eldar are only half built/updated to this edition and the next one is coming out soon), it would almost certainly be nids. I'm a biologist, my speciality are insects. I love most tyranid models, too. It saddens me a bit to hear that the codex is apparently bad.

[Sila Prirode]

I have a quick question about Necrons. I'm thinking about starting a small Necron army for a slow-grow campaign my LGS is going to run. The idea was to have Necron Warriors painted to look like ghost with greenstuffed pirate hats so that I can have ghost-pirates in boats (converted DE Raiders with cannons on the sides) firing broadsides at people.

While it's silly and fun from a fluff perspective, are Immortals really that much better that having transports doesn't make up for the difference?

Well can't you do Immortals with hats? They are a troop choice after all. How small are we talking, 500 points?

[Penguinizer]

No clue on the points amount. It's still in the planning phase. It's not really about the hats. It's more about the broadsides and taking Ghost Arc's without anything in them seems rather silly.

I think I'll consider Immortals. I'll need to give the codex a look.

[Sila Prirode]

No clue on the points amount. It's still in the planning phase. It's not really about the hats. It's more about the broadsides and taking Ghost Arc's without anything in them seems rather silly.

I think I'll consider Immortals. I'll need to give the codex a look.

Oh, right, Immortals can't take Ghost Arks as dedicated transports. Well, if you are worried about anti-armor, take Crypteks (ship captains, of course ) and make them into Destruction Harbringers. That, coupled with Gauss glancing should be enough for lower points. If you get into mid points, you can take some other means of anti-armor (sea kraken C'tan or Triarch Stalker, cannon barge Destroyers, you get the idea).

[evisiron]

EDIT: Wolf Claws are better than frost blades. And WAY better with Warrior born.

Cheers for the advice BoSheck, it is now being assimilated into our knowledge base. *nom nom nom*

I was curious about the above statement though, why would a wolf claw be better than a frost blade? I know rerolls are fantastic when it's the likes of 4+ needed or worse, but as a S5 WS5 Lord should be hitting and wounding on 3+. A rough run of the numbers comes up with about the same number of wounds inflicted from either if they have the same number of attacks, which isn't bad for 5pts cheaper for the claw, but doesn't factor the likes of
1. Frost blade + bolt pistol = +1 attack (only 4+ invul from Belt of Russ though)
2. Better results against armour
3. S6 Inflicts instant death against T3

I just don't see any major benefit from the Claw, what am I missing?

[Cheesegear]

To be frank, I think it's because people expected you to finish the review on whole codex to really comment on it.

I would like to see the rest, even if it makes me seem like a Yes-Man.

I don't think there was much we could add beyond some variant of 'moar plz'.

I'd love to hear your run-down on the rest if you're up to it.

While I'm just echoing everyone else, I really do appreciate the Cheesegear reviews.

...Well, looks like I have to keep writing. So, turns out that just because you aren't commenting, doesn't mean you don't care. But, it just turns out that it's really hard to notice.

I'm a biologist, my speciality are insects. I love most tyranid models, too. It saddens me a bit to hear that the codex is apparently bad.

Let's be friends. If there was money in it, I'd do insects - or birds. Unfortunately, when it comes to Biology, people is where the money is. So I'll just stick pins in things on my own time just for myself. So, I'm in Medicine (if anybody ever wanted to know what Cheesegear does, he's a Pathologist doing a Masters degree in Forensics).

]I saw a similar rundown on another site but that guy gave every HQ choice an A or A- grade but then his descriptions would seem to contradict his grades.

When I was a newb, I found those kinds of reviews confusing as well. Since their 'A+'s never seemed to work out for me. Later on, I would discover that how people perceive units and their effectiveness is directly proportional to their style of play and the meta-game they play in. Which is why I try to include things like 'if you need it' and 'if this appeals to you' and I also recognise that not all options work in all points levels (Tyranids is a bigger offender than most). So, while Swarmlord is really, really good (as in 'A'), I'm fully aware that he doesn't really work in 1000 point games and I try and point those kinds of things out.

[BoSheck]

Cheers for the advice BoSheck, it is now being assimilated into our knowledge base. *nom nom nom*

I was curious about the above statement though, why would a wolf claw be better than a frost blade? I know rerolls are fantastic when it's the likes of 4+ needed or worse, but as a S5 WS5 Lord should be hitting and wounding on 3+. A rough run of the numbers comes up with about the same number of wounds inflicted from either if they have the same number of attacks, which isn't bad for 5pts cheaper for the claw, but doesn't factor the likes of
1. Frost blade + bolt pistol = +1 attack (only 4+ invul from Belt of Russ though)
2. Better results against armour
3. S6 Inflicts instant death against T3

I just don't see any major benefit from the Claw, what am I missing?

WS6 lord, but that's not the point.

So concerning S6 vs S5 with rerolls to hit or wound: What are you going to do, ID a farseer? Nuke a Commissar? Those models were dead the second your Wolf Lord made b2b with them. The rerolls are AMAZING so you can start blenderizing actual groups of guys. You especially want it with Warrior Born. Thats what I was getting at. I've played all different kinds of loadouts with my cavalry HQ chocies, and I always find that Claw/Shield is the one I find the best.

I don't see any reason I'd take a Belt of Russ over a Storm Shield. That 3++ on T5 is...dumb. Also your unit will get shot at... a lot. So you need to make sure that your already 250+ point character lives long enough to do the work you brought him to do.

As for armor...I usually don't run my wolf lord at armor. If you're concerned about 6@s5 not being enough backed up by 17 s5 rending and 5s10 power fist attacks and the fact that your long fangs have been shooting at it before you got there....spend the points you saved not getting a frost weapon on melta bombs. If my main wolf group is charging though, I usually split the Lord off to go find something squishier to play with anyway, unless I need his massive body to block one of the hatches.

I'll say this, though. Frost Axes and Frost Blades look totally sweet, and they are, aesthetically, better when paired with a storm shield.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, there's always the odd case of a primaris psyker making all his invulnerable saves and then using his force weapon. Farseers would present an even larger problem if Eldar used force weapons, but they don't.

[lord_khaine]

Well, there's always the odd case of a primaris psyker making all his invulnerable saves and then using his force weapon. Farseers would present an even larger problem if Eldar used force weapons, but they don't.

Yeah, this is totaly unfair, and the reason for why i usualy pick Eldrath, he might not be able to kill much, but at least he can act as a tarpit for a lot of things.

[Eldan]

Let's be friends. If there was money in it, I'd do insects - or birds. Unfortunately, when it comes to Biology, people is where the money is. So I'll just stick pins in things on my own time just for myself. So, I'm in Medicine (if anybody ever wanted to know what Cheesegear does, he's a Pathologist doing a Masters degree in Forensics).

True enough. No one's in ecology or zoology for the money. Which is why you tend to get a collection of really interesting people.

[Cheesegear]

Tyranids (cont.)

Elites

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Hive Guard (Lurk): Always a solid choice. Having T6 and 2 Wounds each, they actually do basically count as 2 Missile Launchers for 50 points apiece. Lurk means they don't totally suck when they leave Synapse because you do actually want them shooting their ranged weapons as often as they can. Pretty much one of the better choices regardless of army build and points limit.

Lictor (Lurk): Ew. Chameleonic Skin would be okay, if Pheramone Trail applied to itself, but it doesn't. Which means you need Hive Commanders or Swarmlord to stack, and if you're going to be doing that, well, you've already got a Hive Commander or Swarmlord to do the Reserve manipulation already instead. S6 Rending Flesh Hooks would be okay, if it wasn't AP- and the Lictor wasn't BS3. Flesh Hooks are not a Demo Charge. Lictors are not Marbo. Given that Lictors will almost always be deployed outside Synapse, 'Lurking' is exactly what Lictors don't want to be doing. Unless you plan on investing heavily in Mycetic Spores, Lictors are otherwise terrible.

Deathleaper (Lurk): Coming at the cost of two and bit Lictors, this guy comes with all the downsides of normal Lictors (which is a lot), but doesn't have the extra wounds that two Lictors would have. Ultimately, you're paying a whole lot of points to reduce an enemy ICs Leadership by D3 (roll a '1'). It can be okay when facing Librarians, but it isn't so much an issue when you already have Shadow in the Warp. Basically just as terrible as a Lictor, except you're paying for two and half of them which you wouldn't normally do anyway.

Venomthropes (Feed): It all depends on how many units you plan to have, and how much natural cover is available for your shooty units and whether or not you plan to run anything expensive (i.e; Warriors) up the board. Warriors are one of the main units that will benefit from this guy, but, so will your Monstrous Creatures, who, without 2+ saves, nor Invulnerables generally need all the help they can get. Keep in mind that Venomthropes are a pain in the arse for your opponent and they probably will end up targeting it - a lot. To that end, it's often helpful to keep them out of LoS (their cloud still works), or to walk them behind Monstrous Creatures (Carnifii and Hive Tyrants love Venomthropes). If anything, a Venomthrope should always have a 4+ cover save by being behind another unit. Good unit. But only if you need it. Feeding shouldn't usually be a problem since the things that most need Cover Saves (who the Venomthropes should be babysitting) nearly all have Synapse.

Zoanthropes: Note the Synapse. The difference between these guys and Hive Guard is +10 points for less toughness, and needing LoS to shoot (and, in return, being in opposing LoS). Warp Lance is okay, Warp Blast isn't that great. The other problem being the problem that all psychic shooting attacks have; Roll test. Roll To Hit. Instead of just rolling To Hit straight up (Hive Guard). The other thing to note is that both Lance and Blast are within range of Psychic Hoods which generally screw over every single Zoanthrope ever, and Runes of Warding are even worse. They can be decent in a Mycetic Spore, but, Zoanthropes are surprisingly fragile given their 3+ Invulnerable, and using a Mycetic Spore usually just drops them in the middle of your opponent's formation. So I hope your incredibly difficult powers go off...Even though you could pay less points for more durability and reliability...

Zoanthropes hit hard and die easily. Hive Guard hit reasonably and don't die easily for less points. Nearly everyone prefers Hive Guard because in the current meta Psychic Hoods are basically standard. And Hive Guard ignore Cover which is basically awesome on toast.

Doom of Malan'tai (Feed): Half again the cost of a Zoanthrope. Spirit Leech and Absorb Life are fine. Except they aren't. Spirit Leech allows cover saves, and doesn't work at all against anything in a vehicle (even Open-Topped ones), which, sadly, is the majority of the meta-game. Malan'tai must be in a Mycetic Spore, otherwise your opponent will piss themselves and aim everything at Malan'tai, that'll happen anyway once you land, but it's better than losing him on the first turn and not doing anything. Most of the time, Spirit Leech will happen once, so it had better count. Cataclysm is decent, but, remember that you're using a Mycetic Spore (right?) and Malan'tai is not Synapse (if I had 5c everytime someone assumed that he did...I'd have like, a dollar), which means if he fails his check (Ld10, thankfully) he can't use Cataclysm because he'll be affected by totally-stupid-Tyranid-version of Rage where he can't shoot.
Glass Cannon. And Glass Cannons are not good.

Pyrovores (Feed): Just bad. None of the Tyranid players I speak to have ever found a use for them (3 in a Mycetic Spore seems to be the only choice, and it still isn't a good one). And this author has never found them particularly threatening. Feel free to totally ignore. Due to having halfway decent ranged weapons and being absolutely mediocre in Assault, Feed is generally annoying.

Ymgarl Genestealers: I'm yet to hear anyone say that these guys are anywhere even close to being not useful. Again - like Lictors - these guys have the problem of being mandatory Reserves, meaning that you really need to take Hivemander or Swarmlord for them to be better than they otherwise are (waiting 'til Turn 5 for Reserves is just terrible), and that's not necessarily a bad thing, mind. Just something to think about. When they come out, it's probably best to use the Toughness on the turn they come out, that way they win less (they should never, ever, ever lose combat) and don't completely wipe out the unit they Assault just to be shot at in your opponent's next turn. S5 Rending is also okay against Vehicles and unlike regular Genestealers, their 4+ save means they aren't insta-gibbed by ubiquitous Bolters. Despite being 'named', Ymgarls aren't even Unique.

Ultimately, Zoanthropes and Hive Guard fill the same role. You don't need both. Hive Guard are cheaper and live longer if I haven't made that absolutely clear yet. Venomthropes are for when you play with particularly expensive Monstrous Creatures (like groups of Carnifii) or bricks of Warriors that you absolutely want to get in combat / not die, Venomthropes are also 'better' when you play in a meta with less terrain than you probably should have. Ymgarls will always have a place in any army - if you want them.

I don't know why I've never thought of this for my other guides, but I'm going to copy-paste this into the first part.

[Squark]

Generally lines up with what I'd gathered from my own games, although I never saw some of the more unusual units, and all of my experience came from 3E Necrons, so Zoanthropes were a lot more threatening (only having 1 Heavy Destroyer will do that). Still, If I encounter a new Nid player (My friend who used to curbstomp me has sold his off after moving into Blood Angels).


Battle Report (1250 points)

My list

Spoiler

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HQ: Nemesor Zahndrekh
Harbinger of Destruction with Gaze of Flame
Harbinger of Destruction with Solar Pulse
Harbinger of Destruction
Harbinger of Transmogrification

Troops
7x Necron Immortals (HoD w/ SP)
7x Necron Immortals (HoD w/ GoF, Zahndrekh)
8x Necron Warriors (HoD)
8x Necron Warriors (HoT)

Elites
C'tan Shard with Trans-dimensional Thunderbolt and Lord of Flame
Triach Stalker

Fast Attack
4x Canoptek Wraiths with 2 Whip Coils

Opponent's list (Blood Angels)
Chaplain with Some sort of Power weapon
Astroth the Grim

2 Sanguinary Priests, one has jump pack

10 Assault Marines w 2 meltas
10 Assault Marines with No Jump packs and 2 meltas (Plazerback, but rode in the Stormraven)

Stormraven

Spoiler

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Setup: Dawn of War, with 5 paint pot objectives spread around the battlefield for Seize ground. He goes first, and drops the plazerback smack dab in the center of the field, and holds back his other units (Can you hold back some of your innitial units in Dawn of War?). I drop both squads of immortals in ruins on each of my corners.

Turn 1: I don't seize the Initiative. He flat outs the stormraven in, and runs the Jump Packs close enough they can assault me next turn. The raven kills 1 Immortal with an Assault Cannon. I deploy everything on the left side of the board where he is. (Might have been better to deploy on the other end, for more shooting time). The Harbinger of Destruction fires his lance at the Stormraven. Hit. Glance Doesn't save. ... Immobilize I just killed a stormraven on turn 1. Happy face. I forgot to use Zahndrekh this turn. Probably a mistake, since giving something counter attack would have helped.

Turn 2: The footslogging Assault Marines with the vanilla chaplain manage to duo assault the wraiths and a group of warriors. They're wiped but Ever living means the Harbinger of TRansmogrification gets back up. Jump pack dudes manage to melta down the Walker, although 1 of them in each squad blows up Plazerback annoys the immortals. My turn now. C'tan assaults the footslogging assault marines. Gradually begins a several turn tarpit that would eventually kill all 10 marines, before being killed by Astroth, who came in with the assist here. Some shooting goes on.

Turn 3: Jump marines attack and wipe warrior squad 2. Plazerback moves to deny Zahndrekh's squad the objective, flatting out. Immortals spend the next few turns with counter attack to discourage an assault that never came. Not much to say.

Turn 4: Ctan dies this turn, but takes the last vanilla marines with him when he blows up. His last troop choice moves, with his Priests and HQs, to take an objective away from me. Plazerback attempts to contest objective, and fails to kill anything. To be fair to it, so did Zahndrekhs squad.

Turn 5: Plazerback fails again, and the remaining blood angels are on a paint pot objective. Zahndrekh gives his squad tank hunters, and wrecks the plazerback with 17 S6 shots and an Eldritch lance turned Lascannon. Game ends

Result: Loss, because it turns out I can't hold an objective on the ground from the second floor. Wait... Can't I control an objective from 6 inches with a troop choice?

So... loss from a rookie mistake, unless I was right about that rule, in which case it was a tie.

Things I learned: Warriors need numbers to suceed, which I didn't give them.
Feel no Pain annoys me to no end.
Cryptek special weapons are GOLD... when the die can actually roll.

Also, Space Wolves Battleforce should arrive in 2 weeks, so that's something to look forward to.