Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[evisiron]

Cheers for the input Cheesegear. I've been re-reading the relevant CG guides, stroking my beard and going "hmm...".

I never noticed the way the Necron Death Way was written, but you are totally right. At least they fixed it in the FAQ, even if they didn't errata it.

The Grey Knights are swamping the tournaments at the moment and seem extremely boring to fight against, so I kind of want to avoid them. I'm on the fence between DE and Necrons. I have tasted the bitter sting of the buckets of Venom spam shots hurled at me, and like the Mobility + Shooty elements of such a force.
On the other hand, the last tournament was won by someone using Necrons with unpainted Star Wars toy Droid ships, and the army was so ugly I want to show that a flyer army can be done to look better.

[Sila Prirode]

Necron Death Way should totally be a thing! And yes, it had to be said.

[Renegade Paladin]

Bolded for emphasis.
And if you want wolf guard for ablative wounds in Long Fangs, those wolfguard need NO wargear, since they are the first thing that wounds get put on.

Unless he's Arjac Rockfist, with multimelta-armed Long Fangs in a drop pod with Logan Grimnar, amirite?

[Etcetera]

Necron Death Way should totally be a thing! And yes, it had to be said.

Some sort of living metal battle segway?

[evisiron]

Some sort of living metal battle segway?

IT MUST BE MADE! Someone find a Master of Conversions with too much free time!

[Callistarius]

I know that Cheesegear has repeatedly said that Nathaniel Garro is the greatest Astartes ever and this was something I absolutely agreed with. Until reading "Know no fear" the latest HH novel, which I believe is among the strongest of the series (along with Legion & The First Heretic). Sergeant Thiel is at least on par with Garro, if not better. The fact that the red helmet for Ultramarines was formerly a mark of censure but became a signal honour for sergeants because of Thiel's action during the Battle of Calth shows part of the pure awesomeness that is Thiel.

[crazedloon]

The fact that the red helmet for Ultramarines was formerly a mark of censure but became a signal honour for sergeants because of Thiel's action during the Battle of Calth shows part of the pure awesomeness that is Thiel.

you mean the single act which makes it easier to pick out the chain of command to severely hinder your battle plan? Oh that's right we are in the 4st millennium where tactics like shoot the leader in the face does not happen

[dgnslyr]

Maybe he's the leader because he managed to not die despite having a big honking target on his face? Surviving a lot of battles like that must be a pretty good sign of competency.

[Drasius]

Considering that wearing a helmet is "Doing it Wrong" in 40k and going double for SM, I think it's actually more of a sign of bad-arsery.

[evisiron]

Hmm, on the fence Rules/modelling question here.

For the Night Scythes and Doom Scythes for the Necrons, is there any solid indication on what size they need to be or whether they are on a flying base?

Common sense dictates they are flyers (based on fluff, images etc) and need the flyer base and will be Vendetta sized, but from a rules perspective is there any information given beyond them being "Vehicle - Skimmer".

I'm tempted to convert up some eldar Falcons until the official models come out, so I'm trying to see if there are any requirements I must adhere to for tournaments and the like.

[Cheesegear]

For the Night Scythes and Doom Scythes for the Necrons, is there any solid indication on what size they need to be or whether they are on a flying base?

Well, the Doom Scythe (pg 50) has a Necron pilot, which should give you an indication of scale. Most of the conversions I've seen have used parts from the Falcon and Catacomb Command Barge. Others have even used Destroyer parts as well, given what the back part of the Doom Scythe looks like.

Bigger than a Command/Annhilation Barge, smaller than a tank. Probably about the size of a Razorwing.

so I'm trying to see if there are any requirements I must adhere to for tournaments and the like.

When it comes to scratch-builds, it's entirely up to the TO. So, yeah.

[Ninjaman]

I was wondering what options are worth it for a comand squad?
Vox caster: I think it is, it is cheap.
Medi pack: good but expencive.
Camo cloaks: Same as medi packs, cheaper, not quite as good, i think. Is it ever worth it taking both?
Regimental standard: if i would have to leave something out it would propperbly be this, is that correct?
Carapace armor: Camocloaks are better.
Krak-grenades: You don't want them fighting CC with a tank, you shoot it.

And what about bodyguards?

[Cheesegear]

Vox caster: I think it is, it is cheap.
Medi pack: good but expencive.
Camo cloaks: Same as medi packs, cheaper, not quite as good, i think. Is it ever worth it taking both?
Regimental standard: if i would have to leave something out it would propperbly be this, is that correct?
Carapace armor: Camocloaks are better.
Krak-grenades: You don't want them fighting CC with a tank, you shoot it.

Vox-Caster; There are very few - if any - reasons why you wouldn't take one, especially on your Command Squad. Sometimes you'll find that you have 45 or less points left over at the end after you've bought everything else, if you don't have Voxes on all your units, you should.

Medi-Pack; Some people use them, other people don't. It helps you survive longer, but it also takes a weapon slot. i.e; The guy with the Medi-Pack can't take a Plasma or Meltagun.

Camo-Cloaks; Meh.
Regimental Standard; Ignore.

Carapace Armour; Camo Cloaks are only better if you aren't rocking around with Plasma weapons. If you're in a vehicle, Carapace Armour is also good since you wont get gibbed when your Transport blows up. It also gives that all important save against Bolters. Camo Cloaks need you to be in cover to begin with, and don't help you at all in Assault.

Krak Grenades; Who said anything about Assaulting tanks? It's Walkers Assaulting you that you have to worry about. Just last week my Command Squad was locked in combat for four rounds with a War Walker because I didn't have Krak Grenades.

Bodyguards aren't useful. That's 30 Points you could spend on anything else.

[Renegade Paladin]

Well, bodyguards could be marginally useful if you wanted to make assault Guard for some reason and wanted some more WS4 guys in your command squad. But they're too expensive just for that.

I have two command squad loadouts: Three plasma guns, medipack, and carapace armor in a Chimera for taking the fight to the enemy with my meltavets, and either bare bones or camo cloaks only depending on spare points for hiding in the back with the blob(s) and being an order generator.

Edit: At any rate, I have a rules question regarding template-throwing weapons (like the Inferno Cannon) and armor facings. I'll illustrate the question using sprites:



Here we have a Hellhound projecting its flame template at a Razorback. The question: Is the Hellhound in the Razorback's side arc, since that's where the vehicle is (striking against AV11) or is the shot considered to come from the point from which the template is projected, which would put it in the rear arc (striking against AV10)?

[lord_khaine]

Is there any reason for why it should not be the same way as with blast markers, and hit av 11?

[Sila Prirode]

Well, rules would suggest you hit on the side you are facing, as per Template and Blast weapons against vehicles (pg. 60 in little rulebook).
Also, from RAI, that makes sense, since you are still firing from your turret gun, it's just that a stream of fire is long it hits even that far away.

[Timberwolf]

Played an Apocalypse game yesterday, it was brutal. All that was left was a serious understrength squad of boyz, a single meganob and an imobilised furioso after my Titan's single structure point stomp of destruction across the width of the board. I lost, of course, but it was good. I killed a Stompa with my Librarian and Death Company and also pounded Snikrot and a big squad of Kommandoz with them. My opponant didn't even wait for the power weapons to finish falling. Of course, the sheer amount of Rokkits and S10 powerklaws did for me, but it was worth it to kill Ghazkull in combat and lagh maniacally as the Rokkits just bounced off my poor, shot up Titan. I now love the Inferno cannon.

[Renegade Paladin]

Is it just me, or have all the Imperial Armour and other Forge World books vanished from the face of GW's website?

[Timberwolf]

They're still in the stores as of Saturday here in the UK. I bought the Doom of Mymeara. However, there's no sign of them on the site. Fortunately Forge World will still have them.

[Renegade Paladin]

They're still in the stores as of Saturday here in the UK. I bought the Doom of Mymeara. However, there's no sign of them on the site. Fortunately Forge World will still have them.

Yes, I'm actually putting together a Forge World order for my club now. But it was cheaper to get the books through GW.

Ah well. Probably too late now; if it's off the website they probably won't honor orders we put in through the store for them.

[crazedloon]

Is it just me, or have all the Imperial Armour and other Forge World books vanished from the face of GW's website?

They are no longer available through GW's website, though they are of course available through forge world of course. All GW stores however are still being restocked on the latest few (vraks to current if I am not mistaken) however if they are not in stock you will have to wait until they receive their weekly order (but provided the local staff are not complete tools I am sure they can hold one of the books for you when they get it in.)

[Renegade Paladin]

They are no longer available through GW's website, though they are of course available through forge world of course. All GW stores however are still being restocked on the latest few (vraks to current if I am not mistaken) however if they are not in stock you will have to wait until they receive their weekly order (but provided the local staff are not complete tools I am sure they can hold one of the books for you when they get it in.)

Sadly, I am dependent on an independent retailer, who they actively screw with for reasons indiscernible. (I just got done waiting three and a half weeks on an order.)

[Cheesegear]

Sadly, I am dependent on an independent retailer, who they actively screw with for reasons indiscernible. (I just got done waiting three and a half weeks on an order.)

I'm still waiting on an order I needed two weeks ago (for the tournament), and I ended up emergency-buying Cadians the day before the tournament. This from an actual GW Store. So, this is currently the third week I'm waiting.

Pretty terrible for a proper store.

[Hootman]

For the people who've played with or against Orks, what do you think are the most effective ways to field Boyz? Basically, I'm looking for number of bodies and preference for Shootas or Choppas.

Personally, I find that my Shoota Boyz pull well over their own weight in many battles (except for my Big Shootas, which I can't seem to hit with). I tend to field them this way:

Shoota Boyz 20
-2 Big Shootas, Nob with PK, 'Eavy Armor, and Bosspole

I don't get much use out of the pole, but that 'Eavy Armor on a two-wound model has saved me a lot of casualties ever since I realized how much difference the 4+ Save could make.

What I'm now thinking about is trying to test out Trukkin' Boyz, but I can't figure out if the extra shooting is worth the lesser number of attacks in assault on a unit that is clearly designed to charge recklessly into close combat. In addition to this, does anyone have suggestions for what kind of special weapons I should add the the squad? I know Powerklaw Nobs are pretty much manditory on all squads that can take them, but what about the fancy shooting weapons?

[Sila Prirode]

A friend of mine plays Orks, so I can give some experience from other side of the field.

Personally, I find that my Shoota Boyz pull well over their own weight in many battles (except for my Big Shootas, which I can't seem to hit with). I tend to field them this way:

Shoota Boyz 20
-2 Big Shootas, Nob with PK, 'Eavy Armor, and Bosspole

I don't get much use out of the pole, but that 'Eavy Armor on a two-wound model has saved me a lot of casualties ever since I realized how much difference the 4+ Save could make.

This is almost exactly how he fields them, but he likes to give them Rokkit Launchas too. Reasoning is that they ain't so expensive, and he fit two into this kind of unit. 20 boyz makes 2 Rokkits, if I remember correctly? And if he comes into assault range it's usually with 7-8 boyz and a Nob, so if that Rokkits connect he stands a good chance of wrecking a transport and assaulting what's in it.

What I'm now thinking about is trying to test out Trukkin' Boyz, but I can't figure out if the extra shooting is worth the lesser number of attacks in assault on a unit that is clearly designed to charge recklessly into close combat.

Trukks are ok, if you are up for it. He usually fields two or trukks, and one Battlewagon, all filled with 10ish boyz with a PK Nob. Basically the same unit as before, but 10 instead of 20 boyz.
As for special weapons, well, I already said he uses Rokkit only, Big shootas failed to impress anyone. For other special weapons you have Lootas and Flash Gitz after all.

As for actually playing against him, well, I play Chaos SMs, so:
If I don't commit enough firepower I can never kill (or get low enough) all of his boyz in time (he fields three units of them). This combined with a Killa Kan wall and Lootas makes for a tough decisions. If we play Kill points, they are hard to kill for points. If we play other two modes it's hard to drive them off objective (4+ cover, T4, 20 of them ). And he has 40 more of them to take other objectives. So I would say that for points cost they are fairly effective, and with good enough heavy hitters they are a tough nut to crack.

[Squark]

So... I now have my Space Wolves.

Total force, once assembled
Rune Priest with Chooser of the Slain and Saga of the Beastslayer
-- Murderous Hurricane, Living Lightning

5x Wolf scouts with Meltagun, 2 Power swords, and Mark of the Wulfen (On melta-guy)

5x Grey Hunters with Plasma Gun
5x Grey Hunters with Plasma Gun
10x Grey Hunters with 2 meltaguns and Mark of the Wulfen*

5x Long Fangs with 3x Rocket Launcher, 1x Lascannon

Drop Pod with Storm Bolter

Next on the list to be acquired will be another wolf pack box, to give me the wolf Guard pack leaders I need and to convert into the 6th Long Fang (A Lascannon user).



*Just to be clear; That little backpack standard that came in the Sprue does not count as a Wolf Standard, Correct?

EDIT: Do more recent versions of codexes have the errata printed in them? Looking at the errata in the FAQ, that seems to be the case with my newly purchased codex.

Also, word to the wise: When purchasing older versions of existing units, make sure GW hasn't changed the bits in the pack since that pack was made. My box of devastators came with a metal lascanon, Heavy Bolter, and what I think is a plasma cannon, and a plastic Missile Launcher. Nothing else. Fortunately I think my friend has spare Missile Launchers I can buy or trade for.

[evisiron]

For the people who've played with or against Orks, what do you think are the most effective ways to field Boyz?

I tend to find on foot big units of 30 boys with choppas (plus aforementioned Nob) are the way to go. It gives you the most time being fearless and becomes an extremely intimidating target to all but the nastiest CC units. I leave the special weapons at home, if the boys are too far to charge they should probably be running, when closing the gap they should be Waaagh-ing.

For transports I would usually recommend Battlewagons over trukks. I find the extra capacity, extra armour and addition of deffrollas are always worth the extra points cost.

If in Trukks, I would go for 12 boys, choppas, Nob with Powerklaw, Bosspole, Eavy Armour, and really go for the charge. With shoota's you can only move 6" and fire out, and stunned and shaken results will stop you from shooting out as well. Hopping out to shoot will leave them exposed, and when going for the charge the last thing you want to happen is to open fire and have tactical model removal or a failed leadership test to take you out of charge range. I feel most of the time you are better off with the extra attack.

Hope that helps.

[Teln]

*Just to be clear; That little backpack standard that came in the Sprue does not count as a Wolf Standard, Correct?

It can if you want it to--it's a standard with a wolf, innit?

EDIT: Wow, spellcheck recognizes "innit" as a word.

[Tome]

I tend to find on foot big units of 30 boys with choppas (plus aforementioned Nob) are the way to go. It gives you the most time being fearless and becomes an extremely intimidating target to all but the nastiest CC units. I leave the special weapons at home, if the boys are too far to charge they should probably be running, when closing the gap they should be Waaagh-ing.

For transports I would usually recommend Battlewagons over trukks. I find the extra capacity, extra armour and addition of deffrollas are always worth the extra points cost.

If in Trukks, I would go for 12 boys, choppas, Nob with Powerklaw, Bosspole, Eavy Armour, and really go for the charge. With shoota's you can only move 6" and fire out, and stunned and shaken results will stop you from shooting out as well. Hopping out to shoot will leave them exposed, and when going for the charge the last thing you want to happen is to open fire and have tactical model removal or a failed leadership test to take you out of charge range. I feel most of the time you are better off with the extra attack.

Hope that helps.

On the flipside, I'd recommend Shootas. There are some things that even a full mob of 30 Boyz can't beat in assault, but with Shootas you can at least try to shoot them to death. Drive-by shootings from your open-topped vehicles can be pretty effective too.

[Cheesegear]

May I have your attention please?

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....That is all.