Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[CN the Logos]

It is not an Independent Character. The (character) designation means the same thing as Unique in older codexes; it means you can't take more than one.

But I'm looking at my codex and it says that Lords and Crypteks are characters... but that I can take 0-5 of each in my Royal Court and they have to either start in a unit with the rest of the Royal Court or leading a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, or Deathmarks. Looking at the Lord entry again confirms that a Character is not the same as an Independent Character, but the rulebook confirms that not all characters are special (unique) characters, contrasting them to upgrade and independent characters. And the C'tan apparently aren't either of those.

...I have no idea what that's about.

[Squark]

But I'm looking at my codex and it says that Lords and Crypteks are characters... but that I can take 0-5 of each in my Royal Court and they have to either start in a unit with the rest of the Royal Court or leading a unit of Warriors, Immortals, Lychguard, or Deathmarks. Looking at the Lord entry again confirms that a Character is not the same as an Independent Character, but the rulebook confirms that not all characters are special (unique) characters, contrasting them to upgrade and independent characters. And the C'tan apparently aren't either of those.

...I have no idea what that's about.

I suspect the Character subtype is a new thing coming in 6th edition. Basically, models like Sergeants, the Royal Court, independent characters, and some other important models will have the (character) subtype, which will special rules and be referenced (Like with Imoktekh's humiliating defeat rule)

[Cheesegear]

Quick question: How easy is it to use the Space Wolves pack to create a Rune Priest? Because I don't particularly like working with Resin.

Depends. Pretty much every Rune Priest you're ever going to do is just going to look like a bad kit-bash. Including the real resin model. Generally, if you only work with the GH/BC box, nothing you're going to make is going to look any different to a particularly special Wolf Guard.

So, it's very easy. But it's also very same-y. Mostly, because when you 'go Codex', a Rune Priest has the same colour scheme. The only way I ended up with a Rune Priest that I liked was slapping some Grey Knight parts on him as well, and painting him black as a Deathwatch Librarian because Saga of the Beastslayer fits one of those perfectly.

[Timberwolf]

Blood Angels troops section. I've really gone to town on this one as well, again, let me know if there's anything I've missed. The Death Company have a huge section because they're really easy to get wrong and make into an ineffective points sink. Again, I've tried to offer suggestions without taking a definitive line, so I may sound a bit vague again.


Tactical Squad

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As the Blood Angels are a nominally codex compliant chapter, they feature, of course, the fluff based backbone of all chapters, the Tactical marine. Armed with a boltgun for S4 rapid fire 24 inch goodness, the Tactical squad is touted as being the ultimate utility squad, able to hold its own in shooting or assault.

Well, lets take a look.

Each marine is WS4, BS 4, T4 with a 3+ save. This means that they are durable in comparison with most other races, and they can take a wide variety of upgrades, of which the missile launcher and flamer are free, assuming the squad numbers 10. Their fire is accurate enough to stand in a gunline and be confident that they will hit and they are, due to the glories of the "And they shall know no fear" rule, immune to being sweeping advanced if you lose combat and they run.

Sounds good, right ?

There are a few caveats with Tactical squads. While they are capable of steamrollering other basic squads like a Guard squad, Guardians, Firewarriors etc, the amount of times a squad who is equipped for shooting, like a tactical squad is, will actually do this is limited. Chances are if they are in close combat, it's against a dedicated assault unit that just charged your gunline. This they will lose. They can be made to be ok in assault by equipping the sergeant with a Power Weapon or Powerfist and including a Sanguinary Priest for Feel no Pain and extra Initiative if you charge.

Another thing to be aware of is equipping your unit. You can give them the following options

Sergeant - Close combat upgrades - if you take a powerfist, swap the bolt pistol for a bolter, you won't get the extra attack anyway and the new Gamesday model is really nice. (BA Sergeant with Powerfist and bolter). If you take a power weapon, remember your meltabombs because armour will present problems..

Heavy weapon -

Lascannon - if you aren't going to move and you want heavy, long range tank busting firepower. Expensive though.
Plasma Cannon - if you are expecting Terminators and light vehicles - remember to roll your overheat.
Heavy Bolter - for hordes
Missile Launcher - General purpose. You won't be killing Landraiders with it, but for everything else, it does well enough. Plus it's free and can switch to firing template shots for thinning hordes.
Multimelta - Big, nasty antitank weapon with a very short range and the Heavy rule so it can't be fired on the move. Useful as an armour deterrent and on fast squads who are setting up in the opponent's half of the table but probably useless if you are using a deckchair squad at the back on yout objective.

Special weapons

Flamer - the classic, free but very short range. A favourite of mechanised squads as they will be moving forward into range.
Meltagun - Short range tankbusting, Obliterator gibbing and Monstrous creature tagging. S8 AP1 goes a long way. It's pretty cheap too.
Plasma gun - Identical profile to a bolter aside from being S7 AP2 with a chance of blowing yourself up. Not for the fainthearted but if there are Terminators coming, a great friend in times of trouble.

Configurations

Plasma gun, plasma cannon. Attach a priest to this squad as chances are good that you will kill one of your expensive big guns through overheats. This setup is powerful on Terminators and MC's but has a chance of blowing itself up. It's not bad against light and medium armour either due to the S7 of the Plasma.

Plasma gun, Missile Launcher. Somewhat cheaper, better against armour due to Krak missiles but loses out slightly due to the relative puniness of the blast template from the missile when it comes to blowing things with a 2/3+ save apart.

Meltagun / Flamer, Heavy weapon of your choice. If you are packing a flamer or meltagun, you want to be going forward. It's powerful but very short ranged. This means you need a transport. A favourite is a Razorback. Combat squad the troops into 2 units of 5. The unit with the Heavy weapon stays back and pots things while the meltagun / flamer unit goes off to cause trouble while the Razorback, being Fast, also pots things with its turret while going 12 inches a turn. Fast is good.

A note on tactical Marines.

This holds true for Codex Marines, Dark Angels and Blood Angels. To be brutally honest, these three books got done over on their tac squads. Space Wolves and Chaos Marines are better due to their extra close combat weapons and, in the case of Space Wolves, Acute Senses and Counter Attack rules. Do not charge Grey Hunters with Tactical Marines and expect to win. Against Chaos, your charge will be on equal terms ant then you will start to be at a disadvantage if combat drags on, which it probably will since it's marine on marine.

Scouts

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The humble scout squad. In the opinion of the author, criminally overlooked. Scouts have a poorer statline than marines, losing a point of weapons and ballistic skill and only have a 4+ save. They are cheaper, as you'd expect, but the range of upgrades is not as good and they cannot take a dedicated transport.

So, what's the point ?

While your Tactical marines are slinging their big guns and your Assault marines are handling chopping things up as expensively as possible, the Scouts are fulfilling their role as Light infantry for about 50 points less. They also do a few things that the grown up marines cannot, namely deploy a locator beacon for perfect deep strikes, infiltrate for objective stealing and outflanking for causing havoc in the back lines..

The author shall examine the four different types of scouts in turn.

Sniper scouts. - the authors weapon of choice for his scoring units. Although they only hit 50% of the time, sniper scouts can make a real mess of things if it goes right, all the while sitting on an objective being annoying. With a 36 inch range and the opportunity to inflict wounds with no save and threaten lightly armoured vehicles through rending, they can affect a game heavily. Take as many as you can without compromising the army's main purpose as the more you have, the more rends you get. Also, snipers wound on a 4+, regardless of toughness. This has its obvious advantages for dealing with big gribblies.

Sniper scouts are, in the opinion of the author, the one scout configuration that it is worth taking a heavy weapon for. As Blood Angel scouts do not get the Hellfire rounds for their Heavy Bolters that CSM's do, the missile launcher is the clear standout here. They are also worth, in the opinion of the author, springing for camo cloaks on. They should be able to stay put all game in cover so having a 3+ save against shooting is great.

Boltgun scouts - ummm. if you are taking these, take a tactical squad instead. It's the same gun, they'll hit more and they can take a meltagun. Oh, and a 5 man unit is only 15 points more than a 5 man unit of scouts. Pass.

Shotgun scouts - These are for outflanking with. A powerfist / Power weapon with meltabombs is worth it every time for threatening back line hugging tanks.

Close combat scouts - Attach a priest to make them into mini Khorne berserkers. The Author is not fond of these, but is undoubtedly doing something wrong. Just remember that attaching a priest means they lose the ability to Infiltarte and outflank, so need a transport to get close. Again, powerfist or powerweapon and meltabombs.

Assault Marines

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For many, the big draw of the Blood Angels is being able to take jump packing close combat specialists as a Troops choice. They are powerful in close combat, but not invincible, so watch how you use them. Jumping from cover to cover is always a good idea, but requires dangerous Terrain tests. You can also deep strike them. This forms the core of the "Descent of Angels" list as they only scatter by 1D6 and you can reroll the reserve dice for anything arriving by jumppack.

The upgrades for the squad are mainly concerned with the sergeant although they can take the same special weapons as a tactical squad.

Equipping Sarge with a powerfist and stormshield is an expensive, but useful upgrade as it lends the ability to threaten tanks, monstrous creatures, walkers and T4 multiwound characters alike while having the invulnerable save to survive long enough to use it.

Another favourite is power weapon and meltabombs as it is slightly cheaper than a powerfist and can damage tanks badly. The author prefers the powerfist though as it means that being assaulted by a walker is not the death sentence it would be if you only had grenades to stop it (you need to roll a 6 to plant a meltabomb on a walker in combat.)

You can also change out Sarge's pistol for an Infernus, plasma or flamer pistol. All of these are powerful, but the Infernus pistol has short range (but hits like a train in that short range) the plasma can blow you up and the flamer is only S3.

In terms of special weapons, the stand outs are the meltagun and flamer. If the author is remembering correctly, jump packs do not confer the relentless rule and therefore mean that a Plasma gun can fire, but you cannot then assault. For fast, assault specialist troops, this is bad. The Flamer and Meltagun, having the "Assault" rule, do not hinder this.

Configurations

Antitank - Powerfist, Infernus pistol, 2 meltaguns. - Deepstrike next to a tank, melta it, jump off rejoicing.

Antipersonel - Power weapon, meltabombs, hand flamer, 2 flamers. Deepstrike, land, toast stuff, jump off rejoicing

General purpose - The above 2 are specialised, perhaps to the detriment of their survivalbility. For a general purpose squad for any game, the author has found the following to be successful - Powerfist, Storm shield, 2 Meltaguns.

All of the above really benefit from a Sanguinary Priest for Furious Charge and Feel no pain.

Assault marines Part 2.

Jump packing is only half of the assault marines repertoire. There is also Transport Spam.

By removing their jumppacks, Assault Marines get a 35 point discount on transports. This opens the door to the discount Razorback and budget landraider.

The Landraider squad follows the same guise as the jump pack units only you drive up in a tank. You can take up to 10 of them in any Landraider and equip them for whatever role is needed. A Razorback squad is 5 man and therefore can only have 1 special weapon. The Powerfist is always useful here as you will need to finish fights quickly.

A common army build is three or more small Assault marine units in Razorbacks. At least one should survive to wreck havoc. Just remember that Razorbacks are not assault vehicles so plan your disembarkation carefully.

Death Company

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This is a most divisive unit and opinion varies greatly on how useful they are and how best to set them up, depending on who you ask.

A single Death company trroper is 2 points more than an Assault Marine. For the pricey points cost you get Weapons Skill 5, an extra attack, Relentless, Furious Charge, Fearless and Feel no Pain. You can also tool up exactly the way you want to. This means that you have a marine who is really hard to kill with anything short of AP2 weapons (he still gets Feel no Pain against anything AP3 that's short of a Krak Missile) or power weapons. The Author, with one Death Company Marine left, has watched him be shot by a Bladestorming full Dire Avenger Squad with Autarch, while Doomed (rerolls to wound against you) and the Avengers were Guided (rerolls to hit). All but one shot wounded the trooper. No one was more amazed than the Author when he made all but 5 armour saves and negated the rest with Feel no Pain.

This sounds great and totally undercosted, a real steal, doesn't it ?

Well, I've told you the good bits. Now for the reason why they are only 20 points and not 50 each.

They have the Rage rule.

These delusions of grandeur (they think they're Sanguinius...) infested spanner merchants have to move towards and engage the closest visible enemy. This is not good. They can be distracted and end up running around the board playing "Chase the Eldar" or "Catch the skimmer". They can be distracted and that's not good. It also has the nasty habit of putting them within charge range of the enemy and that's bad, because a lot of what makes Death Company good requires them to get the charge.

Before the Author expands on how to escape this piece of irritation, it would be helpful to explain why the Death Company needs to get the charge. Firstly, they have Furious Charge, which raises their strength and initiative by 1, meaning odds are good that they go first and they will find it easier to wound. The second reason is that taking a Chaplain with the squad is an excellent idea as it means you get rerolls to hit and wound if you charged. This converts a potentially painful charge into an outright devastating one. You do not get either of these bonuses in the second round of combat or if you did not charge so always try to make sure you are hitting the enemy. The extra attack for charging at higher initiative while having rerolls for everything makes it so much better.

Ensuring you get the charge requires a way around the Rage rule. Thankfully there is a cast iron one that even the rulebook says you can do (See Rage section). Yes, it's our old friend, take a transport. Keep the spanner patrol in there until they are pointing at the right target (or you're in trouble and need that Daemon Prince dead right now, which amounts to the same thing). Only unleash them once you are certain otherwise they'll be bumbling around doing nothing.

A note on transports

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A Rhino is a cheap way of getting the Death Company to at least be close to the enemy. It can carry up to 10, so it can carry a goodly amount. The only problem, which it shares with the Razorback, is it's flimsy armour. You do not want this thing opened up in the middle of your DZ or the middle of the board. This is really, really bad. There are better ways of supporting the Death Company. The only problem is that they require far more investment.

A Drop pod is not a good idea. You arrive on turn 1, right where the enemy can see you and then you eat every bit of shooting they have to offer as no one lets Death Company live when they are that close. The author has pulled this stunt twice. Once was an unparalleled success as no one thought he would be crazy enough to do this and set up accordingly. This mistake was not repeated when it was tried a second time.

A Landraider is a great way of travelling with the Death Company in style. Ok, it's slower than the Rhino chassis, but odds are good that it'll get there. Like all Codecies that have the three variants, the Crusader is probably the standout for delivering assault troops although the Redeemer isn't far behind. The normal Landraider is good as well, but suffers from its schizophrenic weapons loadout being more suited to back line slugging than close support.

The Stormraven is arguably better for delivering your Death Company as it is twice as fast as the Land Raider meaning that you can be in the enemy's face and assaulting on Turn 2 while the stately old Land Raider might make it for Turn 3. It is an Assault vehicle as well, which takes a lot of the fiddle out of disembarkation and assaulting. While it is in the enemies face, it also has the guns to do a load of damage.

Setting up the Death Company.

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Always take Death Company in multiples of 5. This is because for every 5 marines, you unlock a Death Company Dreadnought (more on which later) Once you have completed your army list, if you still have 20 points + then filling up with Death Company is certainly a valid choice.

Jump packs - This is a bit of an Elephant in the Room. There are few more iconic images of the Blood Angels than Jump Pack Death Company landing and wrecking people's faces. Nice. but there is a downside. Jump packing your way across the board while being raged is a terrible idea, you can forget reliably using cover. While Deep striking, you cannot assault the turn you arrive (unlike Vanguard Veterans) so the potential Dangerous terrain tests and being stood in a nice tight group for being blast templated is really not worth it. Plus you pay 15 points per jump pack and you take up spaces in the transport. This is one of the real traps in the Blood Angel codex. Since you need to be in a transport, so you're not off punching Grots while those Meganobz are chopping their way through the rest of your guys unimpeded, you'll be moving at least as fast as a jump pack can take you anyway, while not paying 45 points plus for the privilege.

Boltguns vs Bolt pistol and CCW - This is divisive as well. The theory goes that since Death Company have the Relentless rule, they can fire and move as they please, meaning that since they are marines, they hit on 3's and potentially soften the enemy before they assault with lots of shots from normal boltguns. Unfortunately you lose a close combat attack due to not having 2 CCW's

The theory on the other side goes with the view that at WS 5 you should be hitting on 3's as well most of the time and with a Chaplain in there, you get those all important rerolls to hit and wound, that against a MEQ, you're doing on 3's as well, none of which you are doing with the boltgun attacks. Even if you don't have a Chaplain, the extra ease of the to wound rolls is felt to give it an advantage. To cap it off, only one transport has firepoints and it's the worst one for the job (Rhino - cheapest though) so it's not as if you'll be doing much on the way in anyway with those boltguns. Add to this the ability to take power weapons, the author feels that the extra armour ignoring attacks that wound easier and can be made to get rerolls edges the extra shooting of the boltgun into second place.

Pistols - they're all good, just watch the price. This can get expensive.

Close combat weapons - Remember how taking 5 Death Company is considered a good move ? The Author has found that for every 5 marines, with one power weapon and one power fist / Thunder hammer is an excellent set up. It comes in at a very reasonable 140 / 145 points.

The power Fist / Thunder hammer provides anti tank punch. Combined with Furious Charge, it hits at S9, in other words, like a Lascannon. The Power Weapon is there because it always pays to whittle enemy numbers down before they can hit you. With your charging initiative of 5, you should be striking first and, without a power weapon, there is a chance that good armour save rolls will mean you have to face the full force of the enemy's squad. With no armour saves allowed, their retaliatory attacks are less and help to swing the odds in your favour.

Lemartes - Lemartes is the upgrade to the Death Company and, for a whopping 150 points, he gives you a Chaplain with a jump pack. As he is an upgrade instead of an independent character, he cannot be targeted separately in combat, always a plus. However, an elites chaplain with jump pack is 125, has the same wounds and does the same stuff. What do you get for your 25 points ?

We'll start small, Lemartes' power weapon is master crafted, which is quite useful if the fight goes on past a turn but isn't worth 25 points. As he is Death Company in his own right, he also has Feel no Pain and Furious Charge, also handy, but again, maybe 5 points each. He also has Initiative 6, meaning he will go first most of the time.

What makes him worth the extra points is Lemartes' ability to turn into a blood crazed monster. If he takes an unsaved wound and doesn't die, his strength and attacks go up to 5 each. So, if he charges, that's 7 S6 (Furious Charge) at Initiative 7 (Furious Charge again). Lemartes on one wound is quite capable of one shotting Mephiston if he charges, they go at the same time and Lemmy is hitting and wounding him on 4's with rerolls for everything. Arranging for him to take that wound is easier said than done at times (avoid that melta shot...) but is well worth the inconvenience.

Death Company Dreadnought.

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Without a doubt, this thing is one of the greatest and most feared and loathed things in the entire BA codex. Guess which side the author is on. This requires paying a 100 point Death Company tax to use, since you need 5 in the list before you can take one. If you want 2 Dreads, you need 10 Death Company, which is pricey.

This has been described by a Tyranid player of the Author's acquaintance as being "A hideous, supercharged lawnmower fuelled by purest hate." This was right after it mowed through a 30 strong mob of Gaunts in a single round following the single best to hit rolling of my career.

Hold on, you say, what's this, enough attacks to fell 30 Gaunts in a round ? I know they're wussy but. that seems odd...

The Death Company Dreadnought has 2 Dreadnought Close Combat weapon arms. They can have the standard fists, S10 monsters that they are, and it gets to swing 5 attacks on the charge with them. However, it is the other option that makes it so feared, means it can chop through that many Gaunts and has earned it the name of "The Blendernaught"

You can swap the fists out for Lightning Claws (that give you handy rerolls to wound) and, as long as you have 2 arms, for every unsaved wound on the enemy you get another attack.

So, with the Gaunts, as an example...

Wolfie charges the Gaunts with his Death Company Dread, he gets 5 attacks, he kills 5 gaunts. He gets another 5 attacks, 5 more die. He gets another 5 attacks, he hits with 4, 4 more die. This goes on until you either miss with your last attack, your opponent makes all his invulnerable saves or the target is blended into fine paste.

This is not the only thing about the Death Company Dread, it has Furious Charge as well, meaning S7 I 5 rerolling to wound fun, and it has Fleet, making it incredibly hard to keep away from as it can assault after running. The icing on the cake is that it is immune to stunned and shaken rolls on the damage table as well.

It also has Rage, requiring the same precautions as its foot based compatriots above.

If anything, the Death Company Dread will attract even more fire than the foot version. No one wants to be blenderised so its death will be top priority. Transport, once again, needs to be considered. You have two options for getting it there.

A Drop pod. Ok, it's there in the opponent's DZ. Now what ? Well, it twiddles its thumbs for a turn while every single AT gun the enemy own is trained on it. Oh, and it's also in Melta range. Great. Popping smoke may mean you survive the incoming wall of shot, but honestly, it's nowhere near reliable enough.

That leaves us with the Stormraven, which among its talents, can carry a Dread and the Dread can assault from it while the gunship blows things up. Partnering Mephiston with a Stormraven and a Death Company Dread is just unpleasant. With good enough Fleet rolls (since both Mephy and the Dread have it) 2 of the nastiest close combat units in the book can be anywhere on the board inside of Turn 2, smashing that Basilisk that's right in the back corner, for example.

[ZeltArruin]

...I didn't say that they no longer existed, only that they weren't considered important enough to get mentioned in the codex. And I only said that in an attempt to end a conversation about fluff that I am really not at all interested in. Seriously, if it doesn't involve a force org. chart, wargear selection, and point values, I don't give a damn.

No one here is obligated to help me, I'm not that entitled. But responding to my posts that say I'm not really interested in fluff (beyond the basics, I mean; I wouldn't enjoy it if there weren't some aesthetic appeal and pandering to my inner teenager-with-power-fantasies) and am just starting this game because I wanted another game to play at my LGS and thought robot zombies would be cool with, "You're wrong about [insert minor piece of fluff here]" is missing the point by a pretty large margin.

Regret then? I hope is not too late for an apology? I did not mean to agitate you, yet I fear that was what was interpreted.

[Cheesegear]

Blood Angels troops section. I've really gone to town on this one as well, again, let me know if there's anything I've missed.

Will do...

Tactical Squad
[...] Armed with a boltgun for S4 rapid fire 24 inch goodness
[...] Each marine is WS4, BS 4, T4 with a 3+ save.
[...] due to the glories of the "And they shall know no fear" rule, immune to being sweeping advanced if you lose combat and they run.

Just a minor nitpick. I don't like repeating what's plainly written in the Codex. It's kind of redundant and may or may not fall under copyright, depending on how many numbers you throw around.

Configurations

Plasmagun + [Heavy Weapon]. Doesn't really matter. You went from being vague to being highly specific. Due to it's utility, a Plasmagun works well with any weapon. I think, for Blood Angels, that because Assault Marines exist with ability to take one or more special weapons, taking a Tactical Squad without a Plasmagun is doing it wrong. Because, later on, you are totally correct in saying that Assault Marines don't want to be carrying Plasma.

Heavy Bolter, Multi-Melta, Missile Launcher. They're free. Always take these options. If you have points left over at the end of writing your list, upgrade Heavy Bolters to Plasma Cannons, and Missile Launchers to Lascannons.

I don't like Multi-Meltas in Tactical Squads, because the Codex Marine option of Meltagun+Multi-Melta in Rhino (2 Fire Points), is made redundant by dual Meltas in Assault Squads with a cheap Rhino, and He'Stan isn't an option for BAs which makes it even less attractive.

That's my thoughts on BA Tactical Marines. But, yeah. If you want something Scoring on your backline, Scouts are better. Because they're cheaper. Codex Marines take Tactical Squads because their Predators are 125 Points or so. Blood Angels take Scouts because Stormravens are 200 points. You need to save points where you can.

And for everything else, there's Assault Marines. Except Plasma.

Close combat scouts - Attach a priest to make them into mini Khorne berserkers. The Author is not fond of these, but is undoubtedly doing something wrong.

I just think they're pointless. Shotguns are just better. And if you want 'Combat Scouts' for some reason, you've got Assault Marines which are better.

Assault Marines
This forms the core of the "Descent of Angels" list as they only scatter by 1D6 and you can reroll the reserve dice for anything arriving by jumppack.

You don't always have to DoA. As long as your opponent isn't spamming Plaserbacks, you've still got your 3+ save. If your Librarian(s) is doing his job (cover save for everything) and you've got Priest Saturation down properly, you can hit your opponent with 30+ Jumpers on Turn 2. They wont be pleased. Then you have your Vanguard drop in as well.

One of the main falling points of a Jumpers List is people think they have to Deep Strike.

Equipping Sarge with a powerfist and stormshield is an expensive

I'm really confused. Your Sergeant isn't an IC and so isn't targeted by anything. Why does he cost 65 points? Unless your meta-game is lousy with Mind War-ing Farseers?

, but useful upgrade as it lends the ability to threaten tanks, monstrous creatures, walkers and T4 multiwound characters alike while having the invulnerable save to survive long enough to use it.

Another favourite is power weapon and meltabombs

I like Lightning Claw and Meltabombs. But it would depend on how many MCs and T5+ (Bikes, Plague Marines, etc.) is in your meta-game. Like Wraith said in his Eldar Guide, if you can't smash them with a boatload of S4 attacks, you may not be doing it correctly. Still, worth a mention because the LC is the same cost as the PW.

Death Company
Boltguns vs Bolt pistol and CCW

Relentless is the clincher. Always be Rapid Firing. The other thing is that they can actually do something as they move up the board. Wheras Pistols wont be doing anything for two turns. A Chaplain can change things dramatically, as you pointed out. But, I prefer to be able to do two things pretty well rather than overkill in one area.

[CN the Logos]

Regret then? I hope is not too late for an apology? I did not mean to agitate you, yet I fear that was what was interpreted.

It's alright. I'm a little twitchy at the moment for a number of reasons, very few of which has to do with the forum. For my part, I didn't mean to imply that enjoying the fluff was a bad thing, only that it isn't my focus with this game. Robots = cool, zombies = cool, selling your soul to Satan and then punching him in the face = cool, therefore robot-zombies who sold their souls to Satan C'tan and then punched him in the face LAZERED them into shards = really cool. That's as much depth as I need for that concept, any more depth and the writers start having to justify things and write angsty backstories that I don't care about.

Ontopic: Just so I'm clear, C'tan Shards are not unique and I can take more than one if I feel like spending the points and giving up a slot that could be used on a Triarch Stalker (which I don't want to convert yet, because if the Stalker ends up costing $30 and I convert a Ghost Ark into one, I'll have paid $20 for the privilege of playing with the thing a few months early). Correct?

Triarch Stalkers, for that matter, seem pretty fragile. With only one actual weapon, it looks like there's a distinct possibility of them being forced to walk forwards and hit things with their robo-mandibles after taking a single hit. Is the intended strategy with them just to get a good shot one or two times, benefit from Twin-Linked against the target(s) for the rest of that Shooting Phase, and then anything past that is a bonus? Or is there something I'm missing?

[Timberwolf]

Thanks for the input as always, I'll tidy things up a bit in light of it.

Relentless is the clincher. Always be Rapid Firing. The other thing is that they can actually do something as they move up the board. Wheras Pistols wont be doing anything for two turns. A Chaplain can change things dramatically, as you pointed out. But, I prefer to be able to do two things pretty well rather than overkill in one area.

I guess this is a prime example of what I meant when I said this is why Death Company is divisive. It's also, probably, indicative of a fundamental difference in our personal styles. I like my Assault units to be best at what they are meant to do, given that I have other things to handle the shooting and the sacrifice of the extra attacks compromises my ability to run up to some Hammernators and swing enough attacks to thin them some before they can hit back or plain steamroller any Terminators that don't have a 3+ invulnerable. I just have this vision of them advancing across the board being shot up, their boltgun shots spanging helplessly off anything with better armour than a Landspeeder while they chase it around. Even with Jump packs, they're still going to get shot to hell and possibly end up in completely the wrong place if your opponent gets it right.

This is why I have honestly suggested using the points for the jump packs on a transport. You probably won't get to use the rapid fire at all but being in the right place with a whole squad is, to me, worth the loss of that. Since you are getting out of the transport at close quarters then it makes sense to be as good as you can be, which sends me towards 2 CCW's, which hit harder and can bypass Terminator, Power and Carapace armour with the right upgrades. On a Powerfist marine though, a bolter is absolutely no penalty at all thanks to relentless and never getting extra attacks for 2 CCW's so it'd be rude not to.

[Wraith]

Ladies and gentlemen, I give you: The definition of "Too Much Free Time"!

Fast

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Swooping Hawks
Unfortunately, there just isn't any way around it; Swooping Hawks are a poor unit. Their stats are average (for an Eldar – s3 and T3 again), their guns are terrible and their armour is, at best, mediocre. Sadly, 4th and 5th Edition removed what little teeth these guys ever once had.

• Exarch: The only reason you'd take this guy, is so that you could also take the Intercept ability and couple it with the squad's innate Haywire Grenades – and even then you ALWAYS have better ways to kill tanks than glancing them to pieces. Otherwise, his improved stats are in all the wrong places and even his weapon upgrades are pretty woeful.
• Hawk's Talon: s5 and Assault 3 is an improvement over his normal s3 Assault 2 gun, but only just. Still having AP5 means that in the vast majority of cases, he still isn't hurting anything that he couldn't already hurt.
• Power Weapon: Oh God, no. Even if you can Skyleap out of trouble, you don't want these guys anywhere near a melee, if you can possibly help it. Certainly don't spend more points just to watch them lose again.
• Sunrifle: If you really have to upgrade the Exarch's gun, go for this one. Assault 6 with BS5 makes up for quite a lot, but honestly? Just take more Hawks in the first place.
• Skyleap: A really interesting ability; during your movement phase, even if you're locked in Assault, you can elect to remove the entire Squad from the table and place them back into Reserves, so that next turn you can roll to Deep Strike the unit again. In doing so, you can drop a s4 AP5 Large Blast weapon with infinite range anywhere on the table, and it only scatters d6”. The problem is, it's STILL AP5 – you're not going to kill anything that couldn't already be killed by a Squad of Storm Guardians, and they at least can claim an objective if they have the chance. Is it worth taking several minimum sized squads of Swooping Hawks and having them Deep Strike every other turn in order to drop their Grenades? If they could also be made into a Scoring Unit, then this would be awesome if only because you would spend half the game completely immune to enemy fire. As it stands, not at all.
• Intercept: Always hit Vehicles on 4+ or better. The synergy with Haywire Grenades is obvious, and 'Jump Packs' are a good way to make sure you get some use out of them. Again, I'd argue against taking an Exarch in the first place, but if you took one then I'd recommend that you take either Skyleap or Intercept and pick your targets accordingly – not both.
• Swooping Hawks with Skyleap love Autarchs with Master Strategist. Specifically because the ability stacks if you have more than one Autarch, so you will always be Skyleaping into play on a 2+. I'd strongly question the sensibility of taking two Autarchs in one army, mind; a Farseer will be far more useful to your entire army, rather than slightly helpful to one unit.

Warp Spiders
I like Warp Spiders a lot more than I do Swooping Hawks. Though they share the same common weaknesses – poor stats and lousy AP on their weapons – Spiders make up for it by being better armoured and having twice the strength in their weapons. Even their short 12” range isn't such a burden, when your Warp Jump Generator lets you run away from all but the fleetest of opponents.

• Exarch: If you're feeling daring, you can get a surprising amount of mileage out of Deep Striking 10 Warp Spiders behind enemy lines, inundating the nearest unit with 20+ s6 shots and then using your guys as a delivery system for you A4, I6 Exarch. Let down as always by s3 (nothing that can't be cured by Doom, but remember you've probably Deep Struck over there because you can't reach the enemy with other weapons or powers!) but it's a deed that will always get a result of some sort.
• Power Blades: See above. Like Dire Avengers, you either have to be VERY aggressive with Warp Spiders or VERY protective of them to get the better results. If you are a fan of the former, these are a good investment.
• Spinneret Rifle: There are two trains of thought about Spinneret Rifles; one is that they are very useful, as having an AP1 weapon in a squad full of AP- means that you can suddenly make a decent attempt at breaking open an enemy Transport (especially since your mobility inevitably means that you can shoot at the rear). The second is that it's still only a single s6 shot, and all your other shots are mostly going to be wasted on a vehicle that is going to be glanced a lot but not destroyed if you miss or fail to penetrate. Personally I'd go for the Additional Death Spinner in order to stick to shooting Infantry, and if I had to I could still glance a Rhino into submission anyway.
• Additional Death Spinner: Assault 2 becomes 4? That's pretty cool. Although I don't want to wear out a good catchphrase; More Is, again, More. There's not a lot of reason to go without this upgrade, especially if you're trying to squeeze in a few more shots and can't afford a full body.
• Surprise Assault: An ability with literally no use to anyone, whatsoever, since the 5th Edition BBB states that all Jump Infantry can Deep Strike for free anyway.
• Withdraw: The same as with Dire Avengers and Harlequins; if there's anything left for you to need to run away from, you have made a mistake. Although it does have a use in protecting a large (and thus, expensive) unit during your opponent's turn – if your unit is Assaulted, 3+ armour often gets you through the worst of it, and it's better to flee while wounded rather than be stuck around waiting to die later.
• Hyper-aggressive Warp Spiders like having an Autarch around for easier Deep Striking and another half-dozen Power Weapon attacks. He's also available to do the same trick as for Striking Scorpions – arrive with a bodyguard, and then in the next turn separate in order to Fusion Gun a vehicle so that the Spiders can get shots at the juicy innards. From the Farseer, Spiders generally like Guide more than Doom, but you should be used to the fact by now that everyone in the Eldar army likes both is they can get it. Remember though – your Farseer shouldn't be getting as close to the enemy as the Warp Spiders do, so there's never an excuse for having him join the squad, thus holding them back and putting himself in mortal danger.

Shining Spears
A bona-fide rarity in Eldar; T4 and a 3+ save. Congratulations boys – you are 'average'! Seriously though, Shining Spears are an exceptionally dangerous unit, and both practically and thematically are my favourite of the Fast choices. Too bad they cost so much, mind; you won't see many of them in your lifetime, let alone in a single battle.

• Exarch: Yep. Again, a close combat upgrade for a close combat squad. Always worthwhile for the extra attack, especially in such relatively small units.
• Shuriken Cannon: I think not. You can't risk being caught in the open when you only have 5 models, and like Fire Dragons with a Fire Pike you should be either up close and doing lots of damage, or instead completely out of LoS; Are you really going to risk your entire squad for the sake of 3 rather mundane shots?
• Power Weapon: Useful only if you expect to get charged a lot (Laser Lances are only Power weapons if *you* make the Assault), but between careful planning and Withdraw you shouldn't ever be Assaulted for long.
• Star Lance: A good upgrade in every respect. 'Magic' s8 for killing a large variety of characters also makes Lance all the more worthwhile when you're stuck behind slow moving traffic, like Dreadnoughts. Trim it from your list only if you're desperate for points.
• Skilled Rider: Just as it says in the BBB. Worthwhile, since you want to be behind cover most of the time, and you can't afford to lose even 1 guy before he gets to land his attacks to a fluky dice roll. Quite an easy decision to go without it, on the other hand, if you need to save points and you have your Lucky Dice with you.
• Withdraw: Yes. Always. Never, ever leave home without it. Shining Spears MUST Assault rather than be Assaulted, and they must avoid protracted fights at all costs. 25pts might sound expensive, but compared to what it can save you, it's a bargain.
• A cheap Farseer with Fortune and a Jetbike can be a nice helping hand for Shining Spears, although it's already a high value-high risk unit so be extra sure you want to make it even more costly. If you go down this route, you needn't worry about Doom or Guide – s6 takes care of a lot of problems, and you shouldn't make him yet more expensive. An Autarch on a Jetbike fills a role similar to an Exarch without the Withdraw power; lots more powerful attacks, but doesn't do anything to keep the unit alive apart from contribute one more T3 body. This is not 'great' on his own, but it is usually very, very amusing when you have both an Autarch and an Exarch working together.

Vyper Squadron
You say “Vyper”, I say “Glass cannons”. For all intents an purposes, Vypers are highly mobile weapons-platforms; their sole goal in life is to move quickly to an awkward angle from which to shoot at the enemy before someone sneezes at them and they explode into flames. In small games, taking one or to can be a (reasonably) cheap way of dealing with enemy Mech, but in larger games they tend just to be victims. When they work, they're good. When they don't work..... it must be Tuesday.

• Heavy Weapon: Same old, same old. Decide beforehand what the unit is going to be shooting at, and then take Missile Launchers anyway.
• Shuriken Cannon: I'd rather not. The aim of the unit is to move quickly and fire it's Heavy weapon a lot. Paying for a second Heavy Weapon that you're not going to use most of the time is extortionate.
• Vectored Engines: If you're in a smaller game and are only taking a few Vypers, this can be very helpful to ensure that the important part of the model – the Heavy Weapon – stays in play for as long as possible. Having said that, you're Open-Topped so your opponent is virtually never going to get a mere Glancing Hit. Effectively this becomes a 20pt upgrade to protect you from just 1 of the 6 results of being shot at – not great value.
• Star Engines: Nope. Vypers are there to fire their Heavy Weapon as often as they can until they inevitably fall over; if you can't already get out of the way with a 12” move, doing anything in lieu of shooting is almost always a bad idea too.
• Holo-Fields: In an ideal world, every Eldar vehicle would take these and Spirit Stones together. Realistically, you could instead just pay for another Wave Serpent from somewhere and be better served in almost every way.
• Spirit Stones: You're AV10 and Open-Topped, and so can be penetrated by mere Boltguns. While yet more expense, 'Stones can either be really useful for keeping your Vehicle alive or they can be useless because they still can't fire that all-important Heavy Weapon. My expert advice is to really, really like ramming other tanks with your Fast skimmer, when this happens!

Fast Diagnosis
Honestly? None of them are great. You would need a seriously good reason to ever need Swooping Hawks, even compared to all the others. Having said that, I like Shining Spears a lot as they have potential to inflict huge amounts of damage, provided that they are properly micro-managed.

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War Walkers Squadron
Generally speaking, War Walkers are better Vypers than Vypers. They have a similar role – to appear quickly and unload lots of Heavy Weapons into the back or side of something that really didn't want that to happen – But War Walkers are a) a lot cheaper and b) have better ways to avoid damage other than “hope your opponent misses a lot”, in that they are not Open-Topped and that they can Scout, which essentially means “they can't be shot at in your first turn”. Having said that, like Vypers in larger games, a single War Walker is an easy target; take a full unit, or none at all.

• Heavy Weapons: Note that War Walkers take two Heavy Weapons; this is not the same as having one that is Twin-Linked. As always, Missile Launchers are fun, but War Walkers take Scatter Lasers somewhere new and terrifying with 8 s6 shots per turn.
• Spirit Stones: Much cheaper here than anywhere else in the Codex, it's a worthwhile investment. War Walkers, if unable to fire, can at least hide out of the way or even make an Assault with two s5 attacks, so if you're desperate then they can still achieve something. Not ideal, but better than the alternative.

Dark Reapers
Dark Reapers are awesome, a strong contender for the coveted place of “Best” Heavy choice in a slot that already boasts several of the Eldar's finest units. Hide them in some fortified ruins and watch them eat up just about any Infantry that your opponent can throw at them. Just.... don't look at the price tag. Just take them, and try not to think about it too much.

• Exarch: Don't take him for his stats, take him for his upgrades. They're worth it.
• Shuriken Cannon: One more shot than a Reaper Launcher, but less reliable against the vast majority of targets. And to be honest, the alternatives are so much better that it's generally not even worth considering.
• Eldar Missile Launcher: The obvious thing to do is to pair this with Fast Shot. The problem is, the Tempest Launcher (also with Fast Shot) is better at taking out large groups of infantry, whereas aiming at vehicles wastes the power of the rest of your squad. It's the default 'toolbox' choice for unexpected opponents, but if you already have a dedicated anti-Tank unit like Fire Dragons, instead go with.....
• Tempest Launcher: Space Marines hate this weapon, which is reason enough to take it and laugh maniacally while doing so. Using Fast Shot to make it Heavy 3 should be mandatory.
• Fast Shot: In fact, let's do just that. Fast Shot is Mandatory, when you have any of the upgraded weapons, and if you don't have any upgraded weapons, then you simply don't need an Exarch either.
• Crack Shot: Especially useful with the Tempest Launcher or with Plasma Missiles, as it means that your Farseer can use his Doom elsewhere this turn and that all but the most heavily armoured of opponents probably won't get a save at all. If you have to choose one or the other, however, I would personally prefer Fast Shot.

Wraithlord
We all know who this guy is – for nearly 10 years, the Wraithlord was considered one of the toughest and most unexplained-ly strongest creatures in the game, right up until the advent of Imperial Guard's massed Lascannons and Dark Eldar's legion of strength X weapons. Let me repeat that: It took two whole Codices spread over two whole Editions to bring the raw, untamed power of the Wraithlord into line. They have been well and truly leashed nowadays, but that still doesn't stop them from the occasional rampage under the right circumstances.

• Shuriken Catapults vs. Flamers: As a Monstrous Creature, a Wraithlord will generally find itself in Close Combat sooner or later, and so you're getting two free (non-twin-linked) weapons to soften up any potential tarpits that are there to slow him down. Under those circumstances, I always opt for Flamers. At the sort of range that either weapon will get used, they will hit more enemies and will ignore cover saves to boot, something which Eldar seem to have trouble with.
• Wraithblade: Probably my favourite upgrade. Wraithlord have only 2 attacks and WS4, so 50% of the time your s10 monster is swinging at air. It's so cheap that you could happily field a Wraithlord armed with just a 'Blade and nothing else; In smaller games (750 or less) this will horrify just about any opponent who has not specifically prepared to deal with it.
• Heavy Weapon: You're Monstrous and you are cheap by most races' standards even after you have paid for a big gun (Wraithlord+Starcannon is the same cost as a Vanilla Space Marine Dreadnought with no upgrades or weapons, FYI). A Scatter Laser improves on what you're trying to do with your Flamers, as does a Missile Launcher, but I rarely expect to need something as 'powerful' as a Bright Lance when it's even more reliable just to punch the tank to death.
• Twin Linked Heavy Weapon: This, on the other hand, does start to make your Wraithlord lean towards the expensive side for relatively little gain. Rerolling a To Hit die with BS4 isn't entirely necessary, and it makes Close Combat – the stage upon which a Wraithlord can shine – more tedious than it needs to be since you have forgone a Wraithblade. If you want something on legs with big guns, then for the same price you can just about squeeze in two War Walkers, who will have twice as many shots, and I think that's a much better choice.
• Although a Monstrous Creature can't be joined by an Independent Character, pay special attention to Wraithsight. There's a 1 in 6 chance every turn that you effectively lose your Wraithlord, and Murphy's First and Second Laws are the only reliable statistics in 40k. Keep him close to a Warlock who is in a squad of his own – it'll stop your Wraithlord from even risking failure, and it'll provide him with a handy Cover Save too. After all, even T8 3+ will only protect you from so much.

Fire Prism Grav-Tank
In many ways similar to the Wave Serpent, except that it trades a carrying capacity for a really, REALLY big, multipurpose gun. It's also cheaper than it's near rival, the Falcon Grav Tank, and has a better BS. Honestly, between the two there are few reasons not to take the Fire Prism.

• Shuriken Cannon: If you need to move your Fire Prism, you'll then need to fire the Prism Cannon rather than anything else. I'm not a big fan of Shuriken Cannons in general, less so in comparison to a Prism Cannon. Better to keep the Shuriken Catapults and fire them as Defensive Weapons, if you ever need to fire them at all.
• Vectored Engines: If you need to move above combat speed, you've done something horribly wrong with your setup. Or your enemy has somehow managed to get the drop on you in ways that simply running away probably won't help either.
• Star Engines: I will reiterate; if your main purpose is to carry a really, really big gun, you should be using it every turn. Fire Prisms don't even have the excuse that Falcons and Wave Serpents do of needing to Transport another unit, so you shouldn't need to go anywhere in that much of a hurry.
• Holo-Fields: Take these, and you'll be almost the same price as a Falcon that hasn't taken them. I hope that it should be obvious by now which is the better choice.
• Spirit Stones: As always; your main goal is to shoot your Heavy weapon, and if your opponent rolls a 1 or a 2 for damage then Spirit Stones still aren't going to let you fire regardless. Don't bother.
• A quick note on Prism Cannons: Multiple cannons can contribute to each others' power, which is really cool. Although the Contributor sacrifices their chance to fire their own gun, they give the Recipient +1 Strength and +1AP for their shot, up to a maximum of (s10 AP1 Heavy 1 – requires 1 contributor), or (s7 AP2 Heavy 1, Large Blast – requires 2 contributors) The first is useful for making holes in big tanks, the second eats entire squads of Terminators. For this reason, I'd always advise taking at least 2 Fire Prisms, if you're going to take any. They're really good on their own, and together they're excellent.

Falcon Grav-Tank
I'll say this right away: I am not a fan of the Falcon. It is, for nearly all purposes, an expensive Wave Serpent with less carrying capacity, and one big + one extra-big gun rather than a twin-linked turret. It can be used in the same way as either a Wave Serpent or as a Fire Prism (that is, mobile heavy support) but, strictly speaking, is the bastard middle-child between the two. The best role for a Falcon is if you need to carry a small squad, like Fire Dragons, to their destination and then don't expect to pick them up again. Which you can also do, slightly cheaper, with a Wave Serpent anyway.

• Heavy Weapon: The Pulse Laser (s8 AP2 Heavy2) is tempting, but against tough vehicles it's not as effective as a simple Bright Lance, and like the Starcannon it doesn't have enough shots to make a mess of mid-to-large Infantry units. Pulse Laser + Bright Lance or Scatter Laser (or Starcannon, if you want to really go overboard) will fix those problems, respectively, but remember it's crewed by BS3 Guardians and as such you're spending a lot of points on a bunch of 50-50 rolls. Did I already mention that Fire Prisms are BS4 and cheaper?
• Shuriken Cannon: Might be worthwhile if you go down the route of using the Falcon as an extra-big Heavy Weapon Platform and you have a lot of Infantry to fight (if you take another Shuriken Cannon for the turret, like War Walkers you have two guns rather than one twin-linked one), but all in all I'm not in favour of such a big, expensive target sitting still for long enough to fire all 3 weapons. Instead, move somewhere safe, fire your turret, and repeat.
• Vectored Engines: Since you're festooned with Heavy Weapons, being immobilised isn't all that bad for a Falcon, and AV12 is better than the average Eldar. Still, I'd rather spend points on Holo-Fields to make sure that the tank isn't damaged, rather than let it get damaged and try to limit the repercussions after the fact.
• Star Engines: They fit with the previously described tactic – drop off a unit of Fire Dragons or perhaps a Warlock Bodyguard deep in enemy lines, and then go hunting for better targets – but after paying a lot for your big guns you are effectively paying more to be unable to use them. Unless you really, REALLY like ramming enemy vehicles (and why wouldn't you, with a 24”/s8 move, +1 for Tank and +2 for Front AV? Strength 11 attacks are totally legal, right?) I'd go without.
• Holo-Fields: Expensive, but it keeps your tank alive longer than anything else it can take. If, for some reason, you've paid for a Falcon instead of a cheaper Fire Prism as you prime source of high-strength attacks, you might as well go all the way and keep it safe for a little while.
• Spirit Stones: Same as for the Fire Prism. Avoid.

Support Platform
Support Platforms are an odd bunch. They're among the most outlandish of weapons in the Eldar arsenal, which gives them the advantage of surprise since there's nothing quite like them elsewhere in the game. Otherwise though, they're AV10 and crewed with Guardians so you need to keep them safe, and their effects are also specific to certain targets. Generally, you can get better results from a mob of War Walkers or a couple of Fire Prisms, but if you want to take Platforms then always take the maximum number per slot, so as to deal out the most damage and – more importantly – you give you more Guardians that you can afford to lose before they stop working.

• D-Cannon: D-Cannons take everything that's wrong with a Wraithcannon and fixes it – twice the range, and a Blast template to boot. Although 24” range still isn't fantastic, it's good enough to reach any immediate threats and to have a thin line of Guardians (or, preferably, a close combat specialist) between you and them. The only thing I dislike about D-Cannons is that I can't equip one to my Wraithlord or Wave Serpent..... OR CAN'T I!?
• Vibrocannon: Vibrocannon are.... weird. They are, however, probably the weakest of the three varieties, since they're AP- and can only ever inflict glancing hits on vehicles (or nothing at all on Skimmers). It's one thing for it to be statistically unlikely that a weapon can't harm something, it's another entirely that it physically CANNOT do so.
• Night-Spinner: S6 is fine, AP- is bad, being only a Blast (rather than Large Blast) is upsetting. There aren't all that many wonderful benefits to 48” range on the average 4'x6' table, and whatever you're aiming at D-Cannons will kill it more efficiently.
• Warlock: Weapons Platforms all fire indirectly, and so should always be nestled deep in cover. This means that you usually have no need for Conceal, and quite frankly there's no use for any of the other powers. He is, in most events, an ablative wound with a 4++ save that would otherwise mean a dead crewman for the main weapons.You might take a Warlock and upgrade him to Spiritseer if you have a couple of Wraithlord lurking on your back line, but honestly if you;re going down that route, you might as well forgo the charade and take a third Wraithlord. It's unimaginative, but it works.

Heavy Diagnosis: Two Fire Prisms and a squad of Dark Reapers will kill just about anything the game can throw at you, and it's not even the most expensive combination available to you. Then again, the thought of 9 War Walkers churning out 72 Scatter Laser shot per turn is..... amusing. And very nearly the same price.

On the home stretch now - just Special Characters left to go.

[bluntpencil]

Okay, thinking of trying to build a Space Wolf Army in the future. I like the idea of basing it off the fluff whilst still being competitive, so Gunnar Red Moon's Great Company seems a good choice. He likes surrounding himself with Long Fangs, so I figure the maximum allowed is the way to go, combined with a Venerable Dreadnought as an anchor.

For objective-holding, his Grey Hunters will lead the way.

The Wolf Guard and the Wolf Lord will each lead a pack of Grey Hunters. Each Pack will be slightly different, by virtue of having a Wolf Guard equipped differently, so that no pack is the same as another, as this is a bit boring looks-wise. The Wolf Lord will probably ride in the Heavy Bolter Razorback, so the enemy don't know which to shoot first; take out the Plaserbacks, or slow down the hard as nails Wolf Lord?

They look capable of taking on all-comers, although might not fare so well against jump packers and deep strikers. Space Marines will get shot to bits, though, and hordes will get torn apart too, I think, with the plethora of templates on offer.

Going for:

The total is 1,499.

HQ

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Gunnar Red Moon: 195 points.

Wolf Lord: 100
Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer: 60
Saga of the Bear: 35

Elites

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Wolf Guard: 109

3 Wolf Guard: 54
Power Sword: 10
Power Fist and bolter: 20
1 Thunder Hammer and bolter: 25

Venerable Dreadnought: 195

Venerable Dreadnought: 175
Plasma Cannon: 10
Twin-linked autocannon: 10

Troops

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Grey Hunters: 155

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters: 155

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters: 155

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters: 115

5 Grey Hunters: 75
Flamer: 0
Razorback: 40

Heavy Support

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Long Fangs: 140

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
5 Missile Launchers: 50

Long Fangs: 130

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
3 Missile Launchers: 30
2 Heavy Bolters: 10

Long Fangs: 150

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
4 Missile Launchers: 40
1 Plasma Cannon: 20

[BoSheck]

Okay, thinking of trying to build a Space Wolf Army in the future. I like the idea of basing it off the fluff whilst still being competitive, so Gunnar Red Moon's Great Company seems a good choice. He likes surrounding himself with Long Fangs, so I figure the maximum allowed is the way to go, combined with a Venerable Dreadnought as an anchor.

Top notch translating the fluff to a mean looking tabletop army!

Just a nitpick: The Dread feels out of place compared to the ruthless effeciency of everything else in the army--I sort of balk at the point cost. You could definitely afford a few more razorbacks for that price (Long Fangs, for instance, don't mind having a ride once every 3 games or so) or a couple of speeders. You'll be fine as-is, of course, but I felt I should say something.

[bluntpencil]

Top notch translating the fluff to a mean looking tabletop army!

Just a nitpick: The Dread feels out of place compared to the ruthless effeciency of everything else in the army--I sort of balk at the point cost. You could definately afford a few more razorbacks for that price (Long Fangs, for instance, don't mind having a ride once every 3 games or so) or a couple of speeders. You'll be fine as-is, of course, but I felt I should say something.

Yeah, good point. I could get squeeze in 3 more Razorbacks there, but I wanted some variety. A couple more Plaserbacks could really unleash the hurt, and, fluff-wise, the Long Fangs wouldn't have to walk everywhere.

Still, a Dread hanging out with the grumpy old guys would be cool. I also think it might distract the opponent, and give him something that isn't an important Dedicated Transport to shoot at.

Maybe a regular Dread with template weapons, and an extra Plaserback?

Regular Dread this time, with some upgrades to the Grey Hunters and Wolf Guard... hopefully the enemy will be confused as to which vehicles to shoot.

The Power Fist goes in one Grey Hunter Squad so that power weapon attacks from enemies will either have to hit the Wolf Lord or the squad, so that to prevent power fist attacks in retaliation, the enemy will need to do at least 8 wounds. Saga of the Bear prevents instakills, and in the Codex, Red Moon is described as 'bear like'. Win!

The squad with Flamer and Wulfen is for horde control.

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Gunnar Red Moon: 195 points.

Wolf Lord: 100
Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer: 60
Saga of the Bear: 35

Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 1

Elites

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Wolf Guard: 119

3 Wolf Guard: 54
Thunder Hammer: 25 (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 2)
Power Fist and combi-melta: 25 (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 3)
Power Sword and combi-flamer: 15 (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 4)

Dreadnought: 125

Dreadnought: 105
Plasma Cannon: 10
Twin-linked missile launcher: 10

Troops

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Grey Hunters Squad 1: 190

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Power Fist 25
Wolf Standard 10
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters Squad 2: 155

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters Squad 3: 155

5 Grey Hunters 75
Meltagun 5
Plaserback 75

Grey Hunters Squad 4: 140

5 Grey Hunters: 75
Flamer: 0
Mark of the Wulfen: 15
Wolf Standard: 10
Razorback: 40

Heavy Support

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Long Fangs: 140

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
5 Missile Launchers: 50

Long Fangs: 130

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
3 Missile Launchers: 30
2 Heavy Bolters: 10

Long Fangs: 150

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs: 90
4 Missile Launchers: 40
1 Plasma Cannon: 20

[lord_khaine]

Heavy Diagnosis: Two Fire Prisms and a squad of Dark Reapers will kill just about anything the game can throw at you, and it's not even the most expensive combination available to you. Then again, the thought of 9 War Walkers churning out 72 Scatter Laser shot per turn is..... amusing. And very nearly the same price.

Yet another excelent analysis Wraith, though there are 2-3 points i would discuss.

Firstly regarding Dark reaper Exarches, then i really think Crack shot is far superior when you have a tempest launcher, just the ability to ignore cover saves alone will give you more kills against a target in cover for ½ the price of fast shot, and thats before figuring in the bonus of rerolling to wound.

As for Wraith Lords, then it looked like you didnt comment on the option of having 2 heavy weapons?

Lastly regarding Fire prisms, at what AV would you say it would be worth more to fire 1 focused shot, instead of 2 seperate shot with the 2 fireprisms you recomend having?

[Wraith]

Firstly regarding Dark reaper Exarches, then i really think Crack shot is far superior when you have a tempest launcher, just the ability to ignore cover saves alone will give you more kills against a target in cover for ½ the price of fast shot, and thats before figuring in the bonus of rerolling to wound.

A reasonable point. On reflection, you're probably right - Tempest Launchers are there to kill Infantry, afterall, and those are the guys who will be relying on a cover save to survive.
I think I was working on the premise that Tempest Launchers already ignore MEQ armour, and it's generally quite hard to get a 3+ Cover Save - you're already ahead of the game even before you're forcing your opponent to cling to Cover, a tactic that I consider unfamiliar to many MEQ armies and one that a canny Eldar player can take advantage of.

I stand by Fast Shot being more fun with a Missile Launcher, though. It's harder to get a Cover Save on a tank than it is for Infantry, so you generally don't have to worry about it so much.

As for Wraith Lords, then it looked like you didnt comment on the option of having 2 heavy weapons?

It's there, above the point above Wraithsight.

Bottom line, for reiteration: Two Heavy Weapons makes Wraithlord too expensive for my tastes, and if you want lots of shooting then point-for-point War Walkers give you more.

Lastly regarding Fire prisms, at what AV would you say it would be worth more to fire 1 focused shot, instead of 2 seperate shot with the 2 fireprisms you recomend having?

There's an awful lot of math-hammer required to give you the answer to which would be 'best', and to be honest I am not inclined to put much faith in that sort of witchcraft....

Roughly speaking though, I'd say AV12+. I'd feel comforable shooting one Fire Prism at a Rhino or Drop Pod, and would prefer to combine when shooting at Ironclad Dreadnoughts and Land Raiders. Taking into account, of course, what target is the highest priority - the empty Land Raider Redeemer that just came onto the far table edge from Reserves, wouldn't worry me as much as the Rhino full of Sternguard that was fast approaching from nearby.

[Sila Prirode]

Lastly regarding Fire prisms, at what AV would you say it would be worth more to fire 1 focused shot, instead of 2 seperate shot with the 2 fireprisms you recomend having?

I'm not qualified enough to answer previous points, but our resident Eldar player has said about combining Focused shots that AP matters more then S. So if you need that +1 on dmg roll go for combining, if you want to inflict a glancing/penetrating shot so you can at least disable it go for two shots. Same goes for Dispersed.

[Squark]

Some thoughts on your proposed list, Bluntpencil. Also, just a tip on list writing: Don't write the costs of each piece of wargear down. Seriously. GW really hates this.

HQ

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Gunnar Red Moon: 195 points.

Wolf Lord
Storm Shield and Thunder Hammer
Saga of the Bear
Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 1

Thunder Hammer and I5 don't go well together in my mind. Also, you really shouldn't have a set-in-stone plan for which transport your HQ and Wolf Guard should ride in. This will likely change from game to game. Note on painting: Just so you know, Gunnar Red Moon doesn't have any transfer markings for his Great Company Mark, so you're going to have to hand paint it.

Elites

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Wolf Guard: 119

3 Wolf Guard
Thunder Hammer (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 2)
Power Fist and combi-melta (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 3)
Power Sword and combi-flamer (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 4)

Dreadnought: 125

Plasma Cannon
Twin-linked missile launcher

I'm not sure about the itemization on those wolf guard. Combi-weapons and power swords don't go too well together due to the lost attack, while power fists and thunder hammers go together with combi-weapons like Peanut Butter and Jelly. As far as the Dreadnaught goes... You really don't need it in it's current configuration. You already have missile launchers up the wazoo and a fair amount of plasma. This actually seems like a better place for an anti-horde measure; 2 Heavy Flamers and a Drop pod seems like a better choice here. Or, you could take those 125 points and put in 2 more plaserbacks, which seems to be the stronger option.

Troops

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Grey Hunters Squad 1: 190

5 Grey Hunters
Meltagun
Power Fist
Wolf Standard
Plaserback

Grey Hunters Squad 2: 155

5 Grey Hunters
Meltagun
Plaserback

Grey Hunters Squad 3: 155

5 Grey Hunters
Meltagun
Plaserback

Grey Hunters Squad 4: 140

5 Grey Hunters
Flamer
Mark of the Wulfen
Wolf Standard
Razorback

As it stands, the first squad kind of breaks your multiple targets rule because it is by far the most expensive, and the highest value target. To some extent that's going to happen to any squad Gunnar rides in, though. Any squad without him in it isn't going to get enough value from the Wolf Standard. Also, I'm of the opinion power fists on Grey Hunters are a waste. Without the sergeant or Wolf Guard's second base attack, you're just not getting enough bang for your buck. I'm also not sure the 4th squad is an effective anti-horde measure, either. What would make it scary is the threat of double flamers, but in order to do that, it needs to cross the board first. And, since Razorbacks are not assault vehicles, a guardsman blob or the like will probably shrug off the casualties and then give the squad the last laser light show they'll ever see. A heavy flamer dreadnaught would likely inflict more casualties for only 10 more points.

Heavy Support

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Long Fangs: 140

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
5 Missile Launchers

Long Fangs: 130

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
3 Missile Launchers
2 Heavy Bolters

Long Fangs: 150

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
4 Missile Launchers
1 Plasma Cannon

These guys could really use dedicated transports for dawn of war. Also, I'm not sure about the heavy bolters; As is, your army's sole plan for Heavy Tanks is, "Drive up real close and hope someone gets lucky with a lone meltagunner" unless you want to try and glance it to death (Which you do have the firepower for. But that's going to take a lot of those missile launchers there). I'd consider ditching the heavy bolters for lascannons. Also, this is more of a monetary concern than a tactical one: With the current configuration, you're going to need to dig up 9 more rocket launchers, since the devastators box only has one in it. And the Space Wolves Sprue has absolutely zero (Nor does it have any meltaguns or flamers. Or stuff you could use to convert into any of the aforementioned weapons ).

Overall, it's a pretty decent list, although I'm still learning Space Wolves myself.

[Cheesegear]

Wraith, truly excellent summaries. Since I don't actually play Eldar to any degree of feeling qualified to comment too harshly;

1. As a Marine player, Shining Spears terrify me. Although the 3-Bike box still exists, so I don't know where you got "Too bad they cost so much, mind; you won't see many of them in your lifetime, let alone in a single battle." I know a few people who have bought two boxes and cannibalised the sixth for Jetbike Farseer/Autarch parts.

A decent unit of Fire Dragons (7+) and Wave Serpent costs 250+ points. Requires at least two boxes of Fire Dragons (now Finecast for extra expense) and the 'Serpent to buy. A unit of 'Spears (5), barely scrapes 200 points, costs less in currency and gives you parts for an HQ. Or, if you're lazy, gives you an HQ. The Twin-Linked Shurikens give some anti-Infantry power, and if that doesn't work, you Assault.

I think pound-for-pound (even though I'm Australian and use pounds for neither weight or currency), Shining Spears can compete favourably with Fire Dragons. But, depends on your play-style and whether you want to play Mech or 'Bikes. ...Foot Eldar kind of doesn't work. Squads are just too expensive.

2. Vypers aren't terrible when you have lots of them. See; Land Speeders, Venoms, Deffkoptas, Piranhas or, in fact any Fast, Skimmer that costs ~50 points base.

Heavy Weapon: Same old, same old. Decide beforehand what the unit is going to be shooting at, and then take Missile Launchers anyway.

That had me laughing. 'Missilewings' are a recent meta shift. I think to deal with Razorspam, FnP and Paladins. Beats most things that isn't a Blood Angel/Necron AV13 wall, or a brick of Leman Russes.

Remember to go back and EDIT all your Parts into one post when you finish Special Characters so it can all be one link.


Squark Did you stop doing the Space Wolves?

[bluntpencil]

Some thoughts on your proposed list, Bluntpencil. Also, just a tip on list writing: Don't write the costs of each piece of wargear down. Seriously. GW really hates this.

HQ

Spoiler

Show

Thunder Hammer and I5 don't go well together in my mind. Also, you really shouldn't have a set-in-stone plan for which transport your HQ and Wolf Guard should ride in. This will likely change from game to game. Note on painting: Just so you know, Gunnar Red Moon doesn't have any transfer markings for his Great Company Mark, so you're going to have to hand paint it.

Elites

Spoiler

Show

I'm not sure about the itemization on those wolf guard. Combi-weapons and power swords don't go too well together due to the lost attack, while power fists and thunder hammers go together with combi-weapons like Peanut Butter and Jelly. As far as the Dreadnaught goes... You really don't need it in it's current configuration. You already have missile launchers up the wazoo and a fair amount of plasma. This actually seems like a better place for an anti-horde measure; 2 Heavy Flamers and a Drop pod seems like a better choice here. Or, you could take those 125 points and put in 2 more plaserbacks, which seems to be the stronger option.

Troops

Spoiler

Show

As it stands, the first squad kind of breaks your multiple targets rule because it is by far the most expensive, and the highest value target. To some extent that's going to happen to any squad Gunnar rides in, though. Any squad without him in it isn't going to get enough value from the Wolf Standard. Also, I'm of the opinion power fists on Grey Hunters are a waste. Without the sergeant or Wolf Guard's second base attack, you're just not getting enough bang for your buck. I'm also not sure the 4th squad is an effective anti-horde measure, either. What would make it scary is the threat of double flamers, but in order to do that, it needs to cross the board first. And, since Razorbacks are not assault vehicles, a guardsman blob or the like will probably shrug off the casualties and then give the squad the last laser light show they'll ever see. A heavy flamer dreadnaught would likely inflict more casualties for only 10 more points.

Heavy Support

Spoiler

Show

These guys could really use dedicated transports for dawn of war. Also, I'm not sure about the heavy bolters; As is, your army's sole plan for Heavy Tanks is, "Drive up real close and hope someone gets lucky with a lone meltagunner" unless you want to try and glance it to death (Which you do have the firepower for. But that's going to take a lot of those missile launchers there). I'd consider ditching the heavy bolters for lascannons. Also, this is more of a monetary concern than a tactical one: With the current configuration, you're going to need to dig up 9 more rocket launchers, since the devastators box only has one in it. And the Space Wolves Sprue has absolutely zero (Nor does it have any meltaguns or flamers. Or stuff you could use to convert into any of the aforementioned weapons ).

Overall, it's a pretty decent list, although I'm still learning Space Wolves myself.

Good thinking.

You know the strongest criticism you gave, which would put me off building this?

The lack of transfers. Painting the shoulders would be a complete pain. I'd probably get missile launchers through buying Tactical Squads instead of Space Wolf Packs, then using Wolf bits to convert them.

Thanks!

[Klose_the_Sith]

Maybe it's just me, but I prefer hand-painted insignias to transfers. Maybe it's just because I can imagine them being painted on by the lowest and least capable chapter serf after days on end without sleep and thus not conforming to any sort of uniform standard ... but hey, maybe I'm just crazy.

[Squark]

Good thinking.

You know the strongest criticism you gave, which would put me off building this?

The lack of transfers. Painting the shoulders would be a complete pain. I'd probably get missile launchers through buying Tactical Squads instead of Space Wolf Packs, then using Wolf bits to convert them.

Thanks!

The only real issue is where do you get the wolf bits- An army that size might take 2 boxes worth of heads and wolfy bits*, which is 20 Grey Hunters right there. Just some logistics to consider.

As far as transfers go, it's frustrating, I know. I was lucky enough that all of the Great Companies I was considering already had transfers, although Logan Grimnar's transfer was the wrong color until he got a new giant sheet.



*One trick I've found to make my other models look more appropriate is to take parts of the devastators box and incorporate them into my normal models. This way, there are left over wolf legs and chestpieces for the Devastators to use

[bluntpencil]

The only real issue is where do you get the wolf bits- An army that size might take 2 boxes worth of heads and wolfy bits*, which is 20 Grey Hunters right there. Just some logistics to consider.

As far as transfers go, it's frustrating, I know. I was lucky enough that all of the Great Companies I was considering already had transfers, although Logan Grimnar's transfer was the wrong color until he got a new giant sheet.



*One trick I've found to make my other models look more appropriate is to take parts of the devastators box and incorporate them into my normal models. This way, there are left over wolf legs and chestpieces for the Devastators to use

Right, I'll try out an Angels Encarmine Sanguinary Guard force instead... mostly because their SG are white with black wings, and look suitably badass.

Am I right in saying that Priests are a necessity, and a Librarian is awesome for providing cover saves whilst avoiding difficult terrain?

Dante will be used, renamed Castellan Zargo, of course.

Right, an attempt at a Sanguinary Guard force. I know Epistolaries generally aren't worth it, but I figure that if I cast Might of Heroes twice on the same turn, I can really buff up the guys with Power Fists to crazy levels.

The problem here is that the Librarian will be in blue armour, everyone else in white. Possibly could replace the Librarian with a Reclusiarch, and stick him in a squad with lots of power fists (since there is no point putting a Chaplain in a squad with MC weapons).

The Priests will join both Zargo (Dante) and the Librarian. Zargo will join the Chapter Banner squad, using his accurate deep striking to melta rear armour. The Librarian will join the 2 power fist squad, in order to use Might of Heroes on both Fists.

Spoiler

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Sanguinary Host (1500)
Dante 225

Librarian 175
Epistolary
Jump Pack
Shield of Sanguinius and Might of Heroes

Sanguinary Guard 1 - 260
chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols
Power fist

Sanguinary Guard 2 - 220
Infernus pistol
Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard 3 -220
Infernus Pistol
Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard 4- 220
2 Power Fists

2 Sanguinary Priests 180
2 Jump Packs
2 Power Swords

[Timberwolf]

Right, I'll try out an Angels Encarmine Sanguinary Guard force instead... mostly because their SG are white with black wings, and look suitably badass.

Am I right in saying that Priests are a necessity, and a Librarian is awesome for providing cover saves whilst avoiding difficult terrain?

Dante will be used, renamed Castellan Zargo, of course.

Priests are sufficiently handy to be... shall we say strongly advised ? And yes, a Librarian with Shield is useful for weathering the plasma that comes your way.

[bluntpencil]

Priests are sufficiently handy to be... shall we say strongly advised ? And yes, a Librarian with Shield is useful for weathering the plasma that comes your way.

I'm wondering if Might of Heroes can be cast twice in one round by an Epistolary, and if it's worth taking an Epistolary for this?

(I edited my post above with a list.)

If I take a regular Librarian, not an Epistolary, will likely go with Sanguine Sword, and spend the spare points on more melta, for the Chapter Master's squad to shoot tail with.

Another option would be removing the Librarian in favour of a Furioso Librarian with Shield and Wings. Sure, it's a bad idea to take only one vehicle, but anything that draws melta from the infantry whilst giving a nice cover save can't hurt, right?

It would also look different, saving me from having 22 jump infantry all looking the same, even if uniformity is cool in my book.

[Squark]

Squark Did you stop doing the Space Wolves?

Not... exactly... It would be more accurate to say I've hit a stumbling block, and unsure of how to proceed. For the Fast Attack slot, I'd need to do a fair bit of testing to examine how Swiftclaws vs. Skyclaws vs. Thunderwolves stand up against each other. And as far as Land speeders and basically the entire Heavy Support slot goes, I really don't know Marine Vehicles well at all. While my gut feeling tells me Predators seem less good compared to Predators, I don't even have any idea at all how to judge Vindicators or Whirlwinds. And unlike THunderwolves, I can't easily proxy those, as I don't have access to enough Rhino-chassis at College (If nesacary, Thunderwolves can be proxied with Huge Creatures from my old D&D minis, since the base and height are roughly the same).

[Wraith]

Thank you for your comments, Cheesegear. I'll see if I can address them and justfify my overisights

1. As a Marine player, Shining Spears terrify me. Although the 3-Bike box still exists, so I don't know where you got "Too bad they cost so much, mind; you won't see many of them in your lifetime, let alone in a single battle." I know a few people who have bought two boxes and cannibalised the sixth for Jetbike Farseer/Autarch parts.

I clearly haven't done my maths properly - Shining Spears certainly were very, very expensive to buy, the last time I looked. Perhaps I have tricked myself into falling for the illusion that Shining Spears are one expensive squad, and Fire Dragons + Wave Serpent are two cheaper ones so on average it's a 'better' choice (even though you'd be silly to take one without the other).

Having said that, you can just about get away with a smaller unit of Fire Dragons and no upgrades if you need to, whereas Shining Spears pretty much need to be squads of 5, and also taking Exarch Powers has a high priority. As you said - context, opponent and tactics all apply.

I won't deny that that 'Spears can be the more dangerous choice, though. And, I'm genuinely glad to know that you have seen more than one person using them, because that's all I ever have even when visiting GW's home, Warhammer World.

2. Vypers aren't terrible when you have lots of them. See; Land Speeders, Venoms, Deffkoptas, Piranhas or, in fact any Fast, Skimmer that costs ~50 points base.

I think we've had a similar conversation before, where I stated that i just don't care much for small skimmers like Land Speeders, and you then convinced me that they in particular were a good investment. I think it was Vypers that gave me that point of view in the first place, because even though they are functionally the same, Vypers just aren't as good.

You HAVE to pay extra for a Heavy weapon, and to be frank Eldar Heavy Weapons just aren't as good (or, cost effective) as a Typhoon Launcher. Neither do any of them get access to Rending, Melta or Template, which are all key tactical components that Eldar struggle for on their vehicles.

So, yeah - jealousy, I suppose. Vypers aren't as good as Land Speeders, and I don't like the idea of trying to do the same job with sub-par tools, when I can do it better with other units like War Walkers.

Remember to go back and EDIT all your Parts into one post when you finish Special Characters so it can all be one link.

I am working in a few corrections and additional comments that have been inspired by you guys. You'll get it all together soon.

[Renegade Paladin]

Right, I'll try out an Angels Encarmine Sanguinary Guard force instead... mostly because their SG are white with black wings, and look suitably badass.

Am I right in saying that Priests are a necessity, and a Librarian is awesome for providing cover saves whilst avoiding difficult terrain?

Dante will be used, renamed Castellan Zargo, of course.

Right, an attempt at a Sanguinary Guard force. I know Epistolaries generally aren't worth it, but I figure that if I cast Might of Heroes twice on the same turn, I can really buff up the guys with Power Fists to crazy levels.

The problem here is that the Librarian will be in blue armour, everyone else in white. Possibly could replace the Librarian with a Reclusiarch, and stick him in a squad with lots of power fists (since there is no point putting a Chaplain in a squad with MC weapons).

The Priests will join both Zargo (Dante) and the Librarian. Zargo will join the Chapter Banner squad, using his accurate deep striking to melta rear armour. The Librarian will join the 2 power fist squad, in order to use Might of Heroes on both Fists.

Spoiler

Show

Sanguinary Host (1750)
Dante 225

Librarian 175
Epistolary
Jump Pack
Shield of Sanguinius and Might of Heroes

Sanguinary Guard 1 - 260
chapter Banner
2 Infernus Pistols
Power fist

Sanguinary Guard 2 - 220
Infernus pistol
Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard 3 -220
Infernus Pistol
Power Fist

Sanguinary Guard 4- 220
2 Power Fists

2 Sanguinary Priests 180
2 Jump Packs
2 Power Swords

Your list says 1750 at the top, but only adds up to 1500.

[Cheesegear]

You HAVE to pay extra for a Heavy weapon, and to be frank Eldar Heavy Weapons just aren't as good (or, cost effective) as a Typhoon Launcher. Neither do any of them get access to Rending, Melta or Template, which are all key tactical components that Eldar struggle for on their vehicles.

To be fair, you don't address the other Skimmers I mentioned that also have none of those things. Venoms don't have Rending, Melta or Template, and neither do Deffkoptas (okay, technically they're not Skimmers, but they fill the same role).

Piranhas have both Melta and a rather decent FA 11 (PIRANHAS SUCK!! PATHFINDERS WOO!!! ...That might not be fair. I keep trying to convince the thread of the opposite, but it doesn't seem to be working).

I don't like the idea of trying to do the same job with sub-par tools, when I can do it better with other units like War Walkers.

I...Err...Nevermind. Correct.

[Squark]

Piranhas have both Melta and a rather decent FA 11 (PIRANHAS SUCK!! PATHFINDERS WOO!!! ...That might not be fair. I keep trying to convince the thread of the opposite, but it doesn't seem to be working).

I could be wrong, but I believe few of these people, if any of them at all, advocate taking more than One unit of pathfinders; That just leaves you with a random devilfish you now have no use for. So I think the debate is 3 Pirahna vs. 2 Pirahna and Pathfinders.

[Cheesegear]

So I think the debate is 3 Pirahna vs. 2 Pirahna and Pathfinders.

3? More like 6-9. Although that does depend on points limit.

[bluntpencil]

Your list says 1750 at the top, but only adds up to 1500.

Whoops, it's meant to say 1500. How does it look?

Any thoughts on Epistolaries casting Might of Heroes twice in one turn?