Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[Penguinizer]

IF it's a bit like the Warriors of Chaos codex the guide would be full of "no this is bad and you should feel bad", especially in the elites/fast attack.

[Sila Prirode]

Honestly, best Elite and Fast Attack choices are Forgeworld experimental rules units only. And that's kinda really sad.

[BoSheck]

Aren't Chosen not terrible? The only Chaos elites I see get used to good effect are Chosen and Terminators (3 with combi-meltas deep striking). I NEVER see FA slots filled so...yeah.

[Renegade Paladin]

I've decided to revisit the all-mechanized, all-veteran list type again, only without the silly rookie mistakes I made when I used it starting out. List:

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1500 points

Company Command Squad - 230
-Medi-pack, carapace armor
-Three plasma guns
-Astropath
-Chimera dedicated transport

Storm Trooper Squad - 115
-Two plasma guns

Storm Trooper Squad - 105
-Two meltaguns

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Heavy flamer

Veteran Squad - 155
-Three meltaguns
-Chimera dedicated transport

Veteran Squad - 155
-Two flamers
-Heavy flamer
-Chimera dedicated transport
--Two heavy flamers

Devil Dog - 135
-Multi-melta

Leman Russ Battle Tank - 170
-Heavy bolter sponsons

Basilisk - 125

This wants to be up close and personal, but since my personal metagame seems to consist of boatloads of Blood Angels of late, I'm going to get there anyway. My infantry platoon has been dying to outflanking Baal Predators with depressing regularity, so I'm going to go with METAL BAWKSES and see how it works out.

[Cheesegear]

My infantry platoon has been dying to outflanking Baal Predators with depressing regularity, so I'm going to go with METAL BAWKSES and see how it works out.

-Astropath

oicwatudidther.

List looks mostly good, although I don't understand what's happening here...

Storm Trooper Squad - 115
-Two plasma guns

Storm Trooper Squad - 105
-Two meltaguns

Is it 'cause you've got the models and you don't want them to go to waste? Or do you legitimately believe this is a good idea? Why not two squads of 4 Plasmaguns? Most of the time, a Meltagun is just as good as a Plasmagun - and cheaper - why not 4 of those? Unless one-and-the-other works? I don't know, I can't comment on it without actually seeing this one in action.

[Sila Prirode]

Aren't Chosen not terrible? The only Chaos elites I see get used to good effect are Chosen and Terminators (3 with combi-meltas deep striking). I NEVER see FA slots filled so...yeah.

Suicide Terminators can't go wrong of course, and they are really cheap so you can fill the Elites with them. But Chosen kinda have only one purpose (Infiltrate/Outflank and burst something with 5 Special weapons).
But I was thinking along the lines of: no good AV in elite slots, and everyone can deal with Terminators anyways. The other thing about Terminators is no Drop Pods (aside from Forgeworld, again). So it's not like you can Deep Strike where you want.
It's not that the units are bad by itself, but most of the time they feel clunky to use.

[Renegade Paladin]

oicwatudidther.

Not especially. The Officer of the Fleet is what would save me; the Astropath is there to help my own reserves. Though I could go the other way, just run a huge gun line, and keep an Officer just to keep the Predators off me for another turn, I guess...

List looks mostly good, although I don't understand what's happening here...

Is it 'cause you've got the models and you don't want them to go to waste? Or do you legitimately believe this is a good idea? Why not two squads of 4 Plasmaguns? Most of the time, a Meltagun is just as good as a Plasmagun - and cheaper - why not 4 of those? Unless one-and-the-other works? I don't know, I can't comment on it without actually seeing this one in action.

One and the other does work, when the meltaguns don't manage to roll snake eyes on the turn they drop (which they've done two games running, once when literally two and a half inches from a Land Raider...). As for the plasma, it really does perform; in the last game I ran this setup the plasma squad murdered a squad of Assault Marines, and one of the plasma gunners survived the return fire... and went around harassing the rest of his army for three more turns, tanking all the fire a hurricane bolter could throw at him along the way. With the Aerial Assault rule and the Astropath, they provide a tactical dimension that my army doesn't otherwise have; they're suicide Sternguard and they can do an immense amount of damage.

As for why not cookie-cutting them, I don't have the models. Also, there's a points difference.

[shadowwalker64]

But I was thinking along the lines of: no good AV in elite slots, and everyone can deal with Terminators anyways. The other thing about Terminators is no Drop Pods (aside from Forgeworld, again). So it's not like you can Deep Strike where you want.
It's not that the units are bad by itself, but most of the time they feel clunky to use.

A few personal icons on your champs/HQs riding in transports should solve your needs. In fact, all Chaos IC's come with personal icons as standard, so you don't need to roll for scatter if they deepstrike within 6 inches. An interesting combination that I find when running suicide termies is to also run 2 units of lesser daemons (they're cheap to run considering they're actually better than standard CSM against power weapons) to maximise use of the icons. They count as scoring as well, so can cap your opponents points if your transport gets close enough.

As for chosen, I find them to be similar in function to suicide sternguard, only that they can't come in on turn one, can't shoot at two vehicles and lack utility against anything else. Not worth it IMO, and they take up slots that could be better used on Suicide termies (5-man squad armed with 5 meltas and rhino w/ combi-melta is almost 2 suicide combi-melta termie squads).

Regarding Fast attack, I only ever see Nurgle bikes being used to carry another icon and soak up Heavy weapons fire that would otherwise be used to kill those thousand sons/plague marines you have parked on that objective, or maybe those defilers that you have sitting at the back sniping at vehicles and MEQ blobs with relative impunity. Seriously, giving your opponent an incentive to destroy them (example: suicide termies) can really screw up your opponents target priority sometimes, and may lead to them splitting their heavy weapons fire on things that don't matter as much. I guess Blight Drones are an interesting choice considering they are like mobile Defilers but no CC capability, but I don't know of anyone that fields them (been toying around with them in a VASSAL list though)

Oh, and I guess I should say hi. Been lurking the thread for quite a while now, and used to be quite an avid chaos player. Now I mostly dabble in VASSAL sometimes, due to lack of time, still playing chaos.

[evisiron]

You take Shrike, Lord of the Beakies and a unit of Hammernators. You detach Shrike at the start of the movement phase and move him 8 inches. The Hammernators move 6 Shrike then rejoins the unit as he is within 2 inches, Fleet and then assault. This means that they now have an extended threat range and can be halfway across the board with the right Fleet roll inside of a turn. The fact that you can do this on turn 1 from 18 inches away with Shrike's Infiltrate only makes it more of a cheap little trick. They were adding an Autarch / Yriel for even more "WTH !!?".

It doesn't work. P48 AobR states that while an independent character is part of a unit they move and assault at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together. Since Shrike is part of the unit while he moves, his movement is restricted to the terminator movement of 6", even while trying to leave the unit.

There is a little wiggle room with the "while they stay together" but this would involve Shrike switching movement speeds during a move and it taking effect instantaneously, and there is nothing to support that being able to happen. It would be similar to a Jump Infantry model moving on foot 4" to clear difficult terrain and then (assuming he rolled a 6) moving 8" afterwards since his total movement is 12" with the jump pack. It just isn't allowed by the rules.

[Timberwolf]

It doesn't work. P48 AobR states that while an independent character is part of a unit they move and assault at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together. Since Shrike is part of the unit while he moves, his movement is restricted to the terminator movement of 6", even while trying to leave the unit.

Yes, this is logic and I personally agree.

Unfortunately while Shrike has left the unit, someone might argue, he isn't still together with them. I hate playing the rules and not the game.

[DaedalusMkV]

So, secure in the knowledge that Dark Angels and Eldar are at least semi-definite, probably should start thinking about doing a Chaos Marine guide since CSMs is another army that a lot of people want to do, but is full of traps and bad units and people just frequently do them wrong.

At least, judging by the people who come to the store. People at the club don't play with Codecies full of traps and bad units.

I can do that. I've played a fair number of games with my Chaos Marines, and tested out almost all of the units in the book via proxy games at the very least. Except Spawn and Bikers, but you don't need to play with those to know they're bad. Let's see...

Army special rules:

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We don't have any. Not like the Imperial Guard's Orders or those Loyalist scum and their And They Shall Know no Fear. There are a ton of unit special rules here, there and everywhere, but nothing that makes the army as a whole tick. That said, there are some things that you'll need to be aware of going in:
1: We can spam more psychic powers than just about any other book, but we have no psychic defense whatsoever. What that means is that if you run into a Loyalist Librarian or *shudder* an Eldar Farseer with Runes of Warding, your psykers are going to be far less useful than they should be. If you take psykers, make such units a priority.
2: There are a lot of "Roll a d6 or two, see what happens" abilities in the Chaos book. If you already hated random chance and prize rerolls and automatically usable abilities over anything else, Chaos probably isn't the army for you.

HQ Choices:

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Chaos Lord:

Your generic skilled Space Marine combat HQ choice, he's got a statline pretty much identical to a Space Marine Captain, but your wargear choices are very well geared to killing people and very poorly equipped to protect you. You'll almost certainly hit harder than any Space Marine who isn't a special character or an over-geared Wolf Lord, but the Lord is always going to be sadly fragile. If you see a unit with a higher initiative than his 5 he's going to go down hard, especially if they have Power Weapons. He's best used to support your infantry squads, supplying a whole bunch of Power Weapon attacks to eliminate whole squads in one or two rounds of combat. It's worth noting that he has Fearless, so you're best off using him with other Fearless units, like your Cult Troops. Overall the Chaos Lord is a solid unit, but not amazing by any stretch, and largely outperformed by the much less fragile HQs that those darned Loyalists get.

Wargear:
Power Fists and Chainfists are a trap. You're a fragile close-combat monster, so don't give the enemy a chance to hit you before you hit back. Lighting Claws are always a solid choice, especially if you want to use the Mark of Khorne, and the Daemon Weapon is often a good investment as well. For all its randomness, the general benefit far outweighs the risk for all of them except the Khornate one, which significantly increases your risk of hitting yourself and doing nothing in exchange for a minimal expected payoff. Terminator Armour is rarely worthwhile; you don't want to footslog, and you'll never get by teleporting in alone, so you'll need to have a Land Raider to deliver your character, and you can't Sweeping Advance anymore either. Either way, it's not worth the points for just getting a 2+ armour save. Of the Marks, Khorne is generally best for any Lord not using a Daemon Weapon, and it's almost never worth taking Nurgle without one. It's worth noting that, unlike Jump Packs, the Wings upgrade only maks you move like Jump Infantry, with none of the other rules that go along with it. This means that your Chaos Lord or Sorceror with Wings can enter a transport just fine, but cannot Deep Strike. It's not usually worth giving either character Wings, but there are a lot of interesting ways to use them if you want to try something diffferent.

Good Lord equipment choices:
Mark of Khorne, Twin Lightning Claws, Combi-Melta (140): Cheap and dangerous, with 6 rerollable to wound Power Weapon attacks on the charge and a single Melta shot for when you need to wreck that transport before assaulting the unit inside. If Khorne is what you want, this is about as good as it gets for Lords.
Daemon Weapon, Combi-Melta (140): Just as cheap, just as scary. The go-to Undivided Lord.
Mark of Slaanesh, Daemon Weapon, Meltabombs (140): Noticing a theme on the points costs here? This guy specializes in beating up multiple-Wounds models. With I6 and a weapon that always inflicts Instant Death, he'll carve apart anything that isn't an Eternal Warrior or packing a 3+ invulnerable save. Which is, sadly, not that many things in a competitive metagame. If you see a lot of Tyranid Warriors, Ogryns and what have you, the Slaaneshi Lord will likely impress you a lot. If all you get is an endless parade of single-wounds models and Eternal Warriors, you'll just wish he didn't have that Mark of Slaanesh.
Mark of Nurgle, Daemon Weapon (150): Add Combi-melta, Meltabombs if you have the points left over at the end. What we have here is a model who can and will kill anything. With his Poisoned Power Weapon and terrifying number of attacks, he'll put down everything from generic Marines (reroll to wound against T4 and lower enemies) to C'tan Shards and Hive Tyrants, and he's harder to wound than all the other Lords to boot. Given the current metagame, he's pretty much the best build you're going to get, with survivability and killing power in one slightly overpriced package. I've done the math before, and statistically this Lord will cause more wounds to every type of enemy than any other Lord setup, except possibly Slaanesh against multi-wound models.

Chaos Sorceror:
Your main Psyker, at least in theory. Most of them are ex-Librarians who made pacts with Daemons for unassailable power, which is why they're pretty much inferior in the Psyking department to everyone else's Psykers, I guess. That makes sense, right? The big thing here is that he's far more combat capable than most psykers, with WS5, I5 and A3 all better than what Loyalists generally get, much less the squishy Eldar and Imperial Guard Psykers. Used to be you could get a great combat character by giving him Warptime and ripping into people with four or five attacks that could reroll everything, but Warptime was Errata'd into the ground in a recent update, which has seriously undermined the Sorceror's purpose. Generally speaking, if you're taking one you're taking:
Mark of Slaanesh, Lash of Submission (130): Lets you reposition and Pin enemy units. Ever wanted to take that Long Fang squad hunkered down in that bunker and make them stand in a nice little clump outside of it so that your Plasma Cannon can kill them all in one shot? Now you can. Overall probably our best HQ choice, which is sad because you literally can't do anything against vehicles and psychic defense shuts you down hard.

If you're dead-set on using other psychic powers, Daemon Princes do it better for the same price. Don't want a Daemon Prince because your metagame is lousy with Dark Eldar and Missile Launchers? Take Wind of Chaos. An AP2 Flamer that always wounds on a 4+ is pretty darned good. Don't try to use Gift of Chaos; you'll be lucky to get the power off once before you die, and it's not too likely to succeed. Gift of Chaos can be useful, just on a different unit. Bolt of Change and Nurgle's Rot are both terrible options for Sorcerors; just take a Daemon Prince. Seriously.

Daemon Prince:
Bigger, stronger, more skilled and tougher than a Chaos Lord and every bit as good a Psyker as a Sorceror, all for a minimal helping of extra points, there was a time when Daemon Princes were held up as a sterling example of obviously overpowered units, but those days slowly vanished as Poisoned Weapons and Missile Launchers infested the metagame. Nowadays, hiding in your metal boxes is deemed more useful than being a big, stompy Monstrous Creature. That said, Daemon Princes are Eternal Warriors with four Wounds and an Invulnerable save for a relatively sane number of points, so taking a pair of them can be a very solid investment given the number of Missiles they'll absorb. I still strongly recommend them to new players; the plastic Daemon Prince GW sells is a really great model and fairly inexpensive for what you get. That said, if you're taking them at all take two. One is likely to die before it hits combat, while two will probably see at least one reach the enemy to start cutting them down. Of course, two Daemon Princes cost about 300 points if you're doing it right, so you'll probably not be wanting to take them at less than 1000 points.

Once again, Lash of Submission is your best psychic power, but Nurgle's Rot (you measure from the edge of your base. The bigger the base, the better Nurgle's Rot is) and Winds of Chaos are both great choices as well, since they give you area-effect attacks to thin out your enemy before (or during! Nurgle's rot can be used in combat) assault. As far as the rest goes, always slap on a pair of Wings. A footslogging Daemon Prince is a useless Daemon Prince, wheras Wings let them take advantage of cover and get to the enemy all the faster. Mark of Khorne is a good investment if you weren't planning on taking any psychic powers, but generally speaking any of the above three will outweigh the effects of an extra attack. If you don't need Mark of Slaanesh or Mark of Nurgle for your psychic power of choice, go ahead and take Mark of Tzeentch. Not for the extra psychic power, which makes your Prince very expensive very fast, but because it boosts your Invulnerable Save, which means even more Missiles are going to bounce off before your Prince dies.

That's it for the HQ section. To be continued...

[Cheesegear]

I can do that.

I had planned on doing it, I should be writing it now, instead of this post. But, if someone wants to go and do it for me, then that's fine too. I'll just try and point to things that probably should be mentioned or the things that are, that're flawed.

Army special rules:

I see a lot of words in this section, but not a lot of relevance. The Psychic Powers bit should probably be under the Sorcerer section, and the 'random rolls' should be covered in their relevant sections.

Chaos Lord:

A lot of words. Especially when dealing with specific builds. But I can't fault you for going too in-depth. The builds are solid. The only issue with the Lord is his reliance on Melta Bombs which is only one attack. Unless you're an Undivided Lord who rolls well on his DW attacks. Walkers still pose problems though.

Chaos Sorceror:
Warptime was Errata'd into the ground in a recent update, which has seriously undermined the Sorceror's purpose.

It was? *checks*
...Oh...It was. I was a fan of Mark of Slaanesh and Warptime. Yes, Warptime, not Lash. But, now I suppose it's Lash or nothing.

Bolt of Change and Nurgle's Rot are both terrible options for Sorcerors; just take a Daemon Prince. Seriously.

The Mark of Tzeentch is decent on a Sorcerer, gives him a 4+ Invulnerable that regular Marines can't take, at least, not if they want to hang out in a Transport. So, overall, I think you're going pretty well.

Bolt of Change isn't terrible. It's incredibly expensive, but, both Daemon Princes and Sorcerers have the same BS, so that doesn't make a different. Sorcerers can fit in a Rhino and shoot out Fire Points. And that does make a difference.
Although, if you are taking the Bolt of Change, don't pretend the Mark of Tzeentch forces you to take a second power. Because they're really expensive (all GK powers, 5 points, seems fair, right?). If you do take the Bolt of Change, don't take a second power.

Nurgle's Rot on a Prince makes more sense though. Since he's - usually - faster and can get to where it's most useful more easily.

Daemon Prince:
I still strongly recommend them to new players; the plastic Daemon Prince GW sells is a really great model and fairly inexpensive for what you get. That said, if you're taking them at all take two.

Why not two Sorcerers for less points? And Sorcerers can take Wings and still fit in transports.

Oh, right. That reminds me. Make sure you point out the extremely, very important difference between Wings and Jump Packs on Lords/Sorcerers (they're not actually Jump Infantry and can go in vehicles).


The rest, just to start;

Chosen; Good.
Terminators; Useful occasionally.
Possesed; Bad. Real bad. The only time you should have some is if you bought the Battleforce and you use the Possesed parts to make character and Champion models. The most important piece are the Wings.

Dreadnought; Only barely decent choice is double Close Combat Weapons and a Heavy Flamer. Has less chance of shooting up your own team (if your weapons aren't in range, you can't shoot and count as Sane). And when he rolls a '6' he actually gets where he's useful. If you want something that shoots, Chosen are the same points. Minimum Chosen is 90 points, then the Heavy weapon of your choice. The Heavy weapon isn't Twin-Linked, but you can Infiltrate and you wont shoot up your own tanks.


Chaos Marines; Solid. Cheaper than all the others and can take multiple special weapons.

Plague Marines; Actually cheaper than Chaos Marines with the Mark of Nurgle. Don't take more than 7 per squad, otherwise you start losing points. 7 is the number of Nurgle and the best number anyway. So quit whining.

Noise Marines; Sonic Blasters are a joke. Just take more Marines for the points. Blastmasters are ridiculously expensive and are often not worth it. You have the Mark of Slaanesh, with I5. You should be moving forwards, that means not using the S8 version. Only reason to take these guys over Chaos Marines with MoS (which are cheaper and can carry Meltaguns) is for the Doom Siren, which you'll need a Rhino for.

Khorne Berzerkers; Needs Rhinos - and half the time doesn't even work anyway. You exchange Boltguns and cheapness, and real special weapons for Furious Charge, that's it. Need at least 7. Champion is mandatory. There's no such thing as 'cheap' or 'minimum' Berzerkers and that's kind of bad.

Thousand Sons; Mostly bad. At worst you only want one squad.

Bikers; Okay. If you want to take more than 3+2 Meltaguns, take Raptors instead.

Raptors; 'Troops that don't Score.' Minimum squads and special weapons is good. Large squads with Mark of Tzeentch or Khorne make people cry. Mark of Slaanesh is for when your meta is full of Blood Angels (which it probably is), and Mark of Nurgle isn't particularly helpful - not as much as Tzeentch is, anyway.

Spawn; Bad. There was a pretty hilarious 'Spawn List' in the meta for a while. But that's gone now and doesn't really work. So it's not relevant.

Havocs; Autocannons or Missile Launchers only. Other Heavy weapons are crap. And Assault weapons should be on Chosen.

Obliterators; They were incredible right up until Grey Knights were invented. Havocs are roughly the same points cost. Deep-Striking 'Melta Bombs' should now be Terminators, not Obliterators.

Predator; Sponsons only.

Vindicators; Daemonic Possession. lol.

Defilers; Bad. Why can't you be a Soul Grinder? Obilterators or Havocs instead.

Land Raider; Mostly bad. Only useful for carrying Berzerkers.

[Sila Prirode]

I would like to add that minimum squad of Raptors with two Meltaguns makes an excellent delivery system for your Wings Sorcerer. Warptime or Winds of Change, Melta the transport, murder the insides. Or jump next to cover and Template everything inside.

[Cheesegear]

I would like to add that minimum squad of Raptors with two Meltaguns makes an excellent delivery system for your Wings Sorcerer.

I personally play around with a squad of 6 with the Mark of Tzeentch, and the Sorcerer makes a squad of 7. Two Meltaguns and Wind of Chaos.

[DaedalusMkV]

I had planned on doing it, I should be writing it now, instead of this post. But, if someone wants to go and do it for me, then that's fine too. I'll just try and point to things that probably should be mentioned or the things that are, that're flawed.

Fair enough. I've taken your suggestions for the most part, though the "Special Rules" section was more of a warning about the nature of the book for new players than advice for current ones. I disagree with you with regards to Mark of Tzeentch and Bolt of Change on Sorcerors, though. For exactly the same number of points, plus 20 for Wings, you could have exactly the same setup on a Prince. I'd rather have a Prince to suck up AT fire than a Sorceror who relies on his Rhino to not suck in those circumstances, especially given the fact that Bolt of Change doesn't synergize with any squad worth taking and putting a Sorceror in.

Now, more things.

Elites:

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Chaos Chosen:
The requisite "Elite version of normal troops" Elites choice, Chosen are power-armoured Chaos Marines with an extra point of Leadership, the ability to Infiltrate and a whole bunch of additional equipment options. Generally speaking, the only reason you'll ever be wanting to use Chosen is to Infiltrate or Outflank with four special weapons plus a combi-weapon. Generally speaking, you'll want a minimum-sized squad of five, mounted in a Rhino, with four meltaguns as an Outflanking tank-hunter unit, which is what they're best at in comparison to the rest of the book. They've got a ton of options, but only a rare few are worth taking; limit yourself to four of the same special weapon and possibly a Champion with a combi-weapon and you should come out just fine. At first glance, I thought that a minimum-sized unupgraded squad with an Icon of Chaos Glory would be a good way to provide scatter-free Deep Strikes for suicidal Terminators and Lesser Daemons, but they mostly just died.

Chaos Terminators
The first thing you'll notice about our Terminators is that they're a lot cheaper than the Loyalist version, and they've got a ton more options. Basically, Chaos starts with their Terminators as a basic chassis, then provides all the classic Terminator weaponry (sans Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields) as upgrades. Unfortunately, as I said with the Chaos Lord they fare very poorly without a transport of some kind and they can only go in a Land Raider, which is rarely a good investment. As such, your best bet is to take small squads (3-4), load them with combi-weapons and suicide Deep Strike them. Maybe they live, maybe they dont, but the meltas and/or Plasma guns they carry will do the job regardless. They can be used for other things, but they'll generally be doing the job worse than one of our Troops units, for more points, while not being Scoring. That should speak for itself.

Possessed Marines
Not useless, per say, but bad nonetheless. At a rather extortionate cost per model, you get S5 and a 5+ Invulnerable save in exchange for your generic Marine's Bolter and Pistol, as well as the privelege of rolling on a chart for a random special ability. While they might not be too bad if that roll was made before deployment, it's actually made after, so you can never take full advantage of their abilities during deployment. If you get lucky and roll for Power Weapons, Possessed are actually worth the points you paid for them. The other five times in six you end up with a badly overpriced unit that just isn't going to accomplish much given their cost. Also, they aren't Scoring, and you've got far better assault units in your Troops choices. Give the Possessed a pass, and take more Troops instead.

Chaos Dreadnaughts
The Chaos Dreadnaught tends to get a bad rap, which really isn't fair at all. Their big downside is that they need to roll a d6 every turn, and if a 1 or 6 is rolled the Dreadnaught ignores whatever you wanted it to do. While Fire Frenzy is theoretically a bad thing that would discourage you from taking good guns lest they hurt your own army, that same recent FAQ clarified that they will only target units within a 45 degree arc of their guns. Can you make sure that there are no friendly units directly in front of your Dreadnaught? I know I can, and when you do it right you don't care at all what you roll on that d6. As such, Dreadnaughts with a Plasma Cannon or Lascannon are actually solid choices, giving you a reasonable heavy weapon on a Walker with three Attacks right off the bat. Alternatively, two Close Combat arms gives you a reasonably inexpensive melee combatant, and they'll help you saturate the board with vehicles. Whether Chosen or Dreadnaughts are the better Elites choice for Chaos is a metter of opinion, but personally I'd support the Dreadnaught. Of the non-weapon upgrades available to you only Extra Armour is worth considering, and I wouldn't bother.

[Wraith]

I'm liking the trend of people writing new Guides that's occurred this month. Feels like the end of the world is coming and we've all got some ranting that we wanted to get off our chests before it happens.

....Oh wait.... Codex: Eldar. Goddammit.....

Anyways. Codex: Eldar Part IV: Special Characters - The Final Insult

Special Characters

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Eldrad Ulthuan
The most powerful living psyker in the galaxy! Well... Apart from Tiguris. And Njal. And Mephiston. And Draigo. And a bunch of unnamed Grey Knight Librarians. And a whole bunch of Chaos Sorcerers and Daemon Princes. And.... well, you get the idea; fluff isn't always the same things as crunch, and the years haven't been kind to Eldrad's carefully cultivated image. He still has a trick or two up his sleeve, but like any Psyker his main strength comes from the Powers available to him, and Eldar Powers require a lot of forward planning.

• Statwise, not great – though better than most other Eldar, T4 isn't much at all, and despite an impressive 3++ save he isn't an Eternal Warrior, nor does he have much in the way of close combat prowess. Despite being a really good one, Eldrad is just like any other Farseer - Keep. Him. Out. Of. Fights.
• Wargear: The Staff of Ulthamar is a trap. If you ever get the chance to use it as a weapon, you have done something horribly wrong. Don't think of it as a weapon at all, think of it as a means to using Guide or Fortune twice per turn. Otherwise, he has all the trimmings that makes him a good Farseer, insofar as we're concerned – Runes of Warding to protect your army, Runes of Witnessing are unnecessary with Ld10 but helpful when you're fighting Psychic Hoods or the Shadow in the Warp, and a Ghosthelm for when using 3 powers per turn inevitably goes wrong.
• Psychic Powers: Eldrad has all 5 of the Farseer Powers, and can use 3 per turn (two of which can be the same, if you like). Functionally, this means that he is probably going to Fortune the unit that he's with and then either Guide or Doom two other units, depending on where he has ended up on the field. Always try to get off Fortune if you can, Eldrad is far too much of a valuable asset to you and your army to allow to die easily.
• Divination: A great ability that has few counters outside of an all-Reserves opponent. The defensive purposes of this power are obvious, but a clever Eldar general can use this ability if they are setting up first to lure their opponent into a trap. Setup a dangerous unit somewhere that looks clever but leaves one obvious vantage point for LoS. Your opponent will try to exploit this, probably by pointing lots of missile launchers at it, only for you to move your target out of harm's way and then train your own unit of death-dealing upon your would-be assassins in turn. It will rarely work more than once against the same opponent, unless you have a really good poker face, but in a Tournament where people won't recognise your army? It's worth a go.
• Where to put Eldrad..... Ideally, on the back line with a very carefully hidden unit of Pathfinders, Wraithguard (He counts, for the purposes of Wraithsight, btw) or maybe Dark Reapers. He certainly doesn't want to risk going to the front line if you can help it. Hide him away in the middle of your board where he can influence as many units as possible. Some people suggest that he benefits from being with a Warlock that has Embolden, but quite frankly I think this is overkill. By all means, if you have a Warlock squad anyway they love Fortune as much as the next 4++ unit, but don't go out of your way to give a reroll to a Ld10, Rune'd Farseer-extraordinaire.

The biggest problems with Eldrad is that he is a 'toolbox' unit in an army of very specialised units. Your instinct will be to spread him thin, trying to help out too many friendly units, but I warn you that this is dangerous. Pick a role for him, stick to it, and leave ancillary events in the hands of a second, specifically-equipped Farseer. This will also protect you if the worst comes to pass and you lose Eldrad; a second cheap Farseer with one Power and Runes of Warding might not compare to Eldrad, but it's better than nothing at all.

Prince Yriel
Yriel is the Eldar's 'aggressive' Special Character; the one that you take if you need something specific killing quickly. Despite being very good at this role, he is a terrifyingly fragile Glass Cannon so be sure to look after him,

• Stats: For a guy who is looking to go out there and get his hands dirty in a melee, Yriel hits all the right notes. He's got plenty of attacks, is very competent and is blindingly quick on the draw. He is, sadly, an Eldar – s3 isn't a problem for once, thanks to the Spear of Twilight, but he's T3, his Invulnerable Save isn't as good as Eldrad's and he lacks Eternal Warrior. Follow the same advice with Yriel as you would with Aspect Warriors like Dire Avengers – get him into a fight by all means, but make sure that there's nothing left to hit back or you're going to come Second Best.
• Abilities: Master Strategist is slightly less useful to Yriel as it is to an ordinary Autarch, in that it relies on you having lots of Deep Striking units (you probably won't, unless you're working to a non-Iyanden theme) and because Yriel can't have a 'jet pack' to join these units, where he'd be incredibly useful to them. It's there if you need it, but you probably won't.
• Wargear: I7 and Plasma Grenades are lots of fun. The Spear of Twilight is awesome, and makes Yriel a boon to any other close-combat unit he joins; Tanks, Monstrous Creatures, Squads of Infantry.... Between Wounding everything on 2+, being s9 versus vehicles and a power weapon against everything else, he can take down all but the most exceptional of units, which is pretty damn impressive given that he's a Special Character over 2 Editions old and can still pose a significant threat to the Sanguinator. Mephiston.... not so much. The other drawback of the item – take one automatic wound at the end of the game, save as normal – really isn't much to worry about. Yriel is T3 and not Eternal; during the course of a game he's either going to survive intact or he's probably just going to explode into fine red mist, with little leeway in between. So he's either going to ignore it, or be too dead to care.
  The Baleful Eye is a similarly useful, though somewhat more dangerous item; while Yriel himself is immune to it, other nearby Eldar Units are not and it'd be a rare thing for Yriel to be in Close Combat alone. Either use it when you're feeling confident that Yriel can wipe out his enemy alone and then move straight into cover (Doom will almost certainly be involved) or when everything else has gone wrong, your bodyguard has been wiped out, and you haven't much else to lose. If nothing else, always try to do it only in your opponent's Turn – Yriel will survive, and if he has successfully just inflicted a fatal blow to the enemy squad then he can move freely in his own turn rather than be shot to bits in your opponent's.

Howling Banshees love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Striking Scorpions love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Harlequins love Yriel, because he has a 'strength 10' power weapon. Storm Guardians hate Yriel, because he's quite happy to use them as ablative wounds and then consider them acceptable losses when he lets loose with the Baleful Eye.

Phoenix Lords
Phoenix Lords are, in a way, 1 Special Character with 6 different outfits – they all have the same stats and are Unique choices, so the differences come just from their equipment. So, I'll give you a quick run through the similarities before I move on to the specifics and save time all around.
Generally speaking, all Phoenix Lords should be your “Second HQ Choice” - Farseers are too valuable to go without, and if you like a particular theme or just need something with a bit more bite than a Autarch then they're 'okay'. In all examples bar one (Maugan Ra/Dark Reapers) you either need a Phoenix Lord or an Exarch, but not both. Strangely, there are more Phoenix Lords (Maugan Ra and Asurmen) where you can get away without using their Aspect at all, if you really want to.

• Stats: Phoenix Lords have great stats, even by the standards of most other races. They're all Eternal Warriors (Yay!) with 2+ saves (Yay!) plenty of wounds (Yay!).... but only one of them has an Invulnerable Save (Boo!) and, despite whatever Aspect they embody, all leans towards close combat rather than shooting. They're all WS7, I7, Fearless and invariably have a special Close Combat Weapon, regardless of whatever else they're supposed to do.
• Disciples: When they join a Squad of their Aspect, that squad becomes Fearless. While this has it's uses, this is fairly disappointing compared to other armies; as a direct comparison to another HQ Special Character having an effect on an Elite choice, Pedro Kantor makes all Sternguard Scoring, which would be massively preferable. Note that Phoenix Lords cannot join an Aspect Warrior type that is not of their Aspect, but they can join other kinds of units – Guardians and Pathfinders, for example.

Asurmen, the Hand of Asuryan
Asurmen is the Dire Avenger Phoenix Lord. He has an Assault 4 Avenger Catapult and Bladestorm, and has a Diresword with it's own built-in Reroll and Defend, so he's really well built. He's also the only Phoenix Lord with an Invulnerable Save and represents a Scoring Troops choice, and as such is probably the most rounded of the bunch. A Fearless Troops choice, rerolling it's Saves thanks to a Farseer, will sit on an objective forever and Asurman will personally take apart anyone who tries to stop them. As such, he can sometimes be found working well with Guardians and Storm Guardians – they don't benefit from Bladestorm, but Defend still works, it's cheaper than Dire Avengers and his generically-useful wargear makes him a reasonably good General.... in general.

Jain Zar, the Storm of Silence
Howling Banshee Phoenix Lord. She has a s6 (7, on the charge) Executioner – an even better version of the best Exarch's choice – and a s5 Triskele which is an even better version of a.... well, an okay-ish weapon. She – and note, she alone – has the Furious Charge special rule. This isn't brilliant – the jump from s6 to s7 isn't as important as s7 to s8, and her Banshee Mask makes her I10 in the first round regardless of whether she charged or not – but it's okay. You can't really ask more from the cheapest of the Phoenix Lords, and she's really good at her job.

Baharroth, the Cry of the Wind
Do I have to? Really? Oh, all right then.... Baharroth is a sucky Phoenix Lord for a sucky Aspect. He is equipped with Swooping Hawk Exarch equipment, which really isn't any better for being in his hands, and definitely not for 200pts. That's basically you, paying 120+pts over the cost of a similarly equipped Exarch for Fearless and Hit & Run. On a T3 4+ unit that, should they actually be Assaulted, won't live long enough to use either. You can't even say that he makes up for his lameness by being cheap, as both Jain Zar and Maugan Ra cost less. And one-on-one, both would probably take him to pieces, if it came down to it.

Karandras, the Shadow Hunter
Of the Striking Scorpion Aspect. Actually a very good investment – he comes with a boatload of extra attacks to add to the grand total (10 Scorpions + Exarch + Karandras = 49 Attacks. Have fun!) and he is Base-S4 which not only makes his Biting Blade stretch up to s10 on a really good day (not entirely out of the question, with WS7) but also gives his Power Claw that Magic s8 if you're feeling fancy enough to use it. On top of that, he gives his unit Stealth which is incredibly useful when he also gives them Move Through Cover and Infiltrate, and as such is rightfully the second most expensive of the Phoenix Lords (and my personal favourite).

Fuegan, the Burning Lance
Somewhat lacklustre as the Fire Dragon Phoenix Lord, as he is a close combat character within a unit of shooting Troops. His Firepike is a sub-par choice for a man in his position, and though Feel No Pain isn't quite as good as a proper Invulnerable Save it will often suffice for when he brings the otherwise really useful Fire Axe to bare. Fuegan is the Phoenix Lord that wants to run ahead of his actual squad and stomp on whatever survives 11 Fusion Guns to the face, which is a dangerous proposition however you look at it. I've never met anything that has survived 10 Fusion Guns to the face outside of a 30-strong Ork Mob... And quite frankly, I wouldn't want Fuegan going after that on his own either. Generally, detach him from the squad but leave him nestled within, so as to give him a Cover Save, and then fire at different targets; Fuegan at the Tank, Fire Dragons at the Terminators (or whatever) hiding within.

Maugan Ra, the Harvester of Souls
Master of the Dark Reapers Aspect, Maugan Ra is similar to Fuegan but far more radical; he actually hates being a Dark Reaper and wants to do something – anything – else rather than sit around with them. For example; Reaper Launchers are AP3 and as such want to shoot at Space Marines. The Maugetar is AP5, and as such, does not. Dark Reapers also want nothing to do with Close Combat; Maugan Ra is I7 and has a s6 Power Weapon. So this is 'the one' where you will need an Exarch as well as your Phoenix Lord, since the latter has almost nothing to do with the former.
What do you actually do with a guy like this? Hard to say really – even though he's one of the cheaper Phoenix Lords, he's still too expensive to waste by just sitting around at the back of your table and wait to ambush anyone trying to Deep Strike or Infiltrate around your Dark Reaper Squad.... But he's pretty much perfect for it. Either that or he does the same for Wraithguard as an Autarch would – lies in wait, an ultraviolent trap waiting for anyone foolish enough to try and Assault his T6, 3+, Fearless squad of ablative wounds.......

Special Character Diagnosis: Yriel is a more dangerous - but no less fragile - version of an Autarch. Which is okay. Eldrad can just about do the work of two Farseers, and leaves you with room to take ANOTHER Farseer. Which is cool. The Phoenix Lords.... Eh. They're full of flavour, and some of them are very dangerous, but they're not really any more use than an appropriately equipped Autarch, who will inevitably be cheaper. They're "Second Choice" material, if you feel that you need to fit to a particular theme.

Except Baharroth. No one likes Baharroth.

....Yeah, no idea how I'm going to get all 21 pages of this into a single post. Might just provide links so people can read the bits they need.

[Etcetera]

(It's the Spear of Twilight, not the Eye of Twilight.)

So, I hear Dark Eldar Venoms are good. What would an ideal 750 point army focused around venoms look like?

[Wraith]

I knew that.

[ZeltArruin]

I knew that.

Too much Shen?

So, I hear Dark Eldar Venoms are good. What would an ideal 750 point army focused around venoms look like?

Well, 5 Warriors with a blaster on a venom is, what, 115 points? Go crazy. Or 5 Wracks with a liquifier gun on a venom for...125? 5 Wyches with....nothing on a venom for also 125?

Tl;Dr, I love venoms.

[Zorg]

So, any other Australians going to be going to Games Day this year?

Sunday 9th September 2012, in Redfern once again. The venue was really good last year, and it was a lot of fun, so I highly recomend the trip

[hunt11]

I am a long way from my codex, but from what I remember Chosen can take 5 special weapons, not 4.

[Cheesegear]

....Oh wait.... Codex: Eldar. Goddammit.....

And also, GW marketing tells me that Eldar is for girls...
Weird, all the girls I know play Dark Eldar.

Karandras, the Shadow Hunter
Of the Striking Scorpion Aspect.
[...]On top of that, he gives his unit Stealth which is incredibly useful when he also gives them Move Through Cover and Infiltrate, and as such is rightfully the second most expensive of the Phoenix Lords (and my personal favourite).

I don't know if it's clear from this particular section. And, certainly the Codex has a weird wording which doesn't make this obvious, but...

a) Phoenix Lords can only join Aspect Warriors of their Aspect. However, they can join any unit they like that isn't Aspect Warriors.
b) Exarch Powers only affect Aspect Warriors and Autarchs, however, Karandras' Stealth rule is independent of his Warrior Powers.
c) While the Codex specifically says that the Stealth is conferred to any unit of Striking Scorpions that Karandras would join, note, however, that Stealth - like Stubborn - is a particular rule that says "If one model has it, then everyone has it." So, while the Codex specifically mentions Striking Scorpions, the fact is, the rule would take effect anyway - regardless of what unit Karandras joins.

Ergo...Enter Wraithguard (not Aspect Warriors), with a Warlock with Conceal. And Karandras giving them Stealth (not a Warrior Power). Since Wraithguard are also Fearless, Karandras gets to keep that too.
And they will all fit in a Wave Serpent.

[hamishspence]

Stealth - like Stubborn - is a particular rule that says "If one model has it, then everyone has it."

Only in the FAQ, which emphasises that if a mixed unit has some guys with Stealth, these help the rest and the rest benefit from the same cover save bonus.

I have seen people argue that this does not apply in cases where an independant character joins a unit- since he's a unit in himself- so Telion (who isn't an IC) would grant the cover save to a squad of Scouts, but Karandras wouldn't grant the cover save to a squad of Wraithguard.

But I disagree with that.

[Cheesegear]

Only in the FAQ, which emphasises that if a mixed unit has some guys with Stealth, these help the rest and the rest benefit from the same cover save bonus.

Yes. Although I probably should have made it clear that the rule is in the FAQ and not the main rulebook.

I have seen people argue that this does not apply in cases where an independant character joins a unit [...]

But I disagree with that.

That's kind of the point of the rule, and mainly what it is used for. In fact, I can find no instance of where 'half' a unit has Stealth and the other half doesn't, in short, what does the rule exist for if not for Independent Characters joining a unit?

Besides, that's what 'joining the unit' means, becoming part of that unit.

[Etcetera]

Two fast'n'shooty lists, one Eldar, and the other their darker kin.

Dark Eldar 1002 pnts

Spoiler

Show

Haemonculus Ancient: Hexrifle
[95]

4 Trueborn: 4 Blasters
[108]
+ Venom: Splinter Cannon
[65]

4 Trueborn: 4 Blasters
[108]
+ Venom: Splinter Cannon
[65]

5 Warriors: Blaster
[60]
+ Venom: Splinter Cannon
[65]

5 Warriors: Blaster
[60]
+ Venom: Splinter Cannon
[65]

5 Warriors: Blaster
[60]
+ Venom: Splinter Cannon
[65]

3 Reavers: Grav Talon
[76]

Ravager: 3 Disintegrator Cannon
[110]

The Haemonculus would ride with one of the Trueborn squads in their Venom. I'm not really confident, though, that he syngergises well with them, and indeed none of the available DE HQ choices seem to really fit the style I'm going for here: shooty corsairs.

Eldar 994 pnts

Spoiler

Show

Farseer: Doom, Runes of Warding, Jetbike, Mind War
[145]

6 Jetbikes: 2 Shuriken Cannon
[142]

6 Jetbikes: 2 Shuriken Cannon
[142]

Hornets: 2 EMLs
[95]

Hornets: 2 EMLs
[95]

Warp Hunter
[125]

Warp Hunter
[125]

Warp Hunter
[125]

The Eldar are the flipside of the same coin, with lower mobility but better ranged firepower. What I'm aiming for here is interchangeability between both lists (for example, stick two EMLs on a Venom and you have a Hornet).

Fundamentally both lists revolve around picking my fights, going fast and hoping that none of my units get stalled enough to get turned into confetti, but to be honest particularly when it comes to the DE list I don't have much of an idea what I'm doing.

Critique or comments?

[Wraith]

And also, GW marketing tells me that Eldar is for girls...
Weird, all the girls I know play Dark Eldar.

I don't know many 40k playing girls, but the ones I do know play Sisters of Battle and Chaos Marines. I'd say it's a regional thing, but my local shop is Warhammer World at Lenton, in England, where GW's main office is - maybe drbored is from the US, or something?

Ergo...Enter Wraithguard (not Aspect Warriors), with a Warlock with Conceal. And Karandras giving them Stealth (not a Warrior Power). Since Wraithguard are also Fearless, Karandras gets to keep that too.
And they will all fit in a Wave Serpent.

That didn't escape my notice - it is the only way in the Codex to improve Conceal beyond 5+. I can't say, however, that I am a strong advocate of using Wraithguard as 35pt-per-piece ablative wounds for a 200pt character, not while Karandras can join some Scorpions and give them an even bigger benefit.

Good catch, though

@Etcetera - I can't really comment on your list as I don't really know all that much about the Forgeworld units you have in it, beyond the basics. From what I do recognise, though, I would say this; you have a frightening small number of bodies on the table. I'd very, very strongly recommend more Jetbikes or Fortune on your Farseer, or you're just one unlucky shooting phase away from having no scoring units.

[hamishspence]

That's kind of the point of the rule, and mainly what it is used for. In fact, I can find no instance of where 'half' a unit has Stealth and the other half doesn't, in short, what does the rule exist for if not for Independent Characters joining a unit?

Aside from the aforementioned Telion, I can't think of any examples offhand, either.

[Renegade Paladin]

Though it's odd that Telion gives Stealth to his scouts while Arjac Rockfist doesn't give Stubborn to whatever unit he's in...

[Gauntlet]

I vaguely remember someone discussing the use of the Swooping Hawk lord. Can you Skyleap if you're not in a Hawks unit? Because skyleaping in a unit of Wraithguard would be hilariously fun.

[Teln]

Though it's odd that Telion gives Stealth to his scouts while Arjac Rockfist doesn't give Stubborn to whatever unit he's in...

That's because Arjac isn't an IC. Wolf Guard are funny like that.