Warhammer 40K Tabletop XV: "More People Should Be Punched In The Head."

[Renegade Paladin]

I don't play Marines, but two things strike me offhand.

First, lascannons don't want to be in the same squad as meltas and heavy flamers. The former wants to be sitting still in the back, while the latter wants to be mobile and in the opponent's face. I used to put an autocannon with grenade launchers in Chimeras when I was new, but stopped very quickly for the same reason.

Second, Telion should probably be in the squad with the missile launcher, so he has something worthwhile to use his ability to give his BS to another model on. After all, if he's going to do that with a sniper rifle, he might as well just do the shooting himself.

[BoSheck]

YOWCH! As a side note, just to be perfectly clear, since Battle Leaders on Thunderwolves become cavalry, they can no longer take Saga of the Hunter, even if GW forgot that bit when they wrote the army list section, right?

Unfortunately, yeah, RAW you're a no go. They should, on foot, be able to join up with a Scout squad for OBEL, though some people will fight you tooth and nail on it it's what the FAQ seems to indicate (clearer wording would be nice) so you should clear such intentions with your TO anyway.

I mean, you probably wouldn't want to run a Wolf Priest with your scout squad, but who knows, you might have some cool fluff reason that this IC always hangs with those guys. Peltus, my first HQ ever was a Wolfguard Battle Leader who I always gave Saga of the Hunter to, so I keep him as such and sometimes when I'm playing a casual game I'll bring him out and he'll bring a few dogs and a frost axe in with the warriors of Wolf's Hook, his rough and tumble Wolf Scouts.

You do stuff like that in big games, too, filling in points and having cool interactions. Since I'm on the subject: Wolf Priests are actually pretty good. I like them a lot and having stealth on an IC who can jump between Fenrisian Wolf Packs, Thunderwolves, and (finally) objective squatting Grey Hunters is actually really handy--it's just that the things he has to compete with are so much better so at anything below Ard Boyz point levels pieces like that get muscled out. I definately recommend giving one a whirl sometime when you're just getting a game in.

This Wolf Priest talk reminds me of some work I need to do for an Apocalypse formation I want to run: does anyone have suggestions for Wulfen Models? I've pretty much given up on ever finding the old Games Workshop ones that are out of print, as they cost a mint. Some kind of werewolf or beastman thing might work alright, I'm not super-familiar with GWs fantasy lineup.

[Cheesegear]

Does anyone have suggestions for Wulfen Models?

Well, yeah. If you can't find the OOP 13th Company models, which are out of print and impossible to get now - obviously. Mostly, the easy way is get some bare heads and do some green stuff work and paint them slightly different. I was lazy for a while when I thought Codex Hopping was cool and I marked them by adding Deathwatch Pads.

Another proper Space Wolf player I know uses the proper chest and legs of a proper Space Wolf, and adds Marauder, Catachan and Beastmen parts. And then slap on proper pauldrons...Or don't?

[Timberwolf]

This Wolf Priest talk reminds me of some work I need to do for an Apocalypse formation I want to run: does anyone have suggestions for Wulfen Models? I've pretty much given up on ever finding the old Games Workshop ones that are out of print, as they cost a mint. Some kind of werewolf or beastman thing might work alright, I'm not super-familiar with GWs fantasy lineup.

You're wasting your time with the fantasy line up. I have been through them with a fine tooth comb to try and find a model to make the Redmaw (Wolf Lord Bran Redmaw's Wulfen form for those who have never heard of it). Best I could do was the Forge World Skin Wolves, a file and green stuff.

[bluntpencil]

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhamme...FER-SHEET.html

Hey, look what I found.

I could do Gunnar Red Moon's Great Company!

[BoSheck]

Kay. I may end up going through Mythicast. I got my thunderwolves through them like 2 years ago and they have 'mark of the lycan' models that didn't come out too long ago.

[bluntpencil]

Okay, re-tooled the Gunnar Red Moon list, seeing as it can be done with new transfers.

The Lord will ride alongside the dude with the Thunder Hammer. The Thunder Hammer can take care of independent characters, Red Moon will mow down power-weapon armed troops and similar, keeping the heat off the big hammer.

The dreadnought could be removed for another cheap Grey Hunter pack, I suppose, but it seems to fit the personality of the Wolf Lord. Also, it may draw fire from the 4 Dedicated Transports.

I've again ensured that no squad is equipped the same, since it's boring.

I'm wondering, however, the best place to get combi-weapons, without resorting to my crappy knife skills. Plaserbacks, I think I can manage, but combi-weapons may be too fiddly.

1,500

HQ

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Gunnar Red Moon: 190 points.

Wolf Lord
Storm Shield and Wolf Claw
Saga of the Bear
Wolf Tail Talisman

Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 1

Elites

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Wolf Guard: 170

4 Wolf Guard
Thunder Hammer and storm bolter(Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 1)
Wolf Claw and combi-melta (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 2)
Thunder Hammer and combi-melta (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 3)
Wolf Claw and combi-flamer (Accompanies Grey Hunter Squad 4)

Dreadnought: 125

Dreadnought
Plasma Cannon
Twin-linked missile launcher

Troops

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Grey Hunters Squad 1: 170

8 Grey Hunters
Meltagun
Wolf Standard
Rhino

Grey Hunters Squad 2: 155

5 Grey Hunters
Meltagun
Plaserback

Grey Hunters Squad 3: 155

5 Grey Hunter
Meltagun
Plaserback

Grey Hunters Squad 4: 115

5 Grey Hunters
Flamer
Razorback

Heavy Support

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Long Fangs: 140

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
5 Missile Launchers

Long Fangs: 130

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
3 Missile Launchers
2 Heavy Bolters

Long Fangs: 150

Squad Leader and 5 Long Fangs
4 Missile Launchers
1 Plasma Cannon

[Unpronounceable]

40k battle report, 2000pt my Daemons Vs Wraiths Grey Knights.

Wraiths Army summary

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Not sure on the Wargear but the bones of it are:

Librarian, Might of titan, sanctuary
3x10 strike squad 2x2 psycannons 1x2 incinerator
1x10 terminator squad 2x psycannons
Landraider - contains incinerator squad
Dreadknight - Jump pack and sword

I'm sure Wraith can elaborate if he so wishes

My Daemons

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HQ: Bloodthirster; Blessing of the Blood God 255pts
HQ: Great Unclean one; Cloud of Flies 165pts

Elites: BloodCrushersx3; 120pts
Elites: Flamers x4; 140pts
Elites: Fiends x4; 120pts

Troops: Daemonettes x11; 174pts
Troops: Plague Bearers x5; + Icon 100pts
Troops: Plague Bearers x5; + Icon 100pts
Troops: Horrors x6 + bolt; 112pts
Troops: Horrors x6 + bolt; 112pts

Heavy: Daemon Prince of Tzeentch; Breath of Chaos + Boon + Flight 225pts
Heavy: Daemon Prince of Khorne; Might Blessing + Flight + Iron hide 215pts
Heavy: Daemon Prince of Nurgle; Iron hide + Noxious Touch + Cloud 155pts

Be Warned this is more colourful/narrative rather than just the facts, and as such is quite long.

Deployment

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The mission was to be annihilation using the pitched battle deployment. Wraith chose to go second and deployed his army in a line at the back of his zone behind some convinient chest high walls with the dreadknight and land raider taking taking positions on the flanks.

DK --- Strikes -- Terminators -- Strikes -- Land raider

it was at this point that I suspected he wouldn't be moving much.

Turn 1 Daemons

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The Chaos Gods deemed me to have chosen my first wave poorly and I had to field the other half of my army. This consisted of the Tzeentch and Khorne Daemon princes, the Bloodthirster, Fiends, Bloodcrushers and Daemonettes.

I tried to deploy my troops as close as possible while still being in cover/out of sight. The Bloodthirster and Fiends dropping behind some buildings on Wraiths right flank (DK) and the Crushers and Khorne prince dropping on the left flank behind another building. The Tzeentch prince dropped in behind the terminators in a highly risky strategy to decapitate the Grey Knights in the first turn. Again it seemed the gods were against me scattering the Bloodthirster and fiends into sight of the Grey Knights with only a run move to grab partial cover. The Tzeentch prince however landed 'just as planned' and let rip with his powers. The Boon of mutation failed to Gribble the librarian, however the foul winds of chaos did reduce two of his retinue to quivering piles of flesh and armour. Not a great first turn, and now It was time to take a hail of fire from the Greys.

Turn 1 GK

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The only movement was the Dreadknight who teleported to the roof top of the building the Bloodthirster had tried to land behind. Clearly challenging the great beast to a duel to the Death.
The terminator squad turned round and tore the Tzeentch prince to pieces with sustained Bolter and Psycannon fire, his enhanced invulnerable save doing little against the torrent of fire. The two strike squads shot at the exposed fiends and sent the 2 visible beasts back to the warp. The landraider trained it's Lascannons on the Bloodthirster across the battle field but failed to get a clear shot through the rubble strewn battlefield its Lascannons vaporising some nearby bits of masonry.

Turn 2 Daemons

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The Gods continued to test me by only delivering a single unit of plague bearers and the Great Unclean One. The plague bearers dropped behind some hedgerows in the Centre of the battlefield with the hope of using their icons to bring in further reinforcements reliably. The GUO tried to drop where the dreadknight had been giving him the chance to attack the remaining strike squad (who had forgotten to use warpquake) however he scattered and landed behind the squad in range of the terminators for next turns assault phase.

If I was going to do something to rectify this I'd have to resort to drastic actions. With an almighty roar the Bloodthirster leapt into the air and landed on the roof top next to the Dreadknight. The remaining fiends broke from cover and sprinted at full speed towards the nearest strike squad. On the other flank the Khorne Daemon prince flew over the wall he had been sheltering behind and landed next to the nearest strike squad, next to the landraider. The blood crushers lumbered out also but couldn't match the fiends or prince for speed.

In the assault Phase the Bloodthirster charged the Dreadknight, the pilot's excommunication stripped the Bloodthirster of the blessings of his patron diety rendering him vulnerable to the psychic weapons of the Dreadknight. The Bloodthirster inflicted two wounds on the Dreadknight who responded by wounding the beast twice in return. This was going to be a worthy challenge.

The fiends surprised the strike squad with their speed and tore into their flank. The lightning quick halberds of the knights cut down one fiend before it could strike but the other fiend took down two knights in response its claws tearing through Power Armour like paper. The other knights failed to wound the fiend.

On the far flank the Daemon Prince charged the strike squad and cut down 3 Greyknights. The Blessing of Khorne shielded the prince from the force weapons of the Knights who failed to hurt the Daemon. The Knights held their nerve however and didn't flee.

Turn 2 Grey Knights

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The terminators advanced on the GOU the fire from their psycannons tearing into the rotting flesh from the beast but failing to seriously wound him (1W/5), their bolter fire pattered harmlessly of its corpulent frame causing him to chuckle.

The Hatches on the landraider opened and the remaining strike squad charged out to help their brothers against the daemon prince. The landraider fired its Lascannons onto the approaching Bloodcrushers and brought down one of the
lumbering creatures and vaporising its rider.

In combat the Bloodthirster felled the Dreadknight, his axe cleaving through the neck of the pilot, taking the skull of this worthy foe for his master and smashing the machinery behind him. The wreckage falling to the ground below.

The terminators charged the great Nurgle Daemon, the momentum of their advance slowed by the cloud of flies emerging from the open flesh of the monster. The halberds of the knights carved chunks of flesh from the Unclean one leaving him with a single wound. In response the rusting blade of the daemon felled two of the terminators.

The remaining fiend took the life of another knight before being brought down. On the far flank the Daemon prince, outnumbered 17-1 cackled as the puny weapons of the knights failed to break the protection of the Blood God and cut down 2 warriors from the new squad that had just charged him. The knights fought on but were clearly worried by the seeming invincibility of their opponent one of the squads failing to channel their hammerhand power.

Turn 3 Daemons

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The forces of Tzeentch arrived this turn. Two squads of horrors and the flamers tried to materialise next to the strike squad next to the two gerater daemons. However the horrors both missed the battlefield, one being destroyed and the other being redeployed to the far side of the field completely out of harms way.

The flamers however arrived exactly where they were wanted and unleashed their foul sorcery on the strike squad wiping them out completely with the raw stuff of chaos.

The Bloodthirster, flew to the Great Unclean One, not letting him have all the glory of killing the terminators striking down three of them including the librarian. The Great Unclean one felled another two leaving just 2 of them left. The terminators failed to wound either of the great daemons but somehow did not lose their nerve and flee.

On the far flank the Bloodcrushers charged into one of the strike squads fighting the daemon prince but were cut down by halberds before they could attack. The Daemon Prince continued to scythe down the Knights surrounding him but was finally wounded by the butt of a Psycannon, which Khorne did not protect him from, another wound was dealt by a thunderhammer, leaving the knights with some hope.

Turn 3 GK

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With most units either dead or in combat there wasn't much movement or shooting. The Landraider shot at the flamers, as the only target available, and killed one. In the assault phase the Greater Daemons butchered the last of the terminators although one managed to wound the Bloodthirster before he died, leaving him on a single wound.

Things swung back to the Daemon Princes favour on the other side of the field when one of the Justicars fell victim to a some horror of the warp, his head exploding as he tried to cast hammerhand. Once again the prince slaughtered Knights indiscriminately shielded by the will of Khorne. One of the knights squads finally lost their nerve and fled from the combat.

Turn 4 Daemons

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The last of the plague bearers and the Daemon prince of Nurgle arrived this turn, near to the recently fleeing strike squad. All daemons on the field now ran,flew or waddled towards the remaining dozen or so grey knights. Warpfire from the flamers claimed one of the strike squad.

In combat the Khorne Prince broke the last strike squad, but was too busy taking heads to chase them down, as it turned out a grave mistake

Turn 4 Grey Knights

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Being space marines the Grey Knights rallied. The last squad to flee the prince turned and fired on him, and with the help of the landraider, achieved what force sword could not, bringing the champion of Khorne down. The other strike squad fired at the flamers bringing them down.

Turn 5 Daemons

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This was to be the last turn, and it was also the turn I realised that I had never deployed the daemonettes...

The Great unclean one had finally got some momentum going and managed to waddle a full 12" towards the grey knights!

The nurgle prince and Bloodthirster charged into the nearest strike squad and wiped them out completely. Leaving just one and a land raider on the field.

Turn 5 Grey Knights

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The Landraider fired lascannons at the Bloodthirster.. he shrugged them off. Heavy bolter shells pattered harmlessly off his warp forged armour, but then one grey knight fired true with his storm bolter, the bolt finding some small hole in the iron plating and felling the Daemon

Final score, GK 7 - Daemons 5. The Emperors finest had fought bravely and managed to hold off the Daemonic incursion... for now

On the whole it went a lot better than expected. Blessing of the blood god proved to be worth every point, and I was helped by Wraith forgetting about warp quake (or favouring hammerhand... who knows what mysteries lie in his mind). I've realised that short of the Bloodthirster, I have nothing to reliably kill Av14 so may be adding some token screamers, unless someone can suggest better anti tank?

[The_Final_Stand]

New Necron Advance orders are up.

The short version is that they are all very complex looking to put together.

[Wraith]

Wraiths Army summary

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Not sure on the Wargear but the bones of it are:

Librarian, Might of titan, sanctuary
+ 3x Servo Skulls and also The Shrouding
3x10 strike squad 2x2 psycannons 1x2 incinerator
+ All 3 Squads had 1x Daemonhammer too.
1x10 terminator squad 2x psycannons
+ 2x Daemonhammers

On the whole it went a lot better than expected. Blessing of the blood god proved to be worth every point, and I was helped by Wraith forgetting about warp quake (or favouring hammerhand... who knows what mysteries lie in his mind).

I looked it up; Warp Quake has to be used at the start of my Movement phase, so my big mistake was allowing the Daemons to go first. After the first turn I don't think it would have made too much difference, as the only thing to arrive even remotely in range was the Great Unclean One.

That I completely forgot to place my Servo-Skulls (irrelevant) or use Sanctuary when the Prince of Tzeentch landed next to the Librarian (incredibly helpful!).... Yeah, that was just me, sucking.

Otherwise, it was a good, fun game - by Turn 3 I thought I was going to get tabled, since there didn't seem to be any way of getting around the Blessing of the Blood God short of beating him to death with bare fists (2++ versus Force weapons, against Grey Knights? ) but then I failed the two moral tests that I needed to fail and it swung back my way. I couldn't have planned it better if I tried.

[Tome]

I'm wondering, however, the best place to get combi-weapons, without resorting to my crappy knife skills. Plaserbacks, I think I can manage, but combi-weapons may be too fiddly.

I know that the SM Captain kit has some (possibly one of each?). Maybe have a look around on some bitz sites?

Apart from that, I remember seeing a third party company that had made some.

[bluntpencil]

I know that the SM Captain kit has some (possibly one of each?). Maybe have a look around on some bitz sites?

Apart from that, I remember seeing a third party company that had made some.

Cool, the SM Captain also has a Power Claw.

Unfortunately, he doesn't look very Wolfy, but the conversions would likely be easy, since he's plastic.

That being said (modelling and such belonging elsewhere), how does the list look?

[Timberwolf]

So, in an effort to get a bit of a different experience in and because the models are cool, I'm starting a bit of a Dark Eldar Army up. I've no experience with either the Dark or Light pointyheads so I'd welcome some input on my 1000 point basic list. There is a little bit of a "I really want to use this model" with the Razorwing.

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Archon - This one is possibly a bit too tooled up. - 150

Soul Trap, Agoniser
Blast pistol
Shadow field
Ghostplate Armour
Haywire Grenades

Troops

Wyches x9 220
Hekatrix
Agoniser
Shardnet
Haywire Grenades
Raider - Flickerfield

Wyches x 10 230
Hekatrix
Agoniser
Shardnet
Haywire grenades
Raider - Flickerfield

Kabalite warriors x 10 130
Dark Lance
Blaster

Heavy Support

Ravager - Flickerfield 115

Razorwing - Flickerfield 155

[Sila Prirode]

So, in an effort to get a bit of a different experience in and because the models are cool, I'm starting a bit of a Dark Eldar Army up. I've no experience with either the Dark or Light pointyheads so I'd welcome some input on my 1000 point basic list. There is a little bit of a "I really want to use this model" with the Razorwing.

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Archon - This one is possibly a bit too tooled up. - 150

Soul Trap, Agoniser
Blast pistol
Shadow field
Ghostplate Armour
Haywire Grenades

Troops

Wyches x9 220
Hekatrix
Agoniser
Shardnet
Haywire Grenades
Raider - Flickerfield

Wyches x 10 230
Hekatrix
Agoniser
Shardnet
Haywire grenades
Raider - Flickerfield

Kabalite warriors x 10 130
Dark Lance
Blaster

Heavy Support

Ravager - Flickerfield 115

Razorwing - Flickerfield 155

In my limited experience:
Shadowfield is good on it's own, you don't need Ghostplate also. And you shouldn't need Haywire with that many anti-tank on vehicles. Also, where do Warriors and Archon go? Because I'm not seeing any transport for Warriors, or I am reading the list wrong.
As for a bit optimization, Wyches are better in 5-spam. You take the same upgrades as now, but only 5 models, and transport for each unit. That way you maximize the Lances/Shards, and if you really need 10 Wyches in combat, just send two of them at the same target (also double Shardnet and Agoniser in that way).

[Cheesegear]

So, must be time to make a Kill Team. Or something. There's a ladder or something for this month and I plan to break it.

Now, the key phrase for Kill Team (and the most breakable rule) is that if a model can make multiple attacks - including shooting - he can direct them at different targets. For combat this makes sense. It's what you do in a normal game when you're Assaulting two units at the same time. But, shooting? Suddenly every model turns into a Long Fang. In fact, better. Because Long Fangs only have a maximum of two targets. This rule is made to be broken. Hard.

Kabalite Trueborn (x10) - 200 Points
x6 Shardcarbines, x2 Blasters, x2 Splinter Cannons

Shardcarbines are Assault 3, the Splinter Cannon models are Relentless with Heavy 6. Now, remember, every model is treated as a seperate unit. What happens when a Dark Eldar unit kills an enemy unit? That's right! Your Splinter Cannon models should start with Relentless, and gain FNP and Furious Charge on the first turn. Hopefully you should kill two models with six shots. Each.
...I think I broke the format.

Plague Marines are another good one. Since they start the game with FNP, give some Plasmagun models Relentless and start popping off plasma shots at Terminators.

...I think that's all I've got. inb4 Blood Angels. A Sanguinary Priest is 50 points, and since every unit is seperate, the Independent Character rule doesn't work properly and expect your Priest to get shot at immediately.

[Sila Prirode]

Kabalite Trueborn (x10) - 200 Points
x6 Shardcarbines, x2 Blasters, x2 Splinter Cannons

Shardcarbines are Assault 3, the Splinter Cannon models are Relentless with Heavy 6. Now, remember, every model is treated as a seperate unit. What happens when a Dark Eldar unit kills an enemy unit? That's right! Your Splinter Cannon models should start with Relentless, and gain FNP and Furious Charge on the first turn. Hopefully you should kill two models with six shots. Each.
...I think I broke the format.

If I got this correctly, you are giving Relentless to them with Kill Team special rule that gives USD to units? If so, I think you can't give more the same rule to two guys (I think, I'm away from books).
For the record, our mini-tournament was won by DE player. Warriors with Venom. Venom has double Cannons as a setup. 12 shots per turn that can be divided as you choose on AV with at least 5+ Cover was too much for almost anyone. Especially because you can take out their anti-tank in first time most of the time.
Second guy was Scouts and RifleDread. Really good AV with nice weapons (Assault Cannon and Autocannon, both anti-tank and anti-infantry, spreadable).

[DaedalusMkV]

Sorry for the long delay, I've been away from the internet for the last few days. Let's get on to the meat of the Chaos book.

Troops:

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Chaos Space Marines:
The book's namesake unit, and all-around one of the best choices you've got. They're Troops to boot, which is... Well, a good portion of why they're good. With Bolters, Close Combat Weapons and pistols your basic Chaos Marine is plenty good at both shooting and assault, but like basically everything else in the book prefers to get into assault by some margin. Because you aren't allowed to take your second special weapon until you have 10 members, you'll usually want to use them in minimum-sized units of five or units of 10 (or more, if you feel the need to footslog them around). Generally speaking, ten Chaos Marines with two special weapons and an Aspiring Champion with a Power Fist mounted in a Rhino is going to be a very strong backbone for any CSM army. Meltaguns are probably the best choice for special weapons, since your Bolters and whole mess of Close Combat attacks are more than capable of mowing down all but the toughest, most dangerous of infantry. Even more importantly, and a key element of my own army's tactics, you can use the meltaguns to destroy an enemy transport vehicle, then assault the unit inside to wipe them out. You should be somewhat wary of Icons, since they get very expensive very quickly in exchange for turning you into a pale imitation of proper Cult troops. Icon of Chaos Glory is the easy choice, making it extremely unlikely your unit will ever fail a Leadership test while being quite cheap. Slaanesh is great for killing other Marines, since you'll be able to hit them before they hit back, and isn't too pricey. Khorne is getting expensive, but turns your unit into a deadly meat-grinder that will tear through all but the toughest of enemies. Nurgle and Tzeentch are absurdly expensive, so I'd never recommend actually taking them.

Plague Marines:
The other all-rounder Troops Choice, Plague Marines are about half again as expensive as a normal Chaos Marine in exchange for increased Toughness, Feel no Pain and Defensive Grenades. Oh, and Fearless, which is always nice. Generally speaking, Plague Marines are extremely difficult for most opponents to kill; their high Toughness and Feel no Pain make them far harder to eliminate with anti-infantry guns than even Terminators, and their Blight Grenades make assault a losing proposition for most opponents. In exchange, their own killing abilities are no better than a regular Chaos Marine, even slightly inferior thanks to their lower I, which means that they'll have almost as much trouble killing the enemy as the enemy does killing them. Unlike normal Chaos Marines, you don't need to take 10 of them to gain the full wargear allotment, which means that you usually won't want to take large squads. 7 is ideal, and Nurgle's favoured number besides, costing slightly more than 10 generic Chaos Marines. Once again, a Champion with a Power Fist is always a good investment, and you should be packing a pair of special weapons. Meltaguns are still good choices but Plasma Guns are also excellent, since Plague Marines will generally laugh off Gets Hot rolls and don't care if they get assaulted or not. As a rule, Plague Marines are the best place to stick your deadly Independent Characters, since unlike generic Chaos Marines you'll likely have some extra space in the Rhino, and the character will provide much-needed killing power while the Plague Marines do their thing and refuse to die.

Noise Marines:
Slaaneshi cultists, Noise Marines are theoretically the heavy weapons specialists of the Chaos Troops section, with every member capable of taking powerful Sonic Weapons that are closer in comparison to Heavy Bolters than a normal Bolter. Unfortunately, doing so renders the unit very expensive, at 25 points per model base, plus a whole bunch for your Champion and Blastmaster-toting Marine, and they're no tougher than a generic Marine. They'll put out a ton of firepower, but they'll also die very quickly, which makes them a suboptimal choice in this regard. On the other hand, taking seven or eight of them, equipping the Champion with a Doom Siren (and Power Weapon) and sticking them in a Rhino gives you a unit custom-built to hunt down and kill other Marines, with I5 and an AP3 Flamer. Overall not the best choice in the book, but passable.

Khorne Berzerkers:
Powerful dedicated assault specialists, Khorne Berzerkers get a whole boatload of Attacks in exchange for any hope of being remotely good at shooting. They aren't too pricey for Cult Marines, don't need any upgrades beyond the requisite Champion, and have Furious Charge for slicing and dicing whatever enemies they can get their hands on. Even more than the rest of the book, Berzerkers need transports; A Rhino will do, but a Land Raider is better. If you absolutely must be using a Land Raider, Berzerkers are what you should put inside. Overall, they're pretty straightforwards; charge the enemy infantry, cut them to pieces, rinse and repeat. A solid unit, but somewhat overshadowed by Blood Angels and Grey Knights assault specialists that can do everything they can and more for a pittance more points. Which, now that I think about it, applies to half of this book. *Sigh*

Thousand Sons:
Empty suits of animate armour powered by sorcery, Thousand Sons are slow and expensive but very good at shooting down other Marines thanks to their AP3 Bolters. Notably, their squad leader is mandatory, and must take a psychic power. Doombolt and Winds of Chaos are the obvious choice, being AP3 or better and thus synergizing well in the unit's Marine-killing role, while Bolt of Change is expensive and wastes those AP3 Bolters you're paying through the nose for. An interesting choice is Gift of Chaos; thanks to Mark of Tzeentch you can use it twice per turn, which means that if you have a lot of Sorcerors you can make a very large number of Spawn in a turn and since it targets individual models you can use it to 'snipe' enemy squad leaders and special weapons. I played a proxy game spamming six units of Sons with that power in Rhinos, and by turn five the enemy had no ICs or squad leaders left and was in assault with nearly 20 Spawn. Either way, shell out the extra points for a Rhino; with Slow and Purposeful you'll never make it into Rapid Fire range if you try to footslog. Also, unlike the rest of the Chaos Marines, Thousand Sons are terribly in Close Combat. With only a single attack each and no grenades, you'll always go last on the charge (thanks to Slow and Purposeful) and won't kill much of anything when you aren't charging. Given how many points they cost per model, being worse in combat than a loyalist Tactical Marine is a sad thing. Overall, the Dust Buckets aren't very good. Barring wierd things like Gift of Chaos spam, I'd not suggest taking more than one unit, if that. You'll get more bang for your buck out of generic Chaos Marines or Plague Marines.

Dedicated Transport:

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Chaos Rhino:
The only Dedicated Transport we've got, the only really good thing to say about these is that they're nice and cheap, just like their Loyalist counterparts. Generally speaking you won't want to waste any point on extra upgrades for them, since their only purpose is to close the distance with your enemy and protect your troops inside from a little bit of firepower. That said, Combi-weapons are often a good, inexpensive, investment, so there's no reason not to take them if you've got a few points left over at the end of writing your list. A Rhino with a Havoc Launcher is actually a fairly effective anti-infantry gun platform, but a poor transport. I've seen people take them as transports for dedicated shooting units like Havocs and Noise Marines, then use them as line-of-sight blockers and gun platforms. Not a bad choice, if you don't need a transport for one of your units and want to field a few more tanks.

[Hawkfrost000]

If I got this correctly, you are giving Relentless to them with Kill Team special rule that gives USD to units? If so, I think you can't give more the same rule to two guys (I think, I'm away from books).

This is correct, though he could just give one Slow and Purposeful instead

Last time i did Kill Teams i did a group of wyches in a raider, first supported by trueborn and then on their own.

I came second to a bunch of lootas and slugga boyz they killed my raider.

DM

[Sila Prirode]

This is correct, though he could just give one Slow and Purposeful instead

Last time i did Kill Teams i did a group of wyches in a raider, first supported by trueborn and then on their own.

I came second to a bunch of lootas and slugga boyz they killed my raider.

DM

Oh, I forgot about using S&P to give Relentless. And I actually did that myself for my Chaos Kill team on my Lascannon dude, weird. And yes, if the glance you to death and you lose your transport as DE, it's usually a game over. That the only time our DE guy loses a Kill Team game, if he loses his Venom too early in game, because anti-tank is usually dead in his first turn.

[Renegade Paladin]

If antitank is usually dead in his first turn, his opponent obviously didn't bring enough.

Anyway, our next tournament is 1850 points. Barring Apocalypse (which hardly counts, since then I just throw in everything and the kitchen sink) I've never played over 1500, so I have little confidence I know what I'm doing. I've posted enough 1500 point lists here to give a good idea of what I have and use, I think, but here's my model inventory if anyone has any bright ideas.

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Inventory:

11 heavy weapon teams - 3 autocannon, 6 lascannnon, 2 missile launcher

87 Guardsmen - 4 flamers, 2 heavy flamers, 6 grenade launchers, 3 sniper rifles, 4 plasma guns, 9 meltaguns, 6 vox-casters, 1 standard, 1 medi-pack, 8 sergeants, rest normal

10 Catachan Guardsmen - Sergeant Harker, 2 flamers, 1 meltagun, 6 normal

14 Kasrkin storm troopers - 2 plasma guns, 2 meltaguns, 1 flamer, 1 grenade launcher, 1 sergeant w/ power weapon, 7 normal

4 company commanders (1 power fist, 1 power weapon, 2 basic), astropath, officer of the fleet, master of ordnance, Colour Sergeant Kell

1 techpriest enginseer

6 Chimeras - 4 normal, 1 flamer, 1 heavy bolter turret

1 Leman Russ battle tank - guns left unglued, can switch any sponson/hull mount configuration and between battle cannon and Vanquisher cannon at will

1 Leman Russ Demolisher - guns left unglued, can switch any sponson/hull mount configuration at will. Demolisher cannon and Executioner plasma cannon magnetized; can switch between these at will as well.

2 Hellhounds - turret weapons left unglued on both and hull weapons magnetized on one, can switch to any configuration.

2 Basilisks

1 Manticore rocket launcher

1 Baneblade

IN PROGRESS

Sergeant Bastonne

1 Valkyrie/Vendetta (weapons magnetized)

2 Tauros assault vehicles

1 Tauros Venator

1 Vulture gunship

1 Stormblade

The models after the in progress mark are just that; they're listed in order of closest to completion. So given that inventory, what can I do at that points level? I'm tempted to just take one of my 1500 point mechspam lists and tack 350 points of toys onto it (I'm fond of Harker outflanking in a Chimera with his guys, etc.), but I have a sneaking suspicion that for a competitive tournament it would be better to make an integrated force composition from the ground up. Ideas?

[Borgh]

The aesiest is to just tack something on to your usual list, its only 19% more points after all. Just don't add stuff that won't synergize with the rest of the list and you will be fine.

[Cheesegear]

I've never played over 1500, so I have little confidence I know what I'm doing.

Ultimately, you're Guard. Just keep spamming whatever is already working. As our resident Wraith brought up; More, is more. I got confused reading your list of models. Although I suspect that it's a Guard thing, rather than my simple inability to read a model count.

I'm away from Codex at the moment. So I'm just going to try and remember basics.

I know that you know that Mech Is King. So you're using all your Chimeras. If it was up to me you'd have six Veteran Squads, but you don't have that many Chimeras (if you've also got Command Squads in Chimeras - which you should) and your Infantry Count is hard to read. I see that you've got 9 Meltaguns, so filter those through your Veterans. Probably use those Catachan models with two Flamers, Heavy Flamer and Harker. Or Heavy Flamer and two Meltaguns.

Then give your Command Squads as many Plasmaguns as possible. Giving the Order that makes weapons Twin-Linked to themselves as often as possible. You appear to only have four Plasmaguns anyway. So, that's one Command Squad done. You could probably leave the second squad basic, so while the first Command Squad is killing themselves with plasma fire, or your opponent getting sick of all the AP2, and wrecking them, you can just have your other Command Squad in back not-dying.

Almost immediately I notice that you don't have 3-6 Leman Russ chassies, I'd tell you to fix that immediately, but that doesn't help. So, take both the ones you own. Take both Hellhounds. I'd make them Hellhounds or Bane Wolves. I can't remember what the Melta, Blast variant is called, but I know that Guard don't quite need them if you're doing it right, and cover-busting is far more important to a shooty army like Guard. Hellhounds are good because they insta-gib Guard Command Squads and Dark Eldar. Bane Wolves are good because they kill Marines (Blood Angels excluded) and Grey Knights.

That's all I can really do at this point without a Codex on me. Borgh basically hit it on the head. If you can play 1500 points, you can play higher than that, since at that point it just becomes about who can spam the most stuff - which Guard can do in spades. More is more.

[Renegade Paladin]

When I run two HQs it's usually my plasma command setup and a bare-bones CCS to sit in the back with the infantry for orders. Running all mechanized veterans, though, means there's no blob in the back. I have three more meltaguns I haven't gotten around to building yet.

I have plans for a third Russ hull, but haven't bought it yet. Frankly, I don't squadron vehicles all that much (though I'll make an exception for Tauros assault vehicles, since they ignore Immobilized on 4+ and therefore mitigate the huge problem with squadrons), and superheavies notwithstanding I don't build my army for huge point Apocalypse games, which is why there's not huge amounts of duplication in my heavy support vehicles. The backbone of my list is usually meltavets and a lascannon blob (though I'm starting to move to all veterans again), with some heavy support sprinkled in for fire support.

[Hootman]

Been itching for a game for weeks, and I finally got to play the other day. Yaaaaay.



ORKS VS SISTERS, GO! 1250 points.

Da Boyz

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HQ
Warboss, 150pts
-Warbike, Powerklaw, Cybork Body, Attack Squig

Big Mek, 138pts
-Powerklaw, Shokk Attack Gun, Ammo Runt, 'Eavy Armor, Cybork Body

ELITES
Tankbustas 8, 130pts
-Tankhammer, 2 Bomb Squigs

Lootas 6, 90pts

TROOPS
Shoota Boyz 20, 170pts
-2 Big Shootas, Nob (Powerklaw, 'Eavy Armor)

Shoota Boyz 20, 170pts
-2 Big Shootas, Nob (Powerklaw, 'Eavy Armor)

Grots 18, 64pts
+Runtherd

Grots 18, 64pts
+Runtherd

HEAVY SUPPORT
Battlewagon, 170pts
-Red, Ram, Riggers, Killkannon, Boarding Plank

Big Gunz 2, 52pts
-Kannons, 2 Ammo Runts, 2 Extra Crew

Big Gunz 2, 52pts
-Kannons, 2 Ammo Runts, 2 Extra Crew

TOTAL: 1250 points

Da Goilz

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HQ
Uriah Jacobus

Battle Conclave
-3 Assassins, 2 Crusaders

TROOPS
Battle Sisters 20
-Flamer, Heavy Flamer
+Immolator

Battle Sisters 20
-Flamer, Heavy Flamer
+Immolator

FAST ATTACK
Dominions 5
-2 Flamers, Combiflamer
+Immolator

Dominions 5
-2 Flamers, Combiflamer
+Immolator

HEAVY SUPPORT
Exorcist

I don't remember everything, since I didn't bother to write the whole game down, but here are some highlights.

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Turn 1: My Boyz get to go first. I set up the Mek and Lootas high in a ruin in my Spearhead corner, put my Big Gunz in available cover, and hid my Shootas behind a wall of Grots. Everything that's not toting heavy weapons moves forward, and then it's time for shooting! Yay, Ork shooting!

...Wait, what? ALL of my opponent's Immolators are shaken or stunned? And one EXPLODED? Yeah. That happened. I was very happy with not getting cooked by those TL-Heavy Flamer turrets, and this started a pattern that more or less stayed the whole game.

Turn 2: Jacobus and the Conclave hopped in an Immolator on Turn 1, and I blew it up at the start of my shooting phase. Grots are closest, so they open fire, dealing one wound to Jacobus, but everything else gets covered by saves and FNP. So, in the hope of tying them up for a turn, I decide to try feeding them the grot unit a little at a time. THIS DID NOT WORK. Jacobus was famished, and he and his squad tore them apart. 7 dead, no return kills (Goddamn FNP...), fail Leadership and get swept easily. Whoops--should have let him assault me instead, so he'd definitely tear them apart, and I'd be free to shoot and assault with the Shoota Boyz that were right behind the Grots. Instead, he got to assault the Shoota Boyz....not that that ended up working out for him.

On the bright side, my Biker Boss had left to go get stuck in with some Sisters about a foot away, and he killed 4 with no return wounds all by himself. I love my T5(6) boss, he doesn't give any damns whatsoever. In my opponent's assault phase, the Warboss kills another 4 or 5 ladies and sweeps the rest. Consolidates 6", vroom vroom!

Turn 3: Warboss charges the second squad of Sisters, and wipes them immediately with a Sweep. Oops. Wanted to stay stuck in for my opponent's turn so he couldn't target me with his Exorcist. Oh dear.

Shoota Boyz hold their own against Jacobus, and the second Grot squad hoofs it over a Razorwire Fence (only lost one to Dangerous Terrain) and assault into the fray to bring down Mr. Feel No Pain. Spoiler, they succeed, and spend the next turn trying to kill the two goddamn immortal Crusaders.

The first Dominion squad finally comes in, and kills a few Grots off one of the Big Gun squads, also killing off both Kannons (which is pretty much the only reason the rest of the grots survived). Warboss is taken down 2 wounds by the Exorcist, but his cover save JUST saves him.

Turn 4: Warboss ramps over a church wall with Skilled Rider (Yaaaay, Independent Characters!), lands behind the Exorcist, and wrecks it with his Klaw.

The Dominions cook the rest of the Grots from that Big Gun Krew, but they're the last models on the board...

Turn 5: And then there were none. My Warboss moves away from the edge in case the OTHER Dominions ever decide to show up, and the Tankbustas (no more tanks, Glory Hogs is ignored!) fire at the Dom's at point-blank range and blow them away.

Second Dominion squad comes in automatically...and washes away all of the Tankbustas with a concentrated promethium bath.

Turn 6: Warboss turboboosts over, hoping to get in on the action if the game goes to Turn 7. Big Mek fires his Shokk Attack Gun to try to get all the Doms in one hit...and rolls double 2. "Oops" - Your opponent gets to pick the target. He chooses the Shootas right nearby, but the shot scatters......you guessed it, RIGHT on the Warboss, and nothing else. BUT, since the shot is only S4, it can't break through his mighty T6. Did I mention that I love that T6 yet? The Lootas fired on the Doms and finished the game.

Final: Ork have a Major Victory - Tabling. 11 Kill Points to 4, and I didn't even lose a model until I fed those grots to Jacobus.

I had fun, and so far I think my Anti-Tank Boyz might actually work in future games. The Big Gunz did alright, but I definitely want to bring them up to 3 Kannons and 3 Ammo Runts per unit--they're just so amazingly cheap, I can't NOT do it. The Tankbustas didn't do too much, but I didn't really put them in a position to do anything either, and they lost their ride fairly early. Next game, I need to see if I can get them into the thick of things faster, but without exposing the Battlewagon to too much danger. That will be an interesting balance to attempt to strike--I'll probably need to add a few units that are intended to pull some of the anti-tank fire away from the Tankbustas, but I'm not sure what that would be. Troop Deff Dread? Battlewagon full of Nobs? Either of those could work to some degree.


Addendum: Game 2, 1500 points, same opponent.

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This game didn't go nearly as well--to some extent, I blame the Dawn of War set-up, which really crippled my early use of my anti-tank weapons. I also didn't have a really good place to set up my Lootas, so I ended sticking them in some ruins that (thanks to a REALLY inconveniently placed house) couldn't really fire on anything in their own quadrant, and couldn't reach anything useful in the far quadrant. I really need to work on my unit placement...and I really need to work on getting even MORE Rokkit Boyz. My Big Shootas never seem to accomplish anything, and I'd be glad to lose the extra 18" range that I almost never use in order to have a chance at plinking a tank when I don't have any good infantry targets to blow away with the regular Shootas.

Final: Tie, 1 objective each, but my opponent got about 300 more victory points than I did. Last turn, I was really relying on him failing a Leadership check and falling back off the objective, but no such luck. I wanted to just blow him off it entirely with weight of dakka, but my Lootas were a half-inch out of range. I was...unhappy, to say the least. Oh well. I really need my FLGS to start up its next 40k Tournament so I can play against different armies instead of just taking on Sisters all the time.

On the bright side, I DID help show my friend (finally) that Jacobus and Battle Conclaves are borderline unstoppable if your opponent doesn't have any big shooty units around to wear them down, or a lot of S6+ to dedicate to blasting them to bits. In future games, I think I might actually target this unit first--those Assassins drive me batty with their I6, I can't get an attack in unless I throw a full squad of 20-odd boyz at them (Or a bunch of nobz, who might be interesting to field with Big Choppas and PK's to ignore the FNP).

Game was somewhat less fun, but still kind of amusing. Again, I find that I really want to have a third Kannon in each of the Big Gunz units, and unfortunately my Tankbustas got trapped behind a hillside and then blown up by the Dominions who tank-shocked my Grot/Big Mek squad off the field. That's the last time I forget to use the Runtherd's squig hound to reroll Leadership...

[FireJustice]

Nice report Hootman. As a Ork player now (traded my BT for monies and a huge-but-badly-painted-so-i'm-stripping-and-repainting Ork force)

Yeah, I like big guns (specialy in 1500 or less points) and in my opinion ammo runts x3 are a must. so cheap to give you another go with the beloved BS 3.

I like your list.

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HQ
Warboss, 150pts
-Warbike, Powerklaw, Cybork Body, Attack Squig
Nice. I use Wazdakka Gutsmek in a similar list. hes 30 more points I believe

Big Mek, 138pts
-Powerklaw, Shokk Attack Gun, Ammo Runt, 'Eavy Armor, Cybork Body
You can put him with the big gunz and share Ammo runts, Cool huh?
PS: I dont think he needs a PK at all, if he's in assault he will die... horribly. If you want to put him with the big gunz, I would give Bosspole (shame you can't double re-roll with Squig Rounds).

ELITES
Tankbustas 8, 130pts
-Tankhammer, 2 Bomb Squigs
Internet says tankbustas are bad. I disagree they can be really effective, you just need to learn to use them effectively, what is hard. I believe they need a list built around them, and more than one unit too. I can see something like 6 trukk boyz + 3 Battlewagons with tankbustas + KFF working

Lootas 6, 90pts
Internet seens to love lootas. I agree they can be good. but you are soo screwd in Dawn of War. Heavy weaponry makes you lose another turn of firing. When I use lootas, its or 5 or 15.

TROOPS
Shoota Boyz 20, 170pts
-2 Big Shootas, Nob (Powerklaw, 'Eavy Armor)

Shoota Boyz 20, 170pts
-2 Big Shootas, Nob (Powerklaw, 'Eavy Armor)
I like shoota boyz too. As nobs are not ICs, 'Eavy Armour inst really needed, just avoid alocating wounds on him. Boospole is really a must IMHO. A cool thing is to give a Big Shootas/Rokkit to the nob instead of a boy, netting a extra shoota (hey its two more dice!).

Grots 18, 64pts
+Runtherd

Grots 18, 64pts
+Runtherd

Yes. Yes. Grot screens are darn good. They provide cover and assalt bumps. But as you see, you need to let them assalt you. Also, grots wont get Mob Rule so I would never attack ICs to grots.

HEAVY SUPPORT
Battlewagon, 170pts
-Red, Ram, Riggers, Killkannon, Boarding Plank
[b] Pretty straigh here. I hate killkanon BW. And you list, the main problem this is the only tank, so all oponnet's AT will aim here. And without KFF... it will blow easily.

Big Gunz 2, 52pts
-Kannons, 2 Ammo Runts, 2 Extra Crew

Big Gunz 2, 52pts
-Kannons, 2 Ammo Runts, 2 Extra Crew

TOTAL: 1250 points

If I would run something like your list would be

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HQs
Wazdakka Gutsmek 180
Big Mek (SAG, Ammo runt, Cybork and Eavy Armour) 118

Troops
Shoota Boyz x20 (Nob, PK, Boospole, 2x Rokkits) 180
Shoota Boyz x20 (Nob, PK, Boospole, 2x Rokkits) 180
Grotzx15 (+Runterd) 55
Grotzx15 (+Runterd) 55

Heavy Support
Big Gunz x3 (cannons, 2x extra cew, 3x ammo runt) 90
Big Gunz x3 (cannons, 2x extra cew, 3x ammo runt) 90
Big Gunz x3 (cannons, 2x extra cew, 3x ammo runt) 90

212 points left
3x Deff koptas (TL rookits+buzzsaw!, in individual squads) or
6x Warbuggies (TL rookits, in squadrons of two) or

or 20x shoota boyz , and 10 more grots/extra crew to the big gunz
or even 10x lootas (in two squads of five) plus extra Grotz x15/extra crew
or Warbikes x7 w/ Nob, PK and BP (as troops!)

[Timberwolf]

So, big game (4000 points worth each) tomorrow against probably the best player I know. He's bringing Anggrath and however much other Chaos cuddles he can arrange for. I have no idea what he owns and I'm anticipating this going really well.

I am bringing my poor, abused little Warhound, an Archangel Skyforce (Yay Terminators, Furioso's and Flyer rules Stormravens !), Razorspam MSU Assault Marines, A landraider Crusader full of Death Company, Lemartes and a Librarian and a deckchair squad of Scout snipers.

I just know his first move will be to deep strike a load of combi melta Chosen Terminators right next to my Warhound, if it's on the board at the time, so I'm figuring bubble wrap it in my stupidly cheap transports to try and force him outside the superkill range of the meltas at the very least. I'll gladly lose a cheapy Razorback to keep my Warhound safe, especially as it's the only thing I have capable of really laying the hurt on Anggrath at range. Here's where he has a load of Shadowswoards or something equally fun.

[Cheesegear]

So, big game (4000 points worth each) tomorrow against probably the best player I know. He's bringing Anggrath and however much other Chaos cuddles he can arrange for.

Even on a good day, I can't figure out how to down Anger Wrath (what? You didn't see that?). To drop a T8, 8 Wound Gargantuan with a 4+ Invulnerable, I'd probably be bringing at least 16 Lascannons, about the same amount of Meltaguns and Lysander with 30 Hammernators. But, that's my normal Apoc army and is built around Lysander and 30 Hammernators, which is kind of amazing.

Sometimes I wonder how Hector Rex did it, and I'm forced to conclude that it all came down to a Daemonbane (Nemesis weapon) roll and An'ggrath was removed from play, and Rex had to've charged for his Psyk-Out Grenades to work and take the Daemon down to I1. Then An'ggrath had to have rolled amazingly poorly or Rex made all his Invulnerables as he's only T3 with no Eternal Warrior.

[bluntpencil]

Even on a good day, I can't figure out how to down Anger Wrath (what? You didn't see that?). To drop a T8, 8 Wound Gargantuan with a 4+ Invulnerable, I'd probably be bringing at least 16 Lascannons, about the same amount of Meltaguns and Lysander with 30 Hammernators. But, that's my normal Apoc army and is built around Lysander and 30 Hammernators, which is kind of amazing.

Sometimes I wonder how Hector Rex did it, and I'm forced to conclude that it all came down to a Daemonbane (Nemesis weapon) roll and An'ggrath was removed from play, and Rex had to've charged for his Psyk-Out Grenades to work and take the Daemon down to I1. Then An'ggrath had to have rolled amazingly poorly or Rex made all his Invulnerables as he's only T3 with no Eternal Warrior.

I'm guessing Mephiston, with Sanguine Sword and his force sword, might do some damage? He certainly wouldn't win, but he'd put on the hurt and claw his points back, most likely, especially if he had shooty guys softening it up first, right?

What's Anger Wrath's Initiative?

And how do Hellfire rounds affect giant gribblies? Wounding on 2+? Yes please?

[Cheesegear]

I'm guessing Mephiston, with Sanguine Sword and his force sword, might do some damage? He certainly wouldn't win, but he'd put on the hurt and claw his points back, most likely, especially if he had shooty guys softening it up first, right?

That could work. An'ggrath is only I5.

And how do Hellfire rounds affect giant gribblies?

They don't. An'ggrath is a Gargantuan. Poison weapons wound on 6s, and 6s only.

[bluntpencil]

A double charge with Mephiston and about half a dozen jump packers with thunder hammers could do it reasonably cheaply, especially if a Priest is giving Furious Charge to the Hammers. Our giant daemon can either swat Mephiston after getting chewed on by him, or prevent the Hammers from striking him at I1.

If the Hammers have storm shields, even better. Either he kills Mephiston, or kills the Hammers, and leaves himself open to S10 hits.

Death Company Dreadnoughts are also a possibility, but rely on luck, Furious Charge and Blood Talons. Cheap, though! However, they'd probably be wasted on him, when they could be tearing all his little Berzerker buddies a new one.