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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    SirFredgar's Avatar

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    Default Mage: The Ascension Help

    Okay, I'm not completely new to WoD, but there are plenty of nuiances to the system and it's history that I'm not sure about.

    I hear the terms New World of Darkness, Old World of Darkness, And Revised being floated around a lot. What is The Ascension?

    Second, I'm putting on a game shortly, and one of my players is asking to play a Sorcerer. I guess it's cause paradox scares him. I'm concerned that this will basically force him to play second fiddle to the tradition mages... as well as make my life more difficult as to explaining why this sorcerer is involved with a cabal of mages to begin with.

    Any advice on the system or my situation is definitely appreciated.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    I was magically yanked out of my bed by a Demon Lord, and deposited into a huge dungeon with three strangers. None of them were pyromaniacs :(

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFredgar View Post
    I hear the terms New World of Darkness, Old World of Darkness, And Revised being floated around a lot. What is The Ascension?
    Ascension is oWoD. The nWoD game about Mages is called Awakening.

    Revised is the third edition of the oWoD line.

    ... as well as make my life more difficult as to explaining why this sorcerer is involved with a cabal of mages to begin with.
    That's rather simple. Most traditions have Sorcerers among their members. Virtual Adepts and Euthanatos being the exception. Note that Mages usually can not determine with certainty whether a person is awakened. That requires Spirit 5.

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    SirFredgar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 1of3 View Post
    Ascension is oWoD. The nWoD game about Mages is called Awakening.

    Revised is the third edition of the oWoD line.
    Thanks! But I'm still hazy. Is Ascension a revised book?

    That's rather simple. Most traditions have Sorcerers among their members. Virtual Adepts and Euthanatos being the exception. Note that Mages usually can not determine with certainty whether a person is awakened. That requires Spirit 5.
    Can you tell me the source of the bolded statement. I see that Spirit 5 allows you to see avatars, but I figured someone's resonance would play into that as well. I mean, you leave a magical foot print on everything you do, so wouldn't that be a telltale sign? Since I'm still studying core, I'm not familiar with sorcerers yet (moving on to splat books next week), but I understand all of their effects are static. Meaning, they can only do 1 "spell" over and over, and I figured that would immediately set them apart from an Awakened that can varry the effects in a given sphere.
    Last edited by SirFredgar; 2012-04-07 at 03:33 PM.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    I was magically yanked out of my bed by a Demon Lord, and deposited into a huge dungeon with three strangers. None of them were pyromaniacs :(

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFredgar View Post
    Thanks! But I'm still hazy. Is Ascension a revised book?
    Mage: Ascension was published as 1st, 2nd and 3rd (a.k.a. 2nd Revised).


    Can you tell me the source of the bolded statement.
    Sorcerers do have resonance on their character sheet.
    http://mrgone.rocksolidshells.com/pd...d_Editable.pdf

    As for the relations of Awakenend and Non-Awakened members of the Tradtions, there might be stuff in Guide to the Trads and the invidual Trad books, but I can't say exactly where. GttTrads would be my first tip.

    Sorcerers indeed cannot improvise spells, but how can you tell the difference between someone inherently incapable of a feat, and someone with the unshown potential to do so? You might get an idea after you have spent some time together. Also note that Awakened are not assumed to be able to cast any spell they could according to the Sphere dot descriptions.

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 1of3 View Post
    Also note that Awakened are not assumed to be able to cast any spell they could according to the Sphere dot descriptions.
    Yeah, this I figured. You are allowed to start with a certain number of "rotes" (my discretion to the number, I think), and these are the "spells" your character knows. However, I was under the impression that any mage can cast outside of a rote, but it becomes more difficult to do so.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    I was magically yanked out of my bed by a Demon Lord, and deposited into a huge dungeon with three strangers. None of them were pyromaniacs :(

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    Orc in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Oh, that's not what I meant. I was more talking about the individual mage's paradigm. Certain things that are possible with the rules might be incomprehensible to an individual mage. It's up to the player what exactly those restrictions are, but it's useful to keep in mind.

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    SirFredgar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Quote Originally Posted by 1of3 View Post
    Oh, that's not what I meant. I was more talking about the individual mage's paradigm. Certain things that are possible with the rules might be incomprehensible to an individual mage. It's up to the player what exactly those restrictions are, but it's useful to keep in mind.
    Oh, yes. I know that a mage's paradigm basically defines how they use magic, and what their beliefs are. I never really thought about, but it makes sense that this would also exclude certain effects... after all, if you don't beleive something is possible, then for you; it isn't.
    78% of DM's started their first campaign in a tavern. If you're one of the 22% that didn't, copy and paste this into your signature.

    I was magically yanked out of my bed by a Demon Lord, and deposited into a huge dungeon with three strangers. None of them were pyromaniacs :(

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    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    One thing I want to note is that it the books contradict each other at times. I think part of it is unrevised or version 1 stuff getting in v2 revised. I think in the core v2 revised book it both says that you can use a rote on anything in line-of-sight, and in another place says you need Correspondence 2 to cast something on someone/thing you aren't actually touching. So choose what works for your game.

    Quote Originally Posted by SirFredgar View Post
    Second, I'm putting on a game shortly, and one of my players is asking to play a Sorcerer. I guess it's cause paradox scares him. I'm concerned that this will basically force him to play second fiddle to the tradition mages... as well as make my life more difficult as to explaining why this sorcerer is involved with a cabal of mages to begin with.

    Any advice on the system or my situation is definitely appreciated.
    There is a book on Sorcerers, I think just called Sorcerer (though I could be way off), and most of the books for the individual Traditions have some sorcerer spells. Sorcerers are WAY weaker than mages, though. It's not just that their magic is static and less versatile, but it's weaker. Forces 2 can probably do more damage than any sorcery simply by increasing an existent force. Another example is that Spirit 2 allows you to call a spirit. There's a sorcery path that is just about calling spirits, letting you call stronger ones as you gain proficiency.
    If they want to avoid Paradox, I recommend looking at psychics (same book.) There's still limited in versatility and weaker, but not as weak.

    Both sorcerers and psychics work with the Traditions, so plot-wise it makes sense for them to work together. Each Tradition has a different way of viewing their sorcerers. Some, like Dreamspeakers and Akashi, barely acknowledge a difference if they even do. Others, like Hermetics, think mages should be in charge and sorcerers should serve like other acolytes. Only mages have the sparkly aura, so Spirit 2 alone can detect a mage as opposed to a sorcerer. Sorcerers have mundane, human auras (unless this is contradicted in some book.) Also, using true magick is detectable as such through Prime; static magic either isn't or looks different, depending on how it read it.

    I think the VAs do have 'techno-sorcerers', like the Technocracy does. Since in mage, the Consensus shapes what is possible, sorcery is things that use to be mundane but now only work through loopholes. As technology got believed in and eventually became true, things previously done through sorcery became real. Really advanced technology is probably actually techno-sorcery.

    Yeah, this I figured. You are allowed to start with a certain number of "rotes" (my discretion to the number, I think), and these are the "spells" your character knows. However, I was under the impression that any mage can cast outside of a rote, but it becomes more difficult to do so.
    I think this was the case in earlier versions, but in v2 revised, I don't think it is anymore. A mage with Spirit 1 can do all the rotes possibly by Spirit 1, if it's in their paradigm. Paradigm does limit, but a 'intelligent' (or 'min-maxing', depending on you view it) player can figure out a way to do almost anything in their paradigm. A Hermetic has spells he chant, a Chorister prays for it, a Son of Ether builds some machine or has some weird omnitool. The only Tradition I have a problem working with is the Virtual Adepts, but even their Reality Hacker Tradition can just code anything to happen; it's essentially the same as chanting a spell, just with your fingers on a keyboard.

    It is believable, though, that some mages haven't figured out all they can do, or their mentors haven't taught them all the spells. If you want to limit the versatility of your players, limiting rotes known is a way to do this. It could allow good roleplaying opportunities.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGirl

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    Half the fun of that game is figuring out how a particular effect could consistently be achieved through your paradigm without it feeling strained. This should also help in reducing paradox, I feel.

    I.e. the player should spend time detailing that a particular Sumerian demon was said to have providence over war, draw its sigil to invoke it, etc, then explain how this should manifest as their now-hallowed gun tends to strike at the exact right spot, doing more damage. Generally, adapting the effect to the paradigm makes the outcome less flashy and paradox-prone, at least if you go for paradigms that match occult stereotypes from history, i.e. John Constantine rather than Gandalf.

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    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Devil

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    Default Re: Mage: The Ascension Help

    As long as the player knows up front that the sorcerer is going to be pretty small potatoes in a game full of Awakened mages, and as long as you OK it, and take that character into account when designing your story, it will be fine.

    That being said, Sorcerer characters can become very nasty pieces of work if they're prepared. Both the Alchemy path and Enchantment path allow a character to create items that mimic other creature's supernatural abilities to a limited degree. Alchemy 5 can duplicate any 3rd level power and Enchantment 4 can duplicate any 2nd level power. That opens up a lot of options for a powerful and creative sorcerer.

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