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  1. - Top - End - #271
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    Raziere, an individual Raksha has all the power of an entire nation at their disposal. With the Cup, an Entertainer may entrance entire communities into depending on what is effectively snake oil, and offering up their very minds and souls to the Raksha for just another fix. With the Ring, a Worker may forge entire cities where there was once nothing, are create devices of perfection that would make a Twilight soil himself with sheer envy. With the Staff, entire nations can be raised from a whim, ready to fight and die for their master so that she doesn't need to lift a finger when the Wyld Hunt comes for her. With the Sword, armies are lead to glorious victory, and all of the world trembles before the raw might that Dragon-Bloods would be lucky to achieve with Excellencies.

    And that's in Creation, where they are weakest.
    and die when a Celestial comes along and decides all my pretty stuff would look better on him and his super-combat powers.

    but then again, 2.5 errata is coming soon, so I guess PD's won't be needed as much soon….so I guess I'll be able to play Raksha, once that errata hits…any day now….
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    and die when a Celestial comes along and decides all my pretty stuff would look better on him and his super-combat powers.

    but then again, 2.5 errata is coming soon, so I guess PD's won't be needed as much soon….so I guess I'll be able to play Raksha, once that errata hits…any day now….
    You can still play a Raksha. You just have to be smart enough, like everyone else, not to antagonize people who can destroy you. Raksha have to be even more careful because of the whole Balorian Crusade, and trying to turn all of Creation into the Wyld.

    Despite what the fans might think, a starting Solar still has to be careful of getting killed. A starting circle of Solars isn't going to be breaking into the Jade Pleasure Dome to force Sol to stop ignoring his Temperance, or going off to kill the Mask of Winters. The numbers might be there, but you still have the issue of all the other factors and fluff.
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  3. - Top - End - #273
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Solars? who said anything about Solars? any Sidereal or Lunar with a PD is more combat-ready than the most optimized Raksha, sure they are not as strong, and Sidereals are mostly busy, but the Lunars are there to specifically watch for me and are shapeshifters who eat my peoples.
    and when the Sidereals aren't busy, they are scary super-martial artists who want to defend their precious Loom that hates me, that and said Sidereals have faction-neutral Raksha-Nazi Nazri on their side man, y'know the crazy dude who is obsessed with killing my buddies and destroying their Freeholds with no Bronze-Gold faction politics to hold him back man. not cool.
    I bet them Independent Sidereals are going "Heil Nazri!" saluting to his nonexistent little mustache! We will remember the Rakshacaust! The Scarlet Empress firing her Sword of Creation was totally the Rakshacaust….planned by NAZRI!
    But worry not! I will soon take on the story of a hero who will kill Nasri the Nazi! The victims of the Rakshacaust will be avenged upon this anti-fae fate-hitler!
    Hey, me killing Nasri with a Fair folk would make a good comedy short story don't you think? [/has totally lost track of what he originally was talking about and now in full Raksha mode]
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    ......

    Are you...

    Are you seriously equating independent Sidereals to the German Nazi party? Raz.... I honestly don't think I can ever take a post made by you seriously again.
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  5. - Top - End - #275
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    that was the point of the view of an ignorant Raksha who misconstrued a lot of things. they are in many ways insane after all, who said the Raksha got any of the right info? They don't have their own history right, what makes you think they have anyone else's history right either?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    and die when a Celestial comes along and decides all my pretty stuff would look better on him and his super-combat powers.
    Not really. Nobody is better at running the heck away than Ring-shapers, Cup and Staff can talk Celestials down long enough to either live another day or pull a trick, and a Sword Shaper with some very basic selections has a dice pool of 20 before Charm activations and an army of millions that'll grind down any Celestial until they die or retreat. Just evoke the Extras sword shaping weapon in Creation, it isn't even an Artifact.

    Also, Raziere, most Raksha have never heard of Nazri, so your pun is illogical in addition to being tasteless.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    oh, its tasteless….sorry….

    and eh? you can invoke shaping actions in Creation? I thought shaping weapons were just for-Wyld combat.

    edit: Checked GWM, turns out you can pull in Extras into Creation, along with a few other limited shaping weapons.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2012-02-20 at 03:47 AM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Mind, this is just general. And I love stories where they break out of the roles defined for them by the universe. I like playing an Alchemical who decides to lead, an infernal who rejects the yozis, a ronin who defects from heaven for his convictions, or even a solar whose loyalties lead him to give up his direct power. But I enjoy it because in my mind it IS playing against type, and so forms basis for conflict and through conflict story.
    So you basically detest those who are entitled with leadership. I'm the exact opposite, even if I don't play the leader roles to their full scale. And in a game about consequences, deciding on the fates of many under you is quite appropriate. All exalts get that, to a point.

    Just remember that the entitlement is justified. A person just wouldn't exalt in the first place if it didn't have in it the qualifying factors.
    ================
    Lord Raziere, I understand your point that "infinite possibilities" should be infinite, not "infinite under the exalts". (though that would also be genuinely infinite).

    Remember that the last time the Wyld created something that powerful...Creation happened.

    No one here will tell you that didn't happen again, so...feel free.
    Last edited by Andreaz; 2012-02-20 at 07:25 AM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    So you basically detest those who are entitled with leadership. I'm the exact opposite, even if I don't play the leader roles to their full scale. And in a game about consequences, deciding on the fates of many under you is quite appropriate. All exalts get that, to a point.

    Just remember that the entitlement is justified. A person just wouldn't exalt in the first place if it didn't have in it the qualifying factors.
    ================
    Lord Raziere, I understand your point that "infinite possibilities" should be infinite, not "infinite under the exalts". (though that would also be genuinely infinite).

    Remember that the last time the Wyld created something that powerful...Creation happened.

    No one here will tell you that didn't happen again, so...feel free.
    No, I detest those who don't realize that as big as they are there are larger concerns at work. Deciding fate is a whole thing in exalted, yes. I just feel the decision should weigh in with something other than "I whim it so."

    Besides, who gets to say what the qualifying factors for leadership should be? Are you suggesting that Desus, say, was a good pick for unfettered power over the general population or else he wouldn't have exalted? Everyone who exalts deserves it, as the core book says, but the conditions for "deserving exaltation" and those for deserving anything else are not the same.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Just remember that the entitlement is justified. A person just wouldn't exalt in the first place if it didn't have in it the qualifying factors.
    Actually, one of the key details about Exaltation is that it doesn't look for people who deserve it, but rather people who would use it to its fullest extent, including people like Panther, Arianna, and Desus who are terrible Great Curse or no. The only people who actually earn their power are redeemed Abyssals, and of course it gets boring when everyone decides to rebel against their dark and horrible masters. The average Solar isn't necessarily any less of a monster than the average Infernal, and given that Infernals are literally mimicking the thought processes of alien titans, that says something. Not to mention that there are only 900 Celestial shards, and being designed for war, their parameters for choosing a new host are something like "pick the most acceptable target within a day's travel."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    700 celestial exaltations Gensh.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Draken View Post
    700 celestial exaltations Gensh.
    Why do the Maidens always have to make things so difficult?

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Panther's real problem seems to be the fandom image of him summarized by the "What the Christ :Punch:" images.

    Arianna's problem is that her writer really didn't read the setting before nailing down her backstory.

    And Deus? He actually, seriously, wasn't that bad. Oh, he was certainly bad to his wife, but that's a very personal thing(I'm not discounting it, except to the extent that it makes him a horrible solar). Besides that, he was actually a pretty exemplary solar.

    No, the more horrible solars, if you want to look for them, are ones like and Salina. Re-writing the universe without supervision, because of some overriding goal. That's the kind of thing that instigated the great Prophecy.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    A few thousand! Alchemical are Celestial level too.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Actually, one of the key details about Exaltation is that it doesn't look for people who deserve it, but rather people who would use it to its fullest extent, including people like Panther, Arianna, and Desus who are terrible Great Curse or no. The only people who actually earn their power are redeemed Abyssals, and of course it gets boring when everyone decides to rebel against their dark and horrible masters. The average Solar isn't necessarily any less of a monster than the average Infernal, and given that Infernals are literally mimicking the thought processes of alien titans, that says something. Not to mention that there are only 900 Celestial shards, and being designed for war, their parameters for choosing a new host are something like "pick the most acceptable target within a day's travel."
    I never said anything about "deserving" in the sense you give. The moral sense. The sense in which people make decisions that make the world a better place through altruistic drive.


    I said they are entitled to it because the entities that give them such powers look for qualifiers that include the ability and capability of using them.



    =====
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    No, I detest those who don't realize that as big as they are there are larger concerns at work. Deciding fate is a whole thing in exalted, yes. I just feel the decision should weigh in with something other than "I whim it so."

    Besides, who gets to say what the qualifying factors for leadership should be? Are you suggesting that Desus, say, was a good pick for unfettered power over the general population or else he wouldn't have exalted? Everyone who exalts deserves it, as the core book says, but the conditions for "deserving exaltation" and those for deserving anything else are not the same.

    The qualifying factors were decided by Autochthon, Gaia and the Incarna. It's not a matter of them being right. It's what happened.
    And yes, Desus was an excellent pick. He wielded his power to its fullest. He fought enemies of Creation. He did make millions of lives better.
    Last edited by Andreaz; 2012-02-20 at 02:26 PM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Lord Raziere, I understand your point that "infinite possibilities" should be infinite, not "infinite under the exalts". (though that would also be genuinely infinite).

    Remember that the last time the Wyld created something that powerful...Creation happened.

    No one here will tell you that didn't happen again, so...feel free.
    *lightbulb*
    This suddenly gives me a great idea: Reborn of Shantara

    Imagine basically somewhere out in the Wyld, is a world where the Element of Air is like the central pole of Earth. Imagine that it has various islands and continents floating around in a great expansive sky, and that it has powerful heroes called the Reborn who were once normal mortals, but were sacrificed in a ritual known as the Rebirth where they tasted death before feasting upon a second life.
    Imagine that is only one god for each island, who represents every single thing on that island as well the island itself. These gods are the only ones capable of carrying out the Rebirth ritual and thus creating the Reborn.
    However, these gods are not reliable. For sometimes war happens on these flying continents, and the god therefore becomes schizophrenic, with multiple personalities, thus with their erratic behavior they Rebirth people to fight on both sides. The gods are gods of everything on their island- even the contradictory things.
    As for the Reborn, they are not the Reborn of the god, they are a Reborn of something, like Reborn of Fire, Reborn of Storms, Reborn of Bravery, and so on and so forth.
    But there are also Fair Folk coming in with their own islands and air boats, causing trouble to happen and of course the Reborn are far from united. Furthermore, the islands positions are not fixed. They go where the wind blows them, and sometimes they crash into each other, causing horrible disasters.
    Furthermore great storms routinely blow throughout Shantara, the weather being erratic and dangerous throughout the entire sky. Sky Pirates also raid and ravage what they can just to survive.
    However the Gods are hungry for power, and to get more power, they need more landmass. So the scheme to unite all the flying continents and islands into one landmass and fight for who will be the God of Everything.
    This is not a good thing. A God of Everything would have no need for the Reborn and would only consider the Reborn a threat. Furthermore, the God of Everything would be corrupted by their absolute power and probably would only abuse it.

    ….and thats all I can come up with for now. I'll have to get back to it later.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Perhaps I should clarify. Why are Autochthon, Gaia, and the Incarnae qualified to judge who deserves to be given a leadership role? Two of them are primordials, and therefore literally incapable of understanding humanity in its totality or anything outside their purview. The other 5 are the incarnae, who are to a lady insane. Clinically. And I mean that literally. They are powerful and in a position of authority, but that doesn't give them a right to wield their status over the weak, nor does it give their decrees more weight than does the fact a bully can break someone's nose entitle him to their money. Again, we boil down to a problem of those with power believing they have an unlimited mandate to enforce their own beliefs and whims on the universe as a result.

    Hmm, kind of like solars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    *lightbulb*
    This suddenly gives me a great idea: Reborn of Shantara
    (snipped)
    Well. As much as I hate to admit it, that's actually a pretty awesome game idea. xD
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bitter View Post
    A few thousand! Alchemical are Celestial level too.
    But alchemicals don't have a floating exaltation that runs around seeking hosts.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Again, we boil down to a problem of those with power believing they have an unlimited mandate to enforce their own beliefs and whims on the universe as a result.
    That's going to happen no matter who is in power. Incarnae, Primordials, Solars, Dragon-blooded, humans, puppies, etc.

    You might as well complain that the sky is blue.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Objection!

    The puppyxalted would not seek to force their desires on the cosmos unless it was dinnertime. And even when it was, they would only rend asunder the fabric of the universe to get a delicious doggy treat.

    Hmm.

    I'm not actually sure that's better...
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    You might as well complain that the sky is blue.
    "We call to order the solar deliberative meeting three-thousand, five-hundred and forty-nine. First on the minutes: Our resident artist has requested a change of sky. This one's getting frightfully dull."

    "See? They MUST be stopped." said the Sidereals as the vision faded.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
    It's like the feng shui version of an orbital death laser.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I should have expected that reply, really.

    How about complaining that everyone doesn't have at least Appearance 5?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    How about complaining that everyone doesn't have at least Appearance 5?
    "Don't give them ideas! The Salinian working was bad enough, do you want one of my fellow Twilights to get the idea for a Working to make everyone pretty?"


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Operation: Bishify
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Perhaps I should clarify. Why are Autochthon, Gaia, and the Incarnae qualified to judge who deserves to be given a leadership role? Two of them are primordials, and therefore literally incapable of understanding humanity in its totality or anything outside their purview. The other 5 are the incarnae, who are to a lady insane. Clinically. And I mean that literally.
    The "qualification" you seek does not exist. They were capable of judging, and so they did. No one has it in the way you seek. That doesn't stop people from making it.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    They are powerful and in a position of authority, but that doesn't give them a right to wield their status over the weak, nor does it give their decrees more weight than does the fact a bully can break someone's nose entitle him to their money.
    It doesn't give them that right because, again, such a right does not exist: They wield their power because they can. This is simply how things are.
    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Again, we boil down to a problem of those with power believing they have an unlimited mandate to enforce their own beliefs and whims on the universe as a result.Hmm, kind of like solars.
    The thing is...they have such a mandate. It was given by the incarna, who usurped the throne from the primordials. That either of those groups doesn't have such a right in your conception doesn't change the fact that it's what they did, and it is how the world is.
    ----
    How do you want to define who can decide those things? The creators? Those who saw the madness of their creators and overthrew them? The little people? Intermediates in-between? An unknown meta-entity that resides beyond the setting?
    How do you measure what is right and what is wrong? Insane or not, the morality of each yozi is as valid as our own. The morality of the incarna is as valid as ours. You can't even define what moral deeds are on a human level...humans simply disagree.
    Morality is a human invention. It didn't exist before humans, nor does it define anything other than what humans attribute it to.
    You want a moral Creation. Good luck with that, and I can point you a few character concepts for all exalt types whose drive lead to that(and a fair bit of them would be seen as insane monsters, as all exalts tend to be).
    But that is a can-be. The game line purposefully avoids creating objective morality. The line is considerably less dark than it was in the first edition, but the world within it is still amoral.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    I should have expected that reply, really.

    How about complaining that everyone doesn't have at least Appearance 5?
    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    "Don't give them ideas! The Salinian working was bad enough, do you want one of my fellow Twilights to get the idea for a Working to make everyone pretty?"
    Hmmmmmmm...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanqol View Post
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    @Lord_Raziere: Fair Folk are fine. Just ask meschlum. He will make you a Raksha which can never be destroyed, can teleport anywhere instantly, and produce infinite armies of anything.

    But, yeah, combat that doesn't need PDs can't come soon enough for me. I'm playing a fairly non-combat character in an Exalted game right now, and I'd like to stave off death.

  29. - Top - End - #299
    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Panther's real problem seems to be the fandom image of him summarized by the "What the Christ :Punch:" images.

    Arianna's problem is that her writer really didn't read the setting before nailing down her backstory.

    And Deus? He actually, seriously, wasn't that bad. Oh, he was certainly bad to his wife, but that's a very personal thing(I'm not discounting it, except to the extent that it makes him a horrible solar). Besides that, he was actually a pretty exemplary solar.

    No, the more horrible solars, if you want to look for them, are ones like and Salina. Re-writing the universe without supervision, because of some overriding goal. That's the kind of thing that instigated the great Prophecy.
    Actually, I pointed out Panther because of such things as the Abyssals Chapter 3 comic. Now, Desus is actually a pretty swell guy, some bad habits aside. In my group's shared Creation, I explicitly made him the unholy fusion of William Shakespeare and Walt Disney. His works are timeless classics because he snuck coded versions of his scripts into Salina's notes. But it should never be forgotten that swellness aside, he is completely self-absorbed to the point of amorality in stark contrast the image of Solars as the Lawgivers. He will do whatever he wishes to amuse himself. Projects like the Salinan working were horrifyingly reckless, yes, but are exactly the sort of innovation one would expect from a bringer of justice and equality (even if she only did it to prove she could).

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    Morality is a human invention. It didn't exist before humans, nor does it define anything other than what humans attribute it to.
    Well, technically, it's Sol's invention (or the Ebon Dragon's invention by proxy).

    In any case, I've long held the view that the inherent issues with morality in the setting are, as always, the Solars' fault. Now before anyone bites my head off, consider the following /billnyethescienceguy. Mardukth was the first ruler of anything, simply by virtue of being the biggest, baddest dude around. That he was "king" rather than anything else implies that such was the natural state of things, what immediately came to the Primordial mind, whether they were thinking of actually needing a leader or just trying to placate the big guy. Then the Holy Tyrant came to Zen Mu.

    Now, this is important - he was "holy" before Sol, the very source of Holy, existed - and he was a "tyrant." The archaic, original use of the word meant any ruler who took power illegally (by beating Mardukth senseless) and tyranny was viewed as an intermediary form of government between the overthrow of an old aristocracy and the establishment of a government by the citizens. That some Primordials stood with Mardukth in the struggle implies that they had a vested interest in keeping the power structure as it was, even though they knew standing against the Infinite Radiant Is was quite impossible, and even if it wasn't quite an aristocracy as we'd know it. Of course, they lost, leaving the shinmaic substructure of rulership as king of everything. During this time, "holy" was his will, and the quality was later given to Sol as the King's crown jewel so that he might better perform his duties.

    Now then, how is the lack of morality the Solars' fault? It's simple: when they had the very embodiment of rulership pinned down, they took their petty vengeance upon him rather than looking at the big picture. They maimed him (and the rest of the Yozis) in such a way as to bring them down to humanity's level. All that was good about the concept of tyranny was stripped out, and they forcibly made him become the villainous caricature they had always seen. As above, so below, when they condemned Malfeas to play his pathetic game of King in hell, they condemned the human race to forever suffer under the heels of those with power, bound by the illegitimate rulership of the Devil Tyrant and the hypocritical laws of Cecelyne (who needs more interesting titles).

  30. - Top - End - #300
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    @Lord_Raziere: Fair Folk are fine. Just ask meschlum. He will make you a Raksha which can never be destroyed, can teleport anywhere instantly, and produce infinite armies of anything.

    But, yeah, combat that doesn't need PDs can't come soon enough for me. I'm playing a fairly non-combat character in an Exalted game right now, and I'd like to stave off death.
    Although any sane ST would shoot most of those ideas down.

    Really, Meschlum's stuff is like PunPun or Locate City Nuke is in DnD3.5. A good thought practice on the mechanics, but nothing else.
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