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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Gensh View Post
    Actually, I pointed out Panther because of such things as the Abyssals Chapter 3 comic.
    I know the one you're talking about (Panther kills in an exhibition match) and that event was before his Exaltation. Panther at that time is a very different person than Panther after his Exaltation.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lix Lorn View Post
    Hmmmmmmm...
    Oh, god, no. Creation's "humans" are already weird and strange enough without giving them inhuman beauty on top of it

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    I know the one you're talking about (Panther kills in an exhibition match) and that event was before his Exaltation. Panther at that time is a very different person than Panther after his Exaltation.
    In fact, this is the whole point of his exaltation, realizing that he was wrong, and then changing.
    He fears his fate too much, and his reward is small, who will not put it to the touch, to win or lose it all.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    No, I detest those who don't realize that as big as they are there are larger concerns at work. Deciding fate is a whole thing in exalted, yes. I just feel the decision should weigh in with something other than "I whim it so."
    This summarizes my dislike for any Exalt character which utilizes this philosophical construct. Powerful as they are, Exalts should be servants. Those who are boastful and prideful become the villains. ...usually.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    *lightbulb*
    This suddenly gives me a great idea: Reborn of Shantara
    Woah-woah! Pack it into a nice document with more stuff. Then, let us read it. I probably would.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    This summarizes my dislike for any Exalt character which utilizes this philosophical construct. Powerful as they are, Exalts should be servants. Those who are boastful and prideful become the villains. ...usually.
    What?

    The Exalted (the Solars, at least) literally have a mandate to rule. Why should they be servants? Rulership is programmed into their Exaltations just as much as awesome sunlight glowiness is.
    There's no wrong way to play. - S. John Ross

    Quote Originally Posted by archaeo View Post
    Man, this is just one of those things you see and realize, "I live in a weird and banal future."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Although any sane ST would shoot most of those ideas down.
    Bronze Factionist. I see.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Really, Meschlum's stuff is like PunPun or Locate City Nuke is in DnD3.5. A good thought practice on the mechanics, but nothing else.
    Heresy. Meschlum is giving easy to understand and full of unique humor insights into the workings of Raksha storylines.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    Bronze Factionist. I see.



    Heresy. Meschlum is giving easy to understand and full of unique humor insights into the workings of Raksha storylines.
    I did say any sane ST, remember?

    Remember what the ST said about your suggestion for a Raksha version of Ring of Being?

    I remember it being somewhere along the lines of "Hahah, no."
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I hate when we have Exalted morality debates, especially when we treat the different varieties of exalts as different alignments.

    The average (in morality and power) solar will commit more evil acts than the average dragonblooded (like, in the Age of Sorrows, killing all Dynasts or just Dragon-Blooded they come across because they were wronged by one in the past). They will also commit more good acts. This is because they are simply more. More power, more life, more opinion, more motivation to action.
    Last edited by Hiro Protagonest; 2012-02-20 at 07:23 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Remember what the ST said about your suggestion for a Raksha version of Ring of Being?

    I remember it being somewhere along the lines of "Hahah, no."
    And what should he reply when all others in Custom Charm Discussion started complaining shamelessly ? "Broken, broken !" and other such nonconstructive cricitism. But after I explained the specifics, ST's concerns about "Creation trumps Wyld" were answered. Since it wasn't Raksha Artifact but a normal one. Tuned to Fair Folk. I dropped making it to not hurt feelings of those ... oversensitive.

    EDIT: Exalted morality is exactly the same as in our world. From pessimistic point of view. Might makes right. Orc society.
    Last edited by Rikandur Azebol; 2012-02-20 at 07:24 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    And what should he reply when all others in Custom Charm Discussion started complaining shamelessly ? "Broken, broken !" and other such nonconstructive cricitism. But after I explained the specifics, ST's concerns about "Creation trumps Wyld" were answered. Since it wasn't Raksha Artifact but a normal one. Tuned to Fair Folk. I dropped making it to not hurt feelings of those ... oversensitive.
    Hate to break it to you pal, but the Ring of Being is broken no matter who has it. Doesn't matter if you are Solar, Infernal, Raksha, Mortal, Dragon-Blooded, or Puppyxalted.

    My point is, anything a player makes should be carefully looked over by the presiding Storyteller. And maybe the players, to be nice. Meschlum's stuff pushes the boundary of what I at least would allow into a game. Epic is fine, trying to pull haxx isn't.

    I'm not say this is how things have to be in your game, or any game you play in. This is only my opinion and suggestion.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Yuki Akuma View Post
    What?

    The Exalted (the Solars, at least) literally have a mandate to rule. Why should they be servants? Rulership is programmed into their Exaltations just as much as awesome sunlight glowiness is.
    Yuki... Tsk-tsk? Servants to some thing, not some one. Service to a greater good. Text material from the manuals aside, characters that are pompous, full-of-themselves, bullies aren't any fun to play for me. The best characters that I've ever had the pleasure to role-play were always dedicated to something more than themselves. Something that would last beyond themselves.

    Now the rest of the thread could jump in and say, "That's your character's motivation!" But it can't be explained away with one line of text. Not for the kind of thing I'm looking for, anyway.


    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Meschlum's stuff pushes the boundary of what I at least would allow into a game.
    Even Meschlum admits that his stuff isn't standard-game-suitable.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Yuki... Tsk-tsk? Servants to some thing, not some one. Service to a greater good. Text material from the manuals aside, characters that are pompous, full-of-themselves, bullies aren't any fun to play for me. The best characters that I've ever had the pleasure to role-play were always dedicated to something more than themselves. Something that would last beyond themselves.

    Now the rest of the thread could jump in and say, "That's your character's motivation!" But it can't be explained away with one line of text. Not for the kind of thing I'm looking for, anyway.




    Even Meschlum admits that his stuff isn't standard-game-suitable.
    I know what you mean. These types of rulers also bore me, but they aren't invalid by any means.
    My leader-types tend to do so out of need, not want. One warrior of mine negotiated support to an emperor so that he would support him. Led armies to certian victory, conquered many... All for fancy power armor and readily available units to facilitate his own quests!

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    And Deus? He actually, seriously, wasn't that bad. Oh, he was certainly bad to his wife, but that's a very personal thing(I'm not discounting it, except to the extent that it makes him a horrible solar). Besides that, he was actually a pretty exemplary solar.
    ...Are you invoking the Desus meme, or do you genuinely not know that Desus was a serial rapist who covered up his work with that memory manipulation Charm?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    Panther's real problem seems to be the fandom image of him summarized by the "What the Christ :Punch:" images.

    Arianna's problem is that her writer really didn't read the setting before nailing down her backstory.

    And Deus? He actually, seriously, wasn't that bad. Oh, he was certainly bad to his wife, but that's a very personal thing(I'm not discounting it, except to the extent that it makes him a horrible solar). Besides that, he was actually a pretty exemplary solar.

    No, the more horrible solars, if you want to look for them, are ones like and Salina. Re-writing the universe without supervision, because of some overriding goal. That's the kind of thing that instigated the great Prophecy.
    That Panther meme is glorious thank you for telling me about it

    Desus is pretty much a scumbag, though. I mean, even if you ignore the fact that he beat his wife so hard that she lost the child she was pregnant with, he did some other nasty things. When Desus was warring against the Lintha, he asked Oliphem to stop helping ships not crash (to disable the Lintha, of course, since his Solar-commanded fleet would suffer minimal casualties). Oliphem refused, because he was honor-bound to protect EVERY sailor. So Desus crippled him. And even if you consider "ends justify the means", remember that the Lintha are still active in Creation, so Desus obviously failed to get the job done anyway. Oliphem was a protector of Creation, and Desus ruined him for causing an inconvenience.

    Salina altering the laws of the universe out of "goodness" is also probably not high on the Sidereals' list of "totally okay things", though.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganurath View Post
    ...Are you invoking the Desus meme, or do you genuinely not know that Desus was a serial rapist who covered up his work with that memory manipulation Charm?
    I'm pretty sure that's Admiral Arkadi, Levithan's Solar mate.



    Quote Originally Posted by DeadManSleeping View Post
    Desus is pretty much a scumbag, though. I mean, even if you ignore the fact that he beat his wife so hard that she lost the child she was pregnant with, he did some other nasty things. When Desus was warring against the Lintha, he asked Oliphem to stop helping ships not crash (to disable the Lintha, of course, since his Solar-commanded fleet would suffer minimal casualties). Oliphem refused, because he was honor-bound to protect EVERY sailor. So Desus crippled him. And even if you consider "ends justify the means", remember that the Lintha are still active in Creation, so Desus obviously failed to get the job done anyway. Oliphem was a protector of Creation, and Desus ruined him for causing an inconvenience.
    Desus is horrible in personal ways: I never said otherwise, and in fact do support that idea. But, outside of that? He is actually good. He does Heroic things, not out of the right ideas, no, but he does do them.

    As for the Lintha, that's actually not all too clear. First off, at least some Lintha were taken under the protection of a different Solar, thus were out of Desus's reach. Secondly, it's not clear if he was tasked with extermination or supression, or something else altogether. Finally, Oliphem wasn't a protector of Creation, he was a Protector of Sailors: some of those sailors he was protecting were, in fact, enemies of Creation, ones that Desus was fighting. And, by aiding the enemy, he was possibly increasing the Death Toll of the Solar armies. So, yeah, it was a **** move, but it wasn't without reason. The real part that makes it bad is that Oliphem wasn't healed afterwords.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    2.5 update.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatewheel
    Update 2/21/12 AM 6:02

    This is a bit late, but it's still my Monday, as I haven't slept yet. The 2.5 errata is in the final phase of completion—compiling it into a single file and editing it so it can be processed into the .pdf.

    Tuesday we will be finishing a corrections sweep on the Sidereal errata, which is mostly finished, and then adding in final fixes/adjustments where needed. If all goes well, we should have Sidereals finished sometime this week.

    I'll post another update soon.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    This post isn't meant for conjecture, but clarification. Most of it is rhetorical so no offense is meant:

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreaz View Post
    I know what you mean. These types of rulers also bore me, but they aren't invalid by any means.
    My leader-types tend to do so out of need, not want. One warrior of mine negotiated support to an emperor so that he would support him. Led armies to certian victory, conquered many... All for fancy power armor and readily available units to facilitate his own quests!
    Which is greater? The hero who masses a great army or he who leads it? The hero who finances new technology or he who builds it? The hero who loves ideals or he who loves people? The hero who preaches or the hero who acts?

    Which is greater? The hero who demands sacrifice? ...or is it he who forsakes power, wealth, and fame to become a servant to the very ones who need him the most?

    This theme can, or should, resonate with any Exalt type. It's a theme which draws exalts together and binds them to a common purpose.


    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Even Meschlum admits that his stuff isn't standard-game-suitable.
    And it's true. Meschlum's said it plainly. But while it is normally true there's also an aspect of it where it should probably be play-tested. So while the stuff itself is possibly dangerous to a normal game it's still neat enough to try out. Just...don't try it out with players who want to play Exalted too much. Some of that stuff is an, "I Win," switch.
    Last edited by Story Time; 2012-02-21 at 06:52 AM. Reason: Punctuation

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Weimann View Post
    Ah, good. I expect I'll need to rebuild my current Sid a bit and change my future plans, but it's an affordable price for having an actual charmset .

    (Comments made by Hatewheel on the scope of the errata in question make me entirely expect the errata'd Craft tree to be markedly less lean and useful than the version Recaiden and me worked up for my character, mind. But I'm ready to take the hit if the new Sid balance requires it )
    Last edited by Drascin; 2012-02-21 at 06:57 AM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Hate to break it to you pal, but the Ring of Being is broken no matter who has it. Doesn't matter if you are Solar, Infernal, Raksha, Mortal, Dragon-Blooded, or Puppyxalted.
    It is ? Perhaps in Your opinion. I am of opinion that powerful items different than "Bigger Gun" archetype are a step towards Epic feeling I like.

    I like when Players try to act like heroes, instead of huddling behind their fences like scared little monkeys. Though it's just me speaking my opinion.

    As ST I take great pleasure in seeing my Players boldly weathering dangers I put in front of them and cooperating in creating an Epic Story that is a pleasant thing to remember afterwards. Even if all that it was was a heroic last stand.

    That includes "broken" stuff used in a way that is interesting and helps the story. Without little trust in Your Players gaming experience turns into "Me vs Them" syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    My point is, anything a player makes should be carefully looked over by the presiding Storyteller. And maybe the players, to be nice. Meschlum's stuff pushes the boundary of what I at least would allow into a game. Epic is fine, trying to pull haxx isn't.
    If Players trust and obey ST, games run smoother than when everyone argues about "my interpretation of rules, that favors me, is the only true".

    My opinion on "haxx" is simple. It's something unwhelsome done by ST and/or Player or "Gaia preserve !" Players. When people playing start ... conflicting instead of playing. It's an very ugly thing. ST "haxx" I despise is the so called "railroading".

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    I'm not say this is how things have to be in your game, or any game you play in. This is only my opinion and suggestion.
    I do believe that. Also I express my own opinions, without suggesting things, since I tend to enforce them in games I ST.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Drascin View Post
    Ah, good. I expect I'll need to rebuild my current Sid a bit and change my future plans, but it's an affordable price for having an actual charmset .

    (Comments made by Hatewheel on the scope of the errata in question make me entirely expect the errata'd Craft tree to be markedly less lean and useful than the version Recaiden and me worked up for my character, mind. But I'm ready to take the hit if the new Sid balance requires it )
    Yeah, if you've got a homebrewed Charm set you're happy with, you should probably keep going with that. This is TCA style errata, and there will be more coming.

    In other news, in case you hadn't already noticed, Revlid and Reminiscent Oasis have been chosen to write Sidereal and Lunar Overdrive Charms.
    Last edited by Weimann; 2012-02-21 at 07:56 AM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    And just like that, I'll squee like a fangirl again...

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Really, Meschlum's stuff is like PunPun or Locate City Nuke is in DnD3.5. A good thought practice on the mechanics, but nothing else.
    Actully, after I get the point of his "changing into Luna thing", the basic mondus operandi of unshaped (grace) transformation and extinction of desire. It. Just. Don't. Work.

    Then, I know, that other shangenings could be also wrong. I just don't have time to scrutinize other raksha mechanical wonders.

    Maybe its better this way
    It is ? Perhaps in Your opinion. I am of opinion that powerful items different than "Bigger Gun" archetype are a step towards Epic feeling I like.
    No, ring of being is broken. It explicite defend you from all Deathlord charms.
    Last edited by Madwand; 2012-02-21 at 10:18 AM.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Tavar View Post
    I'm pretty sure that's Admiral Arkadi, Levithan's Solar mate.
    It's both of them, although Arkadi is more well known for it. He raped his Dragon-Blooded subordinates and then Eclipse oath'd them into staying silent.

    Nice fellow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Story Time View Post
    Which is greater? The hero who masses a great army or he who leads it? The hero who finances new technology or he who builds it? The hero who loves ideals or he who loves people? The hero who preaches or the hero who acts?

    Which is greater? The hero who demands sacrifice? ...or is it he who forsakes power, wealth, and fame to become a servant to the very ones who need him the most?
    Um. Entirely a matter of opinion? All of them are great, for different reasons. The simple farmboy that begins with nothing, yet goes on to save the world by slaying the Weeping Emperor, is hero. So is the prince born into a life of wealth and privilege who leads the Alliance to victory over the Empire while the farmboy makes a covert strike behind enemy lines. You can argue which one is "more" heroic, but that's pretty silly.

    Of course, "hero" is a flexible, morally neutral term in Creation. Admiral Arkadi and Desus were both heroes, despite the horrible things they did. The Deathlords qualify, too. A hero is someone who has the power to change the world and is willing to use that power. It doesn't matter how you use your power, only that you have it and that you do use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    It is ? Perhaps in Your opinion. I am of opinion that powerful items different than "Bigger Gun" archetype are a step towards Epic feeling I like.
    No, the Ring of Being commits three mortal sins of Artifact designs.

    First, it's broken. Duh. Massive immunity to a broad variety of beings is not territory that belongs in an Artifact 5. It would be fine as an Artifact N/A, where it can sit alongside the other plot coupons, but as an Artifact 5? No.

    Second, it has incredibly stupid setting implications. How the bloody hell are gods not of Creation proper? The gods that were made in the first place to oversee Creation, many of whom live inside Creation for eternity? It sets up a categorization alongside things like creatures of darkness that has no place within the setting.

    Third, and perhaps most importantly, it's boring. "Wear this piece of jewelry, be immune to x, y, and z" is just unbelievably uninteresting. You can argue the mechanics and cost of something like Death at the Root, but it at least does something fairly interesting.

    So, yes, Ring of Being is bad, burn it in a fire.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    It is ? Perhaps in Your opinion. I am of opinion that powerful items different than "Bigger Gun" archetype are a step towards Epic feeling I like.

    I like when Players try to act like heroes, instead of huddling behind their fences like scared little monkeys. Though it's just me speaking my opinion.

    As ST I take great pleasure in seeing my Players boldly weathering dangers I put in front of them and cooperating in creating an Epic Story that is a pleasant thing to remember afterwards. Even if all that it was was a heroic last stand.
    Alright. I'll go at this from a different perspective, lets ignore it mechanically, and look at the artifact from a narrative perspective.

    A now hero isn't a hero without risk. Its not cleverness to outwit a fool, it shows no skill to defeat an amateur, and its not bravery if you go after something that has no chance at ever harming you. Attacking your enemies after becoming flat out immune to any chance they can harm you isn't brave. It isn't larger then life. It isn't interesting. Its stupid, trite, boring, and pointless. It has no interesting drawbacks, nothing that gives it any sort of narrative flare, its just there. A flat out no to various powers, and in such a way that its destined to only annoy your ST.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Bookworm View Post
    Um. Entirely a matter of opinion?
    Sure it is! It's the opinion of Mortal Versus Exalt. Those are some interesting examples, by the way.

    Here's a thought experiment I tried once for Exalted.

    Solar A likes the idea that all wagons should have seat-belts. As a law-giver the solar enforces this law everywhere they go. They fine people who don't do it. Those who refuse are beaten up. Why? Because the Solar can put their personal opinion as more important than the traditions and customs of mortals and back it up with some kind of force. Solar A's shard makes them innately stronger than mortals. Even under-water wagons where being tied to the wagon would mean drowning, Solar A will enforce their law. Is Solar A always right because they have power? Because they can pull Judge Dredd style summary executions as part of their mandate to rule?

    ( No offense for Judge Dredd fans. Dredd doesn't conjure laws from thin air. )

    Now, Solar B comes along. Solar B hates the idea of seat-belts. So while Solar A has already been through the area and moved on to bigger and better things, Solar B is having a field day smashing mortal faces because those mortals are breaking Solar B's personal and independent law.


    It's not just Exalted that can do this. Any character which is not a player character can be assumed as a villain when this happens: Using Might-Makes-Right, so to speak. So player-characters are exempt from this simply because they're player characters? And that's heroic? That's morally neutral?


    ...yeah, I'm going to leave this off with a simple thing: Not my kind of game.

  26. - Top - End - #326
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    I've sincerely never seen a game where Solars have pulled those kinds of shenanigans. I've seen plenty of non-Exalted games where perfectly killable mortals have pulled those kinds of shenanigans. I fail to see your point.

  27. - Top - End - #327
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rikandur Azebol View Post
    It is ? Perhaps in Your opinion. I am of opinion that powerful items different than "Bigger Gun" archetype are a step towards Epic feeling I like.
    Step 1: Buy Lightspeed Body Dyamics.
    Step 2: Solo pre-errata Sol at 50 XP.
    Step 3: Duck thrown rulebook to the face
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    This game contains broken **** that should not under any circumstances be used, or at least should be relegated to massive plot coupons. This is true whether said broken **** is a Charm or an Artifact.

    The Ring of Being is in an 'eff you and the horse you rode in on' on par with a great many Artifact N/As. In fact, it's even better than a great many Artifact N/As.

    The Ring of Being you proposed? That immunizes you against everything not of the Wyld? Is better than a Directional Titan. It could, when on the finger of someone with good dice pools, allow them to effortlessly solo Creation. A Directional Titan can't do that, and its purpose is mostly destroying things.

    You could then find a Malfeas gate and proceed to solo Malfeas as well. A Directional Titan can't do that, and its purpose is mostly destroying things.

    This is not a matter of opinion, or if it is, it's the matter of "everyone's opinion but yours."
    Last edited by Guancyto; 2012-02-21 at 01:40 PM.
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  28. - Top - End - #328
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Desus wasn't one of the problems of the First Age. If every Solar had been like Desus, the Usurpation would never have had to happen.

    Yes, Desus would sometimes go mad and beat his wife. Yes, he constantly exuded unnatural mental influence convincing everyone he was even more awesome than he actually was, leading them to excuse any crimes he might bother to commit.

    Here's the thing, though; the people who lived in his realm, the people he protected and ruled over? This didn't affect them in the slightest. They lived peaceful lives in well cared-for cities with ample resources and good infrastructure. They were mortals who didn't have to pray to monstrous spirits that cared nothing for them, or endure backbreaking labour in Lintha slave-barques, or be sacrificed by their saurian overlords to a distant Sun-god.

    This was what the Primordial War had been fought for, and Desus was a hero for maintaining it.

    That he also left one woman a conflicted wreck of insecurities and dependency issues isn't really a concern. It can affect our personal judgement of Desus, but that judgement is irrelevant on a greater scale of lives lost and welfare improved, just as our personal judgement of the Scarlet Empress' personal relations has no impact on the fact that she brought the Balorian Crusade to a halt and saved all of Creation.

    Desus wasn't the problem. In the First Age, anyone would have been happy to live in Desus' realm. The issue was with other Solars, ones who were not content with their baubles and amusements.

    Idiots like Salina, who undermined the delicate power-balance of the entire Deliberative in order to sneak a pet project to rewrite the laws of the universe into a boring trade-clause.

    Creatures like the Hierophant, who inflicted horrible damage to Creation's geomancy in order to feed his lawn-sprinklers, forcibly blinded himself to the suffering of others, and alienated the Unconquered Sun from the affairs of the world.

    Entities who proved themselves no more thoughtful or compassionate than the titans who ruled the world before them, stripping free will from their mortal charges, transforming whole cities into living artwork, engineering entire races of monsters or engaging in perverse cruelties on a massive scale.

    Spousal abuse was never what concerned the Fivefold Fellowship, any more than casual rape, cannibalism or poor fashion sense. It made the decision to bring down the golden towers easier for some, I'm sure, but personal mortality was never the lynchpin; it was the fact that notable chunks of the Solar host were taking crowbars to the very mechanisms of existence.

    The Usurpation wasn't supposed to make tomorrow better. It was supposed to ensure that there would be a tomorrow.

    Desus was a hero. Salina was a monster.

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    fireworks on meru... lgs must be enjoying themselves! lol
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    Last edited by Revlid; 2012-02-21 at 03:49 PM.
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    Alright. Just for that, if we both make it into the game, the first test target for Total Annihilation whenever I get Solar sorcery is going to be you.

  29. - Top - End - #329
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Why doesn't this forum have a 'thank' button?
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  30. - Top - End - #330
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    That he also left one woman a conflicted wreck of insecurities and dependency issues isn't really a concern. It can affect our personal judgement of Desus, but that judgement is irrelevant on a greater scale of lives lost and welfare improved, just as our personal judgement of the Scarlet Empress' personal relations has no impact on the fact that she brought the Balorian Crusade to a halt and saved all of Creation.
    This paragraph is what I was trying to say, but put better and with more fancy words accompanying it saying similarly accurate parts.

    Desus was a bad PERSON. But that doesn't also mean he was a bad solar.
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