General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[tonberrian]

So I've got a question.

Say I'm a Solar who wants to lift up Islebreaker (CoTD: West 143). How would I go about doing this?

[Rikandur Azebol]

St's role is to fill the void left by abusable mechanics, like always. Still primary role of the Gem of Hate is still to drain all niceness of people, right ?

Splendid as always Meschlum.

[Mr.Bookworm]

So I've got a question.

Say I'm a Solar who wants to lift up Islebreaker (CoTD: West 143). How would I go about doing this?

You need a Strength+Athletics of 60.

Assuming this is an actual game, there's not a really non-cheesy way for a non-elder Solar to get that without extensive, character-altering work. You could, of course, simply be Arkadi's reincarnation, but that's about it.

Hypothetically?

Earliest you can do it off the top of my head (you can almost definitely get it earlier, depending on how cheesy you want to get) is Essence 5.

Be an Eclipse, have Strength 5, Athletics 5, and a relevant specialty of +3, for a 13 base.

Add in Glorious Temple Body for a flat +(Essence) to feats of strength, bringing you to 18.

Tack on Increasing Strength Exercise, spend 15 motes, and up your Strength by 5. That's 23.

Now go wander off into a Wyld zone for a bit and hope you roll well. Assuming you do, you now have the Giant blight, giving you three extra dots of Strength. That gives us 26.

Look at what's in my hand. It's your heart. Look again. Your heart is now an infernal helltech steampunk construct, granting you 4 extra dots of Strength.

We now have a total Strength+Athletics of 30. Since you're an Eclipse, you now take Yeddim's-Back Method from a Lunar. This doubles your Strength+Athletics for feats of strength, bringing us to 60.

Overall, it's probably easier to just get the damn Twilight to do something useful for once and build you Islebreaker minus the identity requirement.

[tonberrian]

You need a Strength+Athletics of 60.

Assuming this is an actual game, there's not a really non-cheesy way for a non-elder Solar to get that without extensive, character-altering work. You could, of course, simply be Arkadi's reincarnation, but that's about it.

Hypothetically?

Earliest you can do it off the top of my head (you can almost definitely get it earlier, depending on how cheesy you want to get) is Essence 5.

Be an Eclipse, have Strength 5, Athletics 5, and a relevant specialty of +3, for a 13 base.

Add in Glorious Temple Body for a flat +(Essence) to feats of strength, bringing you to 18.

Tack on Increasing Strength Exercise, spend 15 motes, and up your Strength by 5. That's 23.

Now go wander off into a Wyld zone for a bit and hope you roll well. Assuming you do, you now have the Giant blight, giving you three extra dots of Strength. That gives us 26.

Look at what's in my hand. It's your heart. Look again. Your heart is now an infernal helltech steampunk construct, granting you 4 extra dots of Strength.

We now have a total Strength+Athletics of 30. Since you're an Eclipse, you now take Yeddim's-Back Method from a Lunar. This doubles your Strength+Athletics for feats of strength, bringing us to 60.

Overall, it's probably easier to just get the damn Twilight to do something useful for once and build you Islebreaker minus the identity requirement.

It's not for an actual game. Purely speculation.

And I don't want Islebreaker. What I want is Luthe.

This post does confirm that it's probably an Elder thing to do, though.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Ah. That makes more sense.

Well. Actually looking at my books now.

Essence 3 Eclipse. Strength 5, Athletics 5, specialty 3 for 13. Add in Glorious Temple Body for 16. Pick up a Stone of the Chrysalis and use it to temporarily acquire the giant mutation. That gets you to 19. Get cheesy and grab a Twice-Striking Lightning Prism, then use Increasing Strength Exercise for 24. Now cast Unbreakable Bones of Stone, putting you at 29. There are a number of ways to get that last point. Wear power armor, steal some other Exalted's Charms, whatever. Yeddim's-Back Method, and you're at 60.

You can probably do it at Essence 2 if you want to get really cheesy.

[horngeek]

Alternate method: be Amayana's reincarnation, and get Leviathan to do it for you.

[Gensh]

Less-than-canon addendum: Borne By the Boar

[TheCountAlucard]

If only you needed sixty successes on the roll (instead of a Strength + Athletics total of 60), you could do it with one Fair Folk Charm.

I'm talking about Imposition of Law, of course. Strength + Athletics + Lifting Heavy Things; if it's not opposed with a stunt or Charm, you autosucceed with a threshold of 1.

[Turalisj]

If only you needed sixty successes on the roll (instead of a Strength + Athletics total of 60), you could do it with one Fair Folk Charm.

I'm talking about Imposition of Law, of course. Strength + Athletics + Lifting Heavy Things; if it's not opposed with a stunt or Charm, you autosucceed with a threshold of 1.

And thus my theory that Raksha were never intended for mixed play/being played at all continues.

[Brontes]

And thus my theory that Raksha were never intended for mixed play/being played at all continues.

Does the difficulty rating count as a penalty? Imposition only automatically succeeds when attacking somebody. Otherwise it just grants a single success in spite of penalties. If you have no other successes, you still fail against difficulty 2+ tasks.

[Draken]

Rereading the charm, I believe brontes has a point.

Also, if I am seeing it right, is Imposition of Law a day-long perfect defense against any attack that is... Let' say... Boring (no stunt, no charm)?

[Andreaz]

Difficulty and Penalties are different things.
Internal Penalties reduce your pool.
External Penalties reduce your successes.
Difficulty increases increase the difficulty before you succeed.

Being able to cancel penalties does not drop difficulties.

[Brontes]

Rereading the charm, I believe brontes has a point.

Also, if I am seeing it right, is Imposition of Law a day-long perfect defense against any attack that is... Let' say... Boring (no stunt, no charm)?

The text implies it, but it could be clearer. To me it just looks like you'll always have a DV of 1 (What the heck do DV penalties and onslaught penalties count as anyway?). I know that's not right, it just looks that way to me.

[TheCountAlucard]

Oops, thought the Charm did something else; it's been quite some time since I read it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

The text implies it, but it could be clearer. To me it just looks like you'll always have a DV of 1 (What the heck do DV penalties and onslaught penalties count as anyway?). I know that's not right, it just looks that way to me.

Errata clarifies this. Imposition of Law is indeed a perfect defense if you use it that way. It's also a day-long perfect attack, used a different way.

Of course, literally everything in the game but extras can stunt, and you are encouraged to do so nigh constantly, so it's pretty much useless except to let raksha mow down extras, which they can do easily anyway.

If only you needed sixty successes on the roll (instead of a Strength + Athletics total of 60), you could do it with one Fair Folk Charm.

I'm talking about Imposition of Law, of course. Strength + Athletics + Lifting Heavy Things; if it's not opposed with a stunt or Charm, you autosucceed with a threshold of 1.

Nope. Imposition of Law doesn't let you do things that are impossible for you to do normally. Otherwise you could take the above combo for IoL and lift Mount Meru over your head.

[Brontes]

The Errata does imply that due to having an FoI, but it's still kind of murky to me.

Presuming it were possible to lift a mountain, it could still fail. The proposed scenario requires 60 successes (i.e. difficulty 60). IoL guarantees 1 success if penalties remove all other successes. Difficulties aren't penalties so he'd still need 60 successes. Heck, if he rolls even one unpenalized success, he wouldn't benefit from IoL (Note: Can't tell if IoL adds one success in all situations, or just when penalized to 0).

Or am I not accounting for that combo you mentioned?

[Draken]

Not successes, raw total.

And IoL gives you one bonus success at all times, even when you shouldn't get anything at all.

[Xefas]

So I've got a question.

Say I'm a Solar who wants to lift up Islebreaker (CoTD: West 143). How would I go about doing this?

I can't tell you the easiest, the earliest, or the simplest way to do it. But I can tell you the best way. Assuming Essence 5. Go chat up Ligier. Convince him to Invest you with a cool Urge, like "Do what thou will, but with endless rage" - y'know, something that won't distract you too much from your chosen hobby of lifting heavy things.

So, hopefully, in his infinite magnanimity, Malfeas has reconfigured all your useless social-fu charms (which you presumably used to get that wicked Urge) into an Essence 6 rating, with Strength 6/Athletics 6. Specialty (Lifting Things Angrily) +3. Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai will get you +6 Strength for feats of strength. Plus six applications of Gargantuan, which is another +24 Strength. Green Iron Heart for +4. Infernal Monster Form for +6. Glorious Temple Body for another +6.

That's a total of 61 for a scene.

Now, I don't know your stance on these sorts of things, but it also comes with the added bonuses of:
-Access to the most awesomely named charm in the game.
-No more free will. Woot.
-You have enough Shintai mojo left to give yourself additional arms. They don't help you with lifting, but maybe you just watched Asura's Wrath.
-You don't have to associate with hearthstones, Fiend-alikes, or Lunars.
-I think you'd be over a hundred feet tall, or thereabouts. Perhaps wear a kilt. While lifting Islebreaker, you can wink (angrily) at the onlookers and say "Ladies... =3"

[horngeek]

Xefas, you are awesome.

...you know, I've never actually been able to find Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai. Have I just been missing it somewhere completely obvious?

[golentan]

Xefas, you are awesome.

...you know, I've never actually been able to find Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai. Have I just been missing it somewhere completely obvious?

Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai was released as an Ink Monkeys charm. Look for it in the Ink Monkeys Ultimate Collection (it's well worth it: CUSTOM SHINTAI CHARM AHOY!)

[tonberrian]

Devil Tyrant Avatar Shintai was released as an Ink Monkeys charm. Look for it in the Ink Monkeys Ultimate Collection (it's well worth it: CUSTOM SHINTAI CHARM AHOY!)

And, like every Ink Monkey's charm, it's available in total on the wiki.

[Gensh]

That's a total of 61 for a scene.

You're forgetting every Solar worth his salt has Glory to the Most High.

[Xefas]

You're forgetting every Solar worth his salt has Glory to the Most High.

I don't think becoming an Akuma stacks with Glory to the Most High. Although it lets you use Essence 7 charms with Divine Perfection of Ability without having to gain Limit every day from Glory to the Most High. Being an Akuma is much more mentally stabilizing.

[Turalisj]

Here's a challenge....

Stat up the Zerg from SC2 as Infernal Behemoths.

[meschlum]

Yes, the errata on IoL does not make it much clearer than before. For maximum banning potential, I will note that Fantasies are explicitly stated as making the impossible possible, allowing for... excessively creative rules lawyering and book dodging techniques.

On to the serious stuff.


Kciwdon the load bearer

Though the vast expanses of Elsewhere and the Wyld are open to the Fair Folk, some of those who choose to venture into Creation decide to follow its rules, at least for a while. Thus, a group of heroic beer guzzlers and smiters of naughty dragon-bloods ventured from Bob's Wyld Bar and sought out loot, wenches, and inspirational tracts. All of which they did while obeying an arcane set of rules, set down by their great precursor Xagyg Yrag, known as "Encumberance".

The incumberance of encumberance was truly excessive, as lugging about a dozen spare mules and half a hundred enchanted swords might have slowed them down. After their first trip to Creation, the ring of Raksha created a trust follower, Kciwdon, to haul everything for them. A worker truly dedicated to this purpose, Kciwdon performed admirably, lifting and bringing back everything he was sent to retrieve, and taking many grievious wounds in the process.

Creation-level Heroic Worker

Intimacy with carrying heavy loads for others.
Strength 4
Athletics 7
Specialty - lifting excessively heavy things +3
Essence 5
All Consuming God Monster Stance (Heart Stopping Numinous Power, Calling Upon the Dragon's Ire, whatever)
Style Improving Spirit
Permanent Assumption of Dreams and Passion - a humble load carrier, granting +1 automatic success to relevant tasks.
Aegis of a Martial Destiny, granting +1 automatic success to his Intimacy
Elegant Muse Attitude
Artifact 3

23 / 50 motes committed (+5 motes / scene when using Wyld Communion)

3 bonus points
1 free charm
1 spare artifact dot

Five 1-dot Adjurations: "I will lift everything that I am ordered to carry", "I will obey my employers no matter how insane their demands", "I will bear loads and never raise a weapon", "My words of common sense will never be heeded", "I will make for an entertaining webcomic".

Assumption of Bestial Form (Giant Ant) (x6 in all), granting Gargantuan 6 times (Essence is effectively 7 for this charm, so they all stack).
Assumption of Earth Form, ensuring Kciwdon seems suitably stolid.
Surpassing Excellence for another +2 for lifting excessively heavy things.
Glorious Hero Form for +1 Strength (from charms).

1-dot Oneiromancy (the load-bearer's helmet, replenished each season by being filled with stale pretzels during a boring meeting)

Sovereign Earth Shape - any accredited load-bearer gets +3 dice to carrying excessively heavy things (counts as dice from charms)
Ordinary Object Conjuration - rolls of sticky fabric will appear near Kciwdon when he is excessively wounded, working like bad tasting Celestial Wine.
Bestial Transformation - yet another instance of Giant Ant / Yeddim form, plus two spare mutation points.

For a base Strength + Athletics of 50, plus 2 automatic successes. So 52?

Via Merged Sovereign Earth Shape, add another 3 dice from charms, for 55.

Add 2 stunt dice (only granting the benefits of 1 die stunts) more or less at will from Style and Wyld Communion, for 57.

Then, there are six Poxes and one Affliction from mutations, which should be able to grant another +2 dice via suitable form - even if non-core.

The last die is left to the reader.


On another note, we have:

Coin of Deception

To the Raksha, currency is not so much an abstraction as an impossibility. Thus, they create great mercantile dealings with which to deceive and consume one another, and think nothing more of it. When their Diplomats wander into Creation, they are surprised to find that such things matter to the poor souls there.

One of the Fair Folk was inspired to use a potent deception there, to see what might ensue, and discovered that it was worth quite a bit. Word of this event spread, in Creation and the Wyld, and more Coins were made, though mortals seemed oddly unwilling to deal in them after a while. Still, in lands where their tale has not spread, or in the hands of trusted Creation-born, the Coins can have quite a bit of impact on the world.

2-dot Adjuration
Ordinary Object Conjuration - those sworn to the Coin can, at will, make a very valuable piece of currency appear in their hand or pocket. The only flaw to this working is that it is always the same bit of money, which perforce vanishes from its prior location in order to manifest again.

For a passing Raksha in the guise of a minstrel, this poses no trouble. For a greedy merchant seeking to establish himself...

[golentan]

I don't think becoming an Akuma stacks with Glory to the Most High. Although it lets you use Essence 7 charms with Divine Perfection of Ability without having to gain Limit every day from Glory to the Most High. Being an Akuma is much more mentally stabilizing.

Yeah... A starting character should not be able to buy essence 8 charms. Under any circumstances, really. Basically, at that point a solaroid's in a freeform game. And yet, if Akumahood stacks with GttMH it does allow that...

[golentan]

And for all those who are interested, while I'm not ready to start game I'm opening to interested parties and letting people look ahead to the setting and some potential adventures.

In Soviet Kamak, The Exalted serve You!

[Lix Lorn]

I can't tell you the easiest, the earliest, or the simplest way to do it. But I can tell you the best way. Assuming Essence 5. Go chat up Ligier. Convince him to Invest you with a cool Urge, like "Do what thou will, but with endless rage" - y'know, something that won't distract you too much from your chosen hobby of lifting heavy things.

So, hopefully, in his infinite magnanimity, Malfeas has reconfigured all your useless social-fu charms (which you presumably used to get that wicked Urge) into an Essence 6 rating, with Strength 6/Athletics 6. Specialty (Lifting Things Angrily) +3. Devil-Tyrant Avatar Shintai will get you +6 Strength for feats of strength. Plus six applications of Gargantuan, which is another +24 Strength. Green Iron Heart for +4. Infernal Monster Form for +6. Glorious Temple Body for another +6.

That's a total of 61 for a scene.

Now, I don't know your stance on these sorts of things, but it also comes with the added bonuses of:
-Access to the most awesomely named charm in the game.
-No more free will. Woot.
-You have enough Shintai mojo left to give yourself additional arms. They don't help you with lifting, but maybe you just watched Asura's Wrath.
-You don't have to associate with hearthstones, Fiend-alikes, or Lunars.
-I think you'd be over a hundred feet tall, or thereabouts. Perhaps wear a kilt. While lifting Islebreaker, you can wink (angrily) at the onlookers and say "Ladies... =3"

Xefas is BEST person.

[horngeek]

My favorite part of his method is the 'wink (angrily)'.

XD

[Edge]

And for all those who are interested, while I'm not ready to start game I'm opening to interested parties and letting people look ahead to the setting and some potential adventures.

In Soviet Kamak, The Exalted serve You!

I have a very rough idea for a Jade Caste would-be superhero. I'll give a read over what you have up, and take another read through CoCD: Autochthonia.