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  1. - Top - End - #571
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    Here's a challenge....

    Stat up the Zerg from SC2 as Infernal Behemoths.
    They are simpler to make with Raksha charms.

    But here's Zergling:
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    Str 3/Dex 4/Sta 3 Per 2/Int 1/Wit 4/Will 3
    Health Lvls: -0/-1/-1/-2/-4/I
    Atk Claws:(Spd 5/Acc 7/Dmg 6L/Rate 2) Dodge DV 3/Soak 3L/5B(Tough hide 2L/2B +2 Survival rolls)

    Abilities: Athletics 2, Awareness 3, Dodge 2, Martial Arts 2, Presence 2, Resistance 3, Stealth 1, War 3 (Pack Tactics +3);

    Special Qualities: Zerg are engineered to be tough, soaking lethal damage with half of their stamina. They stop bleeding like Exalted and have same healing rate as them. While in contact with creep, Zerglings need no nourishment and count as resting all the time.
    Zergling Frenzy: By spending Willpower point, Zergling can fly into murderous frenzy for a Scene, ignoring wound penalties and automatically passing Valor checks.


    Unconquered Sun forgot to brand Zerg as creatures of darkness, pleas someone mention this to him ?
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    As Primordial Behemoths, I'm pretty sure they qualify automatically.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    And for all those who are interested, while I'm not ready to start game I'm opening to interested parties and letting people look ahead to the setting and some potential adventures.

    In Soviet Kamak, The Exalted serve You!
    I've been trying to find someone to run a game set in Kamak for months. Not sure if PbP suits my needs, but I'll look into it. And if you like, I'll point the rest of my would-be player group towards it as well.
    Last edited by Juhn; 2012-02-28 at 10:26 AM.
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    He's already a bear that turns into a bear that gets so angry it turns into a bear, worships bears, and commands bears, all while riding a bear. He has enough bear.
    There's never enough bear.

  4. - Top - End - #574
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by horngeek View Post
    As Primordial Behemoths, I'm pretty sure they qualify automatically.
    I think it's fun, but doubt that Zerg wouldn't just eat humanity leaving no hosts for Exaltations. And Overmind would be a bother to the Primordials. Converting them is entertaining, though. Here are some more samples.

    Overlord
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    Str 17/Dex 1/Sta 5 Per 5/Int 3/Wit 3/Will 5
    Health Lvls: -0/-0/-0/-0/-1/-1/-1/-1/-2/-2/-4/-4/I
    Atk Tentacles:(Spd 2/Acc 17/Dmg 7B/Rate 4) Dodge DV 1/Soak 4L/7B(Tough hide 2L/2B +2 Survival rolls)

    Abilities: Athletics 1, Awareness 5(Detection +1), Dodge 1, Martial Arts 1, Presence 3, Integrity 5, Resistance 1, War 5 (Coordinating +3);

    Special Qualities: Zerg are engineered to be tough, soaking lethal damage with half of their stamina. They stop bleeding like Exalted and have same healing rate as them. While in contact with creep, Overlord needs no nourishment and count as resting all the time.
    Flight: Overlod have gas bags that let it float above ground clumsily.
    Carrier: Overlord can carry other creatures and objects up to Tyrant Lizard's size in it's.
    Telepathy: Ignores external penalties for Awareness checks, converts dice into successes when coordinating Zerg with less Willpower than itself.


    Creep
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    This hazardous terrain causes damage to non-Zerg with it's acidic secretions and destroys buildings easily. Living beings touching it risk Zerg infection.
    Damage 1L/hour Trauma 2


    Zerg Infection
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    Virulence: 6 Incubation: (Stamina + Resistance) days
    Diagnosis: 5 Treatment (Mundane/Magical): 7/5
    Morbidity: 6 Treated Morbidity: 4
    Symptoms: This infection causes one to lose Willpower dots and Compassion dots, one each day when infected fails morbidity check. Each lost dot is converted into mutation points that ST decides how to manifest. Once Zerg Infection reduces Compassion and Willpower to zero transformation into Zerg is complete. Without treatment the disease is unstoppable.
    Youth and strenght alvays lose to age and treachery.

  5. - Top - End - #575
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    So, looking over overdrive charms, do they give stacking pools? So if a solar had 2 charms that gave him an overdrive pool, he could have 20 offensive motes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wardog View Post
    Rockphed said it well.
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  6. - Top - End - #576
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Rockphed View Post
    So, looking over overdrive charms, do they give stacking pools? So if a solar had 2 charms that gave him an overdrive pool, he could have 20 offensive motes?
    Yup, but the pool caps out at 25 motes.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Volt View Post
    Yup, but the pool caps out at 25 motes.
    And all the methods of filling the pool work on the entire pool.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    2.5 update.
    Quote Originally Posted by hatewheel
    Nothing major happened with the errata over the last two days. We had to iron out some large problems with a book we are writing and it couldn't wait.

    The errata is done in two or three more Charms.
    Quoth the raven, "Polly wants a cracker."

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Hey guys, Revlid and Reminiscent Oasis aren't the only ones making Solar Overdrive charms!
    Last edited by tonberrian; 2012-02-28 at 03:53 PM.
    The name is "tonberrian", even when it begins a sentence. It's magic, I ain't gotta 'splain why.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Enough with the solars: ALCHEMICAL OVERDRIVES NOW, PLEASE!
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Enough with the solars: ALCHEMICAL OVERDRIVES NOW, PLEASE!
    Here you go.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Correction: Good alchemical overdrive. That charm cascade requires way too much investment in submodules to pay off, offers several absolutely unbalancing combinations and way too much to sift through, and just generally seems like a poorly designed set. I'm somewhat partial to the Optimized Overcharge Device myself, but it would be nice to have more options (including one which won't drop your alchemical inside of a minute on its own steam).
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

  13. - Top - End - #583
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Correction: Good alchemical overdrive. That charm cascade requires way too much investment in submodules to pay off, offers several absolutely unbalancing combinations and way too much to sift through, and just generally seems like a poorly designed set. I'm somewhat partial to the Optimized Overcharge Device myself, but it would be nice to have more options (including one which won't drop your alchemical inside of a minute on its own steam).
    Eh, those Alchie overdrive charms were the only ones I knew of.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    So, question-

    Do you guys think it is better to drop XP entirely and convert purely to giving out bonus point rewards instead, or to drop bonus points and use a modified experience system?
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Turalisj View Post
    So, question-

    Do you guys think it is better to drop XP entirely and convert purely to giving out bonus point rewards instead, or to drop bonus points and use a modified experience system?
    Well, if I was going to make any changes to the system, I'd make it so you don't have to min-max Willpower. I know what you're talking about with the having two kinds of points being silly, though. I'd probably drop bonus points entirely but then give an allotment of starting XP depending on how long the characters had been adventuring and such.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Nah, I'd drop XP and give out bonus points. experience is too hard and long to calculate.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    Nah, I'd drop XP and give out bonus points. experience is too hard and long to calculate.
    Bonus points heavily incentivize against an exalt developing his magical talents beyond the minimum though.

    Then again, I feel something the same way about the suggested XP per story. An exalt should be able to buy a new charm every session, IMO.
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    My motto: Repensum Est Canicula.

    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    I am not getting into a shootout with Golentan. Too many gun-arms.
    Leiningen will win, even if he must lose in the attempt.

    Credit to Astrella for the new party avatar.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by golentan View Post
    Bonus points heavily incentivize against an exalt developing his magical talents beyond the minimum though.

    Then again, I feel something the same way about the suggested XP per story. An exalt should be able to buy a new charm every session, IMO.
    For everyone's reference, my sessions tend to run ~8hrs, and I give 8 XP per session, 5 extra for completing an objective, 10 for a Motivation, and 15 for a story arc (plus possible extra depending on the final boss). And I flat out gave my last group 100 XP for the Thorns War timeskip. And I usually give out free backgrounds with story justification. If you want to spontaneously acquire a Mentor 5, you have to pay for it, though.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    My take on the Bonus Points vs XP problem is based around what they really boil down to: Flat Rate Rewards vs Scaling Cost Rewards.

    With Flat Rate, you are encouraged to specialize alot. Since every dot/Charm/whatever costs the same and more is better, you can easily pump a ton into your particular specialty, let your buddies handle the other stuff, and be super awesome. The problem with Flat Rate is that since each additional power builds on previous ones, specializing completely trashes generalizing. Take D&D's skill system for example. One rogue puts points in every skill, even Craft and Profession, because he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. The other maxes Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Use Magic Item, Hide, and Move Silently. Which rogue is more effective? The specialist, by several orders of magnitude. Yet, they paid the same cost for what they did.

    With Scaling Costs, you are encouraged to spread yourself out a little bit. Since grabbing the next dot in Melee will cost you 7 XP, you could instead grab 3 dots in Martial Arts for less. You could get that next dot of Essence, or you could afford to raise your Strength and Stamina by a dot. And so on. Specialists are still ungodly good at their area of expertise, but now they paid through the nose for it. Under a Scaled Cost system, it become harder to get to the high-level uber-cool effects. Also with a Scaled Cost system, rewards come less frequently. Yes, you can get the XP at the same rate, but XP isn't the reward. The reward is being able to do new cool stuff.

    However, Exalted uses a mixed system and so suffers from the problems of both without really getting any of the benefits. Exalted has scaled costs for Attributes, Abilities, Virtues, Essence, and Willpower and flat costs for everything else. The system basically assumes a collaboration of specialists instead of a team of generalists, yet the fluff likes to talk about the Exalted as though they are masters of whatever they try their hand at. People only raise their Abilities and Attributes when required to get more Charms they want.

    What I think would be best for Exalted is to pick a system and stick with it, and personally, I suspect the best system for Exalted to pick would be a flat rate system. Being able to buy a new Charm every session would be fairly nice.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    My take on the Bonus Points vs XP problem is based around what they really boil down to: Flat Rate Rewards vs Scaling Cost Rewards.

    With Flat Rate, you are encouraged to specialize alot. Since every dot/Charm/whatever costs the same and more is better, you can easily pump a ton into your particular specialty, let your buddies handle the other stuff, and be super awesome. The problem with Flat Rate is that since each additional power builds on previous ones, specializing completely trashes generalizing. Take D&D's skill system for example. One rogue puts points in every skill, even Craft and Profession, because he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. The other maxes Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Use Magic Item, Hide, and Move Silently. Which rogue is more effective? The specialist, by several orders of magnitude. Yet, they paid the same cost for what they did.

    With Scaling Costs, you are encouraged to spread yourself out a little bit. Since grabbing the next dot in Melee will cost you 7 XP, you could instead grab 3 dots in Martial Arts for less. You could get that next dot of Essence, or you could afford to raise your Strength and Stamina by a dot. And so on. Specialists are still ungodly good at their area of expertise, but now they paid through the nose for it. Under a Scaled Cost system, it become harder to get to the high-level uber-cool effects. Also with a Scaled Cost system, rewards come less frequently. Yes, you can get the XP at the same rate, but XP isn't the reward. The reward is being able to do new cool stuff.

    However, Exalted uses a mixed system and so suffers from the problems of both without really getting any of the benefits. Exalted has scaled costs for Attributes, Abilities, Virtues, Essence, and Willpower and flat costs for everything else. The system basically assumes a collaboration of specialists instead of a team of generalists, yet the fluff likes to talk about the Exalted as though they are masters of whatever they try their hand at. People only raise their Abilities and Attributes when required to get more Charms they want.

    What I think would be best for Exalted is to pick a system and stick with it, and personally, I suspect the best system for Exalted to pick would be a flat rate system. Being able to buy a new Charm every session would be fairly nice.
    This is probably the best argument I've seen for dropping one system of buying things or the other.
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  21. - Top - End - #591
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    My take on the Bonus Points vs XP problem is based around what they really boil down to: Flat Rate Rewards vs Scaling Cost Rewards.

    With Flat Rate, you are encouraged to specialize alot. Since every dot/Charm/whatever costs the same and more is better, you can easily pump a ton into your particular specialty, let your buddies handle the other stuff, and be super awesome. The problem with Flat Rate is that since each additional power builds on previous ones, specializing completely trashes generalizing. Take D&D's skill system for example. One rogue puts points in every skill, even Craft and Profession, because he wants to be a jack-of-all-trades. The other maxes Spot, Listen, Search, Disable Device, Use Magic Item, Hide, and Move Silently. Which rogue is more effective? The specialist, by several orders of magnitude. Yet, they paid the same cost for what they did.

    With Scaling Costs, you are encouraged to spread yourself out a little bit. Since grabbing the next dot in Melee will cost you 7 XP, you could instead grab 3 dots in Martial Arts for less. You could get that next dot of Essence, or you could afford to raise your Strength and Stamina by a dot. And so on. Specialists are still ungodly good at their area of expertise, but now they paid through the nose for it. Under a Scaled Cost system, it become harder to get to the high-level uber-cool effects. Also with a Scaled Cost system, rewards come less frequently. Yes, you can get the XP at the same rate, but XP isn't the reward. The reward is being able to do new cool stuff.

    However, Exalted uses a mixed system and so suffers from the problems of both without really getting any of the benefits. Exalted has scaled costs for Attributes, Abilities, Virtues, Essence, and Willpower and flat costs for everything else. The system basically assumes a collaboration of specialists instead of a team of generalists, yet the fluff likes to talk about the Exalted as though they are masters of whatever they try their hand at. People only raise their Abilities and Attributes when required to get more Charms they want.

    What I think would be best for Exalted is to pick a system and stick with it, and personally, I suspect the best system for Exalted to pick would be a flat rate system. Being able to buy a new Charm every session would be fairly nice.
    While I approve of approaching the Exalted mechanics - indeed, approaching any mechanics - in this way, there is at least one key detail you appear to have completely neglected, which is that the dots themselves provide diminishing increases compared to what went before. As an example, even though Sorcery uses a Flat Rate system, it is rarely useful to buy more than a handful of flexible effects - it is a system that encourages being a generalist. Additionally, for the Rogue example, looking at the extremes is ridiculous. The most effective rogue is not the one who can do only stealth well, or who can do everything poorly, but the one who is nearly as good at stealth and is also pretty good at opening locks. The idea that there are only two modes to build a character is simply not true.
    For Exalted, the equivalent is that while Melee 5 and Archery 5 are both nice, Melee 3 and Archery 3 is also a perfectly valid example. It's not until one starts getting, say, Melee 1/Martial Arts 1/Archery 1/Thrown 1 that it is outright a bad idea. Charms change this to encourage specialization, of course.

    As for my opinion on the system, I think that the current scaled cost is good in the context of the system - where there are flat costs for the 'cool stuff' so that it's never impossible to advance through it, but scaled for the foundation it rests upon. It is certainly possible for an Exalt with 5+ favored abilities to be an incredible generalist in mortal terms, but there's no incentive as you seem to imply (I may be wrong) to buy the first three dots of martial arts over the fifth dot of Melee - especially if you chose to favor Melee and not Martial Arts! This is because that fifth dot opens up new charms. At the same time, having some dots in each region of abilities can be helpful, to provide assistance to the specialists if nothing else - Co-ordinated attacks, Defend Other, Blockade Movement, battlefield alterations, distractions, and all the assorted tactics more complicated than "Everyone get together and beat on the target" - And if I recall correctly, the upcoming 2.5 errata has made it clear that while combat might not be shorter, it will provide more interesting things to do than to beat on a target over and over.


    As for what changes and overall system should be in place, I think that a slightly scaled cost for character creation, and a flat cost thereafter, is probably best. It ensures that there is good reason to be a generalist, but still allows someone to keep on moving up their specialty without feeling like they're getting slowed down. However, I don't dislike the current system, which uses significantly more flat costs for character creation, so I must admit that I wouldn't change it without a lot more study.
    I do want Willpower to be a little less crazy. Wanting to always have 10 at character creation, and making it so incredibly difficult to raise later compared to its effects and ESPECIALLY compared to its cost at creation? That all is mildly annoying to me.
    Last edited by aetherialDawn; 2012-02-28 at 10:29 PM.
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    People only raise their Abilities and Attributes when required to get more Charms they want.
    In fact, I've never seen a player choose to boost one of his character's Attributes with XP, but then again, that's because in addition to a high XP cost, it also takes months and months to raise them by one dot.
    It is inevitable, of course, that persons of epicurean refinement will in the course of eternity engage in dealings with those of... unsavory character. Record well any transactions made, and repay all favors promptly.. (Thanks to Gnomish Wanderer for the Toreador avatar! )

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCountAlucard View Post
    In fact, I've never seen a player choose to boost one of his character's Attributes with XP, but then again, that's because in addition to a high XP cost, it also takes months and months to raise them by one dot.
    Of course it takes months and months. Do you know how difficult it is to smile so hard that your physical appearance just becomes permanently better in every way to everyone?

    You have to be careful with that stuff. One wrong smirk and you could accidentally vomit your tongue out through your belly button.

    (I have no idea how the Appearance stat works.)

    edit: Good god my new wallpaper.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Xefas View Post
    Of course it takes months and months. Do you know how difficult it is to smile so hard that your physical appearance just becomes permanently better in every way to everyone?

    You have to be careful with that stuff. One wrong smirk and you could accidentally vomit your tongue out through your belly button.

    (I have no idea how the Appearance stat works.)
    First, as far as Appearance goes, I much prefer Scion's method- it's not how good you look, necessarily, as how much skill you have at getting the point across non-verbally. Stuff like looking threatening.

    Second, I will note that Attributes have much wider appliations.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Revlid View Post
    And so it was that Zaeed, Aang, Winry, Ezio, Sadoko and Snow White all set out on their epic journey to destroy The Empire.

    God I love Exalted.


    Gold Dragon avatar by Serpentine


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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    This is why my rewrite of Exalted's rules is ditching Appearance and adopting Composure instead.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyeudo View Post
    This is why my rewrite of Exalted's rules is ditching Appearance and adopting Composure instead.
    Re-he-heally... Any plans for how to deal with the imbalance favoring Dexterity or Mass Combat? I've been working on my own rework, but these things get tedious and overwhelming on one's own.

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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Well, I don't have any good answers for the dominance of Dexterity without doing something like D&D does and moving attack rolls to Strength instead, but you could say that I've had a few thoughts about Mass Combat.

  28. - Top - End - #598
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Well, not quite sure how to do Str vs Dex in a balanced manner, but I figure that given that Essence gets added to Dodge, Parry could use something to balance that out. Weapon Defense can go either way, so perhaps an edge in flexibility: You can use either Dexterity or Stamina for the PDV Attribute, with the former representing deflecting an attack to one side while the latter represents blocking the attack directly.

  29. - Top - End - #599
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

    Gentlemen! I come to you in search of ideas!

    My group of Solar players has set its next objective : the Nacre Whirlpool. Indeed, those fine gentlemen are slowly taking over Coral, and they are launching a mercenary operation on the Whirlpool as part of a plan to get two of them recruited by the military. So they've recruited mercenary troups (counting one of the Solars' Followers and the troups they enrolled, there will be around 170 armed men, and 5 Solars, two Dawns, two Zenith, one Eclipse), enrolled sailors to provide transport, and obtained the necessary administrative authorizations relative to transporting so many armed persons in Coral Territory.

    And here comes my problem : I don't have any idea what to do with this. Fair Folk is one of the rare things I didn't research yet because I didn't expect them to come up so soon. The Nacre Whirlpool is alluded to in CoTD : The West, but there is no details about it. And more importantly, I don't know how to manage Fair Folk themselves. I'll read the Corebook chapter about faes again, but that won't be enough.

    So basically, is there any information out there about the Nacre Whirlpool that I might have missed? Do you have any idea how I could make this more interresting? And finally, what do you recommand when it comes to managing Fair Folk NPCs?
    Last edited by HerrTenko; 2012-02-29 at 01:29 AM.

  30. - Top - End - #600
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

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