General Exalted Discussion Thread IX: Errata is Combo-Ok!

[aetherialDawn]

For Fair Folk NPCs, decide on the story or theme the Nacre Whirlpool will tell. This is really, really important for Raksha charms - they're more like enablers for fluff than anything else, as far as I can see. A good place to start is: What fictional character would the Raksha here want as a leader? if you're having trouble.

Convey this to Meschlum, as best you can. He will probably tell you how to do the whole thing with one Raksha, and perhaps a few mortals for setup purposes.

[horngeek]

Hmmm... here's an idea for an Excellency.

The Shining Knight is honorable, keeping to rules of conflict and refraining from underhanded attacks. He does not define these rules, but does enforce them. He demands fealty from those he has defeated, whether in the realm of physical combat or social, and does not kill wastefully. Unlike Malfeas, his right to rule those he has defeated resides in the honorable victory, and not his might.

This Excellency may be used to enhance actions that follow or enforce a code of honor (Design Question: This is rather vague as it stands- any ideas on how to narrow it down acceptably?). While it cannot be used to change society's values as a whole, it may be used to bring a smaller subset of a society in line with the larger group or to rule in accordance with society's pre-existing laws, especially over those he has proven himself against. As a curiosity of the Shining Knight, this Excellency may always be used to create art.

So, what do you guys think?

[Lix Lorn]

InB4Meschlum

Convey this to Meschlum, as best you can. He will probably tell you how to do the whole thing with one Raksha, and perhaps a few mortals for setup purposes.

Lol.

Hmmm... here's an idea for an Excellency.

The Shining Knight is honorable, keeping to rules of conflict and refraining from underhanded attacks. He does not define these rules, but does enforce them. He demands fealty from those he has defeated, whether in the realm of physical combat or social, and does not kill wastefully. Unlike Malfeas, his right to rule those he has defeated resides in the honorable victory, and not his might.

This Excellency may be used to enhance actions that follow or enforce a code of honor (Design Question: This is rather vague as it stands- any ideas on how to narrow it down acceptably?). While it cannot be used to change society's values as a whole, it may be used to bring a smaller subset of a society in line with the larger group or to rule in accordance with society's pre-existing laws, especially over those he has proven himself against. As a curiosity of the Shining Knight, this Excellency may always be used to create art.

So, what do you guys think?

Seems a little narrow. Especially considering how exalted were MADE to change society by taking out the top layer.

So how would you make this? Swillin favoured Slayer? Or is it a lost primordial or some other non DT?

[Gensh]

Seems a little narrow. Especially considering how exalted were MADE to change society by taking out the top layer.

So how would you make this? Swillin favoured Slayer? Or is it a lost primordial or some other non DT?

I'll agree with this. Picking the Primordial parents is very important for the character's development - after all, look at everything Sol has done. One thing that would help tremendously (that incidentally, I didn't do) would be to write down all the themes you want the character to espouse before you even consider wording for the Excellency. As of now, the only thing I'm taking out of the Shining Knight Excellency is "honorable knight," and the knight part only comes from the name. Another thing is that I'd get rid of the comparison to Malfeas - that would belong more in an Urge description or something - I can't recall where but Malfeas and Cecelyne's Excellencies were called out as good examples.

[tonberrian]

Hey guys, guess what! Hatewheel updated the first post of the 2.5 thread over at White Wolf. But I'll also put the relevant bit here:

Update 2/29/12 PM 3:23 - Leap Year

The errata is finished. We are compiling the documents and doing a final review. The document will be sent off to Plague of Hats within the next 24 hours.

[Weimann]

Okay, so PoH will get the errata within 24 hours. Then he'll need, according to his own estimates, 12-24 hours to compile it. Once that's done, we still won't get it until DriveThruRPG uploads the new version to their site. Given the estimates above, there's a risk that they won't recieve it until late Friday or Saturday, making the actual release date Monday.

I hope we can dodge the weekend, at least.

[tonberrian]

Okay, so PoH will get the errata within 24 hours. Then he'll need, according to his own estimates, 12-24 hours to compile it. Once that's done, we still won't get it until DriveThruRPG uploads the new version to their site. Given the estimates above, there's a risk that they won't recieve it until late Friday or Saturday, making the actual release date Monday.

I hope we can dodge the weekend, at least.

Me, I don't care.

IT IS IMMINENT.

[Turalisj]

Me, I don't care.

IT IS IMMINENT.

No it isn't. It won't come out until probably next week.

[Weimann]

I'll admit, compared to how long Sidereals have been waiting for it, it is imminent.

Doesn't mean I'm not muttering over the couple of days between now and then, though.

[KaganMonk]

Now see, that's the problem with the use of the word imminent about this project. The extremely patient people say "Within two weeks? Errata is imminent!" While those with a much shorter view of the word then argue back "What are you talking about?!? It's not coming out in the next 12 hours!" Sadly all misunderstandings from using a slightly ambiguous word.

[Weimann]

The latest developments suggest that Plague of hats has already received the material.

Let me tell you a story, forum:

Plague of Hats: It's my off-est of days off. Just lazing around.

Holden: awesome

Holden: Then what you need is some SOUL-CRUSHING GRUNT WORK

Plague of Hats: God yes.

You have successfully received Sidereal Errata - Edits final.rtf from Holden

--

I am perhaps oddly excited to show you guys the new Predestined Delivery Shaping.

This alleviates my worry that we'll have to wait over the weekend.

Edit: Also, if you still lack Masters of Jade, check this thread out.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Will 2.5 cost money, or will it just be a new version of the SoE?

[Weimann]

The latter. Once DriveThruRPG has updated, you can get it all in the Scroll of Errata for free as normal.

I wonder how much longer the scroll will become? It's currently 160 pages.

[golentan]

Yay, a whole bunch of new rules to learn right at the startup of my new game.

I actually am enthused, but also kind of nervous.

[Weimann]

Please consider posting your experiences with the new system on the White Weolf forum. I know that hatewheel has asked for feedback from actual play to stresstest it in bulk. Kind of like an open beta, I guess.

[Xefas]

I can already tell you what my experiences with the new system are going to be.

"=|

=|

=(

Weimann is the only man who ever satisfied me...

Exaltedly, I mean."

Good times.

[TheCountAlucard]

Please consider posting your experiences with the new system on the White Wolf forum.

That's been my intention since I'd heard there was going to be errata.

[golentan]

So, how do you guys think dragonbloods would get on in Autochthonia? I don't mean dynasts moving in to conquer/emigrate, I mean if Autokun had accidentally swept up a couple terrestrials and they had established a population. What would their role in society be (pariahs, citizens, or leaders)? Do you think they might adapt to autochthonian elements (Air->Steam, Earth->Metal, Fire->Lightning, Water->Oil, Wood->Crystal would be my guess)?

Note this is not for the game I'm running.

[Kyeudo]

Dragon-Blooded don't adapt, so they would still use Creation's elements. They'd probably be on top of society, because the Alchemical Exalted are only able to be forced to their position in society by constantly needing refitting while unconcious and vulnerable. If Alchemicals didn't need mortals to keep them maintained, Alchemicals would probably be running the place. Dragon-Blooded don't need mortals like Alchemicals do, nor do they turn into cities, so they would be free to use their Charms to dominate Autochthonian society.

[golentan]

I don't know that dragonblood don't adapt. I've read a couple references to tainted bloodlines as a result of demon experimentation producing dragonblooded with a curious affinity for vitriol and some demonic traits, and then there are the Dragons of a Different Color use the Underworld Elements. I think that exposed to autochthonian essence and possibly getting genetic infusions from autochthonian elementals over enough generations might result in some mechanical dragons.

The rest meshes well with one of the scenarios I was thinking of.

[meschlum]

Gentlemen! I come to you in search of ideas!

My group of Solar players has set its next objective : the Nacre Whirlpool. Indeed, those fine gentlemen are slowly taking over Coral, and they are launching a mercenary operation on the Whirlpool as part of a plan to get two of them recruited by the military. So they've recruited mercenary troups (counting one of the Solars' Followers and the troups they enrolled, there will be around 170 armed men, and 5 Solars, two Dawns, two Zenith, one Eclipse), enrolled sailors to provide transport, and obtained the necessary administrative authorizations relative to transporting so many armed persons in Coral Territory.

And here comes my problem : I don't have any idea what to do with this. Fair Folk is one of the rare things I didn't research yet because I didn't expect them to come up so soon. The Nacre Whirlpool is alluded to in CoTD : The West, but there is no details about it. And more importantly, I don't know how to manage Fair Folk themselves. I'll read the Corebook chapter about faes again, but that won't be enough.

So basically, is there any information out there about the Nacre Whirlpool that I might have missed? Do you have any idea how I could make this more interresting? And finally, what do you recommand when it comes to managing Fair Folk NPCs?

There is a section on the Whirlpool in CoCD: The Wyld. Basically, it's difficult and dangerous to reach, and the local Raksha are extremely lazy and claim everything that falls in. Various factions are unhappy with the current situation, of course.

But that's just background.

Fair Folk can be as terrifying as you want them to be, it's all a matter of themes, preparation, and planning. On the Fair Folk's part, sadly - at least, if dealing with Celestial Exalts. Don't try for optimal play, as that gets you deep in paranoia combat and option paralysis, or auto-win buttons. On either side.

Meh. That's just crunch.

The Whirlpool's Mouth

The Whirlpool is not sentient, per se. At least, not in the ways that Creation-born would understand. It is hungry, however, and can be directed by the dedicated efforts of the Fair Folk. Unfortunately for those ships that come near the nacreous waves, the Raksha therein are by and large somnolent beings, rarely willing to trouble themselves with the saving of mere mortals or their ships.

When the Mouth reaches out to feed, its presence is felt as a Wyld taint, turning all water nearby pale white - hence the name given to the land. Currents build up, shredding most vessels, for only those threading the proper path can remain free of the altered fluid and threats within. Should a wise captain offer up a mortal soul or more to the waters, the Mouth will retreat, temporarily sated, and a skilled Raksha pilot might bestir itself to lead the vessel to safety during the lull. Or not, as the whims of the Fair Folk dictate.

3-dot Behemoth
Assumption of the City's Heart - the Mouth is incalculably large from the merely human perspective.
Assumption of Water Form - its awareness infuses the water within its domain.
Assumption of Kraken Form - massive tentacles and malign eyes flicker throughout the Whirlpool.
Endless Yawning Void - affected liquids become dangerous to the touch, filled with savage currents that inflict damage to anything they can reach.
Knife Hand Dream - against more resilient ships or swimmers, the Mouth can deliver potent blows composed of pure destructive force, carried by a shell of nacreous water. These wild currents have been known to slice through the magical materials.
Surpassing Excellence - the Mouth is unnaturally aware of any ships passing in its vicinity
Racing Dragon Speed - though it is generally fixed, parts of the Mouth can move with unnatural quickness.

The Mouth is linked to a Principle of Worlds territory, in which ships of all sorts are by definition more fragile. This effect is assisted by Translucent Dream Sheathing Technology, creating a Shaping effect whereby it is possible to break any ship, and granting a few bonus and penalty dice when doing so.


Flower of Delightful Repose

The sunken city at the bottom of the Whirlpool is entirely under water, an environment congenial to the Raksha and denizens of the deep but less so to the mortals they prey upon. Thus, a few Flowers were planted, converting Creation-born hopes and dreams into temporary safety. So long as the Raksha's captives return to the Flowers regularly, and follow the dictates of the Fair Folk, they gain the ability to subsist below the waves.

Cruelly, the power of the Flowers will permanently render mortals incapable of breathing water normally, if they belong to the shaped races granted gills in earlier Ages - for the Raksha seek helpless captives, not partners.

While the Flowers subsist on a diet of disturbed dreams and dull obedience, they wither at the end of a season, and must thus be tended by Fair Folk gardeners. When the time comes for a Flower to die, its warden will seek out a willful captive, bury him in the coral beneath the city until only his head is visible, and plant a new Flower over him. This mortal 'root' will supply the fresh plant with the dreams and life force it needs to grow, sustaining its victim until its time comes.

1-dot Oneiromancy
Assumption of Wood Form - the Flower is a great, lily-like plant that exudes a pale yellow fluid into the water around it.
Behemoth Forging Meditation - any mortals that are touched by the Flower's secretions will eventually become air-breathers.
Mer-horse Transformation - simultaneously, the Flower's byproducts grant gills to those who breathe them in, though these will fade after a day or two. Or earlier in areas with strong currents...
Heart Stealing Kiss - the liquid pollen of the Flowers dissolves the will of those who spend too much time in contact with it.


Pearl Heart

The drowned city at the base of the Nacreous Whirlpool is the product of coincidence and mockery, a former home of the Creation-born that the Raksha have made their own. For one of their deeper secrets is that the Whirlpool is not truly native to this region of the West, and was simply planted where it now lies at some forgotten point in the past.

Why the Fair Folk sought to lay claim to this particular ruin is not known. Perhaps the first invaders found what they desired, and left a colony instead. Or perhaps they are still looking. Wherever that truth may lie, the tale of the Pearl Heart is not concerned with such matters. It is, instead, the true source and fountainhead of the Whirlpool's power.

Somewhere in the Raksha's palace, there is a room filled with treasures claimed from far and wide. One of those treasures is a large pearl, perhaps a foot across - its perfect nacreous surface marred by a strange dark pattern that never seems the same twice. If a curious investigator cares to trace the pattern until it forms a loop around the pearl, it will seem to grow - or the explorer will appear to shrink - and absorb the one meddling with it.

Within the Pearl Heart is a far more glorious city, and underwater realms so wild and alien they could only belong in the furthest western marches of Creation. The people there are in all ways better, brighter somehow than the pale beings of Creation - though their laws are arbitrary and their kindness full of teeth.

The Raksha of the Whirlpool access the Heart by other means, in a ritual room where they welcome their most potent visitors - when this chamber's waters are tinged red with spilled blood, the outskirts of the city appear and can be entered. Once, this method was used to trap a most dangerous invader, who might still be wandering the weird lands of the Pearl Heart.

What few know and the Fair Folk only suspect is that the Pearl Heart is more than a freehold of the Wyld - and is in fact sentient, an Unshaped captured and contained within a twist of space and thought beyond the imagining of mortal sorcerors. Who was responsible for this, and the means by which the Heart's contents might be released upon Creation, is not known. All that is certain is that this entity provides considerable supernatural might to the beings of the Whirlpool, ever ready to sustain the undersea Raksha for seemingly unimportant prices - in slaves, in ancient relics, and in secrets.

3-dot Chancel
Actually has at least two other entrances not described above, and really is a source of more or less unlimited power, due to the way Unshaped work. Its main, real, role is to serve as a plot device, justification for any appropriate level of defense, and reason for other parties to want to take over the place.


Now, as mentioned before, if you have a notion of what you want your Fair Folk to do, as individuals or a whole, we can get down to details. Otherwise, I hope the above contribute some inspiration!

[HerrTenko]

You sir are the most wonderful person ever.
Thanks for this, I think I still need to think about it a bit but it really helps a lot!

Also, I really lack sleep now, so it's not easy to think straight, but once I get some sleep I'll start thinking about what story I want these Raksha to tell and who they exactly are.

[Draken]

The elements of the underworld don't really exist, the necromantic dragonblooded have some affinity for death essence and it manifests in an appropriate manner, but they still use the default elements of creation.

If Autochthon had taken some dragonblood bloodlines with him, it is very likely that he would (and he probably could) reengineer the dragonbloods to align to his own elements as a means of better adaptation.

Without the sidereals spurring them, dragonblooded are indocrinated to serve celestial exalted, and alchemicals are celestials. It likely wouldn't take more than a few generations for the mechanisms of autochthonian society as we know it (Exalts serve the state, not the other way around - Don't forget that Lux tried to take control of the nation and ultimately just didn't do a good job of it, so he gave most of the power back).

I mean, alchemicals don't really need mortals or vats if they just sacrifice one charm slot for the protocol weaving engine. Its not that necessity that drives them to serve, it is cultural and maybe built-in as well. Same could be said of dragonblooded.

[Weimann]

Weimann is the only man who ever satisfied me...

You say the sweetest things. *cuddles* I wish I had been a good enough ST to continue that game. It was really funny, but it slipped out of my hands. I think I need to be a player a few times before I attempt STing again.

My interest in Exalted is largely academical in any case. However, from the looks of it, the writers seem to attempt to simplify and abstract the system compared to previously, so I'd not judge in advance.

[Kyeudo]

I mean, alchemicals don't really need mortals or vats if they just sacrifice one charm slot for the protocol weaving engine. Its not that necessity that drives them to serve, it is cultural and maybe built-in as well. Same could be said of dragonblooded.

Try raising Essence or Attributes as an Alchemical - you know, those things that are the prerequisites for all those new Charms you want - without having mortals around to do it for you. That is how mortals can force any Alchemicals who would like to be rulers to change their minds.

Dragon-Blooded? They may be conditioned to serve the Celestials, but that doesn't mean they are conditioned to serve mortals and there is no leverage to exploit against a Dragon-Blooded. Just a Dragon-Blooded's anima power can kill hundreds of mortals if he wants to use it as a weapon.

[golentan]

Yep, and by the time they've raised their essence and attributes to the point that isn't a concern, they've become immobile and started to lose interest in petty concerns like power over mortals.

Mostly. Loran still gets around, and I don't like the idea that cities should sit back and basically become essence reactors for charms built and entirely run by mortals (they're exalted, even inhuman and twisted beyond recognition they are mighty heroes with mighty desires and influence on the world beyond just being a giant Manse N/A equivalent). But still.

[Lord Raziere]

Try raising Essence or Attributes as an Alchemical - you know, those things that are the prerequisites for all those new Charms you want - without having mortals around to do it for you. That is how mortals can force any Alchemicals who would like to be rulers to change their minds.

nonsense, your just not thinking long term enough.

build up your charm slots until you don't need to change them out, get to like Essence 7 and be a Colossus, now look at the puny mortals whom you have stringed along and conned for years upon years.
Then declare yourself ruler. You already have the charms you need after all…

in short: just do the taking over thing after you have gotten all the stuff from them that you want. now start designing those magitech slave collars, and your golden. pun not intended.
not that I advise such a course of action, I'm just saying thats possible.

what I'd advise is that since Autocthonia is populated by 999 other Alchemicals who don't particularly agree with what you've done still serving the mortals, is that you find somewhere isolated to set yourself up, then slowly starting building up your empire.
or be an Adamant Caste villain who wants to take over all of Autocthonia from the Core and purge it of robo-cancer before manipulating/commanding the Eight Nations to open the Seal and conquer Creation. all based upon the belief that the Maker should be pure, and that all should share in the Maker's purity…..but thats just one of my characters.

[Draken]

Ah, true enough. The protocol only trades charms around.

Still, Voidbringers show that the alchemicals don't have to be subservient either. They (not necessarily apostates by this point of the talk) can take over and bully/UMI mortals into obedience just like any other exalt can.

[horngeek]

Basically, the Dragon-Born probably wouldn't take over because Autocthon would probably modify them in some way so they couldn't and because of cultural values.

[Kyeudo]

Still, Voidbringers show that the alchemicals don't have to be subservient either. They (not necessarily apostates by this point of the talk) can take over and bully/UMI mortals into obedience just like any other exalt can.

Void Lords have several options, one of which is Transorganic Desecration Cyst (the "I am a normal Exalt" Charm), another is those Blightborn that basically live to service Void Lords. Also yes, if you can convince mortals that doing anything to harm your Alchemical master would result in their death, you might be able keep them from killing you. However, all it takes is one of your technicians to decide to remove your soulgem and take a hammer to it and you are dead.